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Lockheed says makes breakthrough on fusion energy project

FordGT90Concept

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And F-22 Raptor. The reason why F-35 is becoming a money pit is because the design is being torn between Air Force, Navy, Marines, and all of the other foreign buyers the USA roped into the JSF program. It's led to a Pandora's Box of expectations which has led to cost overruns to meet those expectations. Remember what F-35 promised: the world's second production, fixed-wing VTOL aircraft. The first being, of course, the venerable Harrier which has the Achilles' Heel the F-35 lacks: subsonic.

ITER is a governmental organization; Lockheed Martin is private. Lockheed has the resources to hire the best and the brightest; governmental organizations tend not to. This doesn't surprise me at all, really. Research Lockheed Skunk Works if you want more information. This is a group of people that are known for doing the impossible.
 

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Uh, people are missing the big picture. If it can fit in the back up a truck then it can fit in a... wait for it... SPACE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

FordGT90Concept

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I don't think there's any reasonable way to turn fusion into space propulsion. It could be used to produce power for electrical systems on ships/satellites/probes though. Lockheed never mentioned what the refueling process is like however (constantly needs more fuel? can be fueled once and last for x length of time? is there a way to slow and accelerate the reaction? and so on).
 

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I don't think there's any reasonable way to turn fusion into space propulsion.

You say that now. But a week ago if someone mentioned the possibility of creating small nuclear reactors you would have said there was any reasonable way to do that.
 
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Uh, people are missing the big picture. If it can fit in the back up a truck then it can fit in a... wait for it... SPACE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or a ship as mentioned , it ww make a sub with much greater range too.
I'm mostly pondering how they are containing the neutrinos emmitted to generate the heat , , that's where the difficulty has been in all other attempts to get this working
 
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Uh, people are missing the big picture. If it can fit in the back up a truck then it can fit in a... wait for it... SPACE SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder if an ion drive could accelerate a ship to relativistic speeds of say 1/10 or 1/4 the speed of light. In theory I can't see why it couldn't if you had enough mass to use for propellant. And you could always harvest more propellant just from traveling through space.

Next step - deflector shields :D
 

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You say that now. But a week ago if someone mentioned the possibility of creating small nuclear reactors you would have said there was any reasonable way to do that.
Yes, I've talked about fusion numerous times in the past. It is a tough nut to crack but when it is cracked, it's the only real answer to fossil fuels. As for propulsion, it goes back to Newton's Laws of Motion. Fusion doesn't support any of them, unfortunately. :(

Or a ship as mentioned , it ww make a sub with much greater range too.
I'm mostly pondering how they are containing the neutrinos emmitted to generate the heat , , that's where the difficulty has been in all other attempts to get this working
Could be an exotic material. Skunk Works has access to a lot of those.
 
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Or a ship as mentioned , it ww make a sub with much greater range too.
I'm mostly pondering how they are containing the neutrinos emmitted to generate the heat , , that's where the difficulty has been in all other attempts to get this working
You probably meant to say neutrons. Neutrinos have almost no mass and barely interact with ordinary matter. You couldn't contain them even if you wanted to. :)
 

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Yes, I've talked about fusion numerous times in the past. It is a tough nut to crack but when it is cracked, it's the only real answer to fossil fuels. As for propulsion, it goes back to Newton's Laws of Motion. Fusion doesn't support any of them, unfortunately. :(.

You could do quite a bit with a massive supply of electricity though....

Imagine this:

Ejecting the crews waste products through a rail gun out of the back of the spacecraft at a portion of light speed. Call it the T(urd) Drive patent pending :D
 
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Lockheed Martin the company who built and designed the F-35 Lightning II LOL

I don't get it ITER have been working on Fusion for years and have many research reactors including the one being built in France but Lockheed suddenly got the fucking chips down?

I think the main problems are containment and sustaining a reaction. Its safer than fisson so even if all they did was replace any old decrepit fission plants it would be better than what we currently have around the planet. Having said that i don't think its a be all end all solution but its hell of a lot better than what we currently use. What i'd like to see is this as a stepping stone.

