• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Even More GeForce GTX 980 and GM204 Specs Tumble Out

Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
1,298 (0.25/day)
Location
The Netherlands
System Name PC || Acer Nitro 5
Processor Ryzen 9 5900x || R5 2500U @ 35W
Motherboard MAG B550M MORTAR WIFI || default
Cooling 1x Corsair XR5 360mm Rad||
Memory 2x16GB HyperX 3600 @ 3800 || 2x8GB DDR4 @ 2400MTs
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080Ti Sea Hawk EK X || RX 560X
Storage Samsung 9801TB x2 + Striped Tiered Storage Space (2x 128Gb SSD + 2x 1TB HDD) || 128GB + 1TB SSD
Display(s) Iiyama PL2770QS + Samsung U28E590, || 15,6" 1080P IPS @ 100Hz Freesync enabled
Case SilverStone Alta G1M ||
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar DX
Power Supply Cooler Master V850 SFX || 135Watt 19V OEM adaptor
Mouse ROG Pugio II
Software Win 11 64bit || Win 11 64bit
Well if these specs, especially the TDP, appear to be correct at the friday launch, then I'll be quite impressed.
I never really took those efficiency diagrams Nvidia pushed out that serious as most of the marketing stuff is usually full of fluff, or obvious. This time however they seem to have pulled it off, without even using a die shrink. Awesome. Lets hope their competitor can pull off something similar for us all to enjoy.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
788 (0.17/day)
Processor Intel
Motherboard MSI
Cooling Cooler Master
Memory Corsair
Video Card(s) Nvidia
Storage Samsung/Western Digital/ADATA
Display(s) Samsung
Case Thermaltake
Audio Device(s) On Board
Power Supply Seasonic
Mouse A4TECH
Keyboard UniKey
Software Windows 10 x64
3-bit delta color compression technology

YAY more washed out textures... exVoodoo team at the helm lol...

Seriously, are the idiots? They are badly famous for their in inchip hardware crap dithering since Riva TNT times, in smaller scale they still cheat on that... I hate my nvidia cards for that. Noone says it is lossless... sigma delta modulations seldom are...

ROP are for 4K, that's natural as AMD has a advantage there, but weak bus will introduce serious problems with traditional anti aliasing, it may spank badly... they try to compensate it with high frequency specs, but you never can outmatch the hardware pipe wideness...

But still it will benchmark fast... but... real time scenarios... khem khem... we do like SSAA, do we? If using triple monitors it is still needed despite 4K render resolution...

Stop using placebo effect as major factor.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
1,662 (0.34/day)
Location
State College, PA, US
System Name My Surround PC
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D
Motherboard ASUS STRIX X670E-F
Cooling Swiftech MCP35X / EK Quantum CPU / Alphacool GPU / XSPC 480mm w/ Corsair Fans
Memory 96GB (2 x 48 GB) G.Skill DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Suprim X 24GB
Storage WD SN850 2TB, 2 x 512GB Samsung PM981a, 4 x 4TB HGST NAS HDD for Windows Storage Spaces
Display(s) 2 x Viotek GFI27QXA 27" 4K 120Hz + LG UH850 4K 60Hz + HMD
Case NZXT Source 530
Audio Device(s) Sony MDR-7506 / Logitech Z-5500 5.1
Power Supply Corsair RM1000x 1 kW
Mouse Patriot Viper V560
Keyboard Corsair K100
VR HMD HP Reverb G2
Software Windows 11 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores Mellanox ConnectX-3 10 Gb/s Fiber Network Card
According to the source the OP cited the GTX 980 will be launched this Friday.
I have trouble believing it will be released on a Friday. As a general rule of PR, you put out bad news on Fridays to minimize publicity since there is less chance of the press reporting on it over the weekend compared to a weekday. If you want to maximize publicity, you release on a Monday so that it shows up in the news the next day and throughout the week.
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
586 (0.16/day)
Processor AMD FX-8320
Motherboard AsRock 970 PRO3 R2.0
Cooling Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme + 2 LED Green fans
Memory 2 x 4096 MB DDR3-1333 A-Data
Video Card(s) SAPPHIRE 4096M R9 FURY X 4G D5
Storage ST1000VX000 • SV35.6 Series™ 1000 GB 7200 rpm
Display(s) Acer S277HK wmidpp 27" 4K (3840 x 2160) IPS
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus Black + Red Lights
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek
Power Supply OCZ ProXStream 1000W
Mouse Genius NetScroll 100X
Keyboard Logitech Wave
Software Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
I have trouble believing it will be released on a Friday. As a general rule of PR, you put out bad news on Fridays to minimize publicity since there is less chance of the press reporting on it over the weekend compared to a weekday. If you want to maximize publicity, you release on a Monday so that it shows up in the news the next day and throughout the week.

