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Intel rumoured to restore soldered heatspreaders in Haswell-E

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this will be great. at least for me i've never bothered to try de-lidding a cpu for better thermals.
 

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Let's hope so... the way they've been doing it hasn't been any good for anybody.
 
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All the previous -E versions have been soldered so this is nothing new.
 

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i havent delidded any CPU's in a long time, they should just sell an enthusiast version without the IHS to begin with, to cater to the extreme OC'ers
 

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i havent delidded any CPU's in a long time, they should just sell an enthusiast version without the IHS to begin with, to cater to the extreme OC'ers

+1

And solder at least the K series since they're unlocked and all and OC-ing is obvious.
 

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+1

And solder at least the K series since they're unlocked and all and OC-ing is obvious.


regular chips: paste
K chips: soldered
fancypants stuff like they anniversary edition: no or easily removed IHS (screw it on or something)
 
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I have to say I kind of enjoyed delidding my 3770K. Even if they use some solder or whatever, it would still be another layer of metal and stuff between the die and cooler.
 
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The real news in that image is that there's 12 cores on that die, and only 8 of them are activated.
 
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Thought we figured out the problem is the gap, not the interface? Maybe the solder makes the gap irrelevant because it's just that much better than TIM?
 
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It seems like there's still some misunderstanding about thermal transfer.

Let's look at thermal conductivity figures, measured in Watts per meter per degrees Kelvin (W/(m*K))
Copper 390
Air 0.024
Thermal Paste (low) 0.5
Thermal Paste (high) 10

The conclusion then is that a brick on copper a meter high will provide the same heat transfer resistance as a high quality thermal paste brick 2.56 cm high. Assuming the thermal paste is of low quality, you're looking at a millimeter of paste. The astute observer will also point out that the conductivity of air means that a hand full of micrometer of air provide the same heat transfer as that meter of copper. We'll address this shortly.

These figures make a few assumptions. First, they represent simple conductive heating, along a single axis. Next, they assume a mechanical bond between surfaces. Finally, the assumption is a uniform source of thermal energy.

We use thermal paste between heat spreaders and heat sinks because that second assumption breaks down. The difference between the surfaces mean that you've effectively only got heat transfer at a few points, and thus heat transfer is hindered. Even a relatively poor conductor of heat will dramatically boost the surface area for heat transfer, so thermal paste is a good idea. A better idea would be to lap both the heat spreader and heat sink, then melt a metal between them to form a complete mechanical bond (solder them). As heat sinks vary greatly, this isn't a practical. Even with a known die and heat spreader, the process of soldering is much more expensive than a thermal paste. Intel saved money by having a heat paste, but never decreased processor price. They are now going to charge more for heat paste using processors, because it's a "premium" addition.


Sorry, but none of this is news. It's Intel saving money, not passing on the savings, then charging more for what they used to do by default. I consider it an insult. Saying that soldering should demand a premium cost point is like saying that a brake pedal should be an add-on in a car. You could technically make the machine brake at all times the gas pedal is released, but that would produce a car that is far less effective for a minor decrease in component cost.
 
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I have to say I kind of enjoyed delidding my 3770K. Even if they use some solder or whatever, it would still be another layer of metal and stuff between the die and cooler.

I'm with you there, it's like gaming the system ;) The difference between stock TIM and delid/new TIM was 10c-20c.

I found that the difference between delidding, and putting new TIM on vs. going naked die was just about null. But I enjoyed the nakedness none the less.
 

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What are we talking about here? SB-E and IVB-E both had soldered IHS', why would Haswell-E be any different? It would be news is Broadwell will have a soldered IHS or if Haswell-E didn't, but this was expected as far as I'm concerned.
 
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It seems like there's still some misunderstanding about thermal transfer.

Let's look at thermal conductivity figures, measured in Watts per meter per degrees Kelvin (W/(m*K))
Copper 390
Air 0.024
Thermal Paste (low) 0.5
Thermal Paste (high) 10

The conclusion then is that a brick on copper a meter high will provide the same heat transfer resistance as a high quality thermal paste brick 2.56 cm high. Assuming the thermal paste is of low quality, you're looking at a millimeter of paste. The astute observer will also point out that the conductivity of air means that a hand full of micrometer of air provide the same heat transfer as that meter of copper. We'll address this shortly.

These figures make a few assumptions. First, they represent simple conductive heating, along a single axis. Next, they assume a mechanical bond between surfaces. Finally, the assumption is a uniform source of thermal energy.

