• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

SAMSUNG Develops New, Highly Efficient Stacking Process for DRAM

malware

New Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
5,422 (0.76/day)
Location
Bulgaria
Processor Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 VID: 1.2125
Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3P rev.2.0
Cooling Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme + Noctua NF-S12 Fan
Memory 4x1 GB PQI DDR2 PC2-6400
Video Card(s) Colorful iGame Radeon HD 4890 1 GB GDDR5
Storage 2x 500 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 32 MB RAID0
Display(s) BenQ G2400W 24-inch WideScreen LCD
Case Cooler Master COSMOS RC-1000 (sold), Cooler Master HAF-932 (delivered)
Audio Device(s) Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic + Logitech Z-5500 Digital THX
Power Supply Chieftec CFT-1000G-DF 1kW
Software Laptop: Lenovo 3000 N200 C2DT2310/3GB/120GB/GF7300/15.4"/Razer
Samsung Electronics, has developed the first all-DRAM stacked memory package using 'through silicon via' (TSV) technology, which will soon result in memory packages that are faster, smaller and consume less power. The new wafer-level-processed stacked package (WSP) consists of four 512 megabit DDR2 DRAM chips that offer a combined 2 gigabits (Gb) of high density memory. Using the TSV-processed 2Gb DRAMs, Samsung can create a 4GB DIMM based on advanced WSP technology for the first time. Samsung's proprietary WSP technology not only reduces the overall package size, but also permits the chips to operate faster and use less power.




"The innovative TSV-based MCP (multi-chip package) stacking technology offers next-generation packaging solution that will accommodate the ever-growing demand for smaller-sized, high-speed, high-density memory," said Tae-Gyeong Chung, vice president, Interconnect Technology Development Team, Memory Division, Samsung Electronics. "In addition, the performance advancements achieved by our WSP technology can be utilized in many diverse combinations of semiconductor packaging, such as system-in-package solutions that combine logic with memory.

In today's MCPs, memory chips are connected by wire bonding, requiring vertical spacing between dies that is tens of microns deep. That wire bonding process also requires horizontal spacing on the package board hundreds of microns wide for the die-connecting wires. By contrast, Samsung's WSP technology forms laser-cut micron-sized holes that penetrate the silicon vertically to connect the memory circuits directly with a copper (Cu) filling, eliminating the need for gaps of extra space and wires protruding beyond the sides of the dies. These advantages permit Samsung's WSP to offer a significantly smaller footprint and thinner package.

Inside the new WSP, the TSV is housed within an aluminum (Al) pad to escape the performance-slow-down effect caused by the redistribution layer. Due to the complexity of DRAM stacking, this represented a much more difficult engineering feat than that accomplished with the first WSP, announced last year involving NAND flash dies.

There has been considerable concern that MCPs with high-speed memory chips with speed of 1.6Gb/ps next generation DRAM, would suffer from performance limitations when connected using current technologies. Samsung's WSP technology resolves these concerns.

In addition, as the back side of the wafer is ground away to make a thinner stack of multiple dies, the wafer has had a tendency to curve, creating physical distortion in the die. To overcome this additional critical concern in designing low-profile, high-density MCPs containing DRAM circuitry, Samsung's proprietary wafer-thinning technology, announced last year, has been applied to improve the thin-die-cutting process.

Advanced package solutions are increasingly important requirements for enabling high-speed, high-density memory solutions. Samsung's new stacked package design supports the rapid industry demand for high density, high performance semiconductor solutions that will support next-generation computing systems in 2010 and beyond.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.79/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
I wonder what this means for the finished product in terms of capacity, latencies, and power consumption. They mentioned 4GB modules, but at what voltage and latencies? I also wonder if this intended for DDR2 or DDR3?
 

kakazza

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
470 (0.07/day)
I wonder what this means for the finished product in terms of capacity, latencies, and power consumption. They mentioned 4GB modules, but at what voltage and latencies? I also wonder if this intended for DDR2 or DDR3?

Clicking source link is HARD!