Not very nice psychology but... (psychology in general is a dirty wh**re, those who created men in this awful shape, need to go back to the drawing boards and create something better :( )

i have another logic... because Friday is the most waited day for many, perhaps their attitude would be much more welcome and they will accept the product more warmly thus this will ensure even better demand, etc. ;)
 

W1zzard

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
27,039 (3.71/day)
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Memory 48 GB
Video Card(s) RTX 4080
Storage 2x HDD RAID 1, 3x M.2 NVMe
Display(s) 30" 2560x1600 + 19" 1280x1024
Software Windows 10 64-bit
dropbox is one example that comes to mind. They use a "delta" api mostly to keep track of changes to files, but also to cut down on space and bandwidth usage. The api is even exposed to developers as a service.

Of course backup services use every trick in the book to save on space usage.

It could also be just jargon...
did a quick google search. looks like the transfer from your hdd to their server is done using delta compression, which makes sense to conserve bandwidth and increase throughput.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/...ment-delta-encoding-if-their-files-are-stored
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
47 (0.01/day)
Location
Austin, TX USA
System Name Game Bench
Processor 4.4 GHz Intel Core i7-5960X
Motherboard ASUS RAMPAGE V EXTREME LGA 2011-v3 X99
Cooling AIO Corsair
Memory 32GB (4 x 8GB) 3100 MHz ADATA XPG Z1 SDRAM DDR4 2400
Video Card(s) 1404 MHz 3x EVGA SC GTX 980
Storage 2x Crucial M500 240GB SSD RAID 0
Display(s) ASUS ROG SWIFT PG278Q
Case Aerocool Strike-X Air
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply CORSAIR AX1500i
Software Windows 8.1-64 Enterprise, Adobe CS6 Master Collection
Benchmark Scores FSE 15306 http://www.3dmark.com/fs/3406834
i have another logic... because Friday is the most waited day for many, perhaps their attitude would be much more welcome and they will accept the product more warmly thus this will ensure even better demand, etc. ;)

Maybe, there is no logic needed...It is not like people are lining up outside Best Buy to get a new video card. <--snarky voice

Yet. let me use logic. NVIDIA's first global gaming event, game24, starts Thursday, the 18th. I am no marketing expert, but I will bet a 3$ bill they planned the GTX900 series announcement for that event.
 
Last edited:

