exposing nVidia's latest ploy

[anubis44]

Now I understand why nVidia decided to release the GTX970 and 980 cards on 28nm early, instead of waiting for the next process node shrink to 20nm at TSM early next year, like they normally would, and why nVidia is suddenly, mysteriously charging a lot less for their hardware. And it has nothing to do with playing Santa Claus this year. More like they're playing Santa 'Clause.'

Here's my thinking. nVidia heard earlier this year that DX12 will not exist for Windows 7:

http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/devel...ently-directx-12-wont-be-coming-to-windows-7/

Since Mantle allows for most of the features of DX12 (ie. shed-loads of draw-calls without performance hit) without having to buy Windows 10, this means AMD Radeon users could stick with Windows 7 if a game has Mantle functionality, but nVidia users WOULD have to update. This would embarrass the hell out of nVida and invariably annoy nVidia card owners, who might even start pressuring nVidia to <gasp> support AMD's Mantle. Or worse, it might pursuade legions of buyers to go AMD in order to get Mantle support so they can keep Windows 7.

Seeing the potential danger of this situation, nVidia decided to pull out all the stops to boost their numbers of cards sold in the immediate term in order to lock in as many customers as possible for the big news hit (which is now) and hopefully, to get as many game developers to ignore Mantle as possible and not bother with a Mantle version of their upcoming DX12 game. This will also mean that more gamers will have to move to Windows 10 anyhow, so they can run DX12, which will reduce the relevance of Mantle.

If we spread the word about this nefarious scheme, we can head them off at the pass, as it were. Everybody who cares about no getting screwed over and forced to upgrade to Windows 10, just so they can play a game, should go forth unto all the tech websites and expose this insidious ploy before it can fully succeed.

 

[Jstn7477]

Too bad my GTX 980 is way faster and uses less power than my R9 290 does, by a lot. Also, Windows 10 may be a free upgrade for Windows 8 users anyway, but I'm guessing you're hanging on to 7 (I still use it on this 5820K/GTX 980 desktop for now, haven't bothered redoing it since early 2013.)

Also, DX12 exclusivity should be of little concern as there is plenty of DX11 and even DX10 hardware still around, even have a few friends with GTX 260s and Core 2 Duos still...

 

[the54thvoid]

I'd ditch what you're smoking.

Your Avatar says it all frankly (AMD much).

How about Mantle. It's great yes. But it's far from universally used. In fact very far. Also, DX11 with Kepler architecture in 780ti form still handles games exceptionally well. GM204, moreso. I'd suggest Nvidia released Maxwell now because they could. And they could make lots of money from it. It's not a nefarious plot, it's business.

Nvidia have the financial clout to bury Mantle. All they need to do is keep buying off developers with TWIMTBP or Gameworks. They didn't need Maxwell for that. Maxwell was released as a next step towards lower power gpu devices. Nvidia probably couldn't give a shit about Mantle.

Also, people like to upgrade to new and cool OS's, so if Win 10 is more like Win7 but with Win8 power and functionality, people will migrate to it anyway.

No, GM204 isn't about hobbling Mantle, it was about releasing a better card than GK110 with far lower costs to Nvidia for greater overheads. Sweet FA to do with Mantle.

 

[64K]

OP the GTX 970 was a bargain but the GTX 980 doesn't fit with your claim of setting the price unusually low.

 

[Athlon2K15]

Fuck AMD, their shit has sucked for 10 years enough of there trying to play catch up just fail already. we are all waiting

 

[erocker]

Sounds to me like Nvidia is doing a good job of selling video cards to people... Which is their primary function. So.. uh, okay.

Athlon, your post is a bit ridiculous.

 

[GreiverBlade]

aherm ... Mantle can run on nvidia gpu's if they ... "would want to" Mantle is open ended just as DX is ... tho

Fuck AMD, their shit has sucked for 10 years enough of there trying to play catch up just fail already. we are all waiting

non required post...

so yep pretty much that

OP the GTX 970 was a bargain but the GTX 980 doesn't fit with your claim of setting the price unusually low.