Samsung said:
The new wafer-level-processed stacked package (WSP) consists of four 512 megabit (Mb) DDR2 (second generation, double data rate) DRAM (dynamic random access memory) chips that offer a combined 2 gigabits (Gb) of high density memory.

But I doubt they'll say "naw, this is for DDR2 only, DDR3 won't get it".
 

WeStSiDePLaYa

New Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
83 (0.01/day)
definetly wont be good at overclocking.


With that many IC's the chances of a single bad IC lowering the speed of the entire stick is high.

Also, this would make binning more difficult as well, as the bundled ICs cant be seperated for binning.


DDR1 IC piggybacking was a better method IMO.
 

WarEagleAU

Bird of Prey
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
10,812 (1.66/day)
Location
Gurley, AL
System Name Pandemic 2020
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 "Gen 2" 2600X
Motherboard AsRock X470 Killer Promontory
Cooling CoolerMaster 240 RGB Master Cooler (Newegg Eggxpert)
Memory 32 GB Geil EVO Portenza DDR4 3200 MHz
Video Card(s) ASUS Radeon RX 580 DirectX 12 DUAL-RX580-O8G 8GB 256-Bit GDDR5 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video C
Storage WD 250 M.2, Corsair P500 M.2, OCZ Trion 500, WD Black 1TB, Assorted others.
Display(s) ASUS MG24UQ Gaming Monitor - 23.6" 4K UHD (3840x2160) , IPS, Adaptive Sync, DisplayWidget
Case Fractal Define R6 C
Audio Device(s) Realtek 5.1 Onboard
Power Supply Corsair RMX 850 Platinum PSU (Newegg Eggxpert)
Mouse Razer Death Adder
Keyboard Corsair K95 Mechanical & Corsair K65 Wired, Wireless, Bluetooth)
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Actually, I believe this will make oc'ing alot better as well as lower power requirements, probably lower latencies and higher speeds. The fact there there is less gappage and direct connection with the copper and not the pcb leads, is more efficient. Im sure this will be for DDR2-3-4 and probably 5. Nice going Samsung.
 

WeStSiDePLaYa

New Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2006
Messages
83 (0.01/day)
Actually, I believe this will make oc'ing alot better as well as lower power requirements, probably lower latencies and higher speeds. The fact there there is less gappage and direct connection with the copper and not the pcb leads, is more efficient. Im sure this will be for DDR2-3-4 and probably 5. Nice going Samsung.



then you obviously arent understanding this technology.

This is IC stacking. Plan and simple. it has never led to increased speeds, or lowered latencies.

Also, you must not understand binning, as this will make binning more less effecient, as the yield of above spec chips will be less, due to 4 chips being stacked together.

Stacking is the short-cut way of getting higher density IC's. And there is a reason stacked dimms are unpopular, and uncommon.



Because now instead instead of 16 IC's on a normal double sided stick, you have 64 IC's on a double sided stick, in 16 packages.

So if even ONE of those 64 IC's doesnt clock well, it holds back the WHOLE stick.

And now with binning, instead of only needing to find a good IC in one package. they have to find one package with 4 good IC's.


Overclocking is really a odds game, and the lower the number the IC's on a single component the better the odds that there is no bunk ones.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.18/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
its upto OCZ and corsair to make it Overclock :p
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.79/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
Clicking source link is HARD!



But I doubt they'll say "naw, this is for DDR2 only, DDR3 won't get it".
So I missed the DDR2 comment, but I still didn't see anything in reference to latencies and power consumption estimates.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.18/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
well of course, this is about a new technique, not about a stick of ram itself.

Latency and power depend on the modules and voltages used, which comes in later.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.79/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
well of course, this is about a new technique, not about a stick of ram itself.

Latency and power depend on the modules and voltages used, which comes in later.
Right, if you read my first post, I was just wondering what this will mean for the final product. I was just hoping for some estimates.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.18/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
yeah, i know. but estimates.. hell, look at DDR - 2.5V for the spec, and people ran upto 3.3V (stock!) on some modules - whatever they say, some ram company is going to make it different.
 
Top