• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel's 2014 Thunderbolt Controller Detailed

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
46,283 (7.69/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
Intel is continuing on its mission to establish Thunderbolt as the next universal device interconnect standard, despite steep competition from the 5 Gb/s USB 3.0, the upcoming 10 Gb/s USB 3.1, and stringent validation and licensing barriers on its own end. To that effect, the company outlined its mainstream Thunderbolt controller, which it plans to launch some time in 2014. The company is planning two major introductions to the standard, to help it compete against USB - power delivery, and ad-hoc (peer-to-peer) networking.

The controller, Broadwell Thunderbolt-LP, isn't designed too differently from what's available in the market. It handles a 20 Gb/s Thunderbolt link by aggregating two 10 Gb/s channels, relays DisplayPort 1.2 from the system's graphics device, and connects to the rest of the system over PCIe 2.0 x2. The chip is built in the 8 x 8 mm package, and features operational and idle TDP ratings of 1.5W and 1mW, respectively. The changes Intel is making to the standard will enable power delivery of up to 53W over a standard tethered cable. That's enough power to run a drive dock with up to six 3.5-inch hard drives, or a small (<24-inch) flat-screen monitor. The other big feature is ad-hoc networking, which enables people to set up peer-to-peer 20 Gb/s connections between two PCs much in the same way they did with USB and RS232, back in the day. While it's no Ethernet replacement, it could prove useful in certain environments, such as content-creation. Intel is expected to make some Thunderbolt-related announcements at CES, next January.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
5,239 (0.75/day)
Location
Ikenai borderline!
System Name Firelance.
Processor Threadripper 3960X
Motherboard ROG Strix TRX40-E Gaming
Cooling IceGem 360 + 6x Arctic Cooling P12
Memory 8x 16GB Patriot Viper DDR4-3200 CL16
Video Card(s) MSI GeForce RTX 4060 Ti Ventus 2X OC
Storage 2TB WD SN850X (boot), 4TB Crucial P3 (data)
Display(s) 3x AOC Q32E2N (32" 2560x1440 75Hz)
Case Enthoo Pro II Server Edition (Closed Panel) + 6 fans
Power Supply Fractal Design Ion+ 2 Platinum 760W
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Logitech G613
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
1.5W TDP? Ouch.
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
28 (0.01/day)
the upcoming 10 Gb/s USB 3.1
Well Intel, you're late then. USB 3.1 - cheaper, just as fast, backwards compability, less power consumption, all devices support it. Seriously Intel, you've lost.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
598 (0.13/day)
Location
Pacific Rim
Processor Ryzen 3600
Motherboard B450
Cooling Scythe Ashura
Memory Team Dark Z 3200 8GB x2
Video Card(s) MSI 390
Storage WD 2TB + WD Green 640GB
Display(s) Samsung 40JU6600 @ 200% scaling
Case Coolermaster CM 690 II
Audio Device(s) Fiio E10K, Graham Slee Solo II SRG, Sennheiser HD6XX, AKG K7XX, ATH WS1100is
Power Supply Corsair HX650
Mouse Rival 700
Keyboard Corsair K70, Razer Tarantula
Well Intel, you're late then. USB 3.1 - cheaper, just as fast, backwards compability, less power consumption, all devices support it. Seriously Intel, you've lost.
Not as fast. 20gbps vs 10gbps, twice the lanes, and better traffic management.
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
543 (0.14/day)
I think it's too little, too late.

Intel has successfully made the next generation of Firewire.

1) Make a new standard that eschews what the rest of the industry is doing.
2) Have Apple introduce it, be exclusive with it for a good long time, and let them be the ones to name it.
3) Keep it outrageously expensive for even longer.
4) Let the cheaper, more common competition continuously update their standard to the point where yours has only the tiniest of advantages before you finally drop your prices.
5) Keep at room temperature. Enjoy!
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
1,870 (0.32/day)
Processor RyZen R9 3950X
Motherboard ASRock X570 Taichi
Cooling Coolermaster Master Liquid ML240L RGB
Memory 64GB DDR4 3200 (4x16GB)
Video Card(s) RTX 3050
Storage Samsung 2TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE276Q, VE278Q and VK278Q triple 27” 1920x1080
Case Zulman MS800
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic 650W
VR HMD Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest V1, Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 11 64bit
I think there is room in the market for Thunderbolt (I and II) and USB (3.0 and 3.1). I have nothing against Thunderbolt and would have no problem using it. However, Intel IMO has horribly mismanaged its deployment of Thunderbolt and has effectively impeded / hobbled its adoption in the market. Intel forcing Intel graphics as a standard part of the spec or required prerequisite of all Thunderbolt implementations as well as its initial Apple only release opted out many potential buyers from the start,......and continues to do so now in some respects.