TheMailMan78

Big Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
22,599 (3.66/day)
Location
'Merica. The Great SOUTH!
System Name TheMailbox 5.0 / The Mailbox 4.5
Processor RYZEN 1700X / Intel i7 2600k @ 4.2GHz
Motherboard Fatal1ty X370 Gaming K4 / Gigabyte Z77X-UP5 TH Intel LGA 1155
Cooling MasterLiquid PRO 280 / Scythe Katana 4
Memory ADATA RGB 16GB DDR4 2666 16-16-16-39 / G.SKILL Sniper Series 16GB DDR3 1866: 9-9-9-24
Video Card(s) MSI 1080 "Duke" with 8Gb of RAM. Boost Clock 1847 MHz / ASUS 780ti
Storage 256Gb M4 SSD / 128Gb Agelity 4 SSD , 500Gb WD (7200)
Display(s) LG 29" Class 21:9 UltraWide® IPS LED Monitor 2560 x 1080 / Dell 27"
Case Cooler Master MASTERBOX 5t / Cooler Master 922 HAF
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220 Audio Codec / SupremeFX X-Fi with Bose Companion 2 speakers.
Power Supply Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series SSR-750PX 750W Platinum / SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold
Mouse SteelSeries Sensei (RAW) / Logitech G5
Keyboard Razer BlackWidow / Logitech (Unknown)
Software Windows 10 Pro (64-bit)
Benchmark Scores Benching is for bitches.
and then you wonder how Apple can make more money than God, sticking with the same name and a super simple number scheme ...
Super simple sells.........super simple and tits.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.60/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.
To be honest, i'm quite disappointed if the specs and prices are right.
I hoped for them to make a true step ahead in GTX 900 series. There were talkings about a 3200 core part, witch at the time seemed too good to be true.
I did not expect the GTX 970 part to contain a mare 1664 shader count, or the GTX 980 part to have 2048. This leaves plenty of room for them to milk 2304 and 2560 parts as-well. Especially considering the low TDP.
:(
If the full GM 204 die is 2048 cores, how do you expect a 2304 or 2560 part to eventuate?
Bear in mind that the GM 204 replaces the GK 104 (1536 shaders) in the vendors hierarchy, not the GK 110.
G80 -> GT200 -> GF100/110 -> GK110 -> GM 200
G92 -> M.I.A. -> GK104/114 -> GK104 -> GM204
New GPU in the same general performance range doesn't automatically mean it replaces the SKU's. I don't think anyone is expecting the fully enabled Tonga (285X) Volcanic Islands to replace the Hawaii (Sea Islands) GPU are they?
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
1,533 (0.42/day)
Location
Grunn
System Name Indis the Fair (cursed edition)
Processor 11900k 5.1/4.9 undervolted.
Motherboard MSI Z590 Unify-X
Cooling Heatkiller VI Pro, VPP755 V.3, XSPC TX360 slim radiator, 3xA12x25, 4x Arctic P14 case fans
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x16GB 4000 16-19-19 (b-die@3600 14-14-14 1.45v)
Video Card(s) EVGA 2080 Super Hybrid (T30-120 fan)
Storage 970EVO 1TB, 660p 1TB, WD Blue 3D 1TB, Sandisk Ultra 3D 2TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2546K, Dell P2417H
Case FD Define 7
Audio Device(s) DT770 Pro, Topping A50, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Røde VXLR+, Modmic 5
Power Supply Seasonic 860w Platinum
Mouse Razer Viper Mini, Odin Infinity mousepad
Keyboard GMMK Fullsize v2 (Boba U4Ts)
Software Win10 x64/Win7 x64/Ubuntu
That is one heck of a boost frequency and ram speed!
Should hope so... 28nm has been around for a really long time now.

What I'm interested is if they have actually been able to improve the voltage and thermal capabilities of the architecture, in that case, these low power density chips will really be able to take advantage of higher current VRM solutions.
 
Joined
Apr 16, 2010
Messages
2,067 (0.40/day)
System Name The Stone that the Builders Refused / iJayo
Processor R5 1600/ R7 3700X
Motherboard Asrock AB350 Pro4 / Asus Rog Strix B450-F gaming
Cooling Cryorig M9 / Noctua NH-D14
Memory G skill 16 Gigs ddr4 / 16 gigs PNY ddr4
Video Card(s) Nvdia GTX 660 / Nvidia RTX 2070 Super
Storage 120gig 840 evo, 120gig adata sp900 / 1tb Mushkin M.2 ssd 1 & 3 tb seagate hdd, 120 gig Hyper X ssd
Display(s) 42" Nec retail display monitor/ 34" Dell curved 165hz monitor
Case Pink Enermax Ostrog / Phanteks Enthoo Evolv Tempered Glass edition
Audio Device(s) Altec Lansing Expressionist Bass/ M-Audio monitors
Power Supply Corsair450 / Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 650
Mouse corsair vengence M65 / Zalman Knossos
Keyboard corsair k95 / Roccat Vulcan 121
Software Window 10 pro / Windows 10 pro
Benchmark Scores meh... feel me on the battle field!
I have trouble believing it will be released on a Friday. As a general rule of PR, you put out bad news on Fridays to minimize publicity since there is less chance of the press reporting on it over the weekend compared to a weekday. If you want to maximize publicity, you release on a Monday so that it shows up in the news the next day and throughout the week.

