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Gamergate

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I'm not talking about those restrictions, I'mtalking about violent video games and blood displayed in games. This issue might have been "fixed" but in the past, they would replace humans with aliens or zombies(carmaggedon) so as to not portray violence against humans. Again, this might not be an issue anymore, I'm not up to date on that one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_gaming_in_Germany#The_USK_and_censorship
Wikipedia said:
Violence in video games is a controversial subject in Germany, and German localisations of violent games are often heavily cut by the publishers to permit a public release. Usually this entails a simple removal or reduction of depictions of blood and gore, but sometimes extends to cuts in the content or plot of the game, as was the case in games such as Counter-Strike and Grand Theft Auto.

All games that are released to the public are required to carry a certificate given by the USK (Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle - Voluntary Monitoring Organisation of Entertainment Software). If the USK refuses certification of a title, it may be, and often is, placed upon the index. The compulsory nature of the USK label was a consequence of the 2003 modification of the Jugendschutzgesetz.

The 2003 changes to the Jugendschutzgesetz also announced an intent to extend the restrictions on the depiction of violence in video gaming, leaving open the possibility of banning any depiction of violence in video gaming, which was met by widespread outcry from the video gaming community in Germany. The then in power CDU/SPD coalition government announced an intention to enact this in 2005, but in November 2006 it was announced that such restrictions would not be enacted at this time.
TL;DR: If your game doesn't get approved by the USK, you're put on the naughty list.

The (likely incomplete) naughty list naughty kids are not supposed to know about.
 
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A lot of games reflect real world society and sexism is prevalent in most societies on this planet. You want to tackle sexism in video games? how about starting with it in general! I don't like how SJW single out computer games as being sexist when only a portion of them are like that and like i said its mostly a societal and cultural thing. Japanese developed games are imo more sexist than games developed in other nations, obviously its a down to dat culture and society thing i've mentioned several times.

What i hate is when a developer tries to shoehorn in a character or event to give it some sense of equality, it just demeans the real thing and imo is worse than just having nothing placed in.

Apart from the obvious typical juggs out vidja gaemz like Dead or Alive i can't remember a totally abhorrent sexist game. Even Grand Theft Auto i find has been just mimicking and mocking real world situations.

The real Gamergame problem is these apple "reporters" giving the medium a bad rap and the awful practises within development/journalism in the industry. I hate people who think their opinion is high and mighty, the ones who even look down on people who play computer games, the fact that journalist where colluding with developers.

Feminism is not egalitarian that's a big part of the problem too.

EDIT: See me this is why i don't give a shit about anything other than playing games, i don't generally listen to this crap but its hard not too in this case because its all just apples.

Anita Sarkeesian feeds off the controversy because its the only way for her to get publicity. She could defuse the situation and get a lot of the hate off her back but doesn't and actually encourages it in a way because like i said the publicity is big and it would disappear.
 
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So this, in my opinion, has hurt the german gamers, why would we want that everywhere and as a response to anything that is wrong with society? GTA has always been a game mocking real life issues and situations, people are supposed to view it as satire, because that's what it is. Saints Row does that too but in a more obvious way...
 

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Feminism is not egalitarian that's a big part of the problem too.
I think a lot of the feminist movement has turned into that but I don't think that's the case for the entire thing. I do however think it would be a stretch to call this argument egalitarian in nature. While games can depict women in the wrong ways, that's all they are... depictions. Video games aren't infringing on women's rights, they're just distasteful. Porn is seemingly distasteful too, but it still exists.

Nothing about this makes a women any more or less capable of making their own decisions. If women don't like games or how they depict women, they can get into game development and change the industry. To say that these games are making it so they have fewer rights then men is ludicrous.

Simply put, women can have all the same rights as men, but something depicting women differently in a fictional setting won't change that. So I personally think this argument is not fairly balanced and that there is a unrealistic expectation that fake women in fictional games need to have rights too which to me sounds insane. Distasteful, yes, right-infringing, absolutely not.
 
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I think a lot of the feminist movement has turned into that but I don't think that's the case for the entire thing. I do however think it would be a stretch to call this argument egalitarian in nature. While games can depict women in the wrong ways, that's all they are... depictions. Video games aren't infringing on women's rights, they're just distasteful. Porn is seemingly distasteful too, but it still exists.

