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Graphics market share not looking good for AMD - down to just 18%?

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Once the DX12 benchmarks start coming out, nVidia is the one who's going to be in trouble. They're not going to be able to charge a premium anymore over AMD's cards, at least with the current Maxwell lineup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=706&v=AFBtGYVnzNY
and here:
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/2...-singularity-amd-and-nvidia-go-head-to-head/3
AMD's entire Radeon lineup going back to the first generation of GCN 1.0 (7000-series) are going to get a pretty dramatic shot in the arm in performance with DX12, and so will AMD in general once this starts going viral.

Um you do know that this is only 1 game that is in Alpha stages? Writing as DX12 is complete and udder AMD win over 1 game is pretty stupid thing to do. Even with Source being out for a year as the dev claimed. The game did source Mantle in to the game so more then likely AMD had the leg up when it came to the DX12 cause of that. So nvidia cards are little slower in early Alpha build, Still a long way to go before that game is released retail and performance between now and they likely will change. AMD fans shouldn't hype this up to much and hope AMD keeps working on things and not rest on 1 small win in a war they been losing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=662&v=Wuv2muF9dZ0

Josh talked about fact game was a mantle game so very possible that is net results you are seeing transferring over.
 
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Also, you can't just forget about existing games. It's not like ythey'll all get magically rewritten for DX12. They'll remain DX11. People still play them. And they play them a lot. Just ignoring them simply because they are not new is not the way to go.
Of course, existing games matter although patches bringing new api support aren't unheard of (remember crysis 2 with DX11 patch together with huge texture sizes).
What worries me is how developers plan to balance their games during the time they'd need to support both APIs. Will dx12 users get more details up close, more draw distance or simply more frames ... I'd like to see elaborate settings and simply more frames with dx12 : you know, settings that can't be maxed in dx11 for playable frame rates, but they can in dx12 ... this time around dx11 users might even see (at 10 fps) what kind of eye candy they are missing.
 

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I really wonder how it'll stack up against ASUS GTX 970 DirectCU Mini. That card is pretty much the same dimensions as R9 Nano...
 
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Viral? You mean once steam surveys start showing equal percentages of DX12 and DX11 systems, so that developers have incentive to support both DX12 and DX11 in their games ... add to that extra couple of years of development cycle for new games.
So, few years of DX11 games with one or two DX12 showcase games, followed by couple of years of supporting both DX11 and DX12 renderer in games ... just like GTA5 nowdays can be run in DX10 mode (yeah Vista).
The point is AMD should still work on their DX11 drivers, rather than relying on fast adoption of Win10. Don't get me wrong, adoption will be relatively fast compared to DX11, but not fast enough for AMD to allow themselves to forget about DX11.

The development cycle has already moved very rapidly to support DX12, as Windows 10 is a free upgrade. According to this source:

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...lmost-a-quarter-of-all-pcs-within-a-year.html

Windows 10 will be on almost a 1/4 of ALL PCs in the world within one year, and that's not taking into consideration new PCs. Let this sink in for a minute. 1/4 of all PCs worldwide are expected to have Windows 10 and DX12 on them within one year. I'm sure I don't need to point out that the number of PC gamers is much smaller than 1/4 of all PC owners worldwide. That means every gamer worth his salt will be running Windows 10 within the next few months, if they haven't already done so.

This is crucial. The adoption rate of a new Windows OS has traditionally taken a couple of years or more for most gamers because they had to pay for it. With Windows 10, this barrier is removed. I'm already running Windows 10 on all three of the PCs in my home (including my HTPC). The adoption rate speed for Win 10 will dramatically beat every previous Windows adoption rate timeframe going back to Windows 95, so we can't use history as an example of how quickly this is happening--Microsoft has never issued a new Windows generation for FREE before.

As for existing DX11 games, AMD cards already run most of them very well anyhow. Who cares about 10 FPS when you're saving a good chunk of money, and the AMD card is even with or beats the nVidia card that's $50-$100 more expensive in new DX12 games. Only an nVidiot would pay the Green Goblin tax for that.
 

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So, one company, Net Applications says so (that 1/4 of OS will be W10 in one year), based on limited website traffic, so it must be so. :rolleyes: You're extremely gullible.
 
