Maxwell to support Adaptivesync (AMD's "Freesync")

[Mathragh]

Soo, I just found this here (in dutch, swedish source is here).

According to them, according to sweclockers Nvidia in a closed press conference announced they'll also support the new displayport standard in their newest maxwell cards with a driver update.


Take it with a grain of salt as always with rumors, but still sounds like theres funtimes ahead!

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Its an open standard they're free to and it would make sense to me

 

[Aquinus]

That's what I call a waste of R&D in gsync. Personally, it sounds like what happened with CUDA. Open standards without any royalty fees is a huge incentive to not want to go the gsync route.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

That's what I call a waste of R&D in gsync. Personally, it sounds like what happened with CUDA. Open standards without any royalty fees is a huge incentive to not want to go the gsync route.

They will still promote g-sync as the better solution obviously. Honestly I think this is a stab at AMD a bit. All AMD has done in the last couple months in run their mouths about Nvidia's g-sync and ultimately failed at marketing their "FreeSync," and now Nvidia has done something they don't do much. Probably the best thing Nvidia could do at this point.

 

[Sasqui]

That's what I call a waste of R&D in gsync. Personally, it sounds like what happened with CUDA. Open standards without any royalty fees is a huge incentive to not want to go the gsync route.

NVidia has always been good at monetizing on their own proprietary shit.

Oops fanboy flame-war fodder incoming!

 

[Scrizz]

This wouldn't surprise me.
I'm sure NVidia might add some more stuff to their GSync

 

[crazyeyesreaper]

Fact in a majority of games G-sync works better and has more consistent results
Fact Free-sync is free.


As such Nvidia offers the better option while also providing the free option. Its a win win for them.

 

[arbiter]

Wait lets not get this wrong, They support the Standard, Freesync is NOT the standard and AMD has admitted it that its proprietary code based on the standard. So nvidia may support the 1.2a standard but AMD's proprietary implementation of it is Still Proprietary, and if you don't believe me go read AMD's OWN FAQ's. They admit to the fact it based on the standards protocols but Proprietary.

How are DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync and Project FreeSync different?
DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync is an ingredient DisplayPort feature that enables real-time adjustment of monitor refresh rates required by technologies like Project FreeSync. Project FreeSync is a unique AMD hardware/software solution that utilizes DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync protocols to enable user-facing benefits: smooth, tearing-free and low-latency gameplay and video
Is DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync the industry-standard version of Project FreeSync?
The DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync specification was ported from the Embedded DisplayPort specification through a proposal to the VESA group by AMD. DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync is an ingredient feature of a DisplayPort link and an industry standard that enables technologies like Project FreeSync.

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/freesync-faq.aspx

 

[RejZoR]

They will still promote g-sync as the better solution obviously. Honestly I think this is a stab at AMD a bit. All AMD has done in the last couple months in run their mouths about Nvidia's g-sync and ultimately failed at marketing their "FreeSync," and now Nvidia has done something they don't do much. Probably the best thing Nvidia could do at this point.

They failed at marketing (yet) non existent feature? Amazing... When there will be support and actual functional retail stuff, trust me, they will market it just fine.

 

[Steevo]

Wait lets not get this wrong, They support the Standard, Freesync is NOT the standard and AMD has admitted it that its proprietary code based on the standard. So nvidia may support the 1.2a standard but AMD's proprietary implementation of it is Still Proprietary, and if you don't believe me go read AMD's OWN FAQ's. They admit to the fact it based on the standards protocols but Proprietary.



http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/freesync-faq.aspx

LOL I see you have made it to the P area of the dictionary.


FreeSync is a name brand for a common piece of hardware that goes in a graphics card display logic, much like a"Vortec" or "Powerstroke" are just brand nomenclatures for engines, all with pistons, valves, crankshafts, and other common parts.