Nothing about this makes a women any more or less capable of making their own decisions. If women don't like games or how they depict women, they can get into game development and change the industry. To say that these games are making it so they have fewer rights then men is ludicrous.

Simply put, women can have all the same rights as men, but something depicting women differently in a fictional setting won't change that. So I personally think this argument is not fairly balanced and that there is a unrealistic expectation that fake women in fictional games need to have rights too which to me sounds insane. Distasteful, yes, right-infringing, absolutely not.
Couldn't have said it better myself, thank you!
 
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Them who? This isn't about what people think about it, this is about what the thing tells us about the world.

It only tells me how people take shit to seriously, cannot do shit these days because one or another will apple about some thing. The games don't do harm it's the people and those who say\ said the game told me to should of been locked up way before they started playing the game.

Either way these people have way to much time on their hands and should pick up a 2nd or 3rd job so they don't have time to trip on BS.

Like shit wait till she see's this LMFAO
http://store.steampowered.com/app/321110/

I preferred the zombie censorship of the original Carmageddon to the untouched version. I did when I was younger (when I didn't know there was a different version) and I still do now. I mean, is there anything better than zombie cows?



Oh please do enlighten us with your almighty wisdom. :slap:

Yeah they appled about the blood being red so they made it green with a patch lol.
 
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There's been an interesting spread of language I've had to clear up on a few posts so far. Keep it civilised guys ;)
 
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Already shared it on the first page.

You're right. Giving her attention is giving her the mind share she wants, but it isn't us that you have to worry about as we would have heard about it and thus formed our own opinions anyway. As RCoon touched on, it's the general public who would have otherwise not have heard about the debate, being alerted by the small minority of people sending death/rape threats. Inevitably the media was to catch on and now the same uninformed people, those who don't game or despise of them, those who were disgusted by and kicked up a stink about say, the Hot Coffee mod even though it wasn't accessible legitimately in-game, are aware of gamergate. The uninformed mass is dangerous. Those are the people you want to worry about. Before we know it classification systems may change for the worse and games will be censored...
 

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The uninformed mass is dangerous. Those are the people you want to worry about. Before we know it classification systems may change for the worse and games will be censored...
Especially because that "mass" includes politicians that are unqualified to address the topic (I distinctly recall Hillary Clinton talking about GTASA Hot Coffee) and they rapidly jump to censorship and/or regulation which are both very bad. Luckily, politicians are too preoccupied with the election, Ebola, and ISIS to address Gamergate right now but if Gamergate doesn't die down by the next term (January), regulations/censorship could be fast-tracked.
 
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Some of these so called feminists need to know what a real struggle is before they DARE squeel about how much they "go thru". I go thru FAR WORSE every day then they do. I had teachers sexually freakin abuse me, I had people abuse me because of my disability, I've had people treat me far worse then these ________ have experienced (death threats for simply being Polish nationality and having my garage firebombed and my parents dogs killed and rocks thrown at me as a baby and toddler). I live in almost poverty and have no support from anyone. They have NO IDEA. They got themselves into their situation and they have to deal with far great reprucussions and possibly, screwing over the people they claim to stand up for.
 
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Some of these so called feminists need to know what a real struggle is before they DARE squeel about how much they "go thru". I go thru FAR WORSE every day then they do. I had teachers sexually freakin abuse me, I had people abuse me because of my disability, I've had people treat me far worse then these ________ have experienced (death threats for simply being Polish nationality and having my garage firebombed and my parents dogs killed and rocks thrown at me as a baby and toddler). I live in almost poverty and have no support from anyone. They have NO IDEA. They got themselves into their situation and they have to deal with far great reprucussions and possibly, screwing over the people they claim to stand up for.

I agree wholeheartedly, there's a massive difference being abused through no fault of your own. I've yet to see these Gamergate implied threats turn into real abuse.

I don't condone threats but people are not exactly trying to defuse the situation, if they really wanted the threats to stop they would at the least try rather than whine. If people want to combat sexism and the subsequent abuse go ahead and do that but please look at the bigger picture rather than blame certain groups. Blaming people isn't going to solve anything anyway it's just hate.