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The development cycle has already moved very rapidly to support DX12, as Windows 10 is a free upgrade. According to this source:

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...lmost-a-quarter-of-all-pcs-within-a-year.html

Windows 10 will be on almost a 1/4 of ALL PCs in the world within one year, and that's not taking into consideration new PCs. Let this sink in for a minute. 1/4 of all PCs worldwide are expected to have Windows 10 and DX12 on them within one year. I'm sure I don't need to point out that the number of PC gamers is much smaller than 1/4 of all PC owners worldwide. That means every gamer worth his salt will be running Windows 10 within the next few months, if they haven't already done so.

This is crucial. The adoption rate of a new Windows OS has traditionally taken a couple of years or more for most gamers because they had to pay for it. With Windows 10, this barrier is removed. I'm already running Windows 10 on all three of the PCs in my home (including my HTPC). The adoption rate speed for Win 10 will dramatically beat every previous Windows adoption rate timeframe going back to Windows 95, so we can't use history as an example of how quickly this is happening--Microsoft has never issued a new Windows generation for FREE before.

As for existing DX11 games, AMD cards already run most of them very well anyhow. Who cares about 10 FPS when you're saving a good chunk of money, and the AMD card is even with or beats the nVidia card that's $50-$100 more expensive in new DX12 games. Only an nVidiot would pay the Green Goblin tax for that.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Let's assume that you are 100% correct. 25% of the market will switch from 7/8.1 to 10 during the first year, when it is a free upgrade. Let's consider that after that Goldilocks transition, that the rest of the market transitions with a half life of 2 years (37.5% in 2 years, 18.75% in 4 years, etc...). The average development cycle for games is anywhere between 18 months and 36 months, but let's make it easy and call it two years.

Math time.

25% market share year 1, 62.5% year 3, and 81.25% year 5. That means that the tipping point for 50% of market share is somewhere between year 2 and 3. Furthermore, you've got two years of development for the software. Let's not even factor in the variations of what DX12 compatible means (the 7xxx series from AMD is getting love from it, so there's obviously some disparity). That means that if you want 50% of the market demanding DX12 you'll have to wait a minimum of four years for software to mostly be on board with you. That's fast adoption, but that's also two generations of GPU. Speculating that far out on hardware is just insane.


In short, AMD having an 18% market share today won't be fixed by DX12. AMD needs to have its Arctic Islands GPUs succeed. They've got the console market pretty much locked, but that market is margin business. The very thin margins are largely used as a book keeping tool to absorb overhead costs. Zen is still too far off to matter, and Intel will be a more staunch competitor in the low end (read: integrated graphics and APU) market. I love AMD products, and demonstrate that regularly by buying them. At the same time, AMD is making some goofy decisions. Nvidia prints money only because AMD can't be bothered to conform to their market. The whole idea of an APU proved they were innovative, but sometimes innovation isn't performance. Bulldozer adequately demonstrated innovation in failure.

If the Arctic Islands chips offer the node size reduction performance boost, while running cooler, I'd be hard pressed to not buy AMD hardware. Right now, AMD is geared towards the future (more VRAM and better DX12 feature support), but Nvidia is rooted better in the present. My only hopes is that the future arrives before public opinion damages AMD. Seriously though, try running a VRAM heavy game on a 390 and a 970. If after that experience you still want the 970 then you are a fanboy. Of course, if VRAM usage is minimized, the 970 does a lot to endear. Personally, I like the bells and whistles high, so the more VRAM the better. When 4k is a gaming standard, the 970 won't even hack it as an entry level offering.
 

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It hasn't even been out a month yet...

Microsoft said "a few months" for GWX to push updates out to people.
 
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This is just wrong on so many levels.

Who in their right mind with ALL that money to play with tosses out a crippled mid/high end card, continually releases graphics features that are performance hogs and glitchy, then insults the competition when they slip into financial trouble?

A very greedy and desparate nVidia, that's who. To paraphrase Mark Twain, reports of AMD's death are greatly exaggerated.

A lot of people are going to discover that AMD's Radeon lineup is a refresh precisely because it already performs so well in DX12. The adoption rate of Windows 10 is expected to break all previous records for Windows migration:

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...lmost-a-quarter-of-all-pcs-within-a-year.html

So AMD didn't need to release its next generation chip across its product stack (which is what nVidia's Maxwell is, on 28nm) until it had access to 14nm process size. Their entire product stack competes very, very well with nVidia's when you look at DX12 performance. nVidia has managed to use their money and additional employees to hand optimize their drivers for previous versions of DX, because previous DX versions were so crappy and inefficient (single core only), it was possible for them to find obscure optimizations and tweaks, but DX12 will reveal the strength of GCN and its asynchronous shaders. With DX12, the drivers are much simpler, so AMD doesn't have to have armies of driver programmers to optimize for every single game, and DX12 reveals the strength of the hardware architecture much more readily, an area where AMD is very strong.

