FBI: Computer expert briefly made plane fly sideways

[P4-630]

"SAN FRANCISCO — A computer security expert hacked into a plane's in-flight entertainment system and made it briefly fly sideways by telling one of the engines to go into climb mode."

"According to the document, in an interview on Feb. 13, 2015, Roberts told agents he had hacked into in-flight entertainment centers on Boeing 737s, 757s and Airbus A-320aircraft "15 to 20 times.""

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/05/16/chris-roberts-fbi-plane-hack-one-world-labs/27448335/

 

[GreiverBlade]

Chris Roberts??? as in Chris Roberts from Star Citizen???

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Roberts has not been charged with any crimes.

On a civil aircraft and it isnt reported by any of the other passengers?

briefly fly sideways ............yeah sure, not physically possible .

If this sensationalism exposes a potential risk then it serves it's purpose, if however it exposes a massive hole in aircraft security then it surely moves air passenger safety to a whole new level requiring different screening and retraining of airport security staff.

If this stuff is true, i would have genuine concerns. I worked at Heathrow for a number of years.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Actually, planes landing in high crosswinds fly sideways quite often when landing, so it's entirely possible...

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

there is always forward motion as well, maybe I am being pedantic.


At least once, according to the document, he told one engine on a plane to climb, causing the plane to move sideways as it flew. I think it probably banked over, there is no way he made it fly sideways.

You cant "tell" an engine to climb, you could possibly accelerate/ decelerate.

 

[Nosada]

None of this makes any sense. While I don't know the exact ins and outs of modern aircraft, I'd be VERY surprised if the inflight entertainment system had ANY connection to the flight control systems in ANY way. A plane suddenly "flying sideways" (I'm guessing they mean crab) at cruising altitude and speeds would be very unpleasant to experience and would surely be cause for significant alarm on the flight deck and reason enough to land at the nearest aerodrome and a call to the NTSB/FAA/JAA/Boeing/Airbus for a complete aircraft incident investigation. And "engine climb mode"? I guess he meant to say auto-throttle or something along those lines? Any of this happening once would have started major alerts all over the world. 15-20 times? Poppycock.

Anyhow, some quick googling assured me I wasn't the last sane person on the planet. Seneca, Boeing and Airbus have all confirmed that none of the systems available to passengers, be it wifi or the cables running under and through the seating environment, are in any way connected to the flight controls. Flight control cabling is completely unreachable from the passenger area of an airliner. Even the satellite links for crew and passengers are separate. Even more so, EVERYTHING in an airliner works in threes. If one of the three disagrees with the other two, the first value is disregarded. This means that he would have had to manipulate 3 separate values running through 3 completely separate sets of cabling in 3 completely different parts of the airplane at the exact same time, without ever triggering the safeties on those systems.

Complete and utter FUD, spread by an idiot who got himself on the terrorist watch-list of about 100 countries for bragging about something he obviously has little knowledge of.

Fairly certain this is a case of:

PS: Apparently some government agency pulled this alarm once already, and was ridiculed for it's lack of understanding and competence.

 

[MrGenius]

I believe the correct term is yaw(rotation). Telling an engine to climb = throttle up + one engine per wing = movement along the yaw axis(rotation) = the plane moving sideways as it flew.

And no, I don't believe it either. That you can hack into flight controls.

 

[rtwjunkie]

just wanted to clarify my position, in case i made it appear I agreed the man could hack the controls. It's not possibke thru the entertainment system. I merely am commenting on aircraft ability to fly briefly sideways.

 

[P4-630]

Actually, planes landing in high crosswinds fly sideways quite often when landing, so it's entirely possible...

I believe it's called "Crabbing Technique"

 

[rtwjunkie]

I believe it's called "Crabbing Technique"

And having been in some of those, I can assure you, it is scary as hell!!!

 

[silkstone]

The quote is taken out of context. He hacked a simulator and made the simulated plane fly sideways.

"Eventually, Roberts and his research partner determined that it would take a convoluted set of hacks to seriously subvert an avionics system, but they believed it could be done. He insisted to WIRED last month, however, that they did not “mess around with that except on simulation systems.” In simulations, for example, Roberts said they were able to turn the engine controls from cruise to climb, “which definitely had the desired effect on the system—the plane sped up and the nose of the airplane went up.”"

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...rts-nynd-102002-1-0.html#document/p13/a217963

He was actually taken out of context by the FBI, he says that the climb command that resulted in yaw was done on a VM (to Wired magazine).

 

[Nosada]

I merely am commenting on aircraft ability to fly briefly sideways.

