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exposing nVidia's latest ploy

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when the news broke from Richard Huddy that there will be no DX12 for Win7

Everybody knew this since Vista. Microsoft does not provide DX support for OSs that aren't their primary concern. I knew DX12 wouldn't be supported on Windows 7 when Windows 8 came out, and everybody in the industry knew that too. None of us were surprised when this news leaked. Everybody was expecting it, he merely confirmed a worldwide assumption.

nVidia doesn't want to support Mantle

Kinda like how Microsoft doesn't support .pages files from OSX. They are competitors, competitors do not support each other.

AMD card can play in Windows 7 using Mantle

There is currently a single interesting game running mantle. Nobody is going to buy AMD for mantle when there are no more interesting/AAA titles that include mantle. Unless the entire gaming industry pops over to AMD, accepts a bribe, and then programs all future games for mantle support, then this is merely a pipe dream. DX12 support in mantle means nothing when there aren't any games that use mantle in the first place.
Also look and see how quickly new DX API's get utilised by games. It takes years for developers to switch between DX APIs.
 
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My apologies, slip of the brain. It WAS 6 years ago!

I meant the GTX9800 series was so crushed by the 4850 and 4870 series. The GTX260 and 280 were the response to this.




It's not even funny how AMD fanboys are addicted to AMD.
 
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Where are the facts in that first post? Looked like speculation and theory to me...

When I said, 'here's my thinking', it was meant to convey the context that this is a theory. I never held out that I could prove anything, but I did try to support the theory with as much factual information as possible. That's what makes it a theory rather then merely a myth.
 

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My point about low nVidia pricing is mainly that the GTX970 was priced (and currently still is) approximately $120-$170 less than the similarly performing AMD equivalent (R9 290X). nVidia does not typically price their new cards at such a discount relative to the performance equivalent AMD cards: they normally try to make as much money as possible, and price their performance equivalent cards roughly at par (within ~$20-$30) of AMD's equivalents, banking on their brand-name to somehow persuade people to buy them over the AMD equivalent.

I was simply curious about:

1) Why did nVidia break with their usual habit of 2nd quarter release timeframe?
2) Why did they price the GTX970 at a $120-$170 discount (this is an absolute firesale by nVidia standards)
3) Why didn't they wait until 20nm production at TSM for their next generation chip?

Any one of these things might not have piqued my curiosity, but all three together did. Then, when the news broke from Richard Huddy that there will be no DX12 for Win7, and that this information was certain to leak out before the end of the year, it occurred to me that:

A) nVidia knew this information at least by the beginning of this year.
B) nVidia knew that they could lose some sales to AMD if gamers knew they could play games using Mantle in Windows 7 that would otherwise require DX12 to play smoothly due to shed loads of draw calls.

nVidia doesn't want to support Mantle, even though they could. They don't want to even acknowledge AMD's existence. So, IMHO, they cynically calculated that if they released Maxwell higher end cards on the old 28nm (this is now the third generation of nVidia chips on 28nm) in September of this year, before the 'no DX12 for Windows 7' news broke, and they discounted them heavily, especially the GTX970, they'd sell more cards before the news broke than if they waited for 20nm, after the news broke. The reasoning is, if a gamer is faced with the choice of an nVidia card that needs a Windows 8/10 upgrade to play the same game that an equivalent AMD card can play in Windows 7 using Mantle, many gamers, all other things being equal, would likely opt for the AMD card, as it saves them the money and hassle of upgrading to a new Windows that probably doesn't provide them with very much except DX12. That's all I'm speculating.

If this is true, it's a pretty cynical ploy, as the alternative would simply be to support Mantle, and it would show how desperate nVidia is not to show any support for AMD technology, and to grab people's money before their products look less attractive.

In answer to question two I already said before that the GTX 970 is a bargain at $350. It's predecessor in the Kepler lineup the GTX 670 was priced $50 higher on release. The GTX 980 is not a bargain imo for $550 for an 11% to 13% increase in performance depending on resolution over the GTX 970. The GTX 980's predecessor the Kepler lineup the GTX 680 was priced $50 cheaper on release.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_970_STRIX_OC/25.html
 
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Everybody knew this since Vista. Microsoft does not provide DX support for OSs that aren't their primary concern. I knew DX12 wouldn't be supported on Windows 7 when Windows 8 came out, and everybody in the industry knew that too. None of us were surprised when this news leaked. Everybody was expecting it, he merely confirmed a worldwide assumption.



Kinda like how Microsoft doesn't support .pages files from OSX. They are competitors, competitors do not support each other.



