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Ebola and you!

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Frick

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Best to cut ties now and not have to face a moral position such as this ever again.

That's not how the world works dude. There are resources in Africa. If they find the precious materials needed to make faster computers, they will be exploited. Or imagine if they find huge swats of oil somewhere. They will be exploited, there will be slavery.

Which is part of the problem. The rich nations live on the poor nations; I personally think it's a bit too late to say "we are not responsible". The world is just a net of dependancies, and many threads end in the lives of poor, uneducated people with corrupt leaders. And given how they say Africas population will double by 2050... They, and everyone else, is in for some serious shit.
 

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That's not how the world works dude. There are resources in Africa. If they find the precious materials needed to make faster computers, they will be exploited. Or imagine if they find huge swats of oil somewhere. They will be exploited, there will be slavery.

Which is part of the problem. The rich nations live on the poor nations; I personally think it's a bit too late to say "we are not responsible". The world is just a net of dependancies, and many threads end in the lives of poor, uneducated people with corrupt leaders. And given how they say Africas population will double by 2050... They, and everyone else, is in for some serious shit.

You said it very well! There is no way for any nation to survive anymore by being isolationist. Nor can the industrialized nations survive without the HUGE amount of natural resources (including, but not limited to Gold, copper, iron, diamonds and oil) that are traded for from the African Continent. And isn't one of the countries there in possession of one of the few rare earth minerals deposits in the world? Those are crucial for those of us who love computers, as well.
 
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That's not how the world works dude. There are resources in Africa. If they find the precious materials needed to make faster computers, they will be exploited. Or imagine if they find huge swats of oil somewhere. They will be exploited, there will be slavery.

Which is part of the problem. The rich nations live on the poor nations; I personally think it's a bit too late to say "we are not responsible". The world is just a net of dependancies, and many threads end in the lives of poor, uneducated people with corrupt leaders. And given how they say Africas population will double by 2050... They, and everyone else, is in for some serious shit.

You said it very well! There is no way for any nation to survive anymore by being isolationist. Nor can the industrialized nations survive without the HUGE amount of natural resources (including, but not limited to Gold, copper, iron, diamonds and oil) that are traded for from the African Continent. And isn't one of the countries there in possession of one of the few rare earth minerals deposits in the world? Those are crucial for those of us who love computers, as well.

Good ol' forefathers saying something about entangling alliances .... how prophetic they were.
 
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We survived the plague because we adapted to it. not because the CDC saved us.
They like to think they have power but they have very little power imho.

In the long run I think not letting humanity use natural selection could be our downfall.
Our bodies will never adapt if we don't let them.

Regardless I'm tired of lending a helping hand, to people who would just assume cut our heads off and leave our bodies in a ditch.
 

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We survived the plague because we adapted to it. not because the CDC saved us.
They like to think they have power but they have very little power imho.

In the long run I think not letting humanity use natural selection could be our downfall.
Our bodies will never adapt if we don't let them.

Regardless I'm tired of lending a helping hand, to people who would just assume cut our heads off and leave our bodies in a ditch.

What if said people unknowingly supplied you with your luxury goods? Your economy depends upon it. Yes, you individually, because even americans are affected by economics no matter how many rifles they've got.

And anyway, we are not as adaptable as we once were. We don't work, we just provide services to each other. The moment we gained consciousness we stopped being flexible, everything since has been a long, slow rape on natural resources while waiting for the inevitable darkness. We just push our problems ahead of us and think of people as "them" because that is a lot easier than to imagine them as actual human beings.

Which again, is part of the problem. As humans we should care about other humans, but we are often powerless to do anything about their problems. And the problems are so numerous and so horrific it becomes a sort of overload, especially if we are burdened by personal problems (which we are). Which is what makes our everyday lives interesting - when we can make a difference, do we? It's all in the small details, even when it comes to morals. This is not a reason to not care btw.
 

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Signed up just to say what the hell is this? Nuke Africa? Are you retarded? You quarantine and treat. Not nuke. Africa is the most valuable continent on earth.
Ebola is not deadly if properly treated and has been contained before, and these keyboard warriors want to use nukes. What is this? A secret club for middle-aged guys like "TheMailMan78" to post questionable fantasies about killing Africans? This reminds me of the gun nuts who spend all day online utterly hoping for a zombie breakout.
The international community/US military/UN/African leaders (and so on) can completely lock normal outward flights and put very tight screening in place to leave the country, and keep sending help until the issue is treated. It's literally that simple. Even the Africans alone could eventually handle it (there's already a vaccine for Ebola that works on all animals). It would just take longer because we know how poor and badly trained a lot of Africa is outside the few very well-off places.