This could be good for hydrogen power cells; to get hydrogen you need initial splitting of hydrogen and oxygen from water. I read about using photocatalytic water splitting from solar or something to create fuel for hydrogen cells, sounds interesting to me as the problem i had with hydrogen was how they got the hydrogen in the first place. The most popular way of getting hydrogen is hydrocarbons from fossil fuels. They are also looking into ways to use spent nuclear fuel. Hydrogen is probably a hell of a lot better than using a fucking reactor in your car that will produce waste and need reactor walls renewed. I can see why the military might want to use a fussion reactor because they can monitor it and have the funds to service regularly, a regular joe won't take as good care and it will be harder to regulate and monitor a reactor in a car.

Oil industry already has a serious problem; fossil fuels are finite and new drilling techniques are expensive to research and implement. Factor in the rise of research into renewables. Personally i'd like the world to pump money into solar to get the production costs down and efficiency up, theres a lot of positives to solar; jobs creation in service and repair, research, installation, building of the production means, production and creation itself, self sustainability, less of an eyesore ect. Even better if they can get it to create hydrogen fuel.

I don't trust LM to do anything correctly, the F35 is a total joke.

You could do quite a bit with a massive supply of electricity though....

Imagine this:

Ejecting the crews waste products through a rail gun out of the back of the spacecraft at a portion of light speed. Call it the T(urd) Drive patent pending :D

"Brown-ian Motion" lol
 
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Besides hydro, nuclear fission is the cheapest energy source per gigawatt/hr. Nuclear fusion is safe (no radiation, no meltdown) and fusible materials are practically endless in supply. It is not free (nothing is) but compared to current sources of electricity/heat, it is undeniably the cheapest and safest.


Fusion releases high energy neutrons, making the vessel highly radioactive, and weakening the structure due to fatigue. But no different than high energy fission.


I am very excited about this, and it looks good, except the "cost" part, I haven't read anything about that. So start-up costs and maintenance, life cycle and other factors may make this another step in the process and not the unlimited free energy we dream of.


For example, unless they have found a superconductor that works close to plasma temperatures, it will require massive amounts of cryo cooling, and perhaps something like aerogel foam insulation, and precious metals to cover the foam and reflect heat.
 

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You could do quite a bit with a massive supply of electricity though....

Imagine this:

Ejecting the crews.... :D
Woohoo!!!!:rockout::clap::fear:
 
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I don't know if you would have to do anything special in terms of cooling. I found this at what seems to be a knowledgeable website.
In a fusion reactor, the concept is that neutrons generated from the D-T fusion reaction will be absorbed in a blanket containing lithium which surrounds the core. The lithium is then transformed into tritium (which is used to fuel the reactor) and helium. The blanket must be thick enough (about 1 metre) to slow down the high-energy (14 MeV) neutrons. The kinetic energy of the neutrons is absorbed by the blanket, causing it to heat up. The heat energy is collected by the coolant (water, helium or Li-Pb eutectic) flowing through the blanket and, in a fusion power plant, this energy will be used to generate electricity by conventional methods. If insufficient tritium is produced, some supplementary source must be employed such as using a fission reactor to irradiate heavy water or lithium with neutrons, and extraneous tritium creates difficulties with handling, storage and transport.
 
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...or they could opt for Beryllium (well, at least as a part of a composite blanket), since it's very good at reflecting neutrons and conducting heat. It's a bit expensive, but still...
 

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I don't trust LM to do anything correctly, the F35 is a total joke.



"Brown-ian Motion" lol
You don't trust LM to do anything correctly? Same people who brought you the F-22 Raptor? Good to know.

What you will note is a bunch of countries is milking the program for all its worth. That's not the F-35's problem. That's typical government grafting. Here is a GREAT breakdown of why its the worlds fault WAY more then LM's. LM is just trying to make its customers happy.......as long as the check clears.

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-map-explains-the-f-35-fiasco-2014-8

Want to screw a soup up? Have 20 different chefs. Here is a quote.....

One reason why the project has become such a boondoggle is that many states and countries are significantly invested in the plane, relying on its production for income and jobs.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-map-explains-the-f-35-fiasco-2014-8#ixzz3GcHL6UEz

Basically all these countries are "invested" into the F-35 and keep moving the goal posts to keep government kick backs coming in from local companies in their respected countries.

Lockheed is one of the most innovative companies in the world. There isn't a single government entity in the WORLD that can compete with their kind of innovation. They are the definition of what a free market can do.
 
