• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

X99 vs Z170 - which to prefer?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 138597
  • Start date
D

Deleted member 138597

Guest
X99 & Z170 platforms are almost same in price. So tell me which is better, X99 or Z170? Z170 does seems to have more PCIe 3.0 lanes, USB ports and bandwith but lacks on SATA storage (although I care least about it). So, Z170 does look better on paper but how is it in real world? Is it really better than X99 (PCH only)?

ark.intel.com/compare/81761,90591
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
Actually, X99 has more lanes and I think even with basic 5820K CPU. On X99 you can actually run 2 graphic cards with PCIe x16 mode on both where Z170 can only do 2x PCIe x8 mode. I mean, even my ancient X58 can run 2x PCIe x16. Intel kinda reserved this to the highest end...

Skylake is certainly the way to go product node wise, however as things stand now, hexa cores sound more appealing.
Firstly, 6700k is actually a very crappy overclocker. Considering it's running at 4,2GHz and people brag about "extreme" overclocks and then they only get up to 4,7 GHz. If this is "extreme", then what's 5820K going from 3,3GHz to 4,5GHz? Also, with DX12, a lot of games displayed a huge benefit from more cores. So, even basic 5820K has 6 physical cores and 12 threads. Which is significant for today's "conditions". I mean, Skylake is still exactly the same configuration as prehistoric Core i7 920... Hell, even i7 980X was a hexa core and that was like 5+ years ago...

6700k caught my attention due to 16nm, but frankly, X99 with 5820K sounds like a better option...
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
2,068 (0.56/day)
System Name Ryzen 2023
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7700
Motherboard Asrock B650E Steel Legend Wifi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory G Skill Flare X5 2x16gb cl32@6000 MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 6950 XT Nitro + gaming Oc
Storage WESTERN DIGITAL 1TB 64MB 7k SATA600 Blue WD10EZEX, WD Black SN850X 1Tb nvme
Display(s) LG 27GP850P-B
Case Corsair 5000D airflow tempered glass
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-850W
Mouse A4Tech V7M bloody
Keyboard Genius KB-G255
Software Windows 10 64bit
Only for gaming the X99 is not worth it. It's great and all but price/performance is just not there.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
It clocks really well. It's a 6 core. It'll matter for DX12. So it's future proof. Because of first two factors, it's also a really good cruncher. Skylake only has benefit at power efficiency. If you need the grunt, 5820K is the only way to go.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Messages
3,623 (0.90/day)
Location
GMT +2
System Name Red Radiance l under construction
Processor 5800x
Motherboard x470 taichi
Cooling stock wrath
Memory TridentZ Neo rgb 3600mhz (2x8 kit)
Video Card(s) Sapphire Vega 64 nitro+
Storage 970 evo nvme
Display(s) lc27g75tq
Case tt core x5 tge
Audio Device(s) sennheiser's pc323d usb soundcard
Power Supply corsair AX860i
Mouse roccat burst pro
Keyboard roccat ryos mk fx
Software windows 10
instead of asking for every part. give us a budget, link to the shop you will buy from and what you need pc for (resolution of your monitor too). we will give you full builds to chose from.
 
D

Deleted member 138597

Guest
Actually, X99 has more lanes and I think even with basic 5820K CPU. On X99 you can actually run 2 graphic cards with PCIe x16 mode on both where Z170 can only do 2x PCIe x8 mode. I mean, even my ancient X58 can run 2x PCIe x16. Intel kinda reserved this to the highest end...

Skylake is certainly the way to go product node wise, however as things stand now, hexa cores sound more appealing.
Firstly, 6700k is actually a very crappy overclocker. Considering it's running at 4,2GHz and people brag about "extreme" overclocks and then they only get up to 4,7 GHz. If this is "extreme", then what's 5820K going from 3,3GHz to 4,5GHz? Also, with DX12, a lot of games displayed a huge benefit from more cores. So, even basic 5820K has 6 physical cores and 12 threads. Which is significant for today's "conditions". I mean, Skylake is still exactly the same configuration as prehistoric Core i7 920... Hell, even i7 980X was a hexa core and that was like 5+ years ago...

6700k caught my attention due to 16nm, but frankly, X99 with 5820K sounds like a better option...

It clocks really well. It's a 6 core. It'll matter for DX12. So it's future proof. Because of first two factors, it's also a really good cruncher. Skylake only has benefit at power efficiency. If you need the grunt, 5820K is the only way to go.