It's nVidia that should probably be worrying, as things are liable to get quite a bit worse for them going forward:

1) Intel and AMD are continually releasing faster and faster integrated graphics on their x86 APUs, and by the sounds of the Zen core APU AMD is equipping with integrated Greenland graphics and possibly, onboard HBM, nVidia's (and AMD's) mid-range add-in board business is about to get a whole lot smaller. It's probable that with the Zen APU, many gamers may be able to simply get a good experience with just the integrated graphics for the first time. Since nVidia cannot produce an x86 APU, the writing is on the wall that they will eventually be crushed by Intel and AMD's faster and faster integrated graphics. In 5 years, we might know nVidia as primarily as an automobile ARM chip supplier, and not a gaming graphics chip maker.

2) nVidia has been raking in extra revenues from royalties Intel agreed to pay them until the end of 2016. This has been about $66 million/year. After that, it's by no means certain that Intel will continue with this agreement, potentially cutting off this source of revenue.

3) AMD has the revenues and market presence and relationships with Microsoft and most game software writers through their console sweep.

God forbid AMD should go away and leave us with the dark side that is Nvidia with sole control of the GPU market.

Relax. This is extremely unlikely. AMD has nearly a billon in cash and is about to release their first new, good x86 CPU core with Zen next year. This core is aimed not just at consumers, but squarely at data centers/servers, as the powerful AMD Opterons of old used to be, too. This is where the real money is, and AMD should be able to significantly improve its market share in data centers/servers, with this core. Many have expressed some cynicism about whether it will be good. All I can say is that the designer of this new core, Jim Keller, designed the AMD Athlon 64, and has never produced a dud. His track record is exceptional, so it's very likely Zen will be good.
 
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64K

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@anubis44 AMD may have a billion in cash technically but they owe over 2 billion in debt. They borrowed that 1 billion and re-payment with interest is due in 2019. AMD isn't making a profit. They have no way to repay their debt with interest.

AMD is in worse shape than you might think. I don't like it. I wish it was different but they are on the edge.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/081415/advanced-micro-devices-bankruptcy-imminent.asp

http://www.investopedia.com/article...nced-micro-devices-amd-ever-make-comeback.asp
 

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I really wonder how it'll stack up against ASUS GTX 970 DirectCU Mini. That card is pretty much the same dimensions as R9 Nano...

If preliminary specifications are anything to go by, it really shouldn't be that hard for the R9 Nano if AMD does keep power consumption in check as promised. The DCII Mini's design hasn't changed a single bit since the original GTX 670 DCII Mini. Sapphire's R9 285 Mini is already looking promising, so it remains to be seen if that means anything for Nano.

A lot of people are going to discover that AMD's Radeon lineup is a refresh precisely because it already performs so well in DX12. The adoption rate of Windows 10 is expected to break all previous records for Windows migration:

AMD has nearly a billon in cash and is about to release their first new, good x86 CPU core with Zen next year.

Hey hey hey hey hey. Didn't people say that prior to the release of Bulldozer? "Phenom X6 1100T is a good competitor for the price but it has growing problems that will surely be remedied by AMD's new Bulldozer architecture."

I'm not saying that Zen doesn't have the potential to turn things around. I'm saying that if AMD wants to make a comeback, they need to offer something that is competitive with Kaby Lake, not Skylake, not Broadwell. In other words, basically Zero to Hero with what they have now, and perhaps taking cues from K10's book because they don't have that much money to be designing a completely brand new core. Not only do they need to make a strong showing on the hardware side, they need to seriously rethink their marketing approach, or else this is going to be a flop no matter how much of an improvement Zen is compared to Excavator-Bulldozer. I said earlier that Carrizo was not well marketed, thus hardly anyone knew about it. I have to rephrase; Carrizo has virtually died. And if AMD doesn't start turning this around, Zen is going to virtually fade into oblivion.

