Let's talk about this Cloud Computing business

[John Phoenix]

I had never heard the term referring to the internet as "The Cloud' till Microsoft came out with the new tv commercials. What Microsoft has to do with it, I still don't know. In general I understand "cloud computing" is a way of using internet software as services.

We have been doing this since the popularity of the World Wide Web started growing 15 years ago. AIM, Skype, IRC ect. Nothing is new nothing has changed. I say this is just a marketing ploy to make old services seem new. As W.C Fields once said, " There is a sucker born every minute".

You can find lots of info about this "cloud" by doing a simple google search: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+does+cloud+based+mean?

I say be different not a follower of the crowd. See this cloud business for the cheap scam it is and don't buy into giving power to these scammers by using this silly phrase. That's just my take on it.

What do you think about all this Cloud stuff?

 

[Frick]

YOu've never heard of it before? It's all the rage, Microsoft just have some services. And it's more than what was before: Think about online Office packages, Google Apps, Amazon Web Services.. The list goes on.

But you've never heard of it until now? No offence, but you're not very active on the internet or in the computer bussiness in general.

 

[digibucc]

they are not referring to the internet in general as the cloud, but rather having servers online that save all of your information remotely, and serve apps as frick said.

the net is still the net, it contains the cloud. let's go huntin

 

[DanishDevil]

I think the commercials give people not privy to technology (read: older people) a term that they can use day to day and seem cool (since geek is the new emo) and also gives them an analogy that they can understand. It's not all marketing bollocks, actually a pretty clever way to name it. Microsoft didn't invent it by any way shape or form, but they are pushing Windows Live, and decided to use the term.

I don't think cloud computing will replace my day to day activities (read: using Word through a browser rather than an installed copy on my machine) but it's certainly nice to have when I'm not with one of my rigs!

 

[DRDNA]

Cloud computing thats being hyped now is more of a server that MS runs that does the work for you instead of the users PC doing all the work..It is then streamed to the user.

 

[HalfAHertz]

It does all seem like we're going in circles: back to the thin(dumb) clients a.k.a. the terminals but it is supposed to be more secure - nothin is installed locally, everything is ran on the server side and thus harder to exploit and at the same time always updated to the latest version. Your data is "safe" when in the cloud as well because it is being backed up regularly...

 

[John Phoenix]

I am very active on the net I just don't do computer related business on the net or run in the circles of people who use such terms.

The more server side apps that contain more information there are it seems to me the more serious risk of identity theft thus this cloud is a bad thing indeed. How do you police all this security related stuff? You have to trust the service owner not to abuse your information and that they have good enough security to keep hackers out. I don't see how promoting server side services as the best new thing since sliced bread is a good thing. It can mislead people into thinking their information is secure.


I use a few like IRC, Skype but I never use real info. I always use a web based email to sign up for those services, nothing linking back to my ISP's email. I never send personal information over these services. Everyone needs to understand they need to become someone else when on the net. Not all people are comfortable doing this- that's what this cloud computing thing doesn't stress the way it's advertised.

I will never use a service such as the ones you use to backup your hard drive to an online server. To me this is the stupidest thing anyone can do with their data.

Lets say you want to steal/copy tons of games or movies - just start an online backup or sharing service like rapidshare or megaupload. The people who work for those companies can have anything they want.

 

[erixx]

yes, "the cloud".... means that "your" data is somewhere..... somewhere floating in clouds somewhere you really don't know.... Remember Usenet? That was the first cloud, because you could download old messages again and again.... I spend years living there My posts, it is all partly gone now, but universities, NGO's or even Google keep copies.... until they want/can. time to build our own home-servers and stuff the 'clouds' in them

 

[PVTCaboose1337]

If security issues can be resolved, I will be a fan of the cloud. To quote myself from another thread:

Yeah again, the cloud is a clever idea. We are moving away from privacy concerns to "my whole life was lost" concerns. People at this point in time are switching their lives to technology. If their hard drive crashes, so does part of their life. Imagine in 10 years. You have family photos, videos, medical records, everything electronic. Now imagine we had no cloud, and a hard drive fails. You are fucked, your life is a mess. With the cloud, even if 1 drive goes down, 100 more back up your stuff. There is no way for you to lose info. The cloud is the future, privacy is not. Expect eye scanners or something similar for access to the cloud so people cannot hack your data.