Nvidia supports the VESA standard on their own mobile devices, but instead of trying to release it with a nomenclature on desktop, they tried to capitalize on adding proprietary hardware into the mix. What you are asking for is a Vortec engine in a Ford Mustang, when their own engine does the same thing, and yes, the Vortec engine mounts are proprietary in the same way Free-Sync is.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

They failed at marketing (yet) non existent feature? Amazing... When there will be support and actual functional retail stuff, trust me, they will market it just fine.

AMD isnt known for their marketing, sorry but its true.

 

[arbiter]

Nvidia supports the VESA standard on their own mobile devices, but instead of trying to release it with a nomenclature on desktop, they tried to capitalize on adding proprietary hardware into the mix.

AMD has yet to have working monitors to the public so can't say for sure that their idea will work as good or even the same.

 

[RejZoR]

AMD isnt known for their marketing, sorry but its true.

They aren't selling bullshit like NVIDIA, that's for sure. And neither they try to intentionally dumb down usual features to make their "proprietary" stuff look better. Which yet again is what NVIDIA is doing the entire time. Intentionally disabling FSAA support for competition, intentioinally disabling effects for competition, intentionally making non-PhysX effects lok like a joke compared even to 10 years older games, intentionally making PhysX effects slower for competition, should i go on?

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I'm really liking Nvidia's Maxwell, but I still find it strange a lot of people act as if AMD are the only ones wasting R&D time, as if all Nvidia's features are doing well.

PhysX isn't doing well, HBAO+ seems like an admission they couldn't pull off HDAO nearly as optimized as AMD, and how many monitors out there actually HAVE G-Sync?

Trying to sell G-Sync so hard left a LOT of people with expectations. The price of admission is just too high not only for a lot of consumers, but for manufacturers to even want to feature it. So what is the alliterative? Offer the DisplayPort version that supports Free Sync and admit you got ahead of yourselves again Nvidia.

Nvidia need to learn to do the market research better with manufacturers after proof of concept before going into the convince consumers phase. Because proof of concept is one thing, proving to manufactures it will sell is quite another. This is why a lot of devs don't use PhysX and a lot of manufacturers don't use G-Sync, because Nvidia in all their arrogance didn't see it coming.

That said, good of them to do the right thing and open up Maxwell to Free Sync, IF this is true. They seem to be slowly getting smarter. I've also heard AMD plans to make Raptr GVR work with Nvidia cards too, not that they'd prefer it over ShadpowPlay, but at least they can try both and compare.

If this keeps up red and green will be sweethearts,...naw, just a strange Christmas nightmare.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I don't think you have it quite right mate ,nvidia developed a differential tech ie gsync imho because they had shit loads of tegra chips lieing about doing nothing
They also sold a few more boards to monitor guys and hence can't loose now
Now vesa have the standard sorted nvidia can easily implement a nvsync solution and gain more sales plus nulify a percieved amd advantage ie freesync , its common sense to me.
I did say when gysnc came out it was like nvidia 3d they sell monitors with additional nv sauce for big bucks then standards caught up now nvidia 3d monitors are a wasted investment since the likes of my big samy smart tv can do 3d well.

 

[Aquinus]

I really want to say that nVidia makes me want to upgrade to a 970, but I can say that this definitely isn't a reason why.
I'm not hating on nVidia, I just think that the R&D into GSync was wasteful unless it helps them implement FreeSync. In which case, it's probably not all that useless but the selling point of GSync is a little weak IMHO.

 

[Frick]

Fact in a majority of games G-sync works better and has more consistent results
Fact Free-sync is free.

As such Nvidia offers the better option while also providing the free option. Its a win win for them.

Have Freesync even been tested yet?

 

[Mathragh]

Have Freesync even been tested yet?

nope, but most of the big display controller vendors are gonna support it.
However, it should be functionally the same as G-sync, potentially minus a small bit of latency because Freesync doesn't work with a buffer screen-side.

 

[utengineer]

FreeSync is a name brand for a common piece of hardware that goes in a graphics card display logic, much like a"Vortec" or "Powerstroke" are just brand nomenclatures for engines, all with pistons, valves, crankshafts, and other common parts.