EDIT: I really sympathise with people who go through some bad shit, its a mockery to even suggest that what these gamergate people go through is the same. I think gamers just got sick of being blamed and scapegoated. Sure its not really a big deal but certain people make it a big deal. Mountain out of a molehill ect.
 
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I think a lot of the feminist movement has turned into that but I don't think that's the case for the entire thing. I do however think it would be a stretch to call this argument egalitarian in nature. While games can depict women in the wrong ways, that's all they are... depictions. Video games aren't infringing on women's rights, they're just distasteful. Porn is seemingly distasteful too, but it still exists.

Nothing about this makes a women any more or less capable of making their own decisions. If women don't like games or how they depict women, they can get into game development and change the industry. To say that these games are making it so they have fewer rights then men is ludicrous.

Simply put, women can have all the same rights as men, but something depicting women differently in a fictional setting won't change that. So I personally think this argument is not fairly balanced and that there is a unrealistic expectation that fake women in fictional games need to have rights too which to me sounds insane. Distasteful, yes, right-infringing, absolutely not.

There's a very long convuluted line of thinking amongst Feminists that essentially boils down to; Women are represented poorly in Video Games which causes them a lack of interest in the medium, and means they are less likely to be taken seriously within the industry. This also ties into the idea that gender roles for younger children push women away from the math and science fields required to achieve higher education in fields required to make high budget video games. So in that line of thinking, it's a giant self-feeding cycle. There are disparities in various industries, but the Tech Industry as a whole has come under fire because they have the most money flowing around and "don't promote women in the work place", despite the fact that EA's head of HR has pointed out they go out of their way to hire women (which is essentially gender discrimination) and various companies have gone out of their way to poach women with technical expertise from various other technical fields.

I agree that these games are not infringing on the rights of women. I also find it interesting that Gamergate has successfully flipped peoples entire view on Video Games in the opposite direction. Pre-GG thinking was that Video Games were Art and the artist had the right to do whatever they want, also that the idea of Video Games influencing the players behavior was ridiculous and factually inaccurate. Now though, we're told Video Games are part of Culture and therefore need to be more politically correct and have disproportionate representations of Women and the LGBT community, and that violence in video games is a real danger, especially violence against women. Im sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either Video Games are art, and society dictating what they can and cannot express is censorship, or they are just toys and society can control the entire medium.

There's also the interesting effect on Games Journalism I've seen since this nonsense started. They started GamerGate as a way to combat Zoe Quinn via harassment (fact), and then they switched to it being about ethics in journalism, and now it's about fuck-all who knows. But since GG came around I've seen the opposite of their intention--a marked decrease in the quality of reporting from Gaming Sites. A prime example is the site Polygon. I was a big fan of that site (especially their features which were amazingly informative and in depth) and browsed it regularly. Since GG they have done a ton of articles on random games trying to tie them into this nonsense "controversy" and sunk so low as claiming the creator of the controversial game Hatred is a Neo-Nazi, and citing a god damn Tumblr blog named "Fuck NO Video Games".

This whole situation is ridiculous. It's a bunch of people using a vocal minority as an indication of the Video Game Communities unwillingness to accept social change in the medium, while that vocal minority is clearly spearheaded by a bunch of sociopaths claiming it's about "ethics in game journalism" while viciously harassing every woman in the industry. Just stop, everyone. This is getting embarassing.
 

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There's a very long convuluted line of thinking amongst Feminists that essentially boils down to; Women are represented poorly in Video Games which causes them a lack of interest in the medium, and means they are less likely to be taken seriously within the industry. This also ties into the idea that gender roles for younger children push women away from the math and science fields required to achieve higher education in fields required to make high budget video games. So in that line of thinking, it's a giant self-feeding cycle. There are disparities in various industries, but the Tech Industry as a whole has come under fire because they have the most money flowing around and "don't promote women in the work place", despite the fact that EA's head of HR has pointed out they go out of their way to hire women (which is essentially gender discrimination) and various companies have gone out of their way to poach women with technical expertise from various other technical fields.