Scalability is coming afterwards, after we see how Zen is; have patience, fast one. AMD has completely squandered what was left of their server market after the Bulldozer Opterons were not well received and their proposed ARM Opteron just disappeared off the face of the earth.

I also didn't realize that AMD's engineers looked into the future and decided to rebrand based on potential DX12 performance. The reason Pitcairn is still alive, I surmised, is because its Pro and XT configurations just happen to be competitive with what Nvidia has to offer at a specific price point, without considering power consumption. Also, Windows 10 is expected to break records for adoption, but in the enthusiast community, that is not the case. There is a shitstorm going down about Windows 10's privacy issues here in the minority. Among the eager adopters (who don't care for privacy issues and don't have a sophisticated "gaming rig"), hardly any of them are rocking HD 7970s and HD 7870s. They would be on i5-3210Ms instead and be busy writing word documents or surfing the web, not playing games. Although people don't seem to listen, I cannot stress enough the fact that most games do not look like Ashes of the Singularity.
 
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A lot of people are going to discover that AMD's Radeon lineup is a refresh precisely because it already performs so well in DX12. The adoption rate of Windows 10 is expected to break all previous records for Windows migration:

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...lmost-a-quarter-of-all-pcs-within-a-year.html

So AMD didn't need to release its next generation chip across its product stack (which is what nVidia's Maxwell is, on 28nm) until it had access to 14nm process size. Their entire product stack competes very, very well with nVidia's when you look at DX12 performance. nVidia has managed to use their money and additional employees to hand optimize their drivers for previous versions of DX, because previous DX versions were so crappy and inefficient (single core only), it was possible for them to find obscure optimizations and tweaks, but DX12 will reveal the strength of GCN and its asynchronous shaders. With DX12, the drivers are much simpler, so AMD doesn't have to have armies of driver programmers to optimize for every single game, and DX12 reveals the strength of the hardware architecture much more readily, an area where AMD is very strong.

2) nVidia has been raking in extra revenues from royalties Intel agreed to pay them until the end of 2016. This has been about $66 million/year. After that, it's by no means certain that Intel will continue with this agreement, potentially cutting off this source of revenue.

3) AMD has the revenues and market presence and relationships with Microsoft and most game software writers through their console sweep.

Wow, where to start? So, AMD did a refresh on almost everything BECAUSE they already knew how awesome their cards all would be at DX12 (you have an official reference or citation to back this?), and not because poor management has run them into the ground, denying them adequate R&D, adequate marketing, etc? Ok, got it! :rolleyes:

I see you are still preaching the phenomenally optimistic adoption rates for W10, based on almost no data by one company as the reason DX12 is all that will be around. Riiight......:rolleyes: (see post #82 by @lilhasselhoffer and read it carefully).

Oh, and then I see you change your mind on why AMD did mostly refreshes. I guess it wasn't their foreknowledge of awesome DX12 ass-whooping...now you contend it's because they "didn't need to" until they had access to 14nm. :banghead:(again, any official reference?)

re: 2) $66 million a year from Intel is pocket change. It's not doing alot for Nvidia's bottom line.
re: 3) What AMD revenues from Microsoft? You mean the chips they put in Xbones that they are practically paying Microsoft to use? Those?

All I see here in your writing is alot of extreme fanboyism, revisionist history writing, and wishful thinking. You act as if everybody here is against AMD. Nothing could be further from the truth. The intelligent people here though, are able to differentiate feelings from fact, and actually point out AMD's deficiencies that have put it in the crapper...things they have done to themselves. Truth many times hurts, but that doesn't make it untruthful. AMD cannot even repay its debt, which is twice what they have in (borrowed)cash, as @64K pointed out. Think about that.
 
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its been pretty obvious that the console market has attracted alot of AMD's attention. So its not surprising Nvidia took advantage of that to try to push for more market share. What we could be seeing is a total shift in AMD towards mobile, low power, and consoles only. Intel is making a huge stab into the low power market with the NUC platform and its been really nice. If amd can improve the lowend cpu side they could easily muscle intel out though as the graphics on their apu's are simply better and streamlining their operations would make it even easier. Intel is bigger sure, but lets face it they let the mobile market pass them right by despite former dominance. The NUC and low powered mini descktops look like the future right now.

graphics may be lacking but they are getting better and an i3 is plenty for gaming. Monolithic desktops will be around but will continue to get more and more pricey. So to be honest. I'm not sure how much the discreet graphics market means to AMD at the moment. Like the highend cpu battle with Intel AMD might just be content to let nvidia have it and simply use it to practice new technologies they want to use on their more mobile platforms and consoles.

