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Is Western Digital really this bad now or am I just unlucky?

AsRock

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View attachment 57172

Thanks, for not reading it, and for not understanding words, I know words, and they are hard, perhaps these words I am using are too hard too? So here is a picture.

What was ascertained (ascertained means logically reasoned from data presented) was that drives that showed a temperature increase in the same environment (it means where they are and have been, like their little server home) in the third year had a marked increase in failure compared to drives that did NOT (did NOT means it didn't (or Uh Uhh to some special kids)) show the same increase. We can then form an idea that something caused the temperature to rise, perhaps it was a failing bearing, which cooling will not help if its already dying, or pesky little mean guys who know when the warranty is up!!! Drink the Vodka, wear your foil hat and don't let them read your dirty thoughts!!!

This also shows cool running drives have a significantly higher chance of dying in the first three months than those running warmer, and the trend continues through year two. data is tough to read, and graphs (pictures n' stuff) is hard too, but you did good if you made it this far. If you want a cookie reply!!!!

I have a special place in my heart for little tykes like this, I love him SOOOOOO much.

So?, that reinforces what i said as i did not say any thing about a the temps, how ever i bet average joe who goes dell,hp or who ever there HHD is typically over the 40c mark due to case design even more so with the summers America and some hot countrys have were 30c is room temp alown.

My WD's i had raided ( 6 ) which was why i got the OLD style TT Armor case kept my HDD's around 30-42c in the summer time and once i forgot to plug in the 3 front fans and the drives went crazy when the temps hit over 48c.

Then SSD's started to come to the market so jumped on that train which around 2 of them died which seems to be a mechanical issue were the other 4 are still today in use for backups.

HDD's change over the years along with quality so any chart of that kind can never be 100%.

Google lol, Yeah don't google with the biggest spy machine around :p.
 

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I am not taking sides with one or the other.
Both studies are good reads.
However, both, are complete only in their own limits.

It seems to me... to be a "they said and they said" thing.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

The study Steevo is drawing the results from are a study from 2007: Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population by Eduardo Pinheiro, Wolf-Dietrich Weber and Luiz Andre' Barroso
Google Inc.


And, this 2012 study differs slightly...

Datacenter Scale Evaluation of the Impact of Temperature on Hard Disk Drive Failures 
SRIRAM SANKAR, Microsoft Corporation
MARK SHAW, Microsoft Corporation
KUSHAGRA VAID, Microsoft Corporation
SUDHANVA GURUMURTHI, University of Virginia




Quote from above study:
upload_2014-6-8_9-52-24.png

Figure 5 Failure rates at different hard disk drive temperatures

The result of our study is surprising since earlier studies [Pinheiro et al. 2007] establish that disk drive failures do not increase with increase in temperature in the field. Figure 5 shows the actual HDD temperature in increments of one degree and the corresponding AFR for our entire population. We see clearly that with increase in HDD temperature, the AFR rate increases. There are some data points at the end of the spectrum that have smaller number of samples and hence a higher skew. For the major part of the distribution (shown by PDF columns), we see that AFR steadily increases as HDD temperature increases.

Edit:
@OP: Either, you are very un-lucky or I am very lucky; because, in all my years of using hard drives, only drive failure I have had is a Maxtor 32MB (yes, Mega) HDD.
Other, than that, I had a couple relocate a sector of two, but, they kept on ticking.
 
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to me both studies say the same thing lol.
keep your hard disks at 30c 24/7 if you can

but to see afr drop as the temps go above 46c is strange to me.

To me heat and bearings or anything that spins is a bad combination as heat makes everything in a mechanical hard disk expand. and they have ridiculously low tolerance levels.
so it seems quite obvious if you only look at it from a physics standpoint that it is best to keep your drives at ambient temperatures to prevent expansion and contraction..
and the only way to do that is by cooling them..
 
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to me both studies say the same thing lol.
keep your hard disks at 30c 24/7 if you can

but to see afr drop as the temps go above 46c is strange to me.

To me heat and bearings or anything that spins is a bad combination as heat makes everything in a mechanical hard disk expand. and they have ridiculously low tolerance levels.
so it seems quite obvious if you only look at it from a physics standpoint that it is best to keep your drives at ambient temperatures to prevent expansion and contraction..
and the only way to do that is by cooling them..

The expansion is taken into account, so that the best fit is obtained at certain operating temperature. You don't design it with dimensions/tolerance levels at 0°C because that's not it's working temperature.
Same goes with your car, engine wear is higher when cold (due to oil not being at working temperature and the parts haven't expanded due to heat).
 
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no oil in a hdd.. But yep there are operating temperatures, mostly mfrs state 5c-55c which again puts 30c in the sweet spot.
 
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It may help, if you would actually read the papers before commenting on them.
They don't say the same thing.




Yes, there is oil, of some type, in those HDDs.

they do say the same thing lol..
30c over all over all time periods has the average lowest failure rate..

the bearings may have a small amount of oil. so il have to concede to that point.
 

