Lockheed says makes breakthrough on fusion energy project

[Sasqui]

Unfortunately, if you're outside the Chicago broadcast area, you probably need to get "creative" in trying to find it - wink, wink.

Record it for me on DVD, I'll send you a SASE

 

[Ahhzz]

That's creative, alright

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Read this about Lockheed Martin's 6th generation fighter knowing it might pack a fusion power plant:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/01/picture-lockheed-reveals-conce/

...it is time to start looking at the technologies that will provide the next quantum leap in capabilities for the next generation of fighters (IOC ~ 2030+). Simply removing the pilot from an aircraft or introducing incremental improvements in signature and range does not constitute a generational leap in capability.

Greatly increased speed, longer range, extended loiter times, multi-spectral stealth, ubiquitous situation awareness, and self-healing structures and systems are some of the possible technologies we envision for the next generation of fighter aircraft. Next generation fighter capabilities will be driven by game changing technological breakthroughs in the areas of propulsion, materials, power generation, sensors, and weapons that are yet to be fully imagined.

If that wasn't writing on the wall that they were toying with fusion (because they were), I don't know what is.

Electric engines (zero emissions).
Fusion power plant.
LASER weapons.

Lockheed admitted to working on it for at least 4 years (2010). This statement was made in 2012. The second sentence I quoted was a stab at Northrup Grumman and Boeing who put out 6th generation fighter material before Lockheed Martin. Lockheed Martin was late and rather tight-lipped about it other than publishing the picture and the brief statement you see in the link. This could have easily been because Lockheed wasn't prepared to go public with the fusion development yet. It certainly checks all of the boxes.

 

[TheMailMan78]

That much I know, but I don't know if they have a track record of promising impossible things.

Lockheed doesn't promise Frick. They just show up with the goods. If they say they can get it to work history has shown it will. Remember this is an American defense contractor. One thing I think you will agree on is America knows how to make the things that make war.

Everyone is talking about the positive aspects of this revelation. All I see is a new era of weaponry to kill more efficiently. Its what these guys get paid the BIG BUCKS to do.

 

[natr0n]

Lockheed with all that secret alien tech.

 

[twilyth]

Lockheed with all that secret alien tech.

Fusion is too primitive for any self-respecting, space-faring alien. It would be like episode of ST-TNG where they were attacked by a ship with laser. 'Oh look Number One, they're using lasers - how adorable.'

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Everyone is talking about the positive aspects of this revelation. All I see is a new era of weaponry to kill more efficiently. Its what these guys get paid the BIG BUCKS to do.

One might be led to question whether the scientists acted wisely in presenting the statesmen of the world with this appalling problem. Actually there was no choice. Once basic knowledge is acquired, any attempt at preventing its fruition would be as futile as hoping to stop the earth from revolving around the sun. --Enrico Fermi

Lockheed with all that secret alien tech.

If they had access to alien tech, do you honestly believe it would still take 60+ years to make a fusion reactor?

 

[natr0n]

My comment was made independent of this fusion article btw.

 

[Frick]

Lockheed doesn't promise Frick. They just show up with the goods. If they say they can get it to work history has shown it will. Remember this is an American defense contractor. One thing I think you will agree on is America knows how to make the things that make war.

Everyone is talking about the positive aspects of this revelation. All I see is a new era of weaponry to kill more efficiently. Its what these guys get paid the BIG BUCKS to do.

Cool (apart from the untold suffering of millions), I had a feeling they were something like that. Nuclear tanks with nuclear railguns. Now they have weaponize tesla coils, make some power armor and all the games come true all at once.

Seriously though, I've been wanting a nuclear powered car since I was like six.

 

[RCoon]

Seriously though, I've been wanting a nuclear powered car since I was like six.

I wanted one of those magical electric toothbrushes back then. Goes to show how silly we both were.

 

[McSteel]

Yeah, a standing plasma wave in a fittingly formed waveguide cavity seems like a good way to not require an implosion (like in the Teller-Ullam bomb)... However, the kinetic neutrons transferring energy to the container should erode the container itself over time, even compromising the cavity's form (and function) in the process. Wonder how they got around that...