Or did you all really think that HBM was made for discreet? Think about it, AMD already has all the console contracts and suddenly develop a memory system that takes up less space, reduces long term costs, and puts off less heat while offering more performance. It's raw and they needed a platform to test it on so boom here you go discreet market. Now imagine how refined it will be in 4-5 years when the next consoles come out. How much better will AMD be at making consoles then?

For me I'm not worried at all about AMD's future. Will their be a bankruptcy? maybe, but only to purge old debts. They will emerge from it leaner and stronger and you'll see them more focused on the future of the pc.

Right now Nvidia has had to hedge its bets on the past. They're doing awesome at it but the loss of the consoles to AMD and the fact that every single mobile (non PC) gpu they've put out has failed to attract attention will come back to bite them. Hopefully they'll weather that storm. Because right now Intel + Nvidia look to be the only options that extremists will have 5 years from now. AMD will be around sure, but they won't care about you. Their customers will settle for much less performance in exchange for mobility, power, heat, and size.
 

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Bankruptcy might actually be a good thing for AMD. They can restructure debt which has been a dark cloud hovering over them since 2006 (ATI overvalued buyout).

its been pretty obvious that the console market has attracted alot of AMD's attention. So its not surprising Nvidia took advantage of that to try to push for more market share. What we could be seeing is a total shift in AMD towards mobile, low power, and consoles only. Intel is making a huge stab into the low power market with the NUC platform and its been really nice. If amd can improve the lowend cpu side they could easily muscle intel out though as the graphics on their apu's are simply better and streamlining their operations would make it even easier. Intel is bigger sure, but lets face it they let the mobile market pass them right by despite former dominance. The NUC and low powered mini descktops look like the future right now.
AMD has no hope here. In terms of power consumption, 28/32nm can't hold a light to 14nm.


I really hope Intel extends an olive branch to AMD (by way of granting limited access to their 22nm or 14nm fabs). If AMD goes into bankruptcy, Intel has to deal with unknowns. Like Microsoft extending an olive branch to Apple in the 1990s, it's better to keep a competitor afloat than deal with the unknown.
 
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I'm not sure I'd call it an unknown but more aptly to avoid being a monopoly. It's easier keeping the shrimp around than dealing with Uncle Sam.
 

tabascosauz

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Intel is making a huge stab into the low power market with the NUC platform and its been really nice. If amd can improve the lowend cpu side they could easily muscle intel out though as the graphics on their apu's are simply better and streamlining their operations would make it even easier. Intel is bigger sure, but lets face it they let the mobile market pass them right by despite former dominance. The NUC and low powered mini descktops look like the future right now.

This isn't happening. Have you seen the abomination that is Carrizo? I was plenty excited for the power improvements, only to find that AMD has hardly done anything except reduce the TDP. It still takes their top FX 35W part to be competitive with a Broadwell ULV i3 on the CPU side of things. Carrizo-L is just painful to read about. NUC and ULV doesn't mean that CPUs are easy to cool. It's quite the opposite. You don't have the surface area of a laptop, and everything including storage and memory needs to be crammed into that small cube.
 

Tatty_Two

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Funny thing is, the desktop market has fallen across the board in Q2 of 2015 (I think Q2 is historically poor in any case), NVidia have also taken a hit, just AMD's hit is bigger, figures adjust when you look at discreet.... notebook etc according to this which has some interesting reading........

http://jonpeddie.com/publications/market_watch
 
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This isn't happening. Have you seen the abomination that is Carrizo? I was plenty excited for the power improvements, only to find that AMD has hardly done anything except reduce the TDP. It still takes their top FX 35W part to be competitive with a Broadwell ULV i3 on the CPU side of things. Carrizo-L is just painful to read about. NUC and ULV doesn't mean that CPUs are easy to cool. It's quite the opposite. You don't have the surface area of a laptop, and everything including storage and memory needs to be crammed into that small cube.
Bankruptcy might actually be a good thing for AMD. They can restructure debt which has been a dark cloud hovering over them since 2006 (ATI overvalued buyout).


AMD has no hope here. In terms of power consumption, 28/32nm can't hold a light to 14nm.


