The TPU UK Clubhouse

[os2wiz]

All very heavy but politics where man is concerned is nothing but a guise. We're heavily evolved apes with the same backwards animalistic tendencies built in. We are violent, territorial creatures that have developed a great sense of empathy with others. In short we are chaotic and unpredictable. We are also very prone to egotistical pomposity.

Existence beyond God is chaos and chance. Politics cannot tame that. We muddle by trying to find reason and explain ourselves through abstraction when in reality we are just highly intelligent animals.

The only real system that befits humanity is egalitarian anarchy. But that is impossible.

Just my two cents.

Anyway, who's buying a GTX 780 Lightning?

If there is a god, god is chaos.

 

[the54thvoid]

If there is a god, god is chaos.

Yeah the God reference was to imply those with faith in any supreme being have a predetermined existence. Without God, there is no such thing, except universal entropy. Everything belongs to chaos.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Is it strange that while taking a bus around central london I tend to think of it as a glorified C-130 and a little voice in my head shouts "CLEAR THE RAMP!" & "PREPARE TO JUMP!" before the bus stops and I make my exit?

First voice is from that guy in the landing craft during the Omaha beach scene in saving private ryan - the second quote is from band of brothers when the troops para-jump into occupied normandy.

 

[d1nky]

It is strange.........

fixed

 

[os2wiz]

This is the main problem. The leaders of any communist party always seem to "need" more than others. Which is why I cannot support communism.

By the way back when That Thatcher b...ch ruled Britain for the bosses and crushed the unions, we in the US raised tens of thousands in support of the Kent coal miners. We even had a support committee and flew a couple of miners over here to do a speaking tour across the States to explain the issues of the strike. One of our comrades was from Britain and he had gone over there during the strike to build ties with the strikers. Many of us still have friendships with some of those blokes to this very day.

 

[Tatty_Two]

By the way back when That Thatcher b...ch ruled Britain for the bosses and crushed the unions, we in the US raised tens of thousands in support of the Kent coal miners. We even had a support committee and flew a couple of miners over here to do a speaking tour across the States to explain the issues of the strike. One of our comrades was from Britain and he had gone over there during the strike to build ties with the strikers. Many of us still have friendships with some of those blokes to this very day.

Perspectives...... I have been anti Thatcher pretty much all my adult life, however the coal mines were leaking huge amounts of money, many were unproductive, run poorly and the owners had pretty much lost control of their own assets to the workers, unions et al, there was continual resistence to change, modernisation etc, the cost to the UK tax payer by 1983 was something in the region of 6 billion a year, continual strikes and loss of productivity in the 3 years running up to the closures also affected general manufacturing adding several billion more, most people from most political and social backgrounds with the benefit of hindsight would look back and agree it was the right thing to do, less of course the miners and trade unions.

At the time I was in agreement with the miners and unions and sympathised, however I was young and not particularily well informed.

 

[RCoon]

By the way back when That Thatcher b...ch ruled Britain for the bosses and crushed the unions, we in the US raised tens of thousands in support of the Kent coal miners. We even had a support committee and flew a couple of miners over here to do a speaking tour across the States to explain the issues of the strike. One of our comrades was from Britain and he had gone over there during the strike to build ties with the strikers. Many of us still have friendships with some of those blokes to this very day.

As Tatty said, the miners and unions were beginning to ruin the balance of everything, and they abused the power they had. They all had big tantrums because they werent getting what they wanted. Even today unions control a large percentage of the government parties. Every single year teachers strike, say they dont get paid enough. I am a member of support staff, I choose not to join a union, and I havent had a cost of living pay rise for the last 4 years (that's a neat loss of money if I count inflation), and yet we never strike. I dont mind if unions exist to protect employees, but nowadays they merely abuse the system. Thatcher may have been exceedingly disliked, but at least she crushed the unions before they genuinely believed they could run the country by disrupting people's lives on a daily basis.
Everybody is angry for what she did, but everybody also knows what she did was right.

 

[os2wiz]

Perspectives...... I have been anti Thatcher pretty much all my adult life, however the coal mines were leaking huge amounts of money, many were unproductive, run poorly and the owners had pretty much lost control of their own assets to the workers, unions et al, there was continual resistence to change, modernisation etc, the cost to the UK tax payer by 1983 was something in the region of 6 billion a year, continual strikes and loss of productivity in the 3 years running up to the closures also affected general manufacturing adding several billion more, most people from most political and social backgrounds with the benefit of hindsight would look back and agree it was the right thing to do, less of course the miners and trade unions.