Intel would need to allow DisplayPort from any source (drop the Intel iGPU nonsense) or possibly make DisplayPort optional before it could really take off as well as lower the cost of implementation.

USB 3.0 (and likely USB 3.1) is easy, cheap and nonrestrictive to take advantage of but Thunderbolt is anything but that. Intel needs to fix this or most people simply won't give a $#!t.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
1,075 (0.20/day)
Location
SCOTLAND!
System Name Machine XV
Processor Dual Xeon E5 2670 V3 Turbo unlocked
Motherboard Kllisre X99 Dual
Cooling 120mm heatsink
Memory 64gb DDR4 ECC
Video Card(s) RX 480 4Gb
Storage 1Tb NVME SSD
Display(s) 19" + 23" + 17"
Case ATX
Audio Device(s) XFi xtreme USB
Power Supply 800W
Software Windows 10
It's going to go the way of FireWire. Rare, expensive and only a handful of expensive devices will support it. But that won't stop it appearing on high end motherboards as a power parasite that's never used.


Hands up anyone who even has even owned a FireWire device?
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
It's going to go the way of FireWire. Rare, expensive and only a handful of expensive devices will support it. But that won't stop it appearing on high end motherboards as a power parasite that's never used.


Hands up anyone who even has even owned a FireWire device?

Firewhat??
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
18,914 (2.86/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + some headphones, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
VR HMD Acer Mixed Reality Headset
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
It's going to go the way of FireWire. Rare, expensive and only a handful of expensive devices will support it. But that won't stop it appearing on high end motherboards as a power parasite that's never used.


Hands up anyone who even has even owned a FireWire device?

I've had some sound cards using it.

I still would love to see Thunderbolt expanded. Would make perfect universal laptop docking stations.
 

Fourstaff

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
10,020 (1.91/day)
Location
Home
System Name Orange! // ItchyHands
Processor 3570K // 10400F
Motherboard ASRock z77 Extreme4 // TUF Gaming B460M-Plus
Cooling Stock // Stock
Memory 2x4Gb 1600Mhz CL9 Corsair XMS3 // 2x8Gb 3200 Mhz XPG D41
Video Card(s) Sapphire Nitro+ RX 570 // Asus TUF RTX 2070
Storage Samsung 840 250Gb // SX8200 480GB
Display(s) LG 22EA53VQ // Philips 275M QHD
Case NZXT Phantom 410 Black/Orange // Tecware Forge M
Power Supply Corsair CXM500w // CM MWE 600w
Would make perfect universal laptop docking stations.

Except Intel has hobbled the most important part of the docking station: refusing to certify external gpu housing.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
1,870 (0.32/day)
Processor RyZen R9 3950X
Motherboard ASRock X570 Taichi
Cooling Coolermaster Master Liquid ML240L RGB
Memory 64GB DDR4 3200 (4x16GB)
Video Card(s) RTX 3050
Storage Samsung 2TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE276Q, VE278Q and VK278Q triple 27” 1920x1080
Case Zulman MS800
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic 650W
VR HMD Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest V1, Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 11 64bit
It's going to go the way of FireWire. Rare, expensive and only a handful of expensive devices will support it. But that won't stop it appearing on high end motherboards as a power parasite that's never used.


Hands up anyone who even has even owned a FireWire device?

high-end motherboards,......

Actually Thunderbolt has an issue with contradiction as well. One might think Thounderbolt is intended for higher-end motherboards because of a price premium. However, higher-end motherboards such as X79 boards are not eligible for Thunderbolt support due to the lack of an Intel iGPU which only leaves typically less expensive and not as high-end Z77 / Z87 boards.

It's something of a Goldie Locks symdron, it can't be too hot and it can't be too cold it has to be just right. You don't get Thunderbolt on truly high-end boards like X79 and you don't get Thunderbolt on cheap lower-end boards (or AMD based boards) you only get it with the middle or upper-middle-end boards Z77 / Z87.

I'll be looking at Haswell-E / X99 / LGA2011-3 motherboards whenever they are released (late 2014 ?) and I don't necessarily expect Thunderbolt or an Intel iGPU on the platform (I've heard no info on either in this respect). At this point I am not even sure I care about Thunderbolt but I definitely won't let it influence my buying decisions on such boards.

As I said before, Intel is impeding adoption of Thunderbolt by keeping it exclusive (too many requirements and restrictions) and keeping the user base small which forces the price to remain high.
 