Your analogy is spot on and NVIDIA may simply just be trying to differentiate itself from AMD. Their implementation for control over the AdaptiveSynch technology is really in the first rev now, so I will reserve time to see if it continues to develop and get adopted by more display manufacturers. In the end it may just be a more fuel for fanboyism or brand allegiance. To take off your engine analogy, it falls in line with Chevy versus Ford legions of fan battles. Not trying to sidetrack this thread, but this video will make you laugh, and could easily be scripted for NVIDIA v AMD fans...

Chevy Silverado Parody 2 - Amiri King

 

[GhostRyder]

Thing is this is one of those things that to me seems to be a double edged sword. For starters though they are just supporting the standard and not specifically Freesync unless I am mis-reading something which could mean they will run something similar like Freesync but not specifically Freesync. Either way I still think this can be interpreted many different ways.

For starters this feels like an admission to saying that the standard is worth supporting meaning that it does/will actually work. Basically this could be a bode of confidence towards the whole concept and could almost be admission of knowing the G-Sync will not be as big as they had hoped.

They could also be doing this just to raise a big middle finger at AMD trying to say "We have both so now its your move". This will push people to get an option with their Nvidia card to get the good tech that works, or their proprietary tech that is vastly superior (according to them).

There are other things I can think of with this but I honestly cannot make a judgment yet because not enough information is present. If right though this could end up making G-Sync take the same path likes the other Nvidia techs have done like PhysX.

Have Freesync even been tested yet?

They have had a laptop and some monitors on display showing it at events but no freelance tests yet.

They aren't selling bullshit like NVIDIA, that's for sure. And neither they try to intentionally dumb down usual features to make their "proprietary" stuff look better. Which yet again is what NVIDIA is doing the entire time. Intentionally disabling FSAA support for competition, intentioinally disabling effects for competition, intentionally making non-PhysX effects lok like a joke compared even to 10 years older games, intentionally making PhysX effects slower for competition, should i go on?

I completely agree with you as I used the whole hack system for PhysX (Hybrid PhysX).

 

[Frag_Maniac]

The way I see it, prices are going to have to drop quite a bit on G-Sync equipped displays for it to catch on, and that takes selling a lot of units obviously.

Currently the list of upcoming G-Sync displays is not only a scant 6, it's comprised largely of brands enthusiasts looking for such gear don't commonly associate with, like AOC, Viewsonic, Phillips, and Acer. The only big brand displays I've seen commonly sought after by gamers is ASUS and BenQ so far, and where is ASUS lately with support? I though t they were all in with this?

Monitor-------------------Size-----Resolution------Max Refresh Rate
AOC g2460Pg-------------24″------1920×1080------144Hz
Acer XB280HK-------------28″------3840×2160------60Hz
Philips 272G5DYEB--------27″------1920×1080------144Hz
BENQ XL2420G------------24″------1920×1080------144Hz
BENQ XL2720G------------27″------1920×1080------144Hz
ViewSonic VX2457GML----24″------1920×1080------144Hz

Source: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/list-of-gsync-monitors/

Interesting though that 3D Vision was brought up in refuting my points above, which is yet another Nvidia feature that hasn't panned out that I forgot to mention.

But lets' talk Free Sync vs G-Sync though, since this is largely where the topic has gone. How much real world testing has been done comparing the two? And even IF Free Sync is slightly less effective at removing blur, there are other things to consider. One of G-Sync's biggest tradeoffs is that the precise, consistent strobing creates flicker.

I recall flicker from my old CRT gaming days, and even though I had a graphics series Viewsonic that could render a pretty high refresh at fairly high resolutions, in long gaming sessions it CAN get hard on your eyes. It's too soon to tell yet since there's not much info on tests, but maybe Free Sync with a less aggressive approach strikes a better balance between blur and flicker.