I'd ditch what you're smoking.

Your Avatar says it all frankly (AMD much).

How about Mantle. It's great yes. But it's far from universally used. In fact very far. Also, DX11 with Kepler architecture in 780ti form still handles games exceptionally well. GM204, moreso. I'd suggest Nvidia released Maxwell now because they could. And they could make lots of money from it. It's not a nefarious plot, it's business.

Nvidia have the financial clout to bury Mantle. All they need to do is keep buying off developers with TWIMTBP or Gameworks. They didn't need Maxwell for that. Maxwell was released as a next step towards lower power gpu devices. Nvidia probably couldn't give a shit about Mantle.

Also, people like to upgrade to new and cool OS's, so if Win 10 is more like Win7 but with Win8 power and functionality, people will migrate to it anyway.

No, GM204 isn't about hobbling Mantle, it was about releasing a better card than GK110 with far lower costs to Nvidia for greater overheads. Sweet FA to do with Mantle.

well if my 290 wasn't 4time cheaper than a 980 (and 2time cheaper than a 970) tho i can thank nvidia for the 2nd hand price lowering on the 290/290X i would have already jumped on it (the 9XX serie i mean)

agreed

Sounds to me like Nvidia is doing a good job of selling video cards to people... Which is their primary function. So.. uh, okay.

 

[Athlon2K15]

Sounds to me like Nvidia is doing a good job of selling video cards to people... Which is their primary function. So.. uh, okay.

Athlon, your post is a bit ridiculous.

my post is leet @erocker

 

[vega22]

i kinda agree dude, but why would they not?

been a while since nv did a 88gt and the 970 is another imo.

good gpu for a great price. they should of done it with the 600s too as like the 9s they where mid ranged cards priced as high end too...

as for the power angle, i saw this yesterday and it made me wonder exactly how big an issue it really is.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/68...8gb-vapor-x-oc-video-card-review/index16.html

 

[GhostRyder]

I don't see the GTX 9XX series being any plot in place and more of the usual release cycle that was brought on to beat the holiday season where people are more likely to be looser with their wallets and make a purchase hence why we even have the GTX 970 being a top notch deal.

Nvidia chose to stay on 28nm instead of wait/hope for 20nm (or 16 eventually) and stuck with an improved 28nm GPU which showed more of an improvement in the realm of power efficiency. It was a choice they made to sell cards before the competition which is nothing out of the ordinary from my perspective...

 

[thebluebumblebee]

OP the GTX 970 was a bargain but the GTX 980 doesn't fit with your claim of setting the price unusually low.

What was the price of the 780 Ti when it came out?

Fuck AMD, their shit has sucked for 10 years enough of there trying to play catch up just fail already. we are all waiting

As long as you forget about the HD58xx when it came out. And the LAST thing we want is for there to be only one GPU provider.

 

[64K]

You can't compare the Flagship GTX 780 Ti Kepler GK110 to a mid range GTX 980 GM204.

 

[PainfulByte]

@64K I like it when you speak about my GPU that way... Makes me want to hold on to it a bit longer.

Thank you.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

You can't compare the Flagship GTX 780 Ti Kepler GK110 to a mid range GTX 980 GM204.

But they just did and nothing broke. Why can't I compare an older flagship architecture to a new one. If the new arch is good then even a mid end chip with the new tech should compete well against the best of the old arch. Seem like a reasonable comparison to me.

 

[RCoon]

But like... nothing uses Mantle. Battlefield 4, Thief (people still care?), Lichdom: Battlemage. The only one anyone cares about is BF4, and even then, it runs dandy on everything else anyway. Nvidia aren't worried about Mantle. Frankly, nobody is worried about Mantle.
Whatever caused NVidia to sell 970's at such a low price, it worked catastrophically well, and broke damn near every GPU selling record to date. Every Tom, Dick and Harry, as well as Harry's gaming grandma has a 970. I reckon they made more money from Maxwell's first two weeks of launch than Kepler did during its life (excluding GPGPU parts).