...Friday is also PAYDAY:peace: for most of the known world.........ok maybe just America
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
1,533 (0.42/day)
Location
Grunn
System Name Indis the Fair (cursed edition)
Processor 11900k 5.1/4.9 undervolted.
Motherboard MSI Z590 Unify-X
Cooling Heatkiller VI Pro, VPP755 V.3, XSPC TX360 slim radiator, 3xA12x25, 4x Arctic P14 case fans
Memory G.Skill Ripjaws V 2x16GB 4000 16-19-19 (b-die@3600 14-14-14 1.45v)
Video Card(s) EVGA 2080 Super Hybrid (T30-120 fan)
Storage 970EVO 1TB, 660p 1TB, WD Blue 3D 1TB, Sandisk Ultra 3D 2TB
Display(s) BenQ XL2546K, Dell P2417H
Case FD Define 7
Audio Device(s) DT770 Pro, Topping A50, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Røde VXLR+, Modmic 5
Power Supply Seasonic 860w Platinum
Mouse Razer Viper Mini, Odin Infinity mousepad
Keyboard GMMK Fullsize v2 (Boba U4Ts)
Software Win10 x64/Win7 x64/Ubuntu
...Friday is also PAYDAY:peace: for most of the known world.........ok maybe just America
I think it is over here in the UK too, my history teacher keeps reminding us that it's payday some time soon (I never listen)
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
1,926 (0.46/day)
Location
UK
System Name TITAN Slayer / CPUCannon / MassFX
Processor i7 5960X @ 4.6Ghz / i7 3960x @5.0Ghz / FX6350 @ 4.?Ghz
Motherboard Rampage V Extreme / Rampage IV Extreme / MSI 970 Gaming
Cooling Phanteks PHTC14PE 2.5K 145mm TRs / Custom waterloop / Phanteks PHTC14PE + 3K 140mm Noctuas
Memory Crucial 2666 11-13-13-25 1.45V / G.skill RipjawsX 2400 10-12-12-34 1.7V / Crucial 2133 9-9-9-27 1.7V
Video Card(s) 3 Fury X in CF / R9 Fury 3840 cores 1145/570 1.3V / Nothing ATM
Storage 500GB Crucial SSD and 3TB WD Black / WD 1TB Black(OS) + WD 3TB Green / WD 1TB Blue
Display(s) LG 29UM67 80Hz/Asus mx299q 2560x1080 @ 84Hz / Asus VX239 1920x1080 @60hz
Case Dismatech easy v3.0 / Xigmatek Alfar (Open side panel)
Audio Device(s) M-audio M-track / realtek ALC 1150
Power Supply EVGA G2 1600W / CoolerMaster V1000 / Seasonic 620 M12-II
Mouse Mouse in review process/Razer Naga Epic 2011/Razer Naga 2014
Keyboard Keyboard in review process / Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2014/Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2011
Software Windows 7 Ultimate / Windows 7 ultimate / Windows 7 ultimate
Benchmark Scores cinebench 15.41 3960x @ 5.3ghz Wprime32m 3.352 3960x @ 5.25ghz Super PI 32m: 6m 42s 472ms @5.25ghz
If the full GM 204 die is 2048 cores, how do you expect a 2304 or 2560 part to eventuate?
Bear in mind that the GM 204 replaces the GK 104 (1536 shaders) in the vendors hierarchy, not the GK 110.
G80 -> GT200 -> GF100/110 -> GK110 -> GM 200
G92 -> M.I.A. -> GK104/114 -> GK104 -> GM204
New GPU in the same general performance range doesn't automatically mean it replaces the SKU's. I don't think anyone is expecting the fully enabled Tonga (285X) Volcanic Islands to replace the Hawaii (Sea Islands) GPU are they?