You don't HAVE to remove 100% of the blur from an LCD screen for it to look miles better and be much easier on the eyes. In fact if it came down to 50% blur reduction with 50% of the flicker, I might prefer it to G-Sync, esp if it were a relatively low blur panel to begin with. And if Free Sync were to have more panel type options, like IPS, it would be icing on the cake. Most G-Sync displays seem to be TN, and I'm not only opposed to TN, I wouldn't want to pay a lot for one either.

Lastly, please keep in mind not all gaming and gamers are alike. Lots of us don't play fighter games or fast paced online shooters, or frenzious speed Quake-like arcade games where you're constantly running, hopping and double jumping. These are all games where the chances of seeing noticeable blur are MUCH greater. This is partly why a free version of anti blur technology makes so much sense, because elite online gaming is a relatively small niche, boutique market segment, esp at ultra high refresh and the GPU power it takes to run it.

 

[The Von Matrices]

Why is everyone surprised about this? Who ever said that G-SYNC and VESA adaptive refresh have to be mutually exclusive in NVIDIA's lineup? I never have seen NVIDIA stating that G-SYNC was ever intended to supplant VESA's efforts nor have I ever seen NVIDIA make any comments that G-SYNC is superior to the VESA standard. G-SYNC has always been advertised on its benefits compared to fixed refresh monitors. I can't see how you can argue that its primary purpose was anything other than a way to get the technology to market faster (over a year sooner) and to serve as NVIDIA's trademark name for adaptive refresh. The people who always have been claiming that G-SYNC is primarily a way for NVIDIA to lock out competitors (and thus are surprised about this "revelation" that NVIDIA will be supporting the VESA standard) are misguided.

I don't think you have it quite right mate ,nvidia developed a differential tech ie gsync imho because they had shit loads of tegra chips lieing about doing nothing
They also sold a few more boards to monitor guys and hence can't loose now
Now vesa have the standard sorted nvidia can easily implement a nvsync solution and gain more sales plus nulify a percieved amd advantage ie freesync , its common sense to me.
I did say when gysnc came out it was like nvidia 3d they sell monitors with additional nv sauce for big bucks then standards caught up now nvidia 3d monitors are a wasted investment since the likes of my big samy smart tv can do 3d well.

Please don't spread false information. G-SYNC chips have always been FPGAs. There was never a time that Tegra chips were used. That was speculation brought up at the initial unveiling and was proven wrong 10 months ago.

And regarding 3D, the marketplace is not as rosy as you make it out to be. 3D VISION is a superior solution, since it allows any high refresh rate monitor to be converted into a 3D display. Without 3D VISION, you have to specifically buy a display with integrated glasses transmitter, which eliminates desktop monitors and restricts you to a HDTV (and all the downfalls that entails, such as the being forced to use 720p if you want 60Hz and 3D). Plus with these 3D displays like your Samsung, whether you running AMD or NVIDIA's hardware, you still have to buy software to enable 3D output in games; the only difference between the two companies is that NVIDIA produces and sells the software itself while AMD requires you to buy the software from 3rd parties. When you consider that glasses for a 3D TV are about $50 each, the software to enable 3D is about $40, and 3D VISION allows you to use computer monitors, the $150 price of the 3D VISION kit isn't that bad.

 

[Vlada011]