We use thermal paste between heat spreaders and heat sinks because that second assumption breaks down. The difference between the surfaces mean that you've effectively only got heat transfer at a few points, and thus heat transfer is hindered. Even a relatively poor conductor of heat will dramatically boost the surface area for heat transfer, so thermal paste is a good idea. A better idea would be to lap both the heat spreader and heat sink, then melt a metal between them to form a complete mechanical bond (solder them). As heat sinks vary greatly, this isn't a practical. Even with a known die and heat spreader, the process of soldering is much more expensive than a thermal paste. Intel saved money by having a heat paste, but never decreased processor price. They are now going to charge more for heat paste using processors, because it's a "premium" addition.


Sorry, but none of this is news. It's Intel saving money, not passing on the savings, then charging more for what they used to do by default. I consider it an insult. Saying that soldering should demand a premium cost point is like saying that a brake pedal should be an add-on in a car. You could technically make the machine brake at all times the gas pedal is released, but that would produce a car that is far less effective for a minor decrease in component cost.

Hey that's kind of what my local Food Lion did with their nesquik! used to buy tons of bottles for resale for like $1.25ea, then they jumped the price to a whopping $1.69ea or 3/$5. Then a week later they stated "Sale on Nesquik!!!" at $1.39ea.

These companies change something just long enough for us to accept it as the norm, then go back(or close in my case) to their previous superior offer at a cost to us relative to the "new" norm. Trixy basterds
 
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Hey that's kind of what my local Food Lion did with their nesquik! used to buy tons of bottles for resale for like $1.25ea, then they jumped the price to a whopping $1.69ea or 3/$5. Then a week later they stated "Sale on Nesquik!!!" at $1.39ea.

These companies change something just long enough for us to accept it as the norm, then go back(or close in my case) to their previous superior offer at a cost to us relative to the "new" norm. Trixy basterds

Nesquick is an interesting point. If you want to have some fun start tracking the price of luxury goods (TVs, phones, etc...) in October. Wait until November, just before Black Friday. You'd be surprised how many items ratchet up their pricing, then go on sale for the price from October.


What are we talking about here? SB-E and IVB-E both had soldered IHS', why would Haswell-E be any different? It would be news is Broadwell will have a soldered IHS or if Haswell-E didn't, but this was expected as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not sure about other responders, but I was responding to the thermal paste situation in general. It's no surprise that Intel is doing it where they are doing it. Enthusiast processors, whether unique or just binned versions of their standard CPUs, are getting soldered lids as a matter of course. We are paying for this because the processor is marketed to enthusiasts, while the "mainstream" gets cheaper paste without reaping the cost savings.

I agree 100% that the enthusiast series will be soldered for the foreseeable future, as the thermal loading demands it. My apologies for offering what seems like a stupid response in retrospect.
 
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How are they calling it soldered when its clearly an epoxy type of Tim.
Thats not soldering. .
 
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i havent delidded any CPU's in a long time, they should just sell an enthusiast version without the IHS to begin with, to cater to the extreme OC'ers
could not agree more. i think all "k" versions should come with no IHS. and only need the metal part for the socket retention, with the die itself exposed
 

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I have to say I kind of enjoyed delidding my 3770K. Even if they use some solder or whatever, it would still be another layer of metal and stuff between the die and cooler.
So should I delid my 3770k? hardly looks easy. I am not upgrading for years yet and it would be nice to see lower than 85 @ 4.3.
 
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85C ??
pretty sure a 3770k's tjmax is lower than that, (or im thinking tcase, but pretty sure its a bit hotter than id be willing to run at there)
 
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85C ?? pretty sure a 3770k's tjmax is lower than that, (or im thinking tcase, but pretty sure its a bit hotter than id be willing to run at there)

A lot of people stress up to 90.
 

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they will, and have always been running solder on their enthusiast platform. (lga2011) Nothing is going to change. Its only their mainstream platform (lga1150) that went to TIM.
 
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So should I delid my 3770k? hardly looks easy. I am not upgrading for years yet and it would be nice to see lower than 85 @ 4.3.
Definitely. I am at 70°C running at 4.4GHz. And that's with Hyper 212 EVO, which is hardly a huge performance cooler.
 

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So should I delid my 3770k? hardly looks easy. I am not upgrading for years yet and it would be nice to see lower than 85 @ 4.3.

Its really easy, just use hammer and vice method. Takes all of 5 minutes.

 

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Benchmark Scores 11+12=19?
Definitely. I am at 70°C running at 4.4GHz. And that's with Hyper 212 EVO, which is hardly a huge performance cooler.

Its really easy, just use hammer and vice method. Takes all of 5 minutes.

Cool. Thanks. I'm on it. I wont hijack so maybe I will start a new thread with my results.
 
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