What do you think about AIO's for cooling Video cards?

[peche]

gpu Sockets could now be a thing with the introduction of stacked memory directly on the GPU package

whatr a wish !!
i really doutb they will do such a thing... maybe on 10 years of development

You don't have to watercool them, the OP is asking because they're choosing to.

please explain...

 

[claes]

I wouldn't bother if you get a decent 970.

My last GPU setup was a pair of reference 470s, and they were LOUD. I bought two AIOs to cool them and the difference was night and day - no jet engine, no hitting the thermal limit, increased my OC pretty significantly, et cetera.

However, the AIOs were the loudest components in my system by far. This wasn't a big deal while gaming as my fans drowned them out and I'm usually wearing headphones, but when browsing the web or doing work it was super annoying.

I recently upgraded to a MSI 970 Golden and couldn't be happier. I had considered slapping one of my AIOs on to it, but the card never breaks 70*, the fans don't spin until 60*, other users with AIOs on their 970s are only clocking 10-20mhz more than I am - plus it's a lot cleaner and I have two less fans than I had before.

So, sure - it's great if you're going for a max OC and can't afford a custom loop, or if you have a noisy card (I'm looking at you, AMD), but there's really no reason with the efficiency of modern nvidia cards.

 

[peche]

well for the moment I'm pretty happy with my GTx 760 from gigabyte, it never breaks 70c margin, fan curve set and also a couple of overclock try outs, but I was thinking if on my new card I could install some waterdevice on a possible new GTx 970,

the reference amd card on my work computer is not mine so I cannot do a thing for apart the normal year repaste,

 

[Lopez0101]

I'm saying you're choosing to liquid cool your GPU because you want to, not because you have to or are forced to by the nature of the GPU.

 

[newtekie1]

You don't have to watercool them, the OP is asking because they're choosing to.

I'm saying you're choosing to liquid cool your GPU because you want to, not because you have to or are forced to by the nature of the GPU.

We have moved to the point that some need to be watercooled. The 295x2 requires liquid cooling, and it is rumored the 390X, or whatever AMD is calling their next too card, will require liquid cooling too. It is no longer a choice with some cards.

 

[Lopez0101]

We have moved to the point that some need to be watercooled. The 295x2 requires liquid cooling, and it is rumored the 390X, or whatever AMD is calling their next too card, will require liquid cooling.

No, it doesn't. Powercolor made an aircooled 295X. Fiji is being watercooled because the PCB is small and it makes the most sense; however, I'm sure a 3rd party will make an aircooled version.

 

[claes]

No, it doesn't. Powercolor made an aircooled 295X. Fiji is being watercooled because the PCB is small and it makes the most sense; however, I'm sure a 3rd party will make an aircooled version.

Even further, Powercolor just showcased the Devil 13 at Computex, which is a true 2x290x card cooled by air that is more powerful/runs hotter than a 295x2.

Post Computex rumors suggest that only one of the "FURY" cards will be water-cooled, and at a premium, while offering the same feature set as an air-cooled FURY (minus a factory overclock).

I wouldn't say "specifications/TDP demand that water-cooling is required" as much as "AMD chose to bundle water cooling so that reviewers wouldn't complain about heat and noise when compared to Keplar/Maxwell."

AMD's been losing the power consumption game for a few generations now and, coupled with the lack of significant performance gains over nvidia, nvidia's ever decreasing TDPs and clear roadmap, and the excellent reference cooler bundled with the Titan/700 series cards (nevermind rumors of no real competition to the current Titan X and limited DX12 features in the 300/Fury series) make additions like water-cooling "required," especially at the enthusiast level (AMD's greatest competitive edge is in the mid-consumer range).

 

[Lopez0101]

The Devil 13 came out last year...

 

[Delta6326]

If your getting a GTX 970, a AIO is not "needed", but I think it is cool looking if your into MOD/Design for builds, I plan on doing 2x NZXT Kraken X61
and a NZXT G10 with some VRM Copper Heatsinks. and a Skylake RGB Motherboard.

 

[newtekie1]

No, it doesn't. Powercolor made an aircooled 295X. Fiji is being watercooled because the PCB is small and it makes the most sense; however, I'm sure a 3rd party will make an aircooled version.

