Ebola and you!

[TheMailMan78]

I've been reading the CDC report on Ebola for the last week or so off and on. I started after learning of the aid station assault were the locals "freed" patient's with advanced stage infection and looted bloody mattresses. Then today I read locals have killed 8 Ebola aid workers and dumped their bodies in a ditch.

Now I'm a pretty moral guy. Believe it or not I try and take the high road when I can. HOWEVER I'm starting to wonder when we draw the line with humanitarian efforts. When does the stupidity of the few become a legitimate concern for the rest of the world. After reading the CDC report I honestly think nukes shouldn't be off the table.

Meh.....that reaction might be as dumb a looting bloody Ebola mattresses so I am posing the question to more informed TPU members. How should the threat be tackled? The CDC is REALLY concerned about this and honestly we are historically over due for a natural plague.

Also please reply with scientific backing and legitimate posts. This is the Science and Technology forum. Not GN.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Let's hope the tests of a possible cure go well, start maybe going church (which ever one you like) and I personally will be staying mostly in my room for the next few months.
I can't believe how stupid those idiots where and as for the Murders id certainly consider a few apaches but a nukes a bit extreme imho

 

[FordGT90Concept]

 

[TheMailMan78]

Let's hope the tests of a possible cure go well, start maybe going church (which ever one you like) and I personally will be staying mostly in my room for the next few months.
I can't believe how stupid those idiots where and as for the Murders id certainly consider a few apaches but a nukes a bit extreme imho

I wasn't saying nukes as a reaponse for the murders. I was saying turn west Africa into glass because of the virus and the locals seem to wish to infect the world because they refuse to stop eating bush meat and get treated. I understand these people are uneducated but, their lack of education could kill off half the world. When do we draw the line? When does it become us or them AND is there a hope of a vaccine? This is a virus after all. There will never be a "cure".

 

[SaltyFish]

You could apply something similar to endangered species. Should they be helped out, or should nature be allowed to run it course on them?

Playing humanitarian/morally superior being (for a given value of "morals")/whatever requires, by it very nature, an expenditure of resources that could've gone towards more practical ends.

As for the plague part, that's quite inevitable due to microbial pathogens evolving defenses faster than humans can find new ways to kill them. Amusing how many things we so easily wipe out inadvertently yet when it comes to the stuff we really want dead, our track record isn't as good.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Ah I get you Mm, I think that's a bit much though still , the capitalist world should completely ban flights and boats from there right now though but that's not going to happen eh

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

I wasn't saying nukes as a reaponse for the murders. I was saying turn west Africa into glass because of the virus and the locals seem to wish to infect the world because they refuse to stop eating bush meat and get treated. I understand these people are uneducated but, their lack of education could kill off half the world. When do we draw the line? When does it become us or them AND is there a hope of a vaccine? This is a virus after all. There will never be a "cure".

I'm reminded of the Guinea Worm eradication effort spear-headed by Carter.

It took the aide workers a huge amount of time just to get people to understand that it wasn't a curse or magic. Africa is seriously backwards, and there are concerted efforts for their people to go through some more genocides in the near future.


I'm not sure it's worth helping the Middle East, and I'm not sure if helping Africa is possible. At the same time, the effort to make other people understand how much of a wasted effort it is tires me.

 

[TheMailMan78]

I'm reminded of the Guinea Worm eradication effort spear-headed by Carter.

It took the aide workers a huge amount of time just to get people to understand that it wasn't a curse or magic. Africa is seriously backwards, and there are concerted efforts for their people to go through some more genocides in the near future.


I'm not sure it's worth helping the Middle East, and I'm not sure if helping Africa is possible. At the same time, the effort to make other people understand how much of a wasted effort it is tires me.

I can't argue that. However that stupidity (theirs not yours) could effect everyone on the planet at this point and its getting worse. My question is what is the hope and where do we draw the line? Seriously is there some kind of scientific reasoning or guideline for this? I REALLY hate to use the term "final solution" but I'm wondering about an end game here when it comes to Ebola spreading past west Africa.

If this thing hits India or China you will see a LOT more killed and it controlled in ways that are less than "moral". Not by choice mind you, but of necessity. Both nations will do what it takes to contain the spread in their boarders the worlds opinion be dammed. I'm starting to think we (the world) should cut its losses now before its to late.

People will be outraged of course. Outraged but alive. CDC really doesn't have an game finisher according to their studies. Think about that.

 

[erocker]

Thank God we have an internet forum to solve this problem known as ebola! Let's get over to Africa guns a blazin!!

*Might be a legitimate post to some.