At the time I was in agreement with the miners and unions and sympathised, however I was young and not particularily well informed.

Of course the costs were to the bosses mainly. So with a straight face you can tell me the living standards and conditions of the British working class have risen since the destruction of the mining , dock, and newspaper unions? I think not. The same road to the bottom has occurred in the states. The losses in wages have been severe. They are actually far worse than what the data suggests. You may ask why. The answer the US government rigs the Consumer Price Index the same way Barclays rigged the Libor index. They never include food costs and the cost of gasoline and heating oil. So you can easily double the real price increase per centage each year. As we have no choice but to eat and heat our homes and most have to drive to work because of the inadequacies of public transport outside of 3 or 4 large cities in the states.

 

[vega22]

i wouldnt go that far, if it wasnt for the government abusing its powers the unions wouldnt of needed to react the way they did.

as for what she did being right, yea well my town still aint recovered 30 years on as we still have higher than average unemployment after the mines closed. they was the biggest employer in this area and nothing has been done to replace them.

modernisation would of been the right thing to do, instead now we have to pay top dollar to fuel the power stations we still have which use it instead of using coal mined in the uk. not to mention the other resources which they would of no doubt found by now. so we have to get over the barrel for the russians.

well done....

 

[Fourstaff]

So with a straight face you can tell me the living standards and conditions of the British working class have risen since the distruction of the mining , dock, and newspaper unions? I think not.
P

Yes I can tell you that the living standards and conditions of the British working class has deteriorated since then. However I cannot agree to any arrangement which robs the state and hands it to inefficient industries.

 

[vega22]

Yes I can tell you that the living standards and conditions of the British working class has deteriorated since then. However I cannot agree to any arrangement which robs the state and hands it to inefficient industries.

*reads post, looks at government, pisses ones self laughing*

 

[Fourstaff]

*reads post, looks at government, pisses ones self laughing*

Mind you the government is not doing anything right at the moment, but on the other hand I still think what Thatcher did was right.

 

[Tatty_Two]

i wouldnt go that far, if it wasnt for the government abusing its powers the unions wouldnt of needed to react the way they did.

as for what she did being right, yea well my town still aint recovered 30 years on as we still have higher than average unemployment after the mines closed. they was the biggest employer in this area and nothing has been done to replace them.

modernisation would of been the right thing to do, instead now we have to pay top dollar to fuel the power stations we still have which use it instead of using coal mined in the uk. not to mention the other resources which they would of no doubt found by now. so we have to get over the barrel for the russians.

well done....

Forgive me for replying to a couple of people's comments but only quoting you (I'm lazy ). I continue to sympathise with those ex mining communities that are still suffering from the pain that was caused by mine closures, mainly because i don't care about institutions, government or politicians, I care about people, my comments earlier on the subject were playing Devil's Advocate...... not taking sides.

As for your comments specifically, and again playing Devil's Advocate, even if Thatcher had not taken this stance, this country would have no significant mining industry today, you may or may not be aware that at the time of the strikes, 60% of coal used by industry in this country was actually imported, mainly from Argentina, simply because to import it was cheaper than buying locally sourced coal because miners but more importantly their Unions did not want modernisation and resisted it for 20 years, because inevitably modernisation increases efficiency, lowers the workforce and thus reduces costs, they were the instigators of their own industry's downfall ultimately (Unions NOT miners). At the time of closure, coal was pretty much the most expensive form of fuel, add to that the increased Yeilds of natural gas from the North Sea AND the increasing majority of housholds moving from coal to Gas and it resulted in a pretty bleak outlook...... of course at the same time the industry was being subsidised with Billions of taxpayers money.

Also, without playing Devil's Advocate now, so a personal view, I struggle to support any strike (and I beleive in the Unions and the voice of working people) when a National ballot of members DOES NOT take place, the one year long strike never went to a national ballot, whole splinter groups of the NUM representing specific Regional area's were against the strike and they were Blackmailed and bullied to the point of threats on life to participate.