There is currently a single interesting game running mantle. Nobody is going to buy AMD for mantle when there are no more interesting/AAA titles that include mantle. Unless the entire gaming industry pops over to AMD, accepts a bribe, and then programs all future games for mantle support, then this is merely a pipe dream. DX12 support in mantle means nothing when there aren't any games that use mantle in the first place.
Also look and see how quickly new DX API's get utilised by games. It takes years for developers to switch between DX APIs.

Everyone had an opinion about DX12 on Windows 7, but it wasn't confirmed until recently. There is a difference.

Now, card buyers are faced with a certainty that they will have to upgrade from Windows 7 to get past the draw call limits of DX11 unless the game supports Mantle. The point is not that this is a 'surprise', it's confirmation that you must now choose a graphics card with the knowledge that an nVidia card will likely mean a Windows upgrade, but an AMD card might allow you to delay this upgrade. Don't know about you, but I'm happy to save the hassle and money of a Windows upgrade if I can. My point was that nVidia knew this equation would confront card buyers once the confirmation hit, and that it would likely lose them sales if they didn't push a variant of Maxwell out the door beforehand, so that's what they did.
 
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Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
When I said, 'here's my thinking', it was meant to convey the context that this is a theory. I never held out that I could prove anything, but I did try to support the theory with as much factual information as possible. That's what makes it a theory rather then merely a myth.
Uhh huh.. its a theory, and so are your 'facts' to support your theory. You are merely speculating in the first post. Don't kid yourself. ;)
 
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Uhh huh.. its a theory, and so are your 'facts' to support your theory.

Well, the link to the article about Richard Huddy is the best information we have about DX12. He has been reprimanded for letting the cat out of the bag, but I hardly think we can ignore his unequivocal statement, considering the information he has available to him. I'd say that he's a credible source, so I'd say it qualifies as a fact.
 

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Everyone had an opinion about DX12 on Windows 7, but it wasn't confirmed until recently. There is a difference.

Now, card buyers are faced with a certainty that they will have to upgrade from Windows 7 to get past the draw call limits of DX11 unless the game supports Mantle. The point is not that this is a 'surprise', it's confirmation that you must now choose a graphics card with the knowledge that an nVidia card will likely mean a Windows upgrade, but an AMD card might allow you to delay this upgrade. Don't know about you, but I'm happy to save the hassle and money of a Windows upgrade if I can. My point was that nVidia knew this equation would confront card buyers once the confirmation hit, and that it would likely lose them sales if they didn't push a variant of Maxwell out the door beforehand, so that's what they did.

It's not a surprise that MS is doing this. They did it with DX10 and Vista but Nvidia isn't involved in a secret plot to sell more copies on Win 10.
 
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Everyone had an opinion about DX12 on Windows 7, but it wasn't confirmed until recently. There is a difference.

No, I think everyone, including AMD and NVidia were fully aware there would be zero DX12 on Windows 7. It is not MS's MO to include DX API's in previous OS's.

Now, card buyers are faced with a certainty that they will have to upgrade from Windows 7 to get past the draw call limits of DX11

I think most people on Windows 7 kinda want to upgrade to something, as long as it's not Windows 8. Then again I can't speak for everyone. As a card buyer myself, I could not care less about DX12, because I know full well it's going to be at least 2 years from now until DX12 actually gets used in games. By then I'll probably have a new OS, and a new GPU.
 
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Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Well, the link to the article about Richard Huddy is the best information we have about DX12. He has been reprimanded for letting the cat out of the bag, but I hardly think we can ignore his unequivocal statement, considering the information he has available to him. I'd say that he's a credible source, so I'd say it qualifies as a fact.
Yeah, with respect, I think you are wearing rose colored glasses my man... I agree with his talking points, but they don't support your theories. I mean sure, it is a fact Nvidia users would have to upgrade, sure, after that, you are reaching with your own opinion.
 
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It's not a surprise that MS is doing this. They did it with DX10 and Vista but Nvidia isn't involved in a secret plot to sell more copies on Win 10.

I never said nVidia was trying to sell more copies of Win 10, I said some people might choose an AMD card if it means not having to buy Windows 10, at least for a while longer. nVidia knew this could happen, so they pushed for the 28nm Maxwell in September, rather than the April 2015 Maxwell on 20nm.