 

[Frick]

Well it's the same thing with banks isn't it? Why should you keep your moneys there, people can rob it? And what about storing data at home, your home can burn and thieves can steal that as well, probably a lot easier than steal anything located on secure servers. It's the same with anything really.

I use a few like IRC, Skype but I never use real info. I always use a web based email to sign up for those services, nothing linking back to my ISP's email. I never send personal information over these services. Everyone needs to understand they need to become someone else when on the net. Not all people are comfortable doing this- that's what this cloud computing thing doesn't stress the way it's advertised.

Maybe not, maybe we have to see information in a different way we do now. Unless you use proxys for everything people still have your IP number. Facebook, for instance, have changed how we use the internet entirely, and for many people total openness is the norm. That is the way of the future imo: You are who you are, everywhere and everywhen. Even online.

And this cloud thing is really good for some things. Need computing power overnight, not enough to invest in hardware? Rent some online! Have a small business with need for some tech but not enough money or knowledge? Rent it online! So for some users it's REALLY good, but not for all. I think that in the future we all have thin clients and we rent space and power from big corporations. It's good and bad.

yes, "the cloud".... means that "your" data is somewhere..... somewhere floating in clouds somewhere you really don't know....

As is everything.

And I still think you've missed a lot. This cloud thing has been around for years.

 

[freaksavior]

I always thought it was marketing bs. It's basically an online storage solution, it is really no different than a hosting service from a company like hostgator.com for example.

 

[John Phoenix]

Frick, what makes you think these servers are so called secure - just because people call them secure servers? I don't know about this.. you never hear about Johnny's Pc getting hacked, always servers.

I don't use banks. I pay cash for everything. I have bought houses, cars and boats as well as everything inside them with cash. Never trusted banks. Banks are designed just like casino's. Banks are there to make money for the bank. Sure checking is free sometimes but most times you still have to pay for the checks. You make interest on money in the bank, but over the years unless you have multi millions of dollars in a bank, the bank makes more money off of you in other fees.

What computing power are you talking about that you can get cheaper online? I can get a 1 TB drive for 50 U.S. dollars. I agree that for non tech people some services may be good but everyone needs to have the ability and money (for storage disks) to do the basics of backing up and restoring data from the time they first get their computers. Give me better examples of some of these uses you are talking about so I will understand where the differences lie.

 

[Frick]

What computing power are you talking about that you can get cheaper online? I can get a 1 TB drive for 50 U.S. dollars. I agree that for non tech people some services may be good but everyone needs to have the ability and money (for storage disks) to do the basics of backing up and restoring data from the time they first get their computers. Give me better examples of some of these uses you are talking about so I will understand where the differences lie.

I said computing power. As in CPU horsepower. You can rent that as well you know.

An example with my brother:

He have a small business. He wants a home page and mail with a domain name. Either he can buy a domain name and set up servers for mail and the site and some light backup, wich would be pretty costly to begin with, and the only internet he can get is 2MB/s ADSL. He does not have much knowledge so he would have to spend hours and hours on research. Or he can contact a serious company that provide everything of that for about €90/year. He does not have to worry about anything, he just uses the services.

The rest of your post I cannot reply to as I just don't agree with you.

 

[HalfAHertz]

Exactly this service is aimed at the average consumer / business which usually means no to very limited computer skills

 

[W1zzard]

cloud is a cool new invention to make the company offering cloud services more money.

get normal servers which you could sell to only 1 client before, slap on a virtualization solution and suddenly you have 30 clients on that 1 box, charge more than the 1 box price because it's "cloud" * 30 = +instawin$$

 

[erocker]

My ©ThunderCloud will be so fast that everyone will want to use it. Fast being a subjective term, but ThunderCloud© sounds cool and people will want to use it.