Lastly, as for standard of living in the UK for working class people.... I agree, to me it has gone downhill, part of this is due to the recession to be fair, just go ask someone from Greece, Portugal or Spain and they would probably say the same but I do agree much is "self induced", however how many workforces can boast (for want of a better word) of a minimum wage, a benefits and health system etc etc like ours? Is it broken....... yes probably, but possibly less broken than most others

 

[os2wiz]

i wouldnt go that far, if it wasnt for the government abusing its powers the unions wouldnt of needed to react the way they did.

as for what she did being right, yea well my town still aint recovered 30 years on as we still have higher than average unemployment after the mines closed. they was the biggest employer in this area and nothing has been done to replace them.

modernisation would of been the right thing to do, instead now we have to pay top dollar to fuel the power stations we still have which use it instead of using coal mined in the uk. not to mention the other resources which they would of no doubt found by now. so we have to get over the barrel for the russians.

well done....

That is the spot on truth of the matter. The bosses raking in trillions and we are relegated to the scrap heap like we are garbage. That is the core of the problem. That is why I am not a reformer , but a revolutionary. The system is the problem not merely some political figure. Labor is just as guilty on this as the Tories. Look when the great rebellion ocurred 2 years ago, when that copper murdered that black worker. That was an opportunity for the whole working class to rise up. So what happens? The youth both black and white fight back, but with no organized leadership so of course the media and government focus in on a few thugs who did bad things, instead of the the underlying message of racism and working class dissatifaction. And where was the Labour Party? Villyfying the youth and joining forces with the other capitalist parties against our class.That was the proof in the pudding that Labour is a bosses tool, not an instrument of change.
So we communists are not lunatics we are grounded in the reality our class faces and are fighting to build the unity and fight back . We have a vision for the future, a world where we pull together, not for the bosses profit , but for the good of humanity. It is survival thinking not head in the clouds.Love all my mates in Britain.

 

[Tatty_Two]

However, in the case of the coal industry in the UK.... noone was raking in anything, certainly not trillions, the industry had not drawn even across the board for years hence the government subsidary, yes you could argue that the action was short sighted, in so much as closing the mines when they did may have saved billions however the actual cost in social terms was much greater than the savings made, probably in unemployment terms alone, I can only guess at the financial cost of an additional 250,000+ unemployed, let alone the social destruction it caused.

 

[Fourstaff]

However, in the case of the coal industry in the UK.... noone was raking in anything, certainly not trillions, the industry had not drawn even across the board for years hence the government subsidary, yes you could argue that the action was short sighted, in so much as closing the mines when they did may have saved billions however the actual cost in social terms was much greater than the savings made, probably in unemployment terms alone, I can only guess at the financial cost of an additional 250,000+ unemployed, let alone the social destruction it caused.

Closing the mines was fine, its what the government did after that which is wrong: they could have poured in the billions saved into retraining and equipping the workforce with something to continue their lives. Instead what we have right now are pools of people on benefit, and very few if any willing to tackle the problem heads on.

Power corrupts, this is something which happens with almost 100% certainty given enough time. With that in mind, I strongly prefer benevolent dictator style of government.

 

[os2wiz]

However, in the case of the coal industry in the UK.... noone was raking in anything, certainly not trillions, the industry had not drawn even across the board for years hence the government subsidary, yes you could argue that the action was short sighted, in so much as closing the mines when they did may have saved billions however the actual cost in social terms was much greater than the savings made, probably in unemployment terms alone, I can only guess at the financial cost of an additional 250,000+ unemployed, let alone the social destruction it caused.

So mate we are not so far apart as when we started the dialogue. I appreciate your thoughts. I am in favor of modernization, but jobs and living standards must be protected. That is the problem, they never are. So progress to those at the top usually means suffering and hardship for most people. Every human being in my book has the right to a job, decent healthy food, a dry, warm roof over their head, good education for their children, and excellent heath care. Not asking for a private island, personal chef, nor private jet. We are willing to work , it is central to human dignity. So tell me why over 5 billion of the 6 billion on this planet do not have all these important components of a decent life? It is mind boggling the potential humanity has if it is harnessed and all are given work and purpose. Capitalism is the crime. The working class has the solution in its grasp. If we dare to struggle and dare to win.