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That isn't something a power issue would cause.

Having multiple drives dying would alert most to either batch failure or environmental concerns, and we can rule out batch failure given the circumstances.

Your APC might be having troubles, cutting off power every so often that forces the HDD to spin down and up in very short intervals. Try disconnecting it and see how it goes?

Additionally, everyone in this thread should cool down.
 
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Only if they go below 30C Right around 90F is perfect for drives.

What people may be failing to realize here, if a datacenter had 1000 of the same drive of multiple batches, the drives which experienced a running temperature increase in their third year are more likely to die. Irregardless of what operating temperature they had prior, this single datapoint cannot be ignored. Extrapolating
I am not taking sides with one or the other.
Both studies are good reads.
However, both, are complete only in their own limits.

It seems to me... to be a "they said and they said" thing.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

The study Steevo is drawing the results from are a study from 2007: Failure Trends in a Large Disk Drive Population by Eduardo Pinheiro, Wolf-Dietrich Weber and Luiz Andre' Barroso
Google Inc.


And, this 2012 study differs slightly...

Datacenter Scale Evaluation of the Impact of Temperature on Hard Disk Drive Failures 
SRIRAM SANKAR, Microsoft Corporation
MARK SHAW, Microsoft Corporation
KUSHAGRA VAID, Microsoft Corporation
SUDHANVA GURUMURTHI, University of Virginia




Quote from above study:


Edit:
@OP: Either, you are very un-lucky or I am very lucky; because, in all my years of using hard drives, only drive failure I have had is a Maxtor 32MB (yes, Mega) HDD.
Other, than that, I had a couple relocate a sector of two, but, they kept on ticking.


Page 12 directly shows conflicting data. According to page 6 disk 5 is the hottest. Later graphs show that until 40C is breached there is no significant change in AFR attributable to temperature.

I have the following concerns with this study, only HP servers were used, no datapoints were given as to the number of drives sampled, no analysis of different HDD mfg's.

Untitled.jpg
 

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I've personally have had to send back 2 of my 4 WD blacks, however they didn't both fail at the same time and I hadn't expanded my RAID to 4 disks from 3 as I was replacing a disk and adding a disk, but two drives failed within a week of each other, so it's not unrealistic that new drives will fail more often that drives that have already been working for a couple thousand hours. What you need to do is stress test the drive and run an extended SMART test on it before adding it to a RAID to try and make sure the drive is ready to roll before potentially putting your data in jeopardy. Also, this should be a learning experience that RAID is not a replacement for a backup.
 

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However, both, are complete only in their own limits.

I have the following concerns with this study, only HP servers were used, no datapoints were given as to the number of drives sampled, no analysis of different HDD mfg's.

Quote from the study I posted earlier:
We perform our data measurements on a population measuring thousands of servers and ten thousands of hard disk drives.

I had concerns with both studies; that is why I added that statement above in my quote of me... Neither study takes into consideration other specifics that could affect the results. There are a lot of other forces that should be addressed to get the complete picture.

I was not trying to instigate. I was just introducing a varying viewpoint of an alternate study.

Now, my personal opinion from observation is that I have had more hardware problems/failures from heat... as do most any temperature sensitive electronics devices/parts do.
 
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I would never use a WD Green drive for the OS! In fact I would use a Green drive period. I only use WD Black drives and in all the years I have had only 1 WD Black drive screw up. And I have about 40 of them. I haven't bought a drive in about 6 years and they all run 24/7
 
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Don't buy WD Green drives they are shit had two die on me over 2 years also these drivers are used in my books so dont buy those ether.
 
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I never had a WD green fail in last years (I have three) but WD Red 3TB 3 in a row!
Failure rate rising?
 
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both of mine WD green seemed like a PCB failure seeing i could get all my data off the drive using a linux boot disk, but window wouldn't boot with the drives plugged in also the bios had problems getting pass the hdd check.
 
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Yeah, I removed a PCB and it had like "salt" on one of the chips. BIOS had problems too, a USB3 Dock took ages or did not recognize it.
I didn't know Linux would let you salvage data... Thanks.
 
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I used Parted Magic it took awhile to bring the drive files up but it did, Then i just copied them over to another drive this worked for both drives after getting them past the bios took more than a few try's.
 
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Follow my rule. Never buy those crappy "green" drives. They are green and rubbish like 90% of "Eco" stuff. I've bought the 2TB Caviar Black which is essentially a server grade drive without RAID capability and with less thorough testing. It currently has massive number of operational hours and its still working like a champ. It's ultra fast for a traditional HDD, reliable and not that loud. It's running basically 24/7 with few hours or day or two of pause through several months time. If i'll ever have to buy one again, it will be a Caviar Black again. Or, if there will ever be one, a 2TB Velociraptor. If SSD doesn't become drastically cheaper in the meanwhile. 2TB seems to be a sweet spot for me, so i'm just sticking with that.
 