 

[64K]

I wasn't saying nukes as a reaponse for the murders. I was saying turn west Africa into glass because of the virus and the locals seem to wish to infect the world because they refuse to stop eating bush meat and get treated. I understand these people are uneducated but, their lack of education could kill off half the world. When do we draw the line? When does it become us or them AND is there a hope of a vaccine? This is a virus after all. There will never be a "cure".

Putting morality aside for the moment. Wouldn't the required number of nukes to destroy all life on a continent the size of Africa be problematic to the rest of humanity due to the spread of nuclear fallout into the oceans and carried in the atmosphere to perhaps every other country as well? Also what would Russia do if we released that many nukes so close to them?

 

[Sasqui]

If we had a massive plague here in the US, I don't think the situation would be much better. Though we have a much better infrastructure, it would be overwhelmed and fall apart over time, leading to terror, mayhem, violence and a breakdown of society. Fear is one of humanities greatest motivators (that and greed).

Call me cynical.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Putting morality aside for the moment. Wouldn't the required number of nukes to destroy all life on a continent the size of Africa be problematic to the rest of humanity due to the spread of nuclear fallout into the oceans and carried in the atmosphere to perhaps every other country as well? Also what would Russia do if we released that many nukes so close to them?

First off we wouldn't need to hit the entire continent. Just the high risk areas. I suspect once a few cities become holes in the ground people will fall in line. Second I'm not calling for hydrogen bombs on the front of an ICBM. I'm talking about small scale tactical strikes that do not have 10,000 year half life's. As for Russia I don't think it would take much for them to get on board with the bombings. After all its going to hit Moscow before it hits the US.

If we had a massive plague here in the US, I don't think the situation would be much better. Though we have a much better infrastructure, it would be overwhelmed and fall apart over time, leading to terror, mayhem, violence and a breakdown of society. Fear is one of humanities greatest motivators (that and greed).
Call me cynical.

That's why it has to be stopped now.

Thank God we have an internet forum to solve this problem known as ebola! Let's get over to Africa guns a blazin!!
*Might be a legitimate post to some.

I'm sure if Ebola needs an infraction the CDC will have you on speed dial.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

It's called humanitarian aid for a reason and it's not based on any scientific principle mearly ta stance of We can and should be helping our fellow humans.
I think if you're going to throw the Africans to the wolves so to speak , could it also be argued that cancer research is a waste of time and money, yes it might save people but does this overpopulated globe really need more pensioner's and mouth's to feed, it's odd because I have family that's been kicked by the big C and I have folded for years at one point but I have pondered , , is it a reasonable and justified stance to allow some to pass on with little help or meds given the impending resource issues? ?

 

[TheMailMan78]

It's called humanitarian aid for a reason and it's not based on any scientific principle mearly ta stance of We can and should be helping our fellow humans.
I think if you're going to throw the Africans to the wolves so to speak , could it also be argued that cancer research is a waste of time and money, yes it might save people but does this overpopulated globe really need more pensioner's and mouth's to feed, it's odd because I have family that's been kicked by the big C and I have folded for years at one point but I have pondered , , is it a reasonable and justified stance to allow some to pass on with little help or meds given the impending resource issues? ?

Cancer is not transmittable and people who contract cancer don't attack their doctors. They tend to want to be treated and live so your analogy doesn't apply here.

I am all for helping people. My church has done tons of missions to east and central Africa to teach people how to properly do irrigation and I am in no way advocating genocide. What I am saying is this virus is spreading due to an ignorance that cannot be tamed and no matter how much money they dump into the region its spreading. How can you help people that do not want help? Normally you would let nature take its course but if we do that WE ALL could die.

Seriously I haven't read a single shred of evidence from TPU that refutes what I'm saying......I really want to be wrong on this also.

 

[Sasqui]

Too late: http://www.wwltv.com/story/news/loc...to-board-ship-docking-in-no-tonight/15791245/

They say it's malaria, which mimics the first symptoms of Ebola.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

We just need to completely block them. Shut down all access into/out of the country. Any aircraft leaving gets shot down, any boat gets sunk. The virus will run its course when there is nothing left to infect. This way we aren't responsible for directly solving/killing people and let the virus do all the work.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

To MM,,And I did say earlier, the capitalist world is still sending boats and plains to and from there so your iphone can be made etc sorry android you aren't a sheep after all simply cut unnecessary travel there might help but that costs so its a no go much like you're idea , whos going to provide the gallium , platinum etc for our ego massaging I7 gaming box's eh.

 

[TheMailMan78]

And I did say earlier, the capitalist world is still sending boats and plains to and from there so your iphone can be made etc sorry android you aren't a sheep after all simply cut unnecessary travel there might help but that costs so its a no go much like you're idea , whos going to provide the gallium , platinum etc for our ego massaging I7 gaming box's eh.