The 285 and 285X are both smaller numbers than 290 and 290X. The 980 is a bigger number than the 780 Ti and slightly slower which is misleading because in the past the bigger number was always better.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.60/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.
I have trouble believing it will be released on a Friday. As a general rule of PR, you put out bad news on Fridays to minimize publicity since there is less chance of the press reporting on it over the weekend compared to a weekday. If you want to maximize publicity, you release on a Monday so that it shows up in the news the next day and throughout the week.
I'll buy that. I was under the impression that the reveal (announcement) was the 18th/19th, but cards wouldn't straight away - likely at the beginning of a week as you said. I'm guessing W1zzards "thanks" on your post backs up that assertion also, as would a Mon-Tues launch day if some of the scores leaking out are any indication.
The 285 and 285X are both smaller numbers than 290 and 290X. The 980 is a bigger number than the 780 Ti and slightly slower which is misleading because in the past the bigger number was always better.
Firstly, the GTX 680 (second tier GPU) outperformed the GTX 580 (top tier GPU). Precedent...as is the reverse (GTX 650 Ti Boost outperforming the GTX 750 TI) The naming conventions don't always make logical sense for either company since the HD 6870 also fell short of the HD 5870 - and yes I'm aware that AMD shifted their numerical naming convention up one sequence for N.I. but it still doesn't alter the "one number is bigger than the other" argument you're making.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
586 (0.16/day)
Processor AMD FX-8320
Motherboard AsRock 970 PRO3 R2.0
Cooling Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme + 2 LED Green fans
Memory 2 x 4096 MB DDR3-1333 A-Data
Video Card(s) SAPPHIRE 4096M R9 FURY X 4G D5
Storage ST1000VX000 • SV35.6 Series™ 1000 GB 7200 rpm
Display(s) Acer S277HK wmidpp 27" 4K (3840 x 2160) IPS
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus Black + Red Lights
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek
Power Supply OCZ ProXStream 1000W
Mouse Genius NetScroll 100X
Keyboard Logitech Wave
Software Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
Firstly, the GTX 680 (second tier GPU) outperformed the GTX 580 (top tier GPU). Precedent...as is the reverse (GTX 650 Ti Boost outperforming the GTX 750 TI) The naming conventions don't always make logical sense for either company since the HD 6870 also fell short of the HD 5870 - and yes I'm aware that AMD shifted their numerical naming convention up one sequence for N.I. but it still doesn't alter the "one number is bigger than the other" argument you're making.

