Ebola and you!

[rtwjunkie]

Too late: http://www.wwltv.com/story/news/loc...to-board-ship-docking-in-no-tonight/15791245/

They say it's malaria, which mimics the first symptoms of Ebola.

Dafuk????? That's where I am!!!!

 

[Sasqui]

Dafuk????? That's where I am!!!!

Don't panic man! ...just don't pick up any sailors

 

[rtwjunkie]

Don't panic man! ...just don't pick up any sailors

I hope it IS just malaria, because we can imagine how fast that stuff would spread in a dense metropolitan area like New Orleans.

 

[buildzoid]

You and I both know there is no blood after a tactical. There is no humidity at all for a short time. Blood bath averted. One or two tacticals and Ill bet you a pint that people will be lining up at treatment centers and the spread will stop.

Would innocents die? Yes. But far more innocents will die if we don't. Boots on the ground will make it spread faster I suspect. Hell we could fire bomb if people are so scared of nukes. The outcome is what we need. Means of delivery I could care less about.

You'd need a seriously large nuke to get a city completely vaporized. Another issue is that most of a nukes destructive power comes from the shock wave it makes so you would end up with bit's of infected being sent flying everywhere. So really you'd need to use a nuke with way more firepower than necessary to get a "clean" explosion. Fire bombs are almost certainly the better option in terms of cleanliness but they are harder to use as fast. Also firebombs will cause much more suffering than a nuke because with a nuke the main blast zone is an instantaneous death so if your whole target got caught in the fireball it be much cleaner and less painful but the nuke would not be a tactical by any measure unless it's being dropped on a small town or village.

Right now I think it be better to just completely lock down Africa and wait for a vaccine to get made. If a vaccines doesn't get discovered soon enough you can always burn the infected areas to the ground.

 

[AphexDreamer]

So people don't just want population control they want controlled population control.

 

[D007]

Everyone should just mind their own dam business. Let natural selection take place.

 

[Aquinus]

You'd need a seriously large nuke to get a city completely vaporized. Another issue is that most of a nukes destructive power comes from the shock wave it makes so you would end up with bit's of infected being sent flying everywhere. So really you'd need to use a nuke with way more firepower than necessary to get a "clean" explosion.

I think someone is forgetting that thermonuclear explosions have extremely high temperatures and it's that high temperature that starts the reaction in the first place. In fact I would imagine that with a modern nuke would vaporize everything within several kilometers while scorching the land for several more. I suspect that heat would kill Ebola almost instantly much like how it kills human life just as quickly.

Everyone should just mind their own dam business. Let natural selection take place.

Until Ebola spreads across the world and ten of thousands if not eventually hundreds of thousands will could die (forget the possibility of millions and a global epidemic).

In all seriousness, by the time the government actually considers nuclear weapons it will probably already be too late although I think the idea that nukes would spread it more is asinine. Fortunately Ebola is only spread through contact with someone who is infected or their bodily fluids and not by air. If it mutates and it becomes the case that it could spread by air, I would have to agree with TMM, all options need to be on the table.

 

[newconroer]

I don't know how to say this without sounding xenophobic, racist or mean but generally speaking the African continent (we'll give Egypt a pass here), has contributed very little positive to the world. To this day it's a hot bed for so many problems that the rest of the world picks up the tab on.

And who should we blame?

• Spineless politicians poking their nose where it doesn't belong?
• Clueless celebrities and black leaders suggesting that Africa is some utopian homeland?
• Christian missionaries with a suicide wish?
• Altruistic posers who for some reason think that being charitable to your native nation isn't good enough, so you have to fly across the world to some hell hole in order for it to be meaningful..

Everyone should just mind their own dam business. Let natural selection take place.

Let's face it, if the world had left Africa alone, there's a good chance the majority of it's issues would have stayed self-contained and isolated.

What really upsets me is that we're sending good young military men to deal with what is clearly not a military situation. While not entirely the same, it has a foreboding feeling of Black Hawk Down - a non military peace effort, turned into a military cluster fu**.

Fortunately Ebola is only spread through contact with someone who is infected or their bodily fluids and not by air. If it mutates and it becomes the case that it could spread by air, I would have to agree with TMM, all options need to be on the table.

Any ways, onto the science side of things - I do not understand why they've brought the patients back to North America?

 

[Aquinus]

Any ways, onto the science side of things - I do not understand why they've brought the patients back to North America?

It's not spread by air though which means you only have to isolate a person by location, while properly disposing of materials as hazardous waste. Minimizing contact with the actual person is the key, but it wouldn't really matter if the windows in his or her room were open (unless he or she was vomiting out it, that's a different story.) For only a handful of people, proper safety precautions practically eliminates the risk of outbreak and the industrialized world is much more prepared to deal with such cases than say, Sierra Leone is.

When it comes to highly infectious diseases, we're a lot more careful than they are. We also don't eat bush meat which is why we don't have this problem. I want to say something like bats carry the pathogen but aren't impacted by it.