Obviously, if we find out that 20nm is confirmed as unavailable for GPU production for early next year, my theory may be wrong. It all depends on what nVidia knew and what they didn't know when the made this decision, and whether there were any other factors in the equation beyond the ones of which I'm aware. I'm perfectly happy to be proven wrong, but 'I want proof, not leads.' :)
 
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Yeah, with respect, I think you are wearing rose colored glasses my man... I agree with his talking points, but they don't support your theories. I mean sure, it is a fact Nvidia users would have to upgrade, sure, after that, you are reaching with your own opinion.

And that's all I've ever maintained. That it's a theory: i.e. an opinion, supported with some facts.

Thanks for the reasonable reply.
 
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No, you mentioned your theory is supported with facts.. Its not. Its your opinion of what Nvidia is doing based of what he said is happening with DX12. Its a leap of faith at best, blatant fanboy perspective at worst. Be honest with yourself. :)
 

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I don't get it. Nvidia releases some killer GPU's and everyone suddenly drones on about how AMD has been behind Nvidia since Adams granddad. It Is The Way Of Things IMO. The wheel of Nvidia besting AMD and then AMD besting Nvidia.
 
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I don't get it. Nvidia releases some killer GPU's and everyone suddenly drones on about how AMD has been behind Nvidia since Adams granddad. It Is The Way Of Things IMO. The wheel of Nvidia besting AMD and then AMD besting Nvidia.

Thank you for some reality. Conspiracy theories aside, the R9 series came out well over a year ago and crushed NVidia. How could AMD have even known what/when would be in Windows in 2013? Now NVidia has the upper hand. Lather, rinse, repeat.
 

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My point about low nVidia pricing is mainly that the GTX970 was priced (and currently still is - though in Canada, it's impossible to find a new one cheaper than $380) approximately $120-$170 less than the similarly performing AMD equivalent (R9 290X). nVidia does not typically price their new cards at such a discount relative to the performance equivalent AMD cards: they normally try to make as much money as possible, and price their performance equivalent cards roughly at par (within ~$20-$30) of AMD's equivalents, banking on their brand-name to somehow persuade people to buy them over the AMD equivalent.

I was simply curious about:

1) Why did nVidia break with their usual habit of 2nd quarter release timeframe?
2) Why did they price the GTX970 at a $120-$170 discount (this is an absolute firesale by nVidia standards)
3) Why didn't they wait until 20nm production at TSM for their next generation chip?

Any one of these things might not have piqued my curiosity, but all three together did. Then, when the news broke from Richard Huddy that there will be no DX12 for Win7, and that this information was certain to leak out before the end of the year, it occurred to me that:

A) nVidia knew this information at least by the beginning of this year.
B) nVidia knew that they could lose some sales to AMD if gamers knew they could play games using Mantle in Windows 7 that would otherwise require DX12 to play smoothly due to shed loads of draw calls.

nVidia doesn't want to support Mantle, even though they could. They don't want to even acknowledge AMD's existence. So, IMHO, they cynically calculated that if they released Maxwell higher end cards on the old 28nm (this is now the third generation of nVidia chips on 28nm) in September of this year, before the 'no DX12 for Windows 7' news broke, and they discounted them heavily, especially the GTX970, they'd sell more cards before the news broke than if they waited for 20nm, after the news broke. The reasoning is, if a gamer is faced with the choice of an nVidia card that needs a Windows 8/10 upgrade to play the same game that an equivalent AMD card can play in Windows 7 using Mantle, many gamers, all other things being equal, would likely opt for the AMD card, as it saves them the money and hassle of upgrading to a new Windows that probably doesn't provide them with very much except DX12. That's all I'm speculating.

If this is true, it's a pretty cynical ploy, as the alternative would simply be to support Mantle, and it would show how desperate nVidia is not to show any support for AMD technology, and to grab people's money before their products look less attractive.
im not sure what you're smoking but I want some too :D
 
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Good lord, you're pushing some really heavy stupid buttons there anubis44.

1) DO NOT DOUBLE POST. Tired of saying this, because reading the base rules should have been done prior to post one. After having been told multiple times, you continue to do this crap. Either learn and follow the rules, or find somewhere else to talk.
2) When you say it is my opinion, you divorce yourself from requiring facts. Looking at the title of this thread, which is "exposing nVidia's latest ploy" in case you've forgotten, you start by spitting in the face of facts. You link together random bits of data, cobble together conspiracy based conclusions, and don't listen to anyone presenting other points of view. This is not supporting your point, it is yelling louder than the opposition in order to make your point seem more important.
3) Why did you assume Dx12 would be on Windows 7. MS already released 11.2, and it was an 8.1 exclusive. In exactly what world do you believe MS would suddenly go back on this idea, and make Dx12 run on Windows 7? Stating that it wasn't confirmed is like saying you don't know dog poop tastes bad until you eat some. While technically true, it's a stupid point. If that somehow is unclear, I'd like for you to confirm that conjecture about some dog poo in my front lawn.

