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Microsoft to make Windows 10 updates mandatory

Do you think mandatory Windows 10 updates are a good idea?


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qubit

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Microsoft makes updates mandatory in W10 for everyone except for enterprise users. This is good in that it keeps one's Windows fully updated at all times, but I think there are a few downsides to forcing users to have the latest updates.

- How will they handle updates and reboots to minimise disruption to workflow? For gamers, imagine some fat updates installing in the middle of an intense online game. It would completely wreck it with tanking framerates, lagging and potential errors, as well as bombing out of the game. Presumably Microsoft have thought of this and will avoid such scenarios.

- Bandwidth limits. Many people don't have high bandwidth internet access and on top of that they may not have an unlimited usage quota. Being forced to download the updates would cause problems, especially with using up allocated bandwidth and either being shut off, throttled or having to pay more for it.

- It gives Microsoft an easy way to force updates which are only in their own interests and not in those of the user's. The one I can think of is the product activation anti-tampering update 971033 which many people avoided since it was very intrusive, checking up on an installation every month. A later version stopped this behaviour after a public outcry. However, such outcries might be ineffective if one has to accept every update. This last point is the biggest reason in my book to be against such forced updates.

What do you all think? Check out the article and let me know.

www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/16/windows_10_will_update_whether_you_like_it_or_not_unless_you_have_enterprise_edition
 

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What no Credit >>>>re post #176
Smirk :p:laugh:
 

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How will they handle updates and reboots to minimise disruption to workflow?
Same as they do now: forced restart 24 hours after install if you didn't do it before then. Pretty sure the updates run low priority so everything else takes precedent.

Bandwidth limits.
Updates are usually only a few megabytes in size. They download in the background just like installs. The only way you could tell it was downloading was via 56K. I wouldn't be surprised if automatic updates are disabled when connecting via dialup modem.

It gives Microsoft an easy way to force updates which are only in their own interests and not in those of the user's.
Microsoft has the same do-no-harm policy as other technology companies. If they deliberately do something to piss users off, their popularity as a software manufacturer will plummet so they don't or fix it if enough complain, as noted.

Check out the article and let me know.
The Register
 

qubit

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What no Credit >>>>re post #176
Smirk :p:laugh:
Sorry man, I hadn't seen it. The Reg is on my go-to bookmarks for my most frequently visited sites so saw it that way. Post duly thanked! :toast:

@FordGT90Concept I agree with nearly everything you've written except for The Register being a poor news source, as it's actually quite respected. Now if it had been Fudzilla...

As far as forcing those self-interest updates, I wouldn't be so sure. While people have the ability to block a dodgy update, the power remains with the user. This transfers that power to a corporation who's sole interest is in making more and more money from its customers. I reckon they'll try it on, doing a cost-benefit analysis between achieving their aims with the dodgy patch and any potential backlash. This sort of analysis is something that companies, governments, politicians etc do all the time, so I don't see why it wouldn't apply here.
 
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Since when did they change that to include Pro? That's what most of us here will end up with. Home users are probably better off.
 
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I am only worried about stuff that is not actually updates but crapware features noone asked for. Like that Silverlight shit I haven't ever figured out what it does. Or drivers. Hell if everything from WU is treated like updates and forced, I will simply not install the system. Ever.
 
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I don't like the idea. Because I've always opted out of automatic updates. Preferring to do them manually. For all of the reasons previously mentioned(and any I can't think of at the moment).

But since it's been this way with the W10 Insider/Tech Preview from the beginning, I've actually gotten somewhat used to it. And I don't really have too many gripes about it. As it hasn't caused me any major difficulties yet. In fact the only issue I've had has been resolved, apparently, with the last few builds. Which was it repeatedly wanting to install the AMD WHQL 15.20 Catalyst drivers on a daily basis. Because I kept installing the 15.3 beta drivers immediately afterwards. The 15.3 beta drivers I've found to work best with my system. And now they don't require being constantly overwritten. So somebody's feedback about that must have worked.

In summation, I voted no. I don't think they're a good idea. I just hope they don't cause me too much trouble in the future. Because I'll still be taking Windows 10, in all its price free glory, whether I like it or not. And I actually like it very much at this stage. So for now, it seems to be a good thing.

On a relevant note, one can choose to in place upgrade from Pro to Enterprise if one wishes. Which sounds like it solves whatever issues might arise in that department.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_editions

I've already done so with my pro version of the preview. Just this morning. Because I found out I could(or rather how I could). This was prior to finding out about this mandatory update clause. But now I think I might be even more glad I did that. We'll see.
 

qubit

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Like that Silverlight shit I haven't ever figured out what it does.
It was a direct competitor to Adobe's Flash. Now both are being killed off in favour of HTML5, which is a very good thing.
 
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Is there anyone who actually ever used that?
Flash will be with us for quite a few more years I guess (way longer than it should).
 
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Is there anyone who actually ever used that?
Flash will be with us for quite a few more years I guess (way longer than it should).

Netflix did.
Also, Microsoft's own SCCM Application web portal uses it. If you have SCCM in your workplace, there is a chance you used it.
Also I have seen it few times on net.
 
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Brace yourself, tech support people. Lots of OEM-customized machines (AIOs, laptops, tablets)... Now plagued by endless BSODs, boot-looping, denial of service in all forms and flavors, - all because of incompatible, retail-oriented drivers, now being forcibly installed on PCs during maintenance window. The OS won't even prompt the user about the fact that said drivers ARE being installed at a given moment (what stops you from turning off your device then?), this is just plain scary.