I agree that these games are not infringing on the rights of women. I also find it interesting that Gamergate has successfully flipped peoples entire view on Video Games in the opposite direction. Pre-GG thinking was that Video Games were Art and the artist had the right to do whatever they want, also that the idea of Video Games influencing the players behavior was ridiculous and factually inaccurate. Now though, we're told Video Games are part of Culture and therefore need to be more politically correct and have disproportionate representations of Women and the LGBT community, and that violence in video games is a real danger, especially violence against women. Im sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Either Video Games are art, and society dictating what they can and cannot express is censorship, or they are just toys and society can control the entire medium.

There's also the interesting effect on Games Journalism I've seen since this nonsense started. They started GamerGate as a way to combat Zoe Quinn via harassment (fact), and then they switched to it being about ethics in journalism, and now it's about fuck-all who knows. But since GG came around I've seen the opposite of their intention--a marked decrease in the quality of reporting from Gaming Sites. A prime example is the site Polygon. I was a big fan of that site (especially their features which were amazingly informative and in depth) and browsed it regularly. Since GG they have done a ton of articles on random games trying to tie them into this nonsense "controversy" and sunk so low as claiming the creator of the controversial game Hatred is a Neo-Nazi, and citing a god damn Tumblr blog named "Fuck NO Video Games".

This whole situation is ridiculous. It's a bunch of people using a vocal minority as an indication of the Video Game Communities unwillingness to accept social change in the medium, while that vocal minority is clearly spearheaded by a bunch of sociopaths claiming it's about "ethics in game journalism" while viciously harassing every woman in the industry. Just stop, everyone. This is getting embarassing.

I agree, but the most damning part of all of this is that it's done in the name of feminism, which is stupid when this is an issue that stems out further than that. It should be done for the mutual respect of all human beings, but strictly pulling apart games for how women and lgbt community members are represented is a one sided argument. You can't talk about one without talking about the entire game and the problem I have is with all this cherry-picking.

I'm not saying GG doesn't have an argument that isn't worth thinking about, I'm just pissed off with how it was approached. Take one game at a time, thoroughly review it and make a write up and do one at a time. When you merge everything into one, you're saying that all games are being evaluated the same way for the same problem, which doesn't work because of the differences in games, content, and context.

I am saying that GG needed to be more thorough for individual games instead of quickly taking bad scenes from a ton of games that are out of context. Otherwise it looks like a rant from a women who doesn't know what she's talking about. Not to mention she does a piss poor job of hiding her bias which instantly makes me question the validity of the assessment in the first place. That is all.

It's like me as a developer going up to a Chef while he's working and telling him how to do his job. Not only will he or she laugh/yell/swear at me, he or she will call me stupid and kick me out. I feel GG has that same feeling too. She's talking about something she's not experienced with and the over-usage of cherry picking is a clear sign as almost everything is ripped out of context. She is however, experienced at pick out things that make he feel uncomfortable as a women but she has a really hard time providing the full context in which that event occurred.

My issue is the lack of detail in the analysis, not the subject. People who try to talk about something they're not experienced with really do deserve a critical response.

She needs to pick one game, go through all of it, then do a write up. That's the only way people will listen and that's with a detailed report, not an out-of-context mess like GG.
 
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Messages
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Location
Louisiana
System Name Frankenrig
Processor i7-3770@3.70Ghz
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Cooling Xigmatex Dark Knight II cpu cooler, 5x140mm Fractal Design fans
Memory 4x4Gb Mushkin DDR3-1600
Video Card(s) MSI GTX 970 100ME
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Case White Fractal Desigh Define R4
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1 PCI
Power Supply Seasonic X-850
Software W8.1 64bit
From an independent female's pov: I do not see where games objectify or promote violence against women. Women want equal rights in society as well as in the workforce; we cannot have it both ways. Women are just as capable of being violent as men and men are just as vulnerable to being objectified....as long as games are not promoting rape or violent crimes, I don't see an issue. Games do not promote violence against or objectify women anymore than the movie industry (including Disney films) and anyone that was taught right from wrong, good morals and ethics can differentiate between real life and fantasy. Unfortunately in our society, sex sells everything...whether it's objectifying men to appeal to women or vice versa...I feel that feminists need to put their big girl panties on and face the ugly truth. We don't hear of men objecting to being objectified.
 
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