@rtwjunkie: You're delusional if you think I'm going to be posting on a forum with standard of discussion this low.

@lilhasselhoffer: It has a 51% fatality rate in Africa according to your own link. It's not deadly if treated properly. Sorry to burst your fantasy, but we're not going to let Ebola "run it's course". That's just going to let it evolve more and is a bad for humanity as whole. Jesus you people have absolutely no sense, and no background in medical care or virology. I do hope something run it's course on you though.

That's an internet discussion for you.
 
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@ChiefJudge: Dude, it's the MM, easily the most controversial figure here because he speaks frankly. Once you're here for awhile you'll see he's a good guy, and very knowledgable on computer issues. It had it's effect by spawning a discussion on the topic, and on alot of levels, there are some very learned responses, commentary and interaction.

Oh, and welcome to TPU!
 
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Signed up just to say what the hell is this? Nuke Africa? Are you retarded? You quarantine and treat. Not nuke. Africa is the most valuable continent on earth.
Ebola is not deadly if properly treated and has been contained before, and these keyboard warriors want to use nukes. What is this? A secret club for middle-aged guys like "TheMailMan78" to post questionable fantasies about killing Africans? This reminds me of the gun nuts who spend all day online utterly hoping for a zombie breakout.
The international community/US military/UN/African leaders (and so on) can completely lock normal outward flights and put very tight screening in place to leave the country, and keep sending help until the issue is treated. It's literally that simple. Even the Africans alone could eventually handle it (there's already a vaccine for Ebola that works on all animals). It would just take longer because we know how poor and badly trained a lot of Africa is outside the few very well-off places.
Thanks, finally someone is reasonable.
 
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It may not work, and it's not our problem if it doesn't work - or rather it shouldn't be.

You just described exactly why we SHOULD cut them off. Once again, the world taking care of Africa for no good reason.

Best to cut ties now and not have to face a moral position such as this ever again.

You obviously are detached from reality, so here's a lesson. Most of the world's rarer resources (gallium, indium, etc...) are very prolific in Africa. Assuming that you still want any technology to be manufactured, you've got to have trade with them.

Let's assume we can cut ties. The US has no way to contact Africa, and no import of goods. Unfortunately, that's not a huge problem. Most of our crap is produced in Asia, and people from those countries are obligated to trade with Africa for the goods. Rather than one leap, ebola is two leaps away. Given that the Chinese can't even abide by the lead free paint rules, what exactly makes you think their quarantine procedures are adequate?


Cutting ties is just a dumb idea. We live on a shrinking planet, and in ten years cutting ties won't be feasible. What we need is a solution now, and that's what I outlined. A nuke solves one problem, and creates two more. Cutting diplomatic ties is, for lack of a more appropriate word, retarded. To think it is a real option is to demonstrate poorly developed mental faculties. We need a plan that still allows for trade, but makes sure that contamination can be controlled.



Assuming you still have a hard-on for cutting ties, talk to some Cubans. Our embargo with them is going strong after several decades, and all it is doing is hurting the people of Cuba.

Signed up just to say what the hell is this? Nuke Africa? Are you retarded? You quarantine and treat. Not nuke. Africa is the most valuable continent on earth.
Ebola is not deadly if properly treated and has been contained before, and these keyboard warriors want to use nukes. What is this? A secret club for middle-aged guys like "TheMailMan78" to post questionable fantasies about killing Africans? This reminds me of the gun nuts who spend all day online utterly hoping for a zombie breakout.
The international community/US military/UN/African leaders (and so on) can completely lock normal outward flights and put very tight screening in place to leave the country, and keep sending help until the issue is treated. It's literally that simple. Even the Africans alone could eventually handle it (there's already a vaccine for Ebola that works on all animals). It would just take longer because we know how poor and badly trained a lot of Africa is outside the few very well-off places.

Where in Hades are you getting your facts from? Ebola not being deadly is 100% BS.

Care to not believe me? Check out the WHO's own page, and see the listing of deaths being anywhere from 25-100% of cases: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

What is also of note is that there is no cure or treatment currently recognized. They just pump you full of fluids, so that the ones you lose can be replenished. Basically, they're keeping you hydrated, and hoping your immune system fixes the problem. That isn't "not deadly if properly treated," that's only deadly most of the time.