Even further, Powercolor just showcased the Devil 13 at Computex, which is a true 2x290x card cooled by air that is more powerful/runs hotter than a 295x2.

Post Computex rumors suggest that only one of the "FURY" cards will be water-cooled, and at a premium, while offering the same feature set as an air-cooled FURY (minus a factory overclock).

I wouldn't say "specifications/TDP demand that water-cooling is required" as much as "AMD chose to bundle water cooling so that reviewers wouldn't complain about heat and noise when compared to Keplar/Maxwell."

AMD's been losing the power consumption game for a few generations now and, coupled with the lack of significant performance gains over nvidia, nvidia's ever decreasing TDPs and clear roadmap, and the excellent reference cooler bundled with the Titan/700 series cards (nevermind rumors of no real competition to the current Titan X and limited DX12 features in the 300/Fury series) make additions like water-cooling "required," especially at the enthusiast level (AMD's greatest competitive edge is in the mid-consumer range).

The Powercolor Devel 13 was 3 slots, which is just as bad as the water cooling.

And now we're calling the card not throttling "a factory overclock"?

 

[Lopez0101]

And high performance cars don't usually have good gas mileage. Is it good to have efficiency? Sure. But, I don't see it as being a requirement on a high-end computer component that costs hundreds of dollars or more.

 

[newtekie1]

And high performance cars don't usually have good gas mileage. Is it good to have efficiency? Sure. But, I don't see it as being a requirement on a high-end computer component that costs hundreds of dollars or more.

We aren't talking about cars. It is possible to have way better efficiency with GPUs than we are seeing with some cards. Just slapping a liquid cooler on the inefficient ones and saying "meh, it's good enough, no need to work for better efficiency" isn't good enough to me.

 

[claes]

The Devil 13 came out last year...

My bad

We have moved to the point that some need to be watercooled. The 295x2 requires liquid cooling, and it is rumored the 390X, or whatever AMD is calling their next too card, will require liquid cooling too. It is no longer a choice with some cards.

We aren't talking about cars. It is possible to have way better efficiency with GPUs than we are seeing with some cards. Just slapping a liquid cooler on the inefficient ones and saying "meh, it's good enough, no need to work for better efficiency" isn't good enough to me.

So, inefficiency is a requirement?

I'm not sure what the point is here... if the car meant to go 210mph overheats and a throttling mechanism is introduced at 160mph than what makes it worth the expense when another car is meant to go 200mph and doesn't throttle? Not trying to provoke any fans, but efficiency has to account for something...

The 290x provides a pretty compelling argument that AMD is lacking in the cooling department. The reference 290x throttles with little effort, while half of the aftermarket 290x solutions manage to stay below the 80's while running much more quietly. Meanwhile, nvidia puts out a Titan/780ti that has similar thermal demands but with a better reference heatsink - it doesn't throttle and it's a lot quieter than other blowers.
Then, in their next generation, due to decreasing TDPs, they don't even use the new cooler outside of the 980 and upwards because they simply don't need to to keep the heat and noise in check.

So, yeah, of course AMD throws on a water-block to prevent their cards from throttling. I'd prefer they invest in a better reference cooler or work on lowering heat instead of focusing on the marginal gains we've been seeing the last few years from both sides, but, to each his own/it's been hard enough to keep up with nvidia performance wise?

 

[GhostRyder]

We aren't talking about cars. It is possible to have way better efficiency with GPUs than we are seeing with some cards. Just slapping a liquid cooler on the inefficient ones and saying "meh, it's good enough, no need to work for better efficiency" isn't good enough to me.

The Powercolor Devel 13 was 3 slots, which is just as bad as the water cooling.

And now we're calling the card not throttling "a factory overclock"?

No, it doesn't. Powercolor made an aircooled 295X. Fiji is being watercooled because the PCB is small and it makes the most sense; however, I'm sure a 3rd party will make an aircooled version.

The Titan Z made by Nvidia was a 3 slot card (2.5 slot but w/e) so its not like AMD was the only person having trouble. Difference being that AMD generally stays closer to the clock rates (Least in recent times) of their single GPU cards than NVidia does on their dual GPU cards. I do not see AIO's being needed as air cooled can easily handle these cards well beyond the TDPs if needed, just that they are the next thing if you want the cards to be very quiet while having the ability to overclock whih is what most people have been requesting a lot recently. AMD decided to just go ahead and offer an option on their high end single GPU card...