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The only time a government organization got close was the Manhattan Project (and similar all-in projects) and there's two features of projects that get results: 1) secrecy (most government leaders know nothing about it so they can't politicize it) and 2) they're ran like a free enterprise business in that they are objective oriented. The fact is, a second Manhattan Project will never happen because there will never be another Franklin D. Roosevelt. He was practically a dictator ("wartime president") for 3 going on 4 terms. Congress gave him what he asked for the most part and that allowed the Manhattan Project to happen.
 

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The only time a government organization got close was the Manhattan Project (and similar all-in projects) and there's two features of projects that get results: 1) secrecy (most government leaders know nothing about it so they can't politicize it) and 2) they're ran like a free enterprise business in that they are objective oriented. The fact is, a second Manhattan Project will never happen because there will never be another Franklin D. Roosevelt. He was practically a dictator ("wartime president") for 3 going on 4 terms. Congress gave him what he asked for the most part and that allowed the Manhattan Project to happen.


Which is ironic as FDR was basically the father of crony capitalism in the United States. His "New Deal" basically paved the road for the incompetent and worthless government we have today in the United States.
 
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Most basic research, IOW research that looks at basic questions in a field of science, is funded by govt grants. Beyond that, the govt sponsors and pays for about 15% of ALL R&D in the US as of 2011. You can see that in the following chart and by comparing that to the total listed here.



So it's a little silly to point to one example of private industry succeeding in a particular area and from that concluding that govt spending on research is pointless and stupid.
 
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Most basic research, IOW research that looks at basic questions in a field of science, is funded by govt grants. Beyond that, the govt sponsors and pays for about 15% of ALL R&D in the US as of 2011. You can see that in the following chart and by comparing that to the total listed here.



So it's a little silly to point to one example of private industry succeeding in a particular area and from that concluding that govt spending on research is pointless and stupid.
That all depends on what they consider funding and how its attributed to the actual R&D. All that chart shows me is a lot of special interest groups getting paid 300 dollars for toilet seats since 1995 its gone from 150 bucks to 300. Common sense is not so common.
 
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Yup. I'm sure that's where the bulk of the money goes.
 

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Which is ironic as FDR was basically the father of crony capitalism in the United States. His "New Deal" basically paved the road for the incompetent and worthless government we have today in the United States.
Indeed, I don't care for him either. History gives him too much praise. He started the trend of massive executive which breed that crony capitalism that persists today. The government literally has over 2 million hands and the people only semi know what about 500 of those hands are doing. That's the heart of the problem with the USA today and it came from the FDR administration.

But I digress, that is off topic.


Most basic research, IOW research that looks at basic questions in a field of science, is funded by govt grants. Beyond that, the govt sponsors and pays for about 15% of ALL R&D in the US as of 2011. You can see that in the following chart and by comparing that to the total listed here.
Uh, 15%, which means private enterprise is funding 85% of research and that's only research that has public money attached which most companies don't have the political prowess to get any. 15% is pathetic and see the Department of Energy's budget? Fusion-never material.
 
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TheMailMan78

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Yup. I'm sure that's where the bulk of the money goes.
No it goes to worth while projects like Solyndra that they private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot poll. Its all money well spent I'm sure. Not a smidgen of crony capitalism.
 
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Uh, 15%, which means private enterprise is funding 85% of research and that's only research that has public money attached which most companies don't have the political prowess to get any. 15% is pathetic and see the Department of Energy's budget? Fusion-never material.
So basically you're arguing that there should be more govt funding of research. No argument here.

Edit: and as I said, most of the basic research in the US is govt funded. You can see that from the charts in this article. It looks like about half of that research is govt funded.
 
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F-35 bashing aside:

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/lockheed-martin-fusion/

They have a strategy for fusion containment... dynamic magnetic field manipulation... but it sounds theoretical! Maybe they've got a way to sense plasma bubbles or predict them - and a way for the magnetic fields to adjust, and fast enough.
 
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F-35 bashing aside:

http://www.wired.com/2014/10/lockheed-martin-fusion/

They have a strategy for fusion containment... dynamic magnetic field manipulation... but it sounds theoretical! Maybe they've got a way to sense plasma bubbles or predict them - and a way for the magnetic fields to adjust, and fast enough.
Yeah, that sounds strange. I always thought that plasma was slipperier than snail slime. You squeeze it over here and it pops out in 6 different places. IIRC, torus shaped reactors keep the plasma flowing in a circle around the torus - I guess to create some momentum/inertia the plasma would have to overcome to break containment. Dynamically shaping the field in response to changes in the plasma sounds like a very neat trick if they can pull it off.
 
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