While I agree that a nuke is not the solution, what we are doing now is insufficient. You seem to think we have a magic bullet vaccine and cure. That could not be farther from the truth.

I'll refer back to the Guinea worm comment. It took decades to cure a non lethal issue, with strong push-back from native Africans. How can you expect a pathogen that is lethal in days to somehow buck the trends and be easier to educate people about? How can you expect people to go to Africa and render billions of dollars worth of aide, at great personal risk, rather than simply let this thing run its course?


It's heartless to say, but humanity has demonstrated that it learns fastest when its nose is bloodied. The atom bomb ended WWII, the invasion of non-native species was addressed by the DNR after the invasion of said species, humanity stopped testing on humans whenever the horrors of the holocaust and other experiments were brought to light, and it will take another global epidemic before people realize that quarantine procedures are a necessary evil. I say bring the Ebola on. It has to be better than MRSA and anti-biotic resistant strains of dead diseases that we've managed to create ourselves.
 
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Signed up just to say what the hell is this? Nuke Africa? Are you retarded? You quarantine and treat. Not nuke. Africa is the most valuable continent on earth.
Ebola is not deadly if properly treated and has been contained before, and these keyboard warriors want to use nukes. What is this? A secret club for middle-aged guys like "TheMailMan78" to post questionable fantasies about killing Africans? This reminds me of the gun nuts who spend all day online utterly hoping for a zombie breakout.
The international community/US military/UN/African leaders (and so on) can completely lock normal outward flights and put very tight screening in place to leave the country, and keep sending help until the issue is treated. It's literally that simple. Even the Africans alone could eventually handle it (there's already a vaccine for Ebola that works on all animals). It would just take longer because we know how poor and badly trained a lot of Africa is outside the few very well-off places.

@rtwjunkie: You're delusional if you think I'm going to be posting on a forum with standard of discussion this low.

@lilhasselhoffer: It has a 51% fatality rate in Africa according to your own link. It's not deadly if treated properly. Sorry to burst your fantasy, but we're not going to let Ebola "run it's course". That's just going to let it evolve more and is a bad for humanity as whole. Jesus you people have absolutely no sense, and no background in medical care or virology. I do hope something run it's course on you though.

That's an internet discussion for you.
Middle aged people have been on this Earth long enough to know what they teach you in school isn't always the case and man in a large dose is stupid. However we are young enough to still learn and adapt. So yes I am PROUDLY middle aged. @ChiefJudge you are 21 years old according to your profile. You know where I was when you were still rolling around in your mama's tummy? I was poaching deer with my father to eat because marshal law had been declared in my home town and everything was destroyed. No power for 6 MONTHS and no drinkable water for almost the same amount of time. While you were nursing on your moms breast I was eating frog legs so have a little respect.

As for "fantasies about killing Africans" I have none. I have fantasies about Denise Milani. I've read about containment, I've read about treatment and I've read about all the magic of first world medicine. You know what? ITS ALL BS because it relies way to much on human error. IF the people in west Africa would seek treatment and not loot field hospitals I would be more than happy to have my tax money spent on saving their lives. HOWEVER that isn't the case and the games they are playing could throw us into another dark age. Now I know a lot of highly moral people and limo liberals think everyone just needs a hug but, I've been around long enough to quote Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until someone punches them in the mouth". If we don't act soon and harsh we may lose a hundred years of advancement because we didn't do what needed to be done. Ebola will be a punch in the mouth to civilization.

Nukes people think are stupid. Yet recommend radiation for decontamination. They recommend good medical treatment is the key yet I contracted MRSA a few years ago FROM A HOSPITAL rated top 10 in the world. I have the scar tissue all over my leg to prove it. I've lived under marshal law IN THE UNITED STATES and seen first world citizens revert to tribes yet people think the US or Europe can contain an outbreak.

I'm sorry but unless I see a vaccine soon or they contain the infection and keep it from spreading I don't see another logical choice.
 
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rtwjunkie

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@rtwjunkie: You're delusional if you think I'm going to be posting on a forum with standard of discussion this low.

Well, all i have to say is youve reached the most friendly and knowledgeable tech forum around (yes, Ive been on most of them, and most are filled with asshats). Here, people take the time to help each other and share their knowledge. And yes, sometimes talk about other big matters in the world. And sometimes disagree, although mostly civilly...like a family.