You are messing very annoyingly, as the guys from nvidia do, it's simply their greed and marketing frauds doing this. It is a new generation of video cards, 700 series was a thing of the past, now there is a new one, and of course, they even skipped the 800 series.

It is almost like rebranding. Very very bad and misleading. One needs to monitor very closely not to be misled by these numbering shenanigans.

Until very recently, everything with numbers was ok, now it came as a dirty idea in their minds. Wondering why they waste their times and don't think of something better.

In an ideal, honest and good world, these GM204 would be put in GTX 860 Ti, 860, etc. But no, it is in 980 and 970.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
5,384 (1.08/day)
If the full GM 204 die is 2048 cores, how do you expect a 2304 or 2560 part to eventuate?
Bear in mind that the GM 204 replaces the GK 104 (1536 shaders) in the vendors hierarchy, not the GK 110.
G80 -> GT200 -> GF100/110 -> GK110 -> GM 200
G92 -> M.I.A. -> GK104/114 -> GK104 -> GM204
New GPU in the same general performance range doesn't automatically mean it replaces the SKU's. I don't think anyone is expecting the fully enabled Tonga (285X) Volcanic Islands to replace the Hawaii (Sea Islands) GPU are they?

That's exactly the problem. That they decided that the GM204 would be a 2048 core, 180W part. I expected a bit more than that. It's not like they said "there's nothing we can do about it, it must be a 2048 core part", they could design it to be a bit more beefier.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.60/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.
You are messing very annoyingly
Sorry if the facts get in the way of your imaginary world. If you're more keen on making this a personal thing rather than a factual thing we can go that way, no problem.
as the guys from nvidia do, it's simply their greed and marketing frauds doing this. It is a new generation of video cards, 700 series was a thing of the past, now there is a new one, and of course, they even skipped the 800 series.
1. I think you'll find that the 800 series are alive and well as mobile MXM's
2. The 700 series were a mix or architectures (Fermi and Kepler). The R5/R7/R9 series from AMD is also a mix of architectures - not just Volcanic Islands and Southern Islands but the 4.5 year old Evergreen series and the 3.5 year old Northern Islands - yet Nvidia are greedy and marketing frauds and you've never said a word against AMD's conglomeration of architectures or their "skipping" of the HD 8000 series. Quite an oversight
It is almost like rebranding. Very very bad and misleading. One needs to monitor very closely not to be misled by these numbering shenanigans.
Yet you choose to overlook AMD's rebranding. Is rebranding suddenly gaining importance for you personally over the last few months?......this is shades of your diatribe regarding the importance of double precision which suddenly became disinterest when AMD cut the rate from 1:4 in Tahiti to 1:16 in Tonga.
Until very recently, everything with numbers was ok, now it came as a dirty idea in their minds. Wondering why they waste their times and don't think of something better.
The consumer doesn't win in any event. What is the difference between a whole new naming nomenclature with the same silicon ( 9800GTX+ -> GTS 250, HD 7970 -> R9 280X) or an incremental change in numbers? There is no substitute for doing your homework before making a purchase, and there certainly isn't any truth to the rumour that marketing is designed to make the facts crystal clear to the consumer.
That's exactly the problem. That they decided that the GM204 would be a 2048 core, 180W part. I expected a bit more than that. It's not like they said "there's nothing we can do about it, it must be a 2048 core part", they could design it to be a bit more beefier.
Probably reflects the economics of the time. Discrete graphics card sales are down, and process costs will go up. It seems likely that Maxwell (and AMD's Tonga etc) will both be die shrunk on TSMC's 16nmFF process, so getting the highest performance for the yield without pricing themselves out of the market will be the order of the day.
Large dies tend to pay for themselves through professional board sales, but that is a finite market so it becomes very unproductive to apply a large GPU down the consumer product stack.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
586 (0.16/day)
Processor AMD FX-8320
Motherboard AsRock 970 PRO3 R2.0
Cooling Thermalright Ultra120 eXtreme + 2 LED Green fans
Memory 2 x 4096 MB DDR3-1333 A-Data
Video Card(s) SAPPHIRE 4096M R9 FURY X 4G D5
Storage ST1000VX000 • SV35.6 Series™ 1000 GB 7200 rpm
Display(s) Acer S277HK wmidpp 27" 4K (3840 x 2160) IPS
Case Cooler Master HAF 912 Plus Black + Red Lights
Audio Device(s) Onboard Realtek
Power Supply OCZ ProXStream 1000W
Mouse Genius NetScroll 100X
Keyboard Logitech Wave
Software Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit
It seems likely that Maxwell (and AMD's Tonga etc) will both be die shrunk on TSMC's 16nmFF process

I hope you are wrong and AMD actually go to 20 nm first as soon as possible. nvidia can follow afterwards with 16 nm.

The consumer doesn't win in any event.

Sure, companies always tend to give customers the smallest possible sellable quantity and quality.
And they are very stupid for doing so.
First because actually not their employees but the customers are their greatest asset, and second, because they can up the quality of what they offer to the maximum so customers are not forced to buy the product and at the same time to curse the company for the price.

When giving higher quality, they will still improve over generations, and will look better in our eyes. The standard itself will be higher.

Discrete graphics card sales are down

Normal, how do you expect sales to climb after what I'm telling you. Customers are not happy and it will get worse.

nvidia will go blindly in their way because they say so. :rolleyes:

Do you think that customers will not buy with the same 'success' a $599.99 GTX 860 Ti compared to the same $599.99 GTX 980? :D
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.60/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.
First because actually not their employees but the customers are their greatest asset, and second, because they can up the quality of what they offer to the maximum so customers are not forced to buy the product and at the same time to curse the company for the price.
When giving higher quality, they will still improve over generations, and will look better in our eyes. The standard itself will be higher.
Discrete boards sold to enthusiasts are a drop in the bucket. The vast majority of sales are to OEMs who pretty much demand a new product every holiday season, and the people who buy an OEM system are more often than not buying a whole system rather than a mix and match set of components.
Theoretically, both companies could put out their most cutting edge products - but once you start, ANY slip in timetable brings criticism, and ANY part failing to measure up to any perceived metric previously reached will start getting the haters out in force. 4K is barely relevant as a statistic in usage, yet a significant portion of forum users across the net are whining and moaning about the lack of 5K and 8K support.
Give the consumer what they want and they just want more, and as for tech "enthusiasts", I've yet to meet any significant number that are content with ANY aspect of technology. You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger bunch of self entitled ramblers anywhere. Give people a 150W card that does the job of a 250W card from the previous generation and they'll whine that it should be sub-30W and passive, give people HDMI 2.0 and they'll whine about (possibly) no DisplayPort 1.3 connectivity... or the card not being single slot, not shiny enough, not the right colour, not quiet enough, not cool enough, too big, too small (Hey! that doesn't look like a premium card!), not enough accessories they'll never use anyway - the list is endless. Like it or not, multi-billion dollar companies don't cater to a miniscule percentage of the market, especially one that will never be satisfied. You could provide a card that is butter smooth on a demanding title at 4K with 8 x SSAA/DoF/motion blur/HDAO applied, and the first thing out of a lot of peoples mouths would be a complaint that the company had previously been holding back, or the driver package is too large, or the software utilities aren't meaningful enough, or most likely - that the company cheated you because you can't push 2 volts through it. :laugh:

It's been this way for a while. The number of people of confuse "tech enthusiast" with "hyper-critical user with unrealistic expectations" seems to grow larger every product cycle. Intel could no doubt transform their 18-core E5-2699v3 into a desktop part, but how would they continue to keep topping something like that? The moment they slip up and "only" produce a 30-core next time around you have a bunch of people complaining because the rate of progress isn't to their satisfaction - basically back to square one. Sometimes, you just have to apply real world values rather than a wish list - businesses are about sustainability. and they'd soon go out of business if they had to come up with a new process node every year and offer cards for relative peanuts when they have to fork out $7+K per wafer.
Normal, how do you expect sales to climb after what I'm telling you. Customers are not happy and it will get worse.
The major reason discrete board sales are down is because of iGP's. Not everyone games, and of those who do, a fair percentage are casual or playing some inane flash PoS. Once upon a time integrated graphics were just a method for OEMs to cheap out on finding away to display video. That isn't really the case anymore when the vast majority of desktop processors include graphics - that is why sales are falling.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
5,061 (0.92/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 7600
Motherboard Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE
Memory Kingston Fury Beast DDR5-5600 16GBx2
Video Card(s) Gigabyte Gaming OC AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT 16GB
Storage TEAMGROUP T-Force Z440 2TB, SPower A60 2TB, SPower A55 2TB, Seagate 4TBx2, Samsung 870 2TB
Display(s) AOC 24G2 + Xitrix WFP-2415
Case Montech Air X
Audio Device(s) Realtek onboard
Power Supply Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 FM 750W 80+ Gold
Mouse Logitech G304
Keyboard Redragon K557 KAIA RGB Mechanical Keyboard
Software Windows 10
Nvidia is hosting Game24 on Sept. 18. Having an announcement after it (i.e. Friday) is not some sort of "damage control" measure.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
2,785 (0.60/day)
Location
New Zealand
System Name MoneySink
Processor 2600K @ 4.8
Motherboard P8Z77-V
Cooling AC NexXxos XT45 360, RayStorm, D5T+XSPC tank, Tygon R-3603, Bitspower
Memory 16GB Crucial Ballistix DDR3-1600C8
Video Card(s) GTX 780 SLI (EVGA SC ACX + Giga GHz Ed.)
Storage Kingston HyperX SSD (128) OS, WD RE4 (1TB), RE2 (1TB), Cav. Black (2 x 500GB), Red (4TB)
Display(s) Achieva Shimian QH270-IPSMS (2560x1440) S-IPS
Case NZXT Switch 810
Audio Device(s) onboard Realtek yawn edition
Power Supply Seasonic X-1050
Software Win8.1 Pro
Benchmark Scores 3.5 litres of Pale Ale in 18 minutes.

cadaveca

My name is Dave
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
17,232 (2.62/day)
After Nvidia was hyping Volta as the next big thing earlier this year, I think it's not that prudent to expect too much out of NVidia GPUs until then. More power savings, and thereby lower cost of ownership, while maintaining decent performance for the same dollar, while increasing profitability, seems like one of the most excellent business maneuvers ever. It's hard to pull off that many successes all at the same time for any other company...