 

[newconroer]

It's not spread by air though which means you only have to isolate a person by location, while properly disposing of materials as hazardous waste. Minimizing contact with the actual person is the key, but it wouldn't really matter if the windows in his or her room were open (unless he or she was vomiting out it, that's a different story.) For only a handful of people, proper safety precautions practically eliminates the risk of outbreak and the industrialized world is much more prepared to deal with such cases than say, Sierra Leone is.

When it comes to highly infectious diseases, we're a lot more careful than they are. We also don't eat bush meat which is why we don't have this problem. I want to say something like bats carry the pathogen but aren't impacted by it.

Thank you for the explanation however NA is not the only first world continent capable of handling the quarantine. Let's not forget Europe..

 

[Aquinus]

Thank you for the explanation however NA is not the only first world continent capable of handling the quarantine. Let's not forget Europe..

The US took care of it's own citizens, much like how Spain took care of its own doctor (who unfortunately died) as did the UK. It's not like we're (the US of A) taking care of every international doctor that gets infected. We take care of our own, as it should be.

 

[newconroer]

Oh ok, I understand then.

 

[buildzoid]

I think someone is forgetting that thermonuclear explosions have extremely high temperatures and it's that high temperature that starts the reaction in the first place. In fact I would imagine that with a modern nuke would vaporize everything within several kilometers while scorching the land for several more. I suspect that heat would kill Ebola almost instantly much like how it kills human life just as quickly.

The super high temperatures only occur at the epicenter of the blast so if you used a small nuke like 20-80kilotons it would not vaporize the entire target. Just check the documentation of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. The cities both got leveled but most of the damage was cause by the shock wave not the heat. People suffered serious burns if exposed to the radiation but didn't get vaporized unless they were at ground zero . So really if you wanted to completely erase a city you would need a 500+ kiloton nuke and that isn't a tactical.

 

[rtwjunkie]

It's not spread by air though which means you only have to isolate a person by location, while properly disposing of materials as hazardous waste. Minimizing contact with the actual person is the key, but it wouldn't really matter if the windows in his or her room were open (unless he or she was vomiting out it, that's a different story.) For only a handful of people, proper safety precautions practically eliminates the risk of outbreak and the industrialized world is much more prepared to deal with such cases than say, Sierra Leone is.

When it comes to highly infectious diseases, we're a lot more careful than they are. We also don't eat bush meat which is why we don't have this problem. I want to say something like bats carry the pathogen but aren't impacted by it.

I think you overestimate the ability of the industrialized nations to deal with a MAJOR epidemic. It doesn't take much of a disaster even now to totally overwhelm emergency responses and relief aid in just a portion of any country. And our ability to contain something like this, which is as infectious as this is just not there except for a few cases in a few special positive air pressure containment wards. It takes one mistake at the CDC, or one lesser standard of isolation protocol being violated elsewhere in say, the U.S., perhaps. Let us also not forget, not everyone who gets a mysterious illness will seek medical help, for any number of reasons. Then in a deranged state they start biting people, or puking on them,

It's not a far stretch. Like @TheMailMan78 said, we're only a power outage away from civilisation and being tribes.

 

[Frick]

I don't know how to say this without sounding xenophobic, racist or mean but generally speaking the African continent (we'll give Egypt a pass here), has contributed very little positive to the world. To this day it's a hot bed for so many problems that the rest of the world picks up the tab on.

And who should we blame?

• Spineless politicians poking their nose where it doesn't belong?
• Clueless celebrities and black leaders suggesting that Africa is some utopian homeland?
• Christian missionaries with a suicide wish?
• Altruistic posers who for some reason think that being charitable to your native nation isn't good enough, so you have to fly across the world to some hell hole in order for it to be meaningful..

Let's face it, if the world had left Africa alone, there's a good chance the majority of it's issues would have stayed self-contained and isolated.

It's the continent that keeps on giving!

BTW, it's interesting how people can use phrases like "If a vaccines doesn't get discovered soon enough you can always burn the infected areas to the ground." so callously. On the other hand, sending soldiers in might even be fun.

 

[Vario]

TheMailMan78, as a church goer shouldn't you understand the concept of selfless charity?

 

[buildzoid]

It's the continent that keeps on giving!

BTW, it's interesting how people can use phrases like "If a vaccines doesn't get discovered soon enough you can always burn the infected areas to the ground." so callously. On the other hand, sending soldiers in might even be fun.

What else would you do other than keep researching until most of the people are dead anyway at which point you'll have to sanitize the area and fire is the best way to do that. I didn't say burn it to the ground while most of the population is healthy I meant it as a solution once 95%+ of the population is dead.

 

[Vario]

What else would you do other than keep researching until most of the people are dead anyway at which point you'll have to sanitize the area and fire is the best way to do that. I didn't say burn it to the ground while most of the population is healthy I meant it as a solution once 95%+ of the population is dead.