What you may not know, is this community banded together to donate parts and money to build several crunching computers to help the research fight against cancer, in honor of one of our longtime members and moderators that died from cancer recently. Or the many, many game giveaways that are sponsored by many member of this forum.

So, if you don't want to post here, because we are not highbrow enough for you, we certainly won't stop you from leaving (and don't let the door hit you on the way out). But if you want to stay, and share your opinions and share your knowledge on techy subjects without insulting an entire forum, and learn a few things too, you won't find a friendlier or more welcoming crowd, and we'd love to have you.

And had you lurked a little more, you might have known from prior observation that Mailman is not entirely serious. He's making a point though...we do need to fix this.
 
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@lilhasselhoffer: It has a 51% fatality rate in Africa according to your own link. It's not deadly if treated properly. Sorry to burst your fantasy, but we're not going to let Ebola "run it's course". That's just going to let it evolve more and is a bad for humanity as whole. Jesus you people have absolutely no sense, and no background in medical care or virology. I do hope something run it's course on you though.

That's an internet discussion for you.

You are either a troll, idiot, idealist, or a combination of the three.

By the same token, the bubonic plague could have been treated. Somehow the history books record a completely different story, prior to the implementation of vaccines. We have no vaccine for ebola, so defend your point. History records diseases like this being plagues, and the only distance between us and the middle ages is a very fragile infrastructure, never really designed for true epidemics.

To the threat, I'd suggest you read the rules of this forum. Civil discourse is accepted, but an open and hollow threat paints you as a child without anything to add to the discussion. That sort of crap gets you banned, and your rather caustic responses paint a good reason to report you to moderators. If you are so offended, please leave the discussion.

Finally, before you propose something run the numbers. The article cites 51%, but the total infections is 2387, with the deaths adding up to 1590. That's 66% of all confirmed cases leading to death. Perhaps critical thinking is something you lack, because a 2/3 chance of death is pretty much death.



As far as insulting TheMailMan78, get out. Seriously, leave now if you can't take what is being said. He's a lot like Lewis Black. What he says is blunt, often times offensive, but is generally well intentioned and attempting to convey a point. You seem incapable of interacting in a discussion, so don't start.

Five years ago I was fresh out of college, and knew everything. My heart didn't bleed, but I knew how things should work. After two years in the real world, you discover college is an elaborate prank, and the people who got the joke are the ones who spent the weekends drunk and enjoying their last bits of freedom. Unless you are getting a doctorate, or going into research, reality has to sink in. Life is not found in a text book, and college does little more than get you to read the text and build debt.

Nukes people think are stupid. Yet recommend radiation for decontamination. They recommend good medical treatment is the key yet I contracted MRSA a few years ago FROM A HOSPITAL rated top 10 in the world. I have the scar tissue all over my leg to prove it. I've lived under marshal law IN THE UNITED STATES and seen first world citizens revert to tribes yet people think the US or Europe can contain an outbreak.

I'm sorry but unless I see a vaccine soon or they contain the infection and keep it from spreading I don't see another logical choice.

Yeah, not sure exactly how to respond to this.

A nuke is high grade enriched material, designed to undergo atomic decay whenever detonated. Large cost, large complexity, and big boom. The radioactive sources I proposed are weakly decaying, similar intensity to the beach sands commonly found in Brazil. Exposure breaks down simple organisms quickly, and there's no extra cost. The alternative is heat, which costs money and has the tendency to damage things. Not sure how you are equating a bomb with a bath in low level radiation, so please give me a hint here.

As far as the medical system, that's a function of stupidity, as much as anything else. We proscribe a ton of anti-biotics, and people don't take the appropriate doses (I'm feeling better, so I don't have to take it). Remaining organisms develop a tolerance, and people track these back to hospitals. MRSA is entirely the fault of human hubris, and a medical system leaning far too heavily on one tool.


As far as the Marshall Law, I'm 100% behind you. It takes surprisingly little for people to become violent and brutal animals. Every tornado, hurricane, and natural disaster proves that out.

Honestly though, the world can't afford for African exports to drop. Even a tactical nuclear device would contaminate a large swath of land, so we may well be stopping Ebola at the price of dramatically higher cancer in those that survive. This is why a nuke solves one problem, but introduces the far more difficult problem of dealing with its repercussions.