I myself would actually use photovoltaics to gather energy, instead of making a heat generator.

Feasible cold fusion would be an even cooler (ha!) discovery - it would mean alchemy wasn't just a thousand-year-old dream

 

[RejZoR]

If they can really stick this into the back of every car, oil industry will have a serious issue. Though i'd love to see this. I absolutely hate battery powered electric cars because they are literally crap no matter how good they are as a whole. Imagine Tesla or Fiskers Karma being fueled by this unit instead of half a ton of retarded batteries that take 3 days to charge and last for 5 miles. Fuck, i'd want to see this in a regular hatchback!

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yes, the natural gas, oil, and "green" energy companies are going to try to bury fusion because they're done for if they don't. They succeeded with nuclear; I hope they fail with fusion. Any country that decides not to use fusion is going to quickly look like they are in the dark ages compared to countries that embrace it.

I think there is a limit on how small they can get. I could see fusion powered buses, trucks, trains, and maybe aircraft but cars are too small. You need a turbine, reactor, and generator to make fusion electricity work. It really depends on how small the reactor can reasonably get, still function, be safe, and be reliable.

If Lockheed delievers, I suspect the first transportation implementation would be in freight trains. Union Pacific is probably already begging Lockheed for a prototype they can put on a chassis.

 

[eidairaman1]

Robotech/SDF Macross!? Lol

Read this about Lockheed Martin's 6th generation fighter knowing it might pack a fusion power plant:
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/01/picture-lockheed-reveals-conce/

If that wasn't writing on the wall that they were toying with fusion (because they were), I don't know what is.

Electric engines (zero emissions).
Fusion power plant.
LASER weapons.

Lockheed admitted to working on it for at least 4 years (2010). This statement was made in 2012. The second sentence I quoted was a stab at Northrup Grumman and Boeing who put out 6th generation fighter material before Lockheed Martin. Lockheed Martin was late and rather tight-lipped about it other than publishing the picture and the brief statement you see in the link. This could have easily been because Lockheed wasn't prepared to go public with the fusion development yet. It certainly checks all of the boxes.

 

[McSteel]

I think there is a limit on how small they can get. I could see fusion powered buses, trucks, trains, and maybe aircraft but cars are too small. You need a turbine, reactor, and generator to make fusion electricity work. It really depends on how small the reactor can reasonably get, still function, be safe, and be reliable.

If Lockheed delievers, I suspect the first transportation implementation would be in freight trains. Union Pacific is probably already begging Lockheed for a prototype they can put on a chassis.

That's why I mentioned making use of high-energy, efficient photovoltaics (available today!), because fusion plasma will most certainly emit a torrent of high-energy photons. This way you'd only need a VRM besides the fusion module itself and you'd get DC electricity straight from the source, no conversion necessary.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Photovoltaic can't handle the heat of a fusion reactor. Remember what we're talking about: a star in a can. I suppose themoelectic can be rather compact via the Seebeck Effect (used to power satellites from the heat off of decaying plutonium). The vacuum of space is substantially colder than air and ambient temperature could drastically effect the power output which isn't something consumers would appreciate.

 

[twilyth]

Photovoltaic can't handle the heat of a fusion reactor. Remember what we're talking about: a star in a can. I suppose themoelectic can be rather compact via the Seebeck Effect (used to power satellites from the heat off of decaying plutonium). The vacuum of space is substantially colder than air and ambient temperature could drastically effect the power output which isn't something consumers would appreciate.

Thermionic conversion requires 2 plates very close to one another so that as one is heated, electrons are sort of 'boiled off' of one plate and attracted to the positive plate in the circuit. It's a pretty delicate thing to pull of because of how close the plates have to be to one another and the need for them to be in a vacuum environment. At least that's how most thermionic converts work IIRC.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

The containment vessel of the fusion core is heated and a vacuum could be established between the vessel and an outer layer. My concern is that there's no means to bleed off excessive heat so the amount of fuel in the reactor has to be very, very finely tuned. Too much and it will get too hot; too little and it will burn out. I have no idea how much electricity this method could even generate. I know plutonium can't do much but fusion is substantially hotter. Just 1 MW would be more than enough. Even 100kW would beat what batteries in cars can achieve today.