Perfectly possible, I have done so on many occasions. I wouldn't try this at Mach .8 though, a sudden yaw at those speeds would be scary as hell and I'd be very afraid for the structural integrity of the tail-plane.

He hacked a simulator and made the simulated plane fly sideways.

It does seem like he was bragging about stuff he was doing in Vbox (guessing: VirtualBox?), which would point towards him bragging about things he couldn't actually do. That document does show the FBI found tampering on the IFE node under his seat, which is ... disturbing, to say the least. Doesn't mean he was actually able to do any of the things he bragged about, but it sure showed a willingness to try and a blatant disregard for the safety of the people sitting in the plane he's trying to screw around with.

It also shows the hardware taken from him after this event. An Ipad and a MacBook? A hacker ... on a MacBook? Is anyone taking this script-kiddie for real anymore?

This guy might be the poster-boy for why post-natal abortion should be allowed.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

@rtwjunkie i think we may have to agree to disagree about the sideways thing, i watched those vids and not one of those aircraft flew sideways. I have witnessed many a scary landing, i have never seen a commercial aircraft fly sideways.

As an aside, crosswinds arent nearly as dangerous to modern aircraft as they used to be, in its'original configuration the runways at heathrow were laid out in a Star of David configuration so there would always be a runway available. Runways typically run in the direction of prevailing winds so at Heathrow it is West/ East.

if you look at the rt in airport you will see one of the original runways that was used for crosswind landings in propellor driven aircraft.

the crosswind runways have been largely built over and arent even used for taxiing.

Just North of Heathrow is RAF Northolt, you will notice its' runway is available in case of severe crosswinds and when there is no alternative

with modern Instrument Landing Systems, strong winds and thick fog typically just add to delays as opposed to cancellations.


the attachment shows Gatwick, south of Heathrow

 

[rtwjunkie]

Well @CAPSLOCKSTUCK disagree all you want, I've been in landings where the plane is cocked almost 45 degrees like in the videos. Believe me, you can see it, and it scary as hell. I spent about ten years working in which I flew all over at least once every two weeks, so at that rate, the odds of encountering such phenomenon increase exponentially.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I still think that MH370 may have been taken down by a hacker.

 

[Frick]

From a comment on the Ars Tehcnica article:

Hi guys. Actual airline pilot here. This guy is full of shit, but for fun I will entertain you:

There is no such thing as a 'climb' command to the engines. Assuming the aircraft was in initial climb, cruise, or descent when he did this, 99.9% chance is that the autopilot was engaged. If you increase thrust on either engine, the autopilot will immediately counteract any added lift or yaw to maintain its stability. In order to climb, or bank, a number of things have to be done. For a climb, first, the pilots must select a desired altitude. Next, they must select the mode in which they want to reach that desired altitude (vertical speed mode, speed mode, pitch mode), adjust that to the desired value, and then lastly, select the desired thrust setting, assuming the plane has no auto-thrust/auto-throttle feature (the Boeing 737 does.) For banking its even trickier. If the aircraft was slaved to its FMS to fly on its flight plan, you would have to change its lateral navigation mode to something else, like heading mode, select a direction of flight, and then the plane would bank at an optimal angle. The only way he could have induced an undesired state is if he caused it while a pilot chose to fly in 'raw data', which means the flight director and autopilot are both disengaged. And even then, any pilot worth his salt would have immediately detected the change and made adjustments... flying raw data you are in direct control of the aircraft so you feel what the airplane is doing like its an extension of your body.

Also, engines are governed by computers that maintain a constant RPM between them, so as not to create uneven thrust and a very annoying oscillating sound ('woooommp... woooommpp'). Had he managed to induce asymmetric thrust the pilots would have noticed... IMMEDIATELY.

There is a lot more that smells like total bullshit. I browsed through the document and it claims that he managed to use the same hack on a Boeing 737, 757, and even an Airbus. Boeing and Airbus airplanes may as well have systems designed by different extraterrestrial races.

Anyways, I'm just touching the surface. I am just a pilot not an aerospace engineer, but trust me, this is hilariously silly. On our aircraft, the passenger network has no contact with anything related to aircraft systems. It could be different on a 737, but I doubt it. On ours, any communication between the airplane and an external computer would have to be one through a physical data link with a serial cable, and the port is inside the cockpit.

I think this guy just wanted to sound like a total badass hacker to his peers on Twitter, and is now paying the price.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Agreed crosswind "slip" landings are scary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_(aerodynamics)

 

[Steevo]

Company plane does it all the time, larger aircraft do it all the time too, and its a popular bush pilot technique to stop faster on short runways, essentially balancing stall speed against the much larger drag you can achieve a faster stop, if not an almost fall from the air.

Learning a crosswind slip is part of getting a license as well.