If AMD Free Sync start to work OK and NVIDIA not support that, all people who only feel some problems what Free Sync can fix will cross on AMD.
This mean one thing...
IF NVIDIA DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT NEW FREE FUTURES WITH DRIVERS EVEN IF THEY ARE FREE AND IMPROVE GAMING MANY CUSTOMERS WHO DON'T HAVE MONEY TO PAY 500-700% FOR MONITOR WITH G-SYNC WILL BE INFERIOR TO AMD RADEON. AND ALL MARKETING, ALL BAD THINGS WHAT NVIDIA EXPLAIN THAT CAN BE FIXED WITH G-SYNC WILL STAY ONLY FOR NVIDIA OWNERS. BECAUSE AMD WILL FIX FOR FREE, NVIDIA WILL ASK 200$ + 500$ MONITOR AND 70% OF CUSTOMER WITH NVIDIA ONLY WILL STAY WITH PROBLEMS.
THAT IS SIMPLE AND PURE TRUE AND CAN'T BE LOOKED ON OTHER WAY.
IF AMD FOUND WAY TO OFFER FREE SOMETHING WHAT NVIDIA ASK 200$ THAN CROWN TO AMD AND CUSTOMERS CAN'T BE VICTIMS BECAUSE NVIDIA WANT MONEY FOR THAT.
THIS MEAN ONLY IF AMD FREE SYNC ADAPTIVE SYNC START TO WORK SAME AS NVIDIA AND IF THAT IS NOT SOME OF AMD OLD TRICKS TO STOP PEOPLE TO BUY MAXWELL. AMD HAD SUCH POLITIC,
I read example...I don't know where, before several years they wait TO INTEL PAY TRIP AND HOTEL ROOMS FOR JOURNALIST FOR THEIR PRESENTATION, PEOPLE CAME FROM WHOLE WORLD AND THAN AMD USE EXACTLY THAT SITUATION TO MOVE THEM IN BIG STYLE IN FEW MILES FROM THAT ON THEIR PRESENTATION AND SAVE 100.000$ easy or more and don't need to pay everything same for journalist... I don't know is it true, but AMD love such things...
Don't look big fonts as loud.

 

[de.das.dude]

Soo, I just found this here (in dutch, swedish source is here).

According to them, according to sweclockers Nvidia in a closed press conference announced they'll also support the new displayport standard in their newest maxwell cards with a driver update.


Take it with a grain of salt as always with rumors, but still sounds like theres funtimes ahead!

unlike nvidia, anything amd develops, they do it open and free to use, this includes tressFX and mantle and what not.

 

[RCoon]

If AMD Free Sync start to work OK and NVIDIA not support that, all people who only feel some problems what Free Sync can fix will cross on AMD.
This mean one thing...
IF NVIDIA DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT NEW FREE FUTURES WITH DRIVERS EVEN IF THEY ARE FREE AND IMPROVE GAMING MANY CUSTOMERS WHO DON'T HAVE MONEY TO PAY 500-700% FOR MONITOR WITH G-SYNC WILL BE INFERIOR TO AMD RADEON. AND ALL MARKETING, ALL BAD THINGS WHAT NVIDIA EXPLAIN THAT CAN BE FIXED WITH G-SYNC WILL STAY ONLY FOR NVIDIA OWNERS. BECAUSE AMD WILL FIX FOR FREE, NVIDIA WILL ASK 200$ + 500$ MONITOR AND 70% OF CUSTOMER WITH NVIDIA ONLY WILL STAY WITH PROBLEMS.
THAT IS SIMPLE AND PURE TRUE AND CAN'T BE LOOKED ON OTHER WAY.
IF AMD FOUND WAY TO OFFER FREE SOMETHING WHAT NVIDIA ASK 200$ THAN CROWN TO AMD AND CUSTOMERS CAN'T BE VICTIMS BECAUSE NVIDIA WANT MONEY FOR THAT.
THIS MEAN ONLY IF AMD FREE SYNC ADAPTIVE SYNC START TO WORK SAME AS NVIDIA AND IF THAT IS NOT SOME OF AMD OLD TRICKS TO STOP PEOPLE TO BUY MAXWELL. AMD HAD SUCH POLITIC,
I read example...I don't know where, before several years they wait TO INTEL PAY TRIP AND HOTEL ROOMS FOR JOURNALIST FOR THEIR PRESENTATION, PEOPLE CAME FROM WHOLE WORLD AND THAN AMD USE EXACTLY THAT SITUATION TO MOVE THEM IN BIG STYLE IN FEW MILES FROM THAT ON THEIR PRESENTATION AND SAVE 100.000$ easy or more and don't need to pay everything same for journalist... I don't know is it true, but AMD love such things...
Don't look big fonts as loud.

I came into this thread, and discovered I need glasses badly.