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been thinking of a 1tb Velociraptor my self. a decent 6gb/s 260Gb ssd is about £150 a 1tb sata 6gb velociraptor is near enough the same price.
but looking at the performances "real world and synthetic" a ssd even limited by a 3gb/s sata connector is still much much MUCH faster than a velociraptor on a 6gb/s sata connector. and thats the fastest mechanical drive there is.
its really dissapointing.
If the prices on the 256Gb ssd's dropped to the £50-£80 mark (what i usually pay for 1tb mechanical) It would take a lot of struggeling for me to hand over the money but i think at that price point i probably would hand over the cash.
anything less than 256gb just is not going to cut it for my main os drive though.
 
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Then it's also practicality. 1 big drive or 4 small drives that have to be connected to form a bigger single volume drive. I hate SSD's because small drives are relatively affordable, but big SSD drives are still ridiculously expensive.
 
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Just had another Blue drive die, bad sectors once again.

Lots of talk about the avoiding the Green drives, I don't get it.

My Green drive lasted me the longest.

It was the Blue and the Red drives that failed the fastes.

And no it isn't a power issue.

Everything is run on APC battery backups, the NAS and my PC are on different battery backup units as well.
 

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In a little over a year I've had 8 Western Digital hard drive die on me!

It all started with the WD Green 1TB I was using as the OS drive in my main rig starting to die. (This happened to my friend)

I didn't really think much of it since the drive was kind of old, it was original from a pre-built HP I had before I built my main rig.

Luckily I was able to get everything off of it and replace it with the WD Red. REDS are NAS drives and everyone knows they had some bad batches last year

After that scare though I decided to put together a NAS with a RAID5 using 4 1TB WD Blues. Blues are consumer drives and should not go in a NAS

After about 1 month the first Blue drive died, the NAS warned me of a failed drive, and sure enough HDTune found bad sectors.

I RMA'd the drive, replaced it, and rebuilt the array.

A month later another Blue drive dies, bad sectors again!

Worse part, while I was waiting on the RMA, a second Blue died!

This one wouldn't even be recognized by anything I plugged it into.

The whole array gone, Awesome.:cry:

Ok, so I RMA'd both drives, rebuilt the array once again, and began re-ripping my DVDs.

This time though I also bought a WD 3TB My Book USB3.0 External which I attached to the NAS to back up the RAID.

About 2 months ago, the WD My Book died, I RMA'd it. This is a portable HDD Laptop drives and especially portable drives have shorter lifespans because of their nature.

Now 9 months ago I bought a Refurbished HP Laptop.

A month and a half after I bought it the hard drive died, no boot disk error, and the drive wasn't recognized in the BIOS.

I popped the bottom off, and you guessed it, WD Scorpio Blue hard drive. This was used what was the usage hours via SMART?

HP replaced the drive under warranty with a new WD Scorpio Blue.

2 months after that, the drive died again, this time bad sectors. This might be luck of the draw but HPs have serious heat problems and it is a laptop HDD

Since the laptop was out of warranty HP wouldn't help me, so I put one of those Seagate SSHD drives in it, this is my first Seagate drive ever.

I've always been a WD man, and avoided Seagate because everyone always says Seagate is unreliable, and I remember seeing some study a few months back that proved this.

But honestly, at this point I was starting to get a little fed up with WD.

Finally, now this morning I booted my main PC, and the SMART warning came up about the RED drive! Probably what week is it?

Running HDTune on it now, but with SMART giving a warning I'm not hopeful for a clean scan.

I'm really starting to give up on WD!

The Seagate drive in my laptop has been awesome, and it actually did make the laptop noticeably more responsive compared to the WD Scorpio Blue drive the laptop came with.

So am I just running into a string of bad luck, or is WD drives really not as good as everyone says?:confused:

Personally I think this is a series of unfortunate events. but to be honest I don't think that any manufacturer is better than another. I personally like seagates and samsungs. but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to me. test it when it comes in if its legit I put it to use. If it fails i replace it under warranty or not. I came to the conclusion we will never again have 10GB IDE quantum fireballs that run for 70 years. As technology becomes more advanced failure rates go up in most cases I find this true and unfortunately I think hard drives are one of these items.
 
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I agree with Solaris. I've never had an issue like this but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I think most manufactures nowadays have the same failure rate which is low. The rumor that WD Green drives are bad is just that a rumor. 6 years ago this may have been true but not now
 

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Power Supply Corsair CXM500w // CM MWE 600w
Lots of talk about the avoiding the Green drives, I don't get it.

My Green drive lasted me the longest.

Earlier Greens had a bad habit of spinning up and down more often than they should (to save that extra watt of power). This resulted in early deaths of many a drive, and they (Greens/Eco/things like that) developed a very bad reputation. Perfectly fine nowadays (in fact IIRC they are the same as Red with different firmware).
 
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