4) Why did Nvidea release a new GPU right around the holiday season? I can't believe I have to answer such a stupid question. Nvidea released new cards so they had product to sell for the holidays. If they released a reasonably priced card, which does show some improvement, they've got something that will print money. The development for this particular product has almost all been underwritten by the 7xx series cards, so little overhead and a new product will line Nvidea's coffers nicely.
5) Why isn't AMD releasing a new GPU now? That one is also simple. AMD has the console market locked down. They've developed for the current production node, and are staunchly waiting for TSMC to be able to roll out production on the smaller node. Rather than getting into a pricing war with Nvidea, AMD has decided to focus their resources toward other things. It's at this point I'd like to refer to your own "evidence" about the Zen redesign. That kind of development is likely draining AMD's resources, and is why they aren't releasing a new card for this holiday season. Nothing even mildly conspiracy driven there.


Assuming you don't agree with any of the above logic, you're going to have to tell me why any of this is terrible. AMD was immensely lucky that they had compute heavy cards when the coin crunching markets came about, so the R9xx series sold well. It wasn't worth a conspiracy theory that AMD started the crunching market? Nvidea and AMD compete in so much as one is always a step behind the other. The highest end cards trade blows, but in my experience the big mover cards are positioned such that AMD wins on price : performance, while Nvidea wins on pure performance. This is why I said AMD has been behind Nvidea for the last decade. I'm sure you can throw synthetic benches out, which shows the highest end AMD and Nvidea cards trade blows. At the same time, Nvidea sells an order of magnitude more 970s than 980s. AMD isn't a bad company because of their choices, Nvidea isn't a good one for its choices, and there is no reasonable basis for the claims that Nvidea is in the middle of some elaborate hoax to damage AMD.



For a moment, let's look at Nvidea. They don't like competition, but realistically they need it. AMD cards on the market prevent accusations of price fixing, monopolies, and actually allow you to sell your cards. Compare X to Y, and Y is better; you will therefore buy Y. If you were to look at Y one generation ago versus now, you'd see a 100% increase in cost, with a 7% increase in performance. Nobody in their right mind would buy that. In contrast, frame it as Y this generation beats X this generation by 5%, at only 104% the cost and it appears to be a steal. The thrifty consumer buys X, because the price decrease means more to them. While AMD will take a bath on sales, they will move units because of a price drop. Both AMD and Nvidea are benefiting from Nvidea releasing a new card, yet you aren't calling that a conspiracy.

Boiling this whole thing down; GIGO. You take garbage facts, extrapolate insane theories, and produce garbage conspiracy theories. Both of these companies are using their competition to move cards, by demonstrating their features in different ways. You look at facts, and Nvidea wins. You look at relative value comparisons, and AMD wins. Both companies selectively demonstrate truths, to get their units out the door. If this practice is unacceptable I suggest you find a communist utopia somewhere to live. Capitalism, for better and worse, is as much about your lies as it is your truths. If this system is unacceptable to the point of you conjecturing boogie-men you'll wind up in a nut house once you see the crap people do to control raw resources. If you want a real conspiracy, look-up aluminum billet sales.


Edit:
Darn emoticons. I'm use to a colon between two compared values, but forgot that is automatically made into that stupid emoticon. Hopefully this has rectified it.
 
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Good lord, you're pushing some really heavy stupid buttons there anubis44.

1) DO NOT DOUBLE POST. Tired of saying this, because reading the base rules should have been done prior to post one. After having been told multiple times, you continue to do this crap. Either learn and follow the rules, or find somewhere else to talk.
2) When you say it is my opinion, you divorce yourself from requiring facts. Looking at the title of this thread, which is "exposing nVidia's latest ploy" in case you've forgotten, you start by spitting in the face of facts. You link together random bits of data, cobble together conspiracy based conclusions, and don't listen to anyone presenting other points of view. This is not supporting your point, it is yelling louder than the opposition in order to make your point seem more important.
3) Why did you assume Dx12 would be on Windows 7. MS already released 11.2, and it was an 8.1 exclusive. In exactly what world do you believe MS would suddenly go back on this idea, and make Dx12 run on Windows 7? Stating that it wasn't confirmed is like saying you don't know dog poop tastes bad until you eat some. While technically true, it's a stupid point. If that somehow is unclear, I'd like for you to confirm that conjecture about some dog poo in my front lawn.