 

[erocker]

What was the price of the 780 Ti when it came out?

As long as you forget about the HD58xx when it came out. And the LAST thing we want is for there to be only one GPU provider.

The last card I bought was a 7970 when it was released. Still have it, still using it for gaming at 14440p and it still works great.

*I should mention that Mantle means absolutely nothing to me, nor do I use it.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Seems like an attempt of click bait too me.

 

[15th Warlock]

So dx12 is gonna be backwards compatible with pretty much any nvidia card Fermi and up as shown by Microsoft during the dx12 presentations.

And mantle only works with a very few games, so what difference does it really make?

I think you need to take that tin hat off... :/

Like others said, this thread smells of nothing but flame bait, so... In before the lock I guess?

 

[the54thvoid]

... so... In before the lock I guess?

Not before I say...

The last card I bought was a 7970 when it was released. Still have it, still using it for gaming at 14440p

14,440p? You game on an IMAX screen?

Sorry, some typo's can be fun

 

[Champ]

But like... nothing uses Mantle. Battlefield 4, Thief (people still care?), Lichdom: Battlemage. The only one anyone cares about is BF4, and even then, it runs dandy on everything else anyway. Nvidia aren't worried about Mantle. Frankly, nobody is worried about Mantle.
Whatever caused NVidia to sell 970's at such a low price, it worked catastrophically well, and broke damn near every GPU selling record to date. Every Tom, Dick and Harry, as well as Harry's gaming grandma has a 970. I reckon they made more money from Maxwell's first two weeks of launch than Kepler did during its life (excluding GPGPU parts).

I agree. Mantle makes BF4 and Dragon Age run like crap. I wish I hadn't cheaped out and went green team.

 

[OneMoar]

amd are crap if I didn't get this 7970 for 120.00 bucks I would have went with a gtx 770...
Mantle is Hype nothing more its really not all the great if you take the time to read there sdk

 

[64K]

But they just did and nothing broke. Why can't I compare an older flagship architecture to a new one. If the new arch is good then even a mid end chip with the new tech should compete well against the best of the old arch. Seem like a reasonable comparison to me.

Yes, it is common for a mid range GPU of a new generation to surpass the performance of the last generation Flagship. We saw that when the mid range GTX 680 GK104 outperformed the Fermi flagship GTX 580 GF110 GPU. I was replying to thebluebumblebee in post #11 where he seems to be disputing what I said before about the price of the GTX 980 GM204 is not abnormally low. In fact it is $50 higher that the GTX 680 on release which it is the successor to.

64K said: ↑
OP the GTX 970 was a bargain but the GTX 980 doesn't fit with your claim of setting the price unusually low.
What was the price of the 780 Ti when it came out?

We will see the successor to the Flagship GTX 780 Ti when the full chip Flagship GM210 comes out. I suspect it will be $700-$750 then that will be a fair comparison price wise.

 

[Frag_Maniac]

That analogy is banking on a LOT of games using Mantle, and using it well OP, and I just don't see that being the case.

If anything I think Nvidia are just showing the gaming world that they can as easily take the value crown as the power crown. There's still a lot of AMD GPUs priced higher than they should be post 900 series launch, and now that the 900s are in stock, most of them are just sitting on the shelf.

Aside from that, even if the OS thing were a factor, most avid gamers I see are quick to upgrade their OS for gaming performance, esp if something as significant as a low level API is a key selling point. Compared to the accumulative wallet drain of games, it's not much really.

 

[OneMoar]

I have always said if nvida/intel gave 2 fucks about amd they would price them out of existence
if they dropped the 970 to say ~250.00
if intel dropped the price of the 4670k to ~180.00
it would be over for AMD they would be kaput inside a year there overhead and costs are continuous bleeding of money it would be a disaster

 

[Frag_Maniac]

I have always said if nvida/intel gave to fucks about amd they would price them out of existence

LOL, very true.