 

[twilyth]

A lot of older space probes and satellites use thermionic converters that are powered by radioactive decay, so the amount of heat you need is pretty nominal. I think caesium is often used for the cathode because its electrons are the easiest to boil off. Also, the vapor seems to act as a conductor making it easier for electrons to jump the gap. You can use other metals, but I don't think they're as efficient. According to wikipedia, they are only 5% to 20% efficient.

The only reason it was used for satellites is because the power supply will last as long as you have enough radioactive decay. So if you use enough of something with a decent halflife, the satellite can be powered almost indefinitely.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Yup, so I'm not so sure it would be a good idea to use in fusion powered cars. It would be substantially more compact than steam though. What alternatives are there?

 

[twilyth]

IDK. Even steam isn't that great efficiency wise. I was just looking that up in fact because I was curious and it seems that the best you can get with steam is mid 40's% - but it can be as low as around 30%. It seems to depend a lot on how much pressure you can generate. Hydroelectric by comparison is about 90% efficient - I'm guessing that's because generator efficiency is also around 90% and the water drives the generators directly.

edit: btw, I was recently reading that solar panels might be 30% or more efficient in the not too distant future and that's not even the theoretical limit if they can use some sort of quantum mechanical capture mechanism similar to how photosynthesis works.

 

[DayKnight]

If they can really stick this into the back of every car, oil industry will have a serious issue. Though i'd love to see this. I absolutely hate battery powered electric cars because they are literally crap no matter how good they are as a whole. Imagine Tesla or Fiskers Karma being fueled by this unit instead of half a ton of retarded batteries that take 3 days to charge and last for 5 miles. Fuck, i'd want to see this in a regular hatchback!

At least, when they fail, they dont/wont take half a city with them.

... and you and your precious bottom, can sue.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

At least, when they fail, they dont/wont take half a city with them.

That only happens in Soviet Russia.

 

[RejZoR]

At least, when they fail, they dont/wont take half a city with them.

... and you and your precious bottom, can sue.

Considering how cars always blow up in American movies, it's not really any less safe than traditional petrol cars...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Fun fact: those are gasoline fires. Explosives push, tear, and shear, not bun; this is why explosives are used to put out particularly nasty fires (e.g. burning oil wells).

Extra fun fact: The Ford Pinto actually upholds that stigma of cars on fire.

 

[MilkyWay]

Lockheed Martin the company who built and designed the F-35 Lightning II LOL

I don't get it ITER have been working on Fusion for years and have many research reactors including the one being built in France but Lockheed suddenly got the fucking chips down?

I think the main problems are containment and sustaining a reaction. Its safer than fisson so even if all they did was replace any old decrepit fission plants it would be better than what we currently have around the planet. Having said that i don't think its a be all end all solution but its hell of a lot better than what we currently use. What i'd like to see is this as a stepping stone.

This could be good for hydrogen power cells; to get hydrogen you need initial splitting of hydrogen and oxygen from water. I read about using photocatalytic water splitting from solar or something to create fuel for hydrogen cells, sounds interesting to me as the problem i had with hydrogen was how they got the hydrogen in the first place. The most popular way of getting hydrogen is hydrocarbons from fossil fuels. They are also looking into ways to use spent nuclear fuel. Hydrogen is probably a hell of a lot better than using a fucking reactor in your car that will produce waste and need reactor walls renewed. I can see why the military might want to use a fussion reactor because they can monitor it and have the funds to service regularly, a regular joe won't take as good care and it will be harder to regulate and monitor a reactor in a car.

Oil industry already has a serious problem; fossil fuels are finite and new drilling techniques are expensive to research and implement. Factor in the rise of research into renewables. Personally i'd like the world to pump money into solar to get the production costs down and efficiency up, theres a lot of positives to solar; jobs creation in service and repair, research, installation, building of the production means, production and creation itself, self sustainability, less of an eyesore ect. Even better if they can get it to create hydrogen fuel.