4) Why did Nvidea release a new GPU right around the holiday season? I can't believe I have to answer such a stupid question. Nvidea released new cards so they had product to sell for the holidays. If they released a reasonably priced card, which does show some improvement, they've got something that will print money. The development for this particular product has almost all been underwritten by the 7xx series cards, so little overhead and a new product will line Nvidea's coffers nicely.
5) Why isn't AMD releasing a new GPU now? That one is also simple. AMD has the console market locked down. They've developed for the current production node, and are staunchly waiting for TSMC to be able to roll out production on the smaller node. Rather than getting into a pricing war with Nvidea, AMD has decided to focus their resources toward other things. It's at this point I'd like to refer to your own "evidence" about the Zen redesign. That kind of development is likely draining AMD's resources, and is why they aren't releasing a new card for this holiday season. Nothing even mildly conspiracy driven there.


Assuming you don't agree with any of the above logic, you're going to have to tell me why any of this is terrible. AMD was immensely lucky that they had compute heavy cards when the coin crunching markets came about, so the R9xx series sold well. It wasn't worth a conspiracy theory that AMD started the crunching market? Nvidea and AMD compete in so much as one is always a step behind the other. The highest end cards trade blows, but in my experience the big mover cards are positioned such that AMD wins on price:performance, while Nvidea wins on pure performance. This is why I said AMD has been behind Nvidea for the last decade. I'm sure you can throw synthetic benches out, which shows the highest end AMD and Nvidea cards trade blows. At the same time, Nvidea sells an order of magnitude more 970s than 980s. AMD isn't a bad company because of their choices, Nvidea isn't a good one for its choices, and there is no reasonable basis for the claims that Nvidea is in the middle of some elaborate hoax to damage AMD.



For a moment, let's look at Nvidea. They don't like competition, but realistically they need it. AMD cards on the market prevent accusations of price fixing, monopolies, and actually allow you to sell your cards. Compare X to Y, and Y is better; you will therefore buy Y. If you were to look at Y one generation ago versus now, you'd see a 100% increase in cost, with a 7% increase in performance. Nobody in their right mind would buy that. In contrast, frame it as Y this generation beats X this generation by 5%, at only 104% the cost and it appears to be a steal. The thrifty consumer buys X, because the price decrease means more to them. While AMD will take a bath on sales, they will move units because of a price drop. Both AMD and Nvidea are benefiting from Nvidea releasing a new card, yet you aren't calling that a conspiracy.

Boiling this whole thing down; GIGO. You take garbage facts, extrapolate insane theories, and produce garbage conspiracy theories. Both of these companies are using their competition to move cards, by demonstrating their features in different ways. You look at facts, and Nvidea wins. You look at relative value comparisons, and AMD wins. Both companies selectively demonstrate truths, to get their units out the door. If this practice is unacceptable I suggest you find a communist utopia somewhere to live. Capitalism, for better and worse, is as much about your lies as it is your truths. If this system is unacceptable to the point of you conjecturing boogie-men you'll wind up in a nut house once you see the crap people do to control raw resources. If you want a real conspiracy, look-up aluminum billet sales.
A post with sense and logic? :eek: GTFO of this thread :p

;) :laugh:
 
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Everyone had an opinion about DX12 on Windows 7, but it wasn't confirmed until recently. There is a difference.

Except it's not officially confirmed. Microsoft has not come out and explicitly stated that DX12 will not come to Windows 7. Of course there is information around the internet currently pointing in that direction, but bantering over it until Microsoft says something one way or the other is just folly.


Honestly, this whole thread is stupid. nVidia released Maxwell on 28nm because they were able to make it work, and also saw gains of performance, while cutting power like crazy. Don't forget the GTX680 did this as well. Both are small versions of a fully specced out part because AMD doesn't have something to compete with it yet. Rest assured when AMD DOES release something competitive nVidia will have more powerful GPUs close to release. This is how the game has ALWAYS played out. How long AMD is able to keep it up is anyone's guess. They've already given up the fight against Intel in the high end enthusiast CPU market...
 
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Honestly, this whole thread is stupid.

^ This.

Mods, can we end the stupidity found here and just lock this, please?
 
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Benchmark Scores Faster than yours... I'd bet on it. :)
Good lord, you're pushing some really heavy stupid buttons there anubis44.