 

[Tatty_Two]

So mate we are not so far apart as when we started the dialogue. I appreciate your thoughts. I am in favor of modernization, but jobs and living standards must be protected. That is the problem, they never are. So progress to those at the top usually means suffering and hardship for most people. Every human being in my book has the right to a job, decent healthy food, a dry, warm roof over their head, good education for their children, and excellent heath care. Not asking for a private island, personal chef, nor private jet. We are willing to work , it is central to human dignity. So tell me why over 5 billion of the 6 billion on this planet do not have all these important components of a decent life? It is mind boggling the potential humanity has if it is harnessed and all are given work and purpose. Capitalism is the crime. The working class has the solution in its grasp. If we dare to struggle and dare to win.

Good points and I agree with most of them and yes, whilst we may have a different take on things I think our views have much in common. Not everyone wants to work though, many want something for nothing, there is a clear line to be drawn between those that "expect" and those that "deserve". A typical example in the UK with a minimum wage is simply that a large majority of the long term unemployed are simly unemployed because they will not work for the minimum wage, expectations over the last 50 years have become so great we have imploded. In my current role I work a lot in partnership with large organisations, many of which take social responsibility very seriously and work with my organisation (A large national youth charity) to support young people into work and training. Recently I was visiting a DHL logisitics warehouse in the Midlands, I met many of the workers and was taken aback by the amount of Eastern European workers.

During a discussion afterwards with the management I mentioned this, only to be told that out of a shop floor workforce of 502, 501 of them were Eastern European and just the one was a Brit, when i questioned why, the reply was that almost all unemployed Brits refuse to work for the minimum wage which was their starting wage, this wage incrementally increased after the first 6 months, I left the vist dismayed, angry and very saddened. This is where I become more "hardline", I am of the view that if you are not prepared to contribute you should forgo the right to all those things you mentioned in your previous post.

 

[RCoon]

During a discussion afterwards with the management I mentioned this, only to be told that out of a shop floor workforce of 502, 501 of them were Eastern European and just the one was a Brit, when i questioned why, the reply was that almost all unemployed Brits refuse to work for the minimum wage which was their starting wage, this wage incrementally increased after the first 6 months, I left the vist dismayed, angry and very saddened. This is where I become more "hardline", I am of the view that if you are not prepared to contribute you should forgo the right to all those things you mentioned in your previous post.

Most unemployed brits, at least in my area, simply cant be bothered to work. They are brought up in similar environments, parents do nothing all day, they wonder why should they work when they can get paid to do nothing, and get paid more for having more children? They dont want to get paid minimum wage for putting in effort. They're so lazy, they want a lot for nothing. And yet the British people complain about European workers "taking their jobs". You cant steal something that isnt somebody's in the first place.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Shall we get back to more general nonsense such as crushing bottles in cleavages and the cost of memory?

 

[RCoon]

Shall we get back to more general nonsense such as crushing bottles in cleavages and the cost of memory?

I want to replace my processor. In general its good, but it requires 1.32v for 4.4Ghz which is awful. I cant decide whether to get an i5, or i7, or whether to go for a new haswell processor-mobo bundle. I was also half tempted to get a 2700K

 

[d1nky]

I want to replace my processor. In general its good, but it requires 1.32v for 4.4Ghz which is awful. I cant decide whether to get an i5, or i7, or whether to go for a new haswell processor-mobo bundle. I was also half tempted to get a 2700K

meh get an 8350 and give me some competition LOL

 

[RCoon]

meh get an 8350 and give me some competition LOL

I was also considering that, paired with a Gigabyte UD5 or the dreaded Sabertooth. Catch is my waterblock is for intel.

 

[d1nky]

I was also considering that, paired with a Gigabyte UD5 or the dreaded Sabertooth. Catch is my waterblock is for intel.

didn't you get the xspc kit which had the mount for AMD as well

I think johan just blew up his sabertooth from benching LOL I kind of dominated majority of the 8350 benches on H20

 

[RCoon]

didn't you get the xspc kit which had the mount for AMD as well

I think johan just blew up his sabertooth from benching LOL I kind of dominated majority of the 8350 benches on H20

Ah yeah I do still have the AMD clamp for it. It's either a 3770K or a non hyperthreaded 4 core with a new mobo, cant decide.