I believe the cooler evolution is just the next step on the high end.

 

[newtekie1]

The Titan Z made by Nvidia was a 3 slot card (2.5 slot but w/e) so its not like AMD was the only person having trouble.

The Titan-Z was a stupid card, and I didn't like it because of the cooler(and because it was overpriced and quickly replaced by the next generation).

 

[peche]

I'm saying you're choosing to liquid cool your GPU because you want to, not because you have to or are forced to by the nature of the GPU.

correct, because of an option ... not a need...!

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Biggest problem on GPUs is the VRM. The power consumption is of the order of 2-3x as much as a CPU, so the VRM dissipates around 2-3x more than on a CPU. Usually GPU VRMs are also more crammed than on the motherboard ones, so cooling them becomes more problematic.

That said, the bare die nature of the GPUs means they respond much better to water cooling than CPUs. So if the VRM is properly cooled, you can have much quieter operation at higher speeds than on pretty much any reasonably sized on card cooler due to the larger space available on AIO radiators. (just look at the 295x2 vs Titan Z)

 

[claes]

That might be true for dual-GPU cards (where there are no AIOs available to consumers able to cool two components), but with newer generations of single-GPU cards it's less applicable. An AIO will offer more headroom for an overclock than a decent aftermarket cooled card, but it will almost certainly do it at the expense of noise as most aftermarket cooling solutions are quieter than an AIO solution, particularly in idle where pump noise overwhelms quiet fans.

 

[Megatron]

Pump noise is a non-issue, and fan noise depends on the fan. I have my PC contained behind a thin wall, and the stock cooler was noticeable when it ramped up to play a youtube video. Now I have a 240Mhz overclock with slight vcore bump and its undetectable. Only the VRM fan speeds up.

 

[claes]

Yeesh, I thought OCN was bad...

Pump noise is a non-issue, and fan noise depends on the fan. I have my PC contained behind a thin wall, and the stock cooler was noticeable when it ramped up to play a youtube video. Now I have a 240Mhz overclock with slight vcore bump and its undetectable. Only the VRM fan speeds up.

What does this even mean?

The argument of pump vs fan noise is sooooooo tired - TPU, SilentPCReview, Martin's Liquid Lab, ThermalBench, hardwareluxx, hardware canucks, hardware.fr... every site that cares at all about noise has scientifically demonstrated that even modern AIO pumps are louder than a decent quiet fan, even when undervolted or speed is reduced through software*.

Hundreds of users, including the vast majority of users over at the original "The Mod" forum over at OCN have also confirmed. The only AIOs with pumps that are reasonably quiet are the Swiftech line, where non-Asetek/Coolit pumps are used (the pumps you see in the vast majority of AIOs). Even alphacool's solution in the Kelvin line is significantly louder than it's fans. Heck, people who build custom loops buy aftermarket tops and impellers to mod their pumps to reduce noise, as standard practice, because they are demonstrably noisier than the $150+ in fans they purchased, and then will still go through the trouble of decoupling the pump.

So, pump noise isn't a concern because your computer is behind a wall and pump noise is inaudible to you? That is great, and many users have the same experience, whether it's subjective or not**, but, objectively as science has demonstrated, AIO pumps are louder than quiet fans.

*They've also demonstrated that aftermarket Maxwell cards are often quieter on load than most AIO pumps (and even some aftermarket Hawaii cards).

**I replaced the impellers in my undervolted AIOs and added a bunch of dampening and foam under the shrouds of the GPUs and re-filled the loops to get rid of air bubbles and my AIO was "inaudible" from about 3' away, but they were still louder than my AP181s at 700rpm with the chassis panels removed from 10".

 

[Megatron]

A quiet case is a priority for me, I bought the P180 Antec. I obviously have some obtrusive fans but I can run 7 x 120mm + 1 92mm and not hear them but immediately hear the stock cooler ramping up to play youtube videos. I tested my pump before connecting it to my gpu and next to the case I was unable to detect noise from it just vibration. I definitely consider my PC is quieter now.