1) DO NOT DOUBLE POST. Tired of saying this, because reading the base rules should have been done prior to post one. After having been told multiple times, you continue to do this crap. Either learn and follow the rules, or find somewhere else to talk.
2) When you say it is my opinion, you divorce yourself from requiring facts. Looking at the title of this thread, which is "exposing nVidia's latest ploy" in case you've forgotten, you start by spitting in the face of facts. You link together random bits of data, cobble together conspiracy based conclusions, and don't listen to anyone presenting other points of view. This is not supporting your point, it is yelling louder than the opposition in order to make your point seem more important.
3) Why did you assume Dx12 would be on Windows 7. MS already released 11.2, and it was an 8.1 exclusive. In exactly what world do you believe MS would suddenly go back on this idea, and make Dx12 run on Windows 7? Stating that it wasn't confirmed is like saying you don't know dog poop tastes bad until you eat some. While technically true, it's a stupid point. If that somehow is unclear, I'd like for you to confirm that conjecture about some dog poo in my front lawn.

4) Why did Nvidea release a new GPU right around the holiday season? I can't believe I have to answer such a stupid question. Nvidea released new cards so they had product to sell for the holidays. If they released a reasonably priced card, which does show some improvement, they've got something that will print money. The development for this particular product has almost all been underwritten by the 7xx series cards, so little overhead and a new product will line Nvidea's coffers nicely.
5) Why isn't AMD releasing a new GPU now? That one is also simple. AMD has the console market locked down. They've developed for the current production node, and are staunchly waiting for TSMC to be able to roll out production on the smaller node. Rather than getting into a pricing war with Nvidea, AMD has decided to focus their resources toward other things. It's at this point I'd like to refer to your own "evidence" about the Zen redesign. That kind of development is likely draining AMD's resources, and is why they aren't releasing a new card for this holiday season. Nothing even mildly conspiracy driven there.


Assuming you don't agree with any of the above logic, you're going to have to tell me why any of this is terrible. AMD was immensely lucky that they had compute heavy cards when the coin crunching markets came about, so the R9xx series sold well. It wasn't worth a conspiracy theory that AMD started the crunching market? Nvidea and AMD compete in so much as one is always a step behind the other. The highest end cards trade blows, but in my experience the big mover cards are positioned such that AMD wins on price : performance, while Nvidea wins on pure performance. This is why I said AMD has been behind Nvidea for the last decade. I'm sure you can throw synthetic benches out, which shows the highest end AMD and Nvidea cards trade blows. At the same time, Nvidea sells an order of magnitude more 970s than 980s. AMD isn't a bad company because of their choices, Nvidea isn't a good one for its choices, and there is no reasonable basis for the claims that Nvidea is in the middle of some elaborate hoax to damage AMD.



For a moment, let's look at Nvidea. They don't like competition, but realistically they need it. AMD cards on the market prevent accusations of price fixing, monopolies, and actually allow you to sell your cards. Compare X to Y, and Y is better; you will therefore buy Y. If you were to look at Y one generation ago versus now, you'd see a 100% increase in cost, with a 7% increase in performance. Nobody in their right mind would buy that. In contrast, frame it as Y this generation beats X this generation by 5%, at only 104% the cost and it appears to be a steal. The thrifty consumer buys X, because the price decrease means more to them. While AMD will take a bath on sales, they will move units because of a price drop. Both AMD and Nvidea are benefiting from Nvidea releasing a new card, yet you aren't calling that a conspiracy.

Boiling this whole thing down; GIGO. You take garbage facts, extrapolate insane theories, and produce garbage conspiracy theories. Both of these companies are using their competition to move cards, by demonstrating their features in different ways. You look at facts, and Nvidea wins. You look at relative value comparisons, and AMD wins. Both companies selectively demonstrate truths, to get their units out the door. If this practice is unacceptable I suggest you find a communist utopia somewhere to live. Capitalism, for better and worse, is as much about your lies as it is your truths. If this system is unacceptable to the point of you conjecturing boogie-men you'll wind up in a nut house once you see the crap people do to control raw resources. If you want a real conspiracy, look-up aluminum billet sales.


Edit:
Darn emoticons. I'm use to a colon between two compared values, but forgot that is automatically made into that stupid emoticon. Hopefully this has rectified it.
QFT...
 

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The real reason that Nvidia wants to put AMD out of business is because two years ago Rory Read ran over Jen-Hsun Huang's dog and has never apologized for it. You can't prove it didn't happen so therefore it is a fact! o_O

Poor Doho. You can see him in this home movie. He's the little dog.



:p
 
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