I've seen what a single general-purpose Intel HD graphics driver can do on an Enduro-enabled computer, it's a havoc, I'm telling you. Brightness control is gone, accessing S3 state makes machine stop responding to any input. And it's on Windows Update, it's WHQL-ed, so in no way can you opt-out from that thing. Just roll back the driver and pray that you won't be "offered" a new version when it gets updated again.

Words cannot express my disapproval.

Is there anyone who actually ever used that?
Silverlight is a huge platform (and used to be very active back in the day), handles a lot more than just playing videos on the web. Very flexible, runs in lots of environments as well, yet the programming model is universal and doesn't require you to target specific features. For some reason people think that it's an alternative to Flash of some kind, but in reality it's more of an enterprise-grade toolkit for building internet applications and other cool things. Deprecated now, as JavaScript has taken over everything (sigh)...
 
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I prefer to review the updates before installing anything. Just because Microsoft says I should have it doesn't necessarily mean that I want it. And every once-in-a-long-while, Microsoft will publish an update that hoses some PCs. I want to have final say before installing updates (it is my computer, after all...).
 

FordGT90Concept

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I am only worried about stuff that is not actually updates but crapware features noone asked for. Like that Silverlight shit I haven't ever figured out what it does. Or drivers. Hell if everything from WU is treated like updates and forced, I will simply not install the system. Ever.
Automatic updates only apply to critical/security updates. Optional stuff like drivers and Silverlight will remain optional (won't install unless user tells it to).

Silverlight is like Flash but .NET Framework and WPF based (Model-View-ViewModel). Silverlight is a lot better than Flash but Microsoft is killing it off in favor of HTML5. Edge browser won't support Silverlight. Silverlight never got much traction because Flash was dominant and it appeared not long before HTML5 was starting to get support.
 
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Optional stuff like drivers
If only. Most drivers (like the ones for GPUs) were always considered to be "Important Updates" (with rare exceptions) and will be pushed onto any Windows machine, whether it's running Windows 8.1 or Windows 10. Starting with Windows 10 though, you can never, ever block them in any way before they get to install, and only after that point you have an option to roll them back. That's how bad we have it, and that is why people should be concerned.

Again, if this was just about normal (actual) Windows Updates being automatically installed, this would've been a problem only with but a few paranoids.
 
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Well, at the moment at least, you can choose to defer upgrades. Under Settings > Windows Updates > Advanced options you need to check the box labeled "Defer upgrades". What does that do? Good question. The answer I've found might illuminate it to a degree.

Defer upgrades in Windows 10
Applies to Windows 10
  • Some Windows 10 editions let you defer upgrades to your PC. When you defer upgrades, new Windows features won’t be downloaded or installed for several months. Deferring upgrades doesn’t affect security updates. Note that deferring upgrades will prevent you from getting the latest Windows features as soon as they’re available.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/defer-upgrades-in-windows-10

I hear this only applies to Pro and Enterprise editions. But I can't verify that.
 

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It really depends on what a "feature update" is IMO, and if it really does include drivers and monitor profiles (I downloaded a monitor profile once and it messed up the colours something fiercly). I understand why they're doing it, but I'm not sure I support it. If that is the way it will be for sure.
 

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- How will they handle updates and reboots to minimise disruption to workflow? For gamers, imagine some fat updates installing in the middle of an intense online game. It would completely wreck it with tanking framerates, lagging and potential errors, as well as bombing out of the game. Presumably Microsoft have thought of this and will avoid such scenarios.

- Bandwidth limits. Many people don't have high bandwidth internet access and on top of that they may not have an unlimited usage quota. Being forced to download the updates would cause problems, especially with using up allocated bandwidth and either being shut off, throttled or having to pay more for it.

like this

 

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What does that do? Good question.
They probably upgrade the built-in set of UWP APIs and/or add new ones when they become available (like, when you're being offered an update from build 10166 to 10240, that's basically how it goes, you get a newer version of some input-related type that's present on your machine in version 10166). That would be the only thing that makes sense, honestly. By deferring those, you get a time window for planning the migration, maybe updating your LOB applications/etc in respect with said type changes, and only then moving to another build, I guess?..
 
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I don't want shit like Windows 10 notificaton crap being forced on me. That crap is nagging for several months now. Great, you already told me Win10 is coming out soon, 3 times this month. Stop bugging me.
 

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I just thought of something: what if you're on a cellular network, or using your phone as a mobile hotspot? For many people that is their only connection and in parts of the world the data is very limited.
 

qubit

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I just thought of something: what if you're on a cellular network, or using your phone as a mobile hotspot? For many people that is their only connection and in parts of the world the data is very limited.
That's a good point and ties up with my bandwidth limits point in my OP.
 

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The picture Solaris17 posted says Windows will not download updates on a "metered connection." That certainly includes 3G/4G.
 
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You can still set this to disable updates via gpedit.msc, at least in RTM.

That said, this is still an awful idea. Not just in concept, but especially with how it's being handled.
 
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Since when did they change that to include Pro? That's what most of us here will end up with. Home users are probably better off.
Pro has always been included, only enterprise is excluded.
 
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You can still set this to disable updates via gpedit.msc, at least in RTM.

That said, this is still an awful idea. Not just in concept, but especially with how it's being handled.

I prefer "Notify but let me download and install". I always update as soon as possible, but on my own terms. Happened so many times before that I let Windows Update on "Automatic" and it rebooted my system in the middle of 30GB game download. came home from work, expecting game to be downloaded and the system was in fuckin sleep, because it force rebooted and went to sleep afterwards. Moronic to the max.
 
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