 

[John Phoenix]

O.k. a website and domain name for a small business I can understand, but to me this does not constitute use of "A cloud" the way the term is being bounced around today.

As in the Microsoft commercials the term is used as the new hot place for all non tech people to go to for all of their tech needs. I think this is misleading.

I'd still like to know why you think the servers are so secure.

 

[DRDNA]

O.k. a website and domain name for a small business I can understand, but to me this does not constitute use of "A cloud" the way the term is being bounced around today.

As in the Microsoft commercials the term is used as the new hot place for all non tech people to go to for all of their tech needs. I think this is misleading.

I'd still like to know why you think the servers are so secure.

Its more than servers and storage and security..it is also CPU power..it means no longer having to buy a PC every two years to keep up...There are a lot of things that are in the cloud besides storage.

 

[erixx]

1) Great to read you w1zzard, and as usual setting things straight!
Yes: it is all about money. 80% of new products are not invented because WE need them, but because the manufacturer has to keep on selling. Just think in the 'mouse' or 'gaming keyboard' 'headphones' business: its F...ing ridiculous... There are 'brazilions', lol, of people thinking all day how to make money easily.

2) To John: just in case, as I understand 'cloud' computing: cloud means (relatively) independent of location and hardware, it offers access to your stuff anywhere and with any (read: some) devices, like phones, thin clients, home or work, or from cybercafes etc.., of course, using a 'universal' (read relatively widespread) interface, that is ... a webbrowser. Think about google docs and you will get it.

3) thieves, fires, etc., that danger exists, but i have had no thieves and no fire in 20 years at this place, but heard MUCHO about privacy fraud and password robbery at the 'big ones', like google, Aol, hotmail, Fb, etc... And smaller companies can 'evaporate'... Not sure, but a hidden power surge or wifi networked set of harddrives at home seems quite save. I am open for the final solution, because as someone said: it is most of our lives that we store nowadays.

 

[Steevo]

I have a 30 day unlimited dev pass for Azure. I just don't know the hardware they are willing to let a 1024 key crack program run on for 30 days and if it will be worth it. Or I could fold at home, on MS hardware for a month.

 

[Steevo]

If you have a small business that needs a server to allow access for 5 people to a piece of software, and the utilization of the hardware will only be 10 CPU hours per week, it is cheaper to rent a cloud server, or virtual server than to buy a server, the OS, the software, the support, replace it every 5 years.

 

[John Phoenix]

I understand the need to use an online service. I think the issue is more is the idea behind "a cloud" a mere marketing gimmick or is it something more substantial. I still see nothing that makes "cloud computing" something new or worth a fancy catch phrase.

Everything that you guys mentioned above is still the same old services we have always had. Even if you consider a cloud a set of bundled services by a certain company there is still nothing new here that makes this cloud business anything new and deserving of it's hype.

Call a spade a spade. Don't call it a cloud. call it online services.

 

[slyfox2151]

in what way have we always had a cloud with CPU offloading over the internet?

 

[Disparia]

I hear ya John. Cloud is what you get after marketing takes what us techs have been doing forever and packages it as a cute term. Not that they had to think very hard about it... the Internet has been represented as a cloud in Visio as long as I can remember.

 

[Frick]

in what way have we always had a cloud with CPU offloading over the internet?

This. I thing you can rent pure CPU power from Amazon.

Also you have things like Sumo Paint, Office 365, Google Apps and so on, all of them are things you normally would have on your own machine, but now they are applications that you run in your browser. Pretty different from before. Some of these things are old (like renting servers is way old), but some things are pretty new.

I do agree on that it's becoming a gimmick though. Companies throw it around because it's a buzz word.

And on security: Serious companies have standards and protocols they follow, and they let you look at them, usually. THe serious ones let you know how they take care of your data, anything else would be bad business. We might see things differently, but to me online backups actually is cheaper than a harddrive in my closet. My apartment can burn, I live with a bunch of alcoholics and drug abusers nearby so they can break in and steal it, I can accidentally drop the disk killing it. Most of the things on my drives are not very important, but some small text files mean the world to me so I have them online as well.