Frick

Fishfaced Nincompoop
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
18,914 (2.86/day)
Location
Piteå
System Name Black MC in Tokyo
Processor Ryzen 5 5600
Motherboard Asrock B450M-HDV
Cooling Be Quiet! Pure Rock 2
Memory 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury 3400mhz
Video Card(s) XFX 6950XT Speedster MERC 319
Storage Kingston A400 240GB | WD Black SN750 2TB |WD Blue 1TB x 2 | Toshiba P300 2TB | Seagate Expansion 8TB
Display(s) Samsung U32J590U 4K + BenQ GL2450HT 1080p
Case Fractal Design Define R4
Audio Device(s) Line6 UX1 + some headphones, Nektar SE61 keyboard
Power Supply Corsair RM850x v3
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL Brown
VR HMD Acer Mixed Reality Headset
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Rimworld 4K ready!
Except Intel has hobbled the most important part of the docking station: refusing to certify external gpu housing.

Exactly. So much potential wasted on ... crap, just crap.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
1,075 (0.20/day)
Location
SCOTLAND!
System Name Machine XV
Processor Dual Xeon E5 2670 V3 Turbo unlocked
Motherboard Kllisre X99 Dual
Cooling 120mm heatsink
Memory 64gb DDR4 ECC
Video Card(s) RX 480 4Gb
Storage 1Tb NVME SSD
Display(s) 19" + 23" + 17"
Case ATX
Audio Device(s) XFi xtreme USB
Power Supply 800W
Software Windows 10
I 100% agree the only good use would an external graphics card. It's been hacked with the Optimus drives over express card but that's only a 1x link. It's almost like they think intel graphics is all anyone will ever need.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
1,870 (0.32/day)
Processor RyZen R9 3950X
Motherboard ASRock X570 Taichi
Cooling Coolermaster Master Liquid ML240L RGB
Memory 64GB DDR4 3200 (4x16GB)
Video Card(s) RTX 3050
Storage Samsung 2TB SSD
Display(s) Asus VE276Q, VE278Q and VK278Q triple 27” 1920x1080
Case Zulman MS800
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic 650W
VR HMD Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest V1, Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 11 64bit
I 100% agree the only good use would an external graphics card. It's been hacked with the Optimus drives over express card but that's only a 1x link. It's almost like they think intel graphics is all anyone will ever need.

Clearly,....

From Intel's perspective, the Thunderbolt target market doesn't need anything but Intel graphics. Naturally that leaves us all out in the cold. With any luck USB 3.1 can address this somewhat but I doubt it. I agree that functionality and performance is left on the table by Intel's insistence in pushing their iGPU at the detriment of non-Intel graphics,....

It would be laughable if Intel weren't so dead serious about it but since they are it just comes off as sad and deluded.
 
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
343 (0.08/day)
Location
Ft Stewart
System Name Queen Bee
Processor 3570k @ 4.0GHz
Motherboard Gigabyte UD3 Z77
Cooling Water Loop by EK
Memory 8GB Corsair 1600 DDR3
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 970 Gaming WaterCooled
Storage 1x Western Digital 500GB Black 1x Intel 20GB 311 SSD
Display(s) BenQ XL2420G
Case CoolTek W2
Power Supply Corsair 650Watt
Software Windows 7 Pro
Hands up anyone who even has even owned a FireWire device?

External Card Reader/ 3.5/2.5 HDD Dock
Well it had a FireWire 800 port, but it also had E-SATA. Which actually worked, and worked well enough I NEVER used the FireWire port.
 
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
11,655 (1.73/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs and over 10TB spinning
Display(s) 56" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
It's going to go the way of FireWire. Rare, expensive and only a handful of expensive devices will support it. But that won't stop it appearing on high end motherboards as a power parasite that's never used.


Hands up anyone who even has even owned a FireWire device?


I have, and at the time it was much better for file transfers than USB, an before the time of NAS that was reasonably priced. Most computers were made with it, but never included the I/O connector so no one ever used it.

I see two issues here though, they are robbing peter to pay paul in PCIe lanes for people that will actually use it, and the standards read like a bad divorce so expecting easy or complete compliance for anything but high end components is going to be a joke.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
" That's enough power to run a drive dock with up to six 3.5-inch hard drives, or a small (<24-inch) flat-screen monitor."


my 46" LED HDTV only uses 45W (measured at the wall) with the backlight at 2 out of 5.

you can run a pretty big screen off this if they lowered the maximum settings.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.65/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
Thunderbolt isn't going anywhere. USB (copper) will eventually find its limit and then Thunderbolt will gain prominence. Bandwidth is the same reason why DisplayPort, albeit slowly, is replacing DVI/HDMI. I believe Intel knows this which is why it isn't paying motherboard manufacturers to put Thunderbolt on their products. Intel knew it was a long-term investment which is why it went to Apple with it (Apple will force it on their customers whether they like it or not). When USB reaches it's limit, Intel will invest in Thunderbolt deployment (e.g. embed support in their chipsets) and it will steadily overtake USB over a 10 year period. USB will be forgotten and Thunderbolt will be the go to interface (unless USB over fiber debuts and it is cheaper than Thunderbolt, anyway).

So yeah, this is still boring news...for now.
 
Top