So your plan is to kill the remaining 5%?

 

[buildzoid]

So your plan is to kill the remaining 5%?

If they're infected and don't agree to any treatment(if any exists at that point) then yes.

 

[newconroer]

If they're infected and don't agree to any treatment(if any exists at that point) then yes.

So anyone for some Dead Island 3 with me?

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

I'm missing some of this discussion, because apparently everyone moved on from the why to the what do we do.

Nuclear weapons really aren't an option. The reason is simple. The environmental impact, coupled with the massive cost of this, would be too great. Even if we could get past those two points, there are people who would never do this because it's morally dubious.

Education in Africa doesn't work. For every child that can afford to be in schools there is at least one that cannot. As long as superstition and hate are spread from one generation to the next there will be strife. The people who "freed" the ebola victims hopefully aren't motivated by anything but good intentions (read: warlords smart enough to use a sort of biological cleansing solution), but they are criminally un-educated.

What is the solution then? Quarantine, cleansing of exports, and minor fortification of resource extraction efforts. Quarantines allow the disease to burn out, by preventing further infections. It may require armed enforcement, but stopping transmission has to be priority one. Cleansing exports is trickier. The easiest way to do this is either fire or radiation. My money is radiation. A low level exposure to a weak radioactive source kills everything, then goods are stored at a safe location. Just prior to shipping another quick bath is initiated. Everything leaving the ports is cleared, and the setup should be cheap enough to install in every African port. Without any real operational or maintenance costs, you've got sterile non-living exports. Fortification of resource gatherers is a bit more painful. Unfortunately, we cannot help everyone, so those we do help need protection. I'm not saying we don't help those that ask for it, but by fortifying our locations we have areas that can render aide, without sending more people out to contract disease. Hospitals are generally over-run because armed guards don't stand watch over them. Doing so sends terrible messages about our confidence, but this kind of epidemic isn't something to take lightly.



I guess the gist of what I'm saying is to not cut Africa off, and to not use nuclear bombs as a solution. Ebola is frightening, but the scarier thing is that we are guilty of genocides just because there is a risk of the infection passing out into the rest of the world. If nothing else, the bird flu scares should have tempered our resolve to contain and control a pathogen. It should have taught us that humans, and more importantly our infrastructure, are too fragile to take a cavalier attitude towards.

If that lesson is not adequately learned our population may well never reach the predictions economists make. I guess the horrible truth of disease is that it weeds out higher population densities with frightening accuracy, and it does so without regards to wealth or power. Thankfully, this started in Africa and not Europe, China, or the Americas.

 

[de.das.dude]

Its pretty clear that the car cans are too dumb for their own good. Who are we to care about their welfare. They freed Ebola. Patients to steal some ruling mattresses...... Come on!!

 

[newconroer]

Education in Africa doesn't work. For every child that can afford to be in schools there is at least one that cannot. As long as superstition and hate are spread from one generation to the next there will be strife. The people who "freed" the ebola victims hopefully aren't motivated by anything but good intentions (read: warlords smart enough to use a sort of biological cleansing solution), but they are criminally un-educated.

It may not work, and it's not our problem if it doesn't work - or rather it shouldn't be.

What is the solution then? Quarantine, cleansing of exports, and minor fortification of resource extraction efforts. Quarantines allow the disease to burn out, by preventing further infections. It may require armed enforcement, but stopping transmission has to be priority one. Cleansing exports is trickier. The easiest way to do this is either fire or radiation. My money is radiation. A low level exposure to a weak radioactive source kills everything, then goods are stored at a safe location. Just prior to shipping another quick bath is initiated. Everything leaving the ports is cleared, and the setup should be cheap enough to install in every African port. Without any real operational or maintenance costs, you've got sterile non-living exports. Fortification of resource gatherers is a bit more painful. Unfortunately, we cannot help everyone, so those we do help need protection. I'm not saying we don't help those that ask for it, but by fortifying our locations we have areas that can render aide, without sending more people out to contract disease. Hospitals are generally over-run because armed guards don't stand watch over them. Doing so sends terrible messages about our confidence, but this kind of epidemic isn't something to take lightly.

You just described exactly why we SHOULD cut them off. Once again, the world taking care of Africa for no good reason.

Ebola is frightening, but the scarier thing is that we are guilty of genocides just because there is a risk of the infection passing out into the rest of the world. If nothing else, the bird flu scares should have tempered our resolve to contain and control a pathogen. It should have taught us that humans, and more importantly our infrastructure, are too fragile to take a cavalier attitude towards.

Best to cut ties now and not have to face a moral position such as this ever again.

 

[W1zzard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04hcthj

Excellent documentary on Ebola, must-watch if you want to discuss the various issues. Should be available as Torrent from the usual suspects, too.

 

[RCoon]

Somewhere Matthew Broderick just bought the game "Contagion" on steam. We can call his feature film "Diseasegames". It's ok, Madagascar is always impossible to infect, we can all just flee there.