Assuming that you were looking for a real scorched earth solution, a fuel-air explosive could theoretically be used. No radiation, just searing heat that vaporizes organic matter. Still have to deal with question of ending lives, but at least the resources aren't contaminated. Good lord it feel dirty to say that, I think I have to go pet some puppies to balance out the evil of that thought.
 

TheMailMan78

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You are either a troll, idiot, idealist, or a combination of the three.

By the same token, the bubonic plague could have been treated. Somehow the history books record a completely different story, prior to the implementation of vaccines. We have no vaccine for ebola, so defend your point. History records diseases like this being plagues, and the only distance between us and the middle ages is a very fragile infrastructure, never really designed for true epidemics.

To the threat, I'd suggest you read the rules of this forum. Civil discourse is accepted, but an open and hollow threat paints you as a child without anything to add to the discussion. That sort of crap gets you banned, and your rather caustic responses paint a good reason to report you to moderators. If you are so offended, please leave the discussion.

Finally, before you propose something run the numbers. The article cites 51%, but the total infections is 2387, with the deaths adding up to 1590. That's 66% of all confirmed cases leading to death. Perhaps critical thinking is something you lack, because a 2/3 chance of death is pretty much death.



As far as insulting TheMailMan78, get out. Seriously, leave now if you can't take what is being said. He's a lot like Lewis Black. What he says is blunt, often times offensive, but is generally well intentioned and attempting to convey a point. You seem incapable of interacting in a discussion, so don't start.

Five years ago I was fresh out of college, and knew everything. My heart didn't bleed, but I knew how things should work. After two years in the real world, you discover college is an elaborate prank, and the people who got the joke are the ones who spent the weekends drunk and enjoying their last bits of freedom. Unless you are getting a doctorate, or going into research, reality has to sink in. Life is not found in a text book, and college does little more than get you to read the text and build debt.



Yeah, not sure exactly how to respond to this.

A nuke is high grade enriched material, designed to undergo atomic decay whenever detonated. Large cost, large complexity, and big boom. The radioactive sources I proposed are weakly decaying, similar intensity to the beach sands commonly found in Brazil. Exposure breaks down simple organisms quickly, and there's no extra cost. The alternative is heat, which costs money and has the tendency to damage things. Not sure how you are equating a bomb with a bath in low level radiation, so please give me a hint here.

As far as the medical system, that's a function of stupidity, as much as anything else. We proscribe a ton of anti-biotics, and people don't take the appropriate doses (I'm feeling better, so I don't have to take it). Remaining organisms develop a tolerance, and people track these back to hospitals. MRSA is entirely the fault of human hubris, and a medical system leaning far too heavily on one tool.


As far as the Marshall Law, I'm 100% behind you. It takes surprisingly little for people to become violent and brutal animals. Every tornado, hurricane, and natural disaster proves that out.

Honestly though, the world can't afford for African exports to drop. Even a tactical nuclear device would contaminate a large swath of land, so we may well be stopping Ebola at the price of dramatically higher cancer in those that survive. This is why a nuke solves one problem, but introduces the far more difficult problem of dealing with its repercussions.


Assuming that you were looking for a real scorched earth solution, a fuel-air explosive could theoretically be used. No radiation, just searing heat that vaporizes organic matter. Still have to deal with question of ending lives, but at least the resources aren't contaminated. Good lord it feel dirty to say that, I think I have to go pet some puppies to balance out the evil of that thought.
I honestly mentioned fire bombing already. Just thought nuke would be a quicker death.
 

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I honestly mentioned fire bombing already. Just thought nuke would be a quicker death.
A quicker death if one explodes within a mile or two of you, if you are 5, 10 or even 50 miles away you may just last for 10 or 20 years with pain, suffering and decreasing functions, not a nice way to go, fact is 70% of those that die take a long time to do it, it's indiscriminate........ in any case, we don't have them to use them, just to scare others off from using them :)
 
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This thread is sinking even below the GN level (then again, GN de facto increased its standards recently). Just saying, on GN I would have considered locking the thread by now, given the outright ridiculous comments here.
 
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This thread is sinking even below the GN level (then again, GN de facto increased its standards recently). Just saying, on GN I would have considered locking the thread by now, given the outright ridiculous comments here.
Yeah I don't think that the discussion of dropping bombs on Africans is in the spirit of the kinds of science that this forum section was created for.
 
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