I really hope Intel extends an olive branch to AMD (by way of granting limited access to their 22nm or 14nm fabs). If AMD goes into bankruptcy, Intel has to deal with unknowns. Like Microsoft extending an olive branch to Apple in the 1990s, it's better to keep a competitor afloat than deal with the unknown.

You both have no idea what's going on. AMD doesn't have to compete with a 15w unit because no one cares sub 100w. We sell the Nucs as media appliances at my company and 15w is a nice little spec to toss out there for the clients, but no one actually cares. Now being able to game at 1080p vs 720p yeah people care about that just as they care about slide show vs acceptible frames. When you all talk with clients, see what they need and sell thousands of units then you can talk to me. HBM isn't on their current line up so they have to rely on much slower and power hungry ddr, that will change. The fab issues affect all parties so bringing it up is pointless. Not to mention AMD ALREADY HAS THE CONSOLE MARKET. you two are as bad as the media all doom and gloom when the reality is quite different.
 
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Not to mention AMD ALREADY HAS THE CONSOLE MARKET. you two are as bad as the media all doom and gloom when the reality is quite different.
The Console market isn't that big of a money maker. AMD barely makes anything on the licensing of their apu for them. So might well stop even that up when it doesn't even mean that much money given how much they are losing every quarter.
 

FordGT90Concept

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The fab issues affect all parties so bringing it up is pointless.
There's three fabs that matter: Intel (14nm), GloFlo (AMD CPUs; 28/32nm), and TSMC (AMD GPUs and NVIDIA; 28nm). The fab issues are the reason why GPUs are stuck in a rut and the reason why Intel CPUs are bitch slapping AMD's. It's far from pointless; it's the crux of the problem.

Not to mention AMD ALREADY HAS THE CONSOLE MARKET.
That's actually a negative when the profit margins are so small. AMD is being pulled in four directions simultaneously (console, discreet GPU, desktop processors, and mobile processors). They don't have the resources to do even a good job at any of them even if they quit everything else and focus only on one thing. AMD is grasping at straws because they're literally out of options.



Addendum to my previous post: I think Intel has already thrown a bone to AMD by not getting into discreet graphics cards. Intel has demonstrated they know how to make GPUs with Broadwell and there's literally nothing stopping them from taking that technology, slapping a few compute units on it, adding memory, and selling it on a PCI Express card. If AMD is knocked out for good, I'd put money on Intel doing just that so NVIDIA isn't unopposed. A few years after that, I wouldn't be surprised if regulators come in and trust-bust Intel (Xeon Phi and unnamed graphics cards split off to compete with NVIDIA, Intel's staff and IP split into two separate companies that need to compete with each other, Intel's fabs and assembly plants give to those companies, x86 made public domain, and Havok, McAfee split off into a separate software company).
 
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If AMD doesn't have a profitable next few quarters they will fall under $1.00 and get delisted. This will be the death blow to AMD...it will also be a death blow to competition. It would be a perfect time for Samsung to buy AMD. I actually think that is more likely to happen...maybe not Samsung but I do think AMD will be purchased if they fall under $1.00...and they are damn close hovering around $1.75.

AMD will probably try a reverse split before they get delisted, unless they get purchased first.
 

FordGT90Concept

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I think anyone looking at acquiring AMD would wait until they file for bankruptcy in 2019. Don't have to deal with the run on AMD stocks then which means they end up paying pennies on the dollar. It's not like there's any chance AMD recovers before then.
 

tabascosauz

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You both have no idea what's going on. AMD doesn't have to compete with a 15w unit because no one cares sub 100w. We sell the Nucs as media appliances at my company and 15w is a nice little spec to toss out there for the clients, but no one actually cares. Now being able to game at 1080p vs 720p yeah people care about that just as they care about slide show vs acceptible frames. When you all talk with clients, see what they need and sell thousands of units then you can talk to me. HBM isn't on their current line up so they have to rely on much slower and power hungry ddr, that will change. The fab issues affect all parties so bringing it up is pointless. Not to mention AMD ALREADY HAS THE CONSOLE MARKET. you two are as bad as the media all doom and gloom when the reality is quite different.