If you'd ever tried sound proofing an Eheim 1250 mains powered pump you would know how quiet these Asetek pumps are.

I believe I have a PSU fan that makes trying to make the PC any quieter than that moot, unless you are inclined to mod the PSU.

 

[claes]

A quiet case is a priority for me, I bought the P180 Antec.

Me too, thus my FT02

I obviously have some obtrusive fans but I can run 7 x 120mm + 1 92mm and not hear them but immediately hear the stock cooler ramping up to play youtube videos. I tested my pump before connecting it to my gpu and next to the case I was unable to detect noise from it just vibration.

8 fans?!

I definitely consider my PC is quieter now.

I would believe it, particularly with a GTX 570. My SLI 470 setup was also quieter on load with AIOs than it was with the reference coolers, but certainly not at idle, where the pump noise was louder than the 7 fans I had at that time, all running at ~500rpm (3x AP181s, 2x NF-P12, 2x NF-B9).

My point was that, with Fermi et al 2010, AIOs made a lot of sense to cool these incredibly ineffecient, high consumption cards. With Maxwell and even Hawaii to some extent there's simply no benefit in terms of noise as aftermarket coolers are demonstratably quieter.

If you'd ever tried sound proofing an Eheim 1250 mains powered pump you would know how quiet these Asetek pumps are.

I have! Have you messed around with D5's or MCP35x's? Could you honestly tell me Asetek makes quieter pumps? Well, you could, but you'd be wrong!

SPCR: Look to the discussion of pump noise, the frequency charts demonstrating pump noise, and the recordings of the pump noise from their 12db anechoic chamber...
Swiftech H240-X - 17db minimum (no fans, lowest PWM speed), 39db maximum - most review sites argue that this is the quietest AIO pump on the market (modified MCP355 IIRC).
NZXT G10+X41 vs DirectCuII on GTX 680: 17-39db vs. 17-28db!
Accelero Hybrid II vs DirectCuII on GTX 680: 14-28db vs 12-24db
DirectCuII GTX 680 w/ custom fan curve - 12-18db - maximum.
Finally, Zotac GTX 970 w/ custom fan curve - 12-14db maximum.

Notice that the air coolers are quieter than the pumps at idle and that the air coolers are at least 10db quieter on load. Also note the 4db drop between the 680 and 970.

And, to be certain, the Kraken X61; SPCR's favorite pump: 14db-19db for pump noise, or, louder than a DirectCuII 680 or a AMP! 970 in both idle and load.

With the promising results of the NZXT Kraken X41, we were optimistic about the larger X61's chances. Frankly, this is the sort of performance we've been awaiting since AIO liquid coolers debuted. After repeated disappointments, the X61 is the first to truly impress us, doing so in stunning fashion. Not only did it shoot past all the closed-loop water coolers we've tested so far, it climbed to the very top of our leaderboard. Even so, we need to note that if you want a truly silent cooling system, the X61 is not it. We were able to get the SPL down to 16~17 dBA, but no better. This is very quiet by any standard but not truly silent. In contrast, the top air-only coolers on our leaderboard can go all the way down to the 11 dBA ambient level of our anechoic chamber, albeit with higher temperature rise.

For posterity's sake:
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/03/12/swiftech-h220-vs-corsair-h100i-noise-testing/
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...rtinsliquidlab-org-Pump-Noise-Testing-Round-1
http://thermalbench.com/2015/01/05/swiftech-mcp50x-pump/4/ vs http://thermalbench.com/2015/02/10/corsair-hydro-series-h110i-gt-aio-cpu-cooler/6/ vs http://thermalbench.com/2015/01/10/nzxt-kraken-x41-aio-cooler/6/
Dual-towers vs AIOs: http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.ph...-besten-overclocking-cpu-kuehler.html?start=5

I believe I have a PSU fan that makes trying to make the PC any quieter than that moot, unless you are inclined to mod the PSU.

Again, subjective, anecdotal experiences are all good and well, but my PSU fan doesn't run - ever.

Does that mean your PSU doesn't exist or merely that you are in a different use case scenario than other users might be? [/quote][/QUOTE]