It's not like we have games or anything that really truly requires more, consoles are stagnant for a few years, and the only thing that can push GPU needs in the consumer market is higher-resolution monitors, and 3k/4k monitors have yet to gain traction. Looking at this from a business perspective, it's pretty exciting.
 

rtwjunkie

PC Gaming Enthusiast
Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
13,909 (2.42/day)
Location
Louisiana -Laissez les bons temps rouler!
System Name Bayou Phantom
Processor Core i7-8700k 4.4Ghz @ 1.18v
Motherboard ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 6
Cooling All air: 2x140mm Fractal exhaust; 3x 140mm Cougar Intake; Enermax T40F Black CPU cooler
Memory 2x 16GB Mushkin Redline DDR-4 3200
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Xc
Storage 1x 500 MX500 SSD; 2x 6TB WD Black; 1x 4TB WD Black; 1x400GB VelRptr; 1x 4TB WD Blue storage (eSATA)
Display(s) HP 27q 27" IPS @ 2560 x 1440
Case Fractal Design Define R4 Black w/Titanium front -windowed
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster Z
Power Supply Seasonic X-850
Mouse Coolermaster Sentinel III (large palm grip!)
Keyboard Logitech G610 Orion mechanical (Cherry Brown switches)
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (Start10 & Fences 3.0 installed)
The major reason discrete board sales are down is because of iGP's. Not everyone games, and of those who do, a fair percentage are casual or playing some inane flash PoS. Once upon a time integrated graphics were just a method for OEMs to cheap out on finding away to display video. That sn't really the case anymore when the vast majority of desktop processors include graphics - that is why sales are falling.

Yep, I foresee the day eventually when there are no more discrete graphics cards...I can only hope it will be because the Intel and AMD have come up with the graphics processing power we have in discrete cards now and beyond, and not because we've been forced to settle for cheap, browser based flash games. But definitely, the low end, where the majority of GPU sales were, has almost been negated.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
4,180 (1.15/day)
Location
Texas
System Name SnowFire / The Reinforcer
Processor i7 10700K 5.1ghz (24/7) / 2x Xeon E52650v2
Motherboard Asus Strix Z490 / Dell Dual Socket (R720)
Cooling RX 360mm + 140mm Custom Loop / Dell Stock
Memory Corsair RGB 16gb DDR4 3000 CL 16 / DDR3 128gb 16 x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX Titan XP (2025mhz) / Asus GTX 950 (No Power Connector)
Storage Samsung 970 1tb NVME and 2tb HDD x4 RAID 5 / 300gb x8 RAID 5
Display(s) Acer XG270HU, Samsung G7 Odyssey (1440p 240hz)
Case Thermaltake Cube / Dell Poweredge R720 Rack Mount Case
Audio Device(s) Realtec ALC1150 (On board)
Power Supply Rosewill Lightning 1300Watt / Dell Stock 750 / Brick
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G19S
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows Server 2016
After Nvidia was hyping Volta as the next big thing earlier this year, I think it's not that prudent to expect too much out of NVidia GPUs until then. More power savings, and thereby lower cost of ownership, while maintaining decent performance for the same dollar, while increasing profitability, seems like one of the most excellent business maneuvers ever. It's hard to pull off that many successes all at the same time for any other company...

It's not like we have games or anything that really truly requires more, consoles are stagnant for a few years, and the only thing that can push GPU needs in the consumer market is higher-resolution monitors, and 3k/4k monitors have yet to gain traction. Looking at this from a business perspective, it's pretty exciting.
Yea it seems to be that way, but I still believe the next gen should at least be superior to the parts it replaces which I am still hoping it will be. I guess the point of Maxwell is exactly what they put as the focus which is lower power. But I will say Cadaveca you have not yet seen Ryse being design for 4k ;)

I'm still waiting for motherboards to be focused on socketed GPUs, and for CPUs to be add-in.
On that day I think I will have to laugh when I think back at this conversation.
 
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
56 (0.01/day)
Indeed, this is a great conversation! My take is that I won't any better off in replacing my 780Ti with a 980. Since I'm extremely happy with my 780Ti there's no good reason to replace it.
 
Top