I wasn't the one getting aggressive, but I'm just going to remind you that NUC is a product of Intel, and AMD has no say in how powerful/power hungry these are. It doesn't matter if a cooling solution can be designed around AMD's 65W A10-7800 or 95W 7870K. Intel's set the standards, and something NUC-esque is (and should be) the last of AMD's concerns at the moment. Good luck getting anything more powerful than AM1 in such a form factor with CMT in the way. That's why Zen is so imperative to everything that AMD is involved in.

AMD is already established in the embedded market. I don't think you understand that. Do you think that NUCs enjoy widespread popularity right now? No. And this is coming from Intel, which sets the standards right now.
 
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I think anyone looking at acquiring AMD would wait until they file for bankruptcy in 2019. Don't have to deal with the run on AMD stocks then which means they end up paying pennies on the dollar. It's not like there's any chance AMD recovers before then.
They know it is coming. Considering they are paying executives like they are as profitable as Intel...This is a clear sign of a dying business - http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...icro-devices-inc-amd-enriches-executives.aspx
 
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So, let's talk some business here.

AMD owns no fabrication facilities. AMD basically owns the home console market. AMD is somewhere between 20% and 25% of the discrete GPU market. AMD is behind Intel in fabrication technology, because the fabricators they contract out to are a generation or two behind Intel. These are all facts we can agree to, because they are either incontrovertible, or have statistical backups.

Now, let's consider AMD's position. They are a publicly traded company, who has functionally no labor costs. They design chips, test them out, and then have their IP produced by someone else. This means you've got significantly less of your resources into physical components, but it also makes you beholden to whomever can make your stuff.

As AMD, I'd look to do two things. Keep control of the console market, to act as a cost absorption sponge and never turn a profit.



Those with tons of skills are probably looking at me, and getting ready to call me an idiot. Hear me out first.
Absorption costs on IP are generally going to be huge. Running small batch fabrication (testing) has very large costs, and justifying the small army of indirect labor would make any company look bad. If you book all of that cost to a high volume, low margin, business segment the costs vanish. Sell 1,000,000 units, and that $10,000 expense is only $0.01 per unit. Yeah, the AMD costs are much higher, but $0.10 per unit is almost a rounding error on a $100 chip. Turning a profit is fantastic, if you want to remain exactly where you are. Surprisingly enough, accountants can rather easily hide money as other expenses. Can you say R&D expenditures kiddies? Invest the money into research, and suddenly that huge profit was a marginal loss. Assuming the R&D budget isn't spent, it can be rolled forward into new ventures. Who's to say that R&D doesn't need to produce a small scale fabrication facility, designed to pump out only the highest end GPU chips? Investors don't have to be any the wiser, and AMD gets to be profitable without ever being profitable on paper.


So, is AMD in trouble? Financially speaking, they've gotten into a pickle. At the same time, pickles are pretty tasty with potato chips. Chapter 11 restructuring and bankruptcy could be a useful tool. The US has allowed some crappy airlines, and criminally guilty bankers, to get a pass on this sort of thing. It's reasonable that the DoD would arrange something to keep AMD afloat, given AMD supplies them hardware. AMD could shed its debt, restructure, and wait out their foundries being too far behind Intel. Heck, an 18 month protected restructuring would suck for your average employee, but just imagine the triumphant return of AMD to the CPU game with Zen, a processor one generation behind Intel and designed for heterogeneous computing. Nothing quite like a phoenix rising from the ashes to inspire Intel to stop popping incrimentaly improved CPUs, with more and more die space cannibalized by a meh iGPU. At around the same time Arctic Islands successor could be introduced, with the supposed gains of DX12 actually being demonstrable.



AMD isn't out of the fight because Nvidia GPUs are uniformly better. AMD is out of the fight because their management is "special." All they need is someone with some chutzpah to show why they are great. Despite what has been said, Intel cannot release a GPU right now. Yes, IRIS is great for some things, but even when upped to a full card it'd perform crappy (gotta love GPU patented technologies). Half of the benefits to IRIS come from being on a CPU. There's no processing of data over a bus, minimal buffering between CPU and GPU, and no reason to believe that a GPU sized IRIS chip would offer better performance than a similarly sized GPU from Nvidia or AMD. Just because IRIS doesn't suck, doesn't mean it could be scaled up into something more useful. Sometimes scaling up something small that works leads to a much larger problem. If that's an annoying concept to grasp, then tell why Intel doesn't just triple buffer sizes in their chips to allow more data to be readily accessed.
 
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