I have a Nokia with Windows sir. And yeah we need to cut off everyone in and out.

 

[64K]

First off we wouldn't need to hit the entire continent. Just the high risk areas.

I don't think that would do it. According to the WHO Ebola originally started in Central Africa so it would take a lot more than just targeting West Africa if you didn't want it to start up all over again.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

"The first EVD outbreaks occurred in remote villages in Central Africa, near tropical rainforests"

Also from what I understand Ebola isn't airborne. It can only be spread through blood and bodily fluids. If a lot of cases started showing up in the US people could take reasonable precautions and avoid infection.

 

[Divide Overflow]

If that is the way they want to handle things over there, we should impose a full travel and trade embargo. Isolate them and leave them to deal with things themselves as they prefer. Plus, it helps to restrict the spread of the disease elsewhere.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Tatty's 10 point plan........

1. UN mobilise....... 500,000 troops required.
2. Quarantine Africa, close all ports and airports throughout the continent, no one goes in, no one goes out, get support from non infected nations or do it forcibly, possibly use the opportunity to get rid of a couple of dictators whilst we are at it
3. Close all internal borders within Africa.
4. Defend those borders around countries that so far do not have the disease, use their troops also.
5. Set up huge "Super" Field Hospitals within the 4 or 5 countries affected so far with isolation blocks
6. Guard said Field Hospitals
7. Allow population to filter to hospitals through guarded "safe routes"
8. Treat the disease "on site", restricted all movement outside of safe routes
9. Beat the disease, continue research and tests
10. Cure the disease and burn everything in sight!

Sprinkle lightly with a "pinch of salt"

 

[TheMailMan78]

Tatty's 10 point plan........

1. UN mobilise....... 500,000 troops required.
2. Quarantine Africa, close all ports and airports throughout the continent, no one goes in, no one goes out, get support from non infected nations or do it forcibly, possibly use the opportunity to get rid of a couple of dictators whilst we are at it
3. Close all internal borders within Africa.
4. Defend those borders around countries that so far do not have the disease, use their troops also.
5. Set up huge "Super" Field Hospitals within the 4 or 5 countries affected so far with isolation blocks
6. Guard said Field Hospitals
7. Allow population to filter to hospitals through guarded "safe routes"
8. Treat the disease "on site", restricted all movement outside of safe routes
9. Beat the disease, continue research and tests
10. Cure the disease and burn everything in sight!

Sprinkle lightly with a "pinch of salt"

That solution is way to British.

Joking aside that would cause a blood bath. Some of those dictators would rather spread Ebola than give up power. I think it would have the opposite effect than wanted.

I don't think that would do it. According to the WHO Ebola originally started in Central Africa so it would take a lot more than just targeting West Africa if you didn't want it to start up all over again.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/
"The first EVD outbreaks occurred in remote villages in Central Africa, near tropical rainforests"
Also from what I understand Ebola isn't airborne. It can only be spread through blood and bodily fluids. If a lot of cases started showing up in the US people could take reasonable precautions and avoid infection.

The difference is Central Africa was willing to seek treatment. In all honesty Ebola is the problem but it in West Africa its not the cause. Stupid people are the cause. Locking out areas and then hitting them with tactical seems like the only solution...........OR is that solution to American for Sir Tatty?

 

[Tatty_Two]

That solution is way to British.

Joking aside that would cause a blood bath. Some of those dictators would rather spread Ebola than give up power. I think it would have the opposite effect than wanted.

The difference is Central Africa was willing to seek treatment. In all honesty Ebola is the problem but it in West Africa its not the cause. Stupid people are the cause. Locking out areas and then hitting them with tactical seems like the only solution...........OR is that solution to American for Sir Tatty?

And you were worried my method may cause a blood bath? A "tactical" would kill thousands of women and children, at least my method would only kill those that didn't do what they were told

 

[Sasqui]

ocking out areas and then hitting them with tactical seems like the only solution...

I don't know what would be worse, the fallout, or ebola being spread into the atmosphere by droplets of blood and fragments of human remains. The scope of the outbreak is rather staggering:

 

[TheMailMan78]

And you were worried my method may cause a blood bath? A "tactical" would kill thousands of women and children, at least my method would only kill those that didn't do what they were told

You and I both know there is no blood after a tactical. There is no humidity at all for a short time. Blood bath averted. One or two tacticals and Ill bet you a pint that people will be lining up at treatment centers and the spread will stop.

Would innocents die? Yes. But far more innocents will die if we don't. Boots on the ground will make it spread faster I suspect. Hell we could fire bomb if people are so scared of nukes. The outcome is what we need. Means of delivery I could care less about.