So as it stands, even though Z170 is bringing "more" and "new", Haswell-E + X99 is a much better option than Skylake.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
I'd say yes. Skylake is tempting since it's so new, but the lack of extra cores (4C/8T is really an outdated design for 2015 high end). I was all hyped for the Skylake, but I'm also leaning towards 5820K and X99 now. Seeing how ridiculously long my current X58 platform with most basic CPU for it kept me running for so long I have a very good confidence in these as well. It is a bit more expensive, but then again I was looking at Sabertooth X99 motherboard so that's understandable... CPU itself is around the same price 5820K vs 6700K...
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,709 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
I'd say yes. Skylake is tempting since it's so new, but the lack of extra cores (4C/8T is really an outdated design for 2015 high end). I was all hyped for the Skylake, but I'm also leaning towards 5820K and X99 now. Seeing how ridiculously long my current X58 platform with most basic CPU for it kept me running for so long I have a very good confidence in these as well. It is a bit more expensive, but then again I was looking at Sabertooth X99 motherboard so that's understandable... CPU itself is around the same price 5820K vs 6700K...

The Sabertooth is a nice piece of hardware man. My favorite X99 board so far, and I go through them like new pairs of shoes (3 since launch, trust me, my wallet hates me).

Given the choice between Skylake and X99 on mobos alone, I'd go with X99 just for that board. And the additional cores doesn't hurt either.

The only real question I have if I were upgrading now vs soon is whether or not Skylake-E will be released.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
4,179 (1.15/day)
Location
Texas
System Name SnowFire / The Reinforcer
Processor i7 10700K 5.1ghz (24/7) / 2x Xeon E52650v2
Motherboard Asus Strix Z490 / Dell Dual Socket (R720)
Cooling RX 360mm + 140mm Custom Loop / Dell Stock
Memory Corsair RGB 16gb DDR4 3000 CL 16 / DDR3 128gb 16 x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX Titan XP (2025mhz) / Asus GTX 950 (No Power Connector)
Storage Samsung 970 1tb NVME and 2tb HDD x4 RAID 5 / 300gb x8 RAID 5
Display(s) Acer XG270HU, Samsung G7 Odyssey (1440p 240hz)
Case Thermaltake Cube / Dell Poweredge R720 Rack Mount Case
Audio Device(s) Realtec ALC1150 (On board)
Power Supply Rosewill Lightning 1300Watt / Dell Stock 750 / Brick
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G19S
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows Server 2016
X99 & Z170 platforms are almost same in price. So tell me which is better, X99 or Z170? Z170 does seems to have more PCIe 3.0 lanes, USB ports and bandwith but lacks on SATA storage (although I care least about it). So, Z170 does look better on paper but how is it in real world? Is it really better than X99 (PCH only)?

ark.intel.com/compare/81761,90591
I prefer the X99 especially now because the new skylake processors barely have any upgrade CPU wise. You can now get a 5820K and a cheaper X99 motherboard for not much more (Around $50+ bucks) than a 6700K and Z170 motherboard depending on the price of the Z170 board and you end up with 2 cores and 4 more threads total.

For gaming, they may perform similarly but the 5820K having more cores might be better in the long run.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,261 (0.32/day)
System Name Some computer stuff
Processor Mostly Intel or AMD
Motherboard ATX or mATX
Cooling Bong Cooler
Memory DDR2-4
Video Card(s) A few
Storage Plenty Platters or SSDs or USBs
Display(s) Samsung 23"
Case 5 on the floor
Audio Device(s) There's one for my M7 Gene, Oh I have 3-4 PCI 5.1 ones.Sabrent! lol
Power Supply 750-1000W
Mouse cheap
Keyboard Used ps2 from garage sales
Software Yeah
Benchmark Scores http://hwbot.org/user/schmuckley/#Hardware_Library http://valid.canardpc.com/rbjpbg
I'm going to say z170 for 2 reasons:
1) Intel realized that FIVR is fail and removed it on z170.
2) Noteworthy higher IPC for gaming.
I'm having some x99 regret right now.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
9,231 (1.66/day)
Location
Montreal, Canada
System Name Homelabs
Processor Ryzen 5900x | Ryzen 1920X
Motherboard Asus ProArt x570 Creator | AsRock X399 fatal1ty gaming
Cooling Silent Loop 2 280mm | Dark Rock Pro TR4
Memory 128GB (4x32gb) DDR4 3600Mhz | 128GB (8x16GB) DDR4 2933Mhz
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3080 | ASUS Strix GTX 970
Storage Optane 900p + NVMe | Optane 900p + 8TB SATA SSDs + 48TB HDDs
Display(s) Alienware AW3423dw QD-OLED | HP Omen 32 1440p
Case be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 rev 2 | be quiet! Silent Base 800
Power Supply Corsair RM750x + sleeved cables| EVGA P2 750W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate (still has buttons on the right side, crucial as I'm a southpaw)
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite, Pro Type | Logitech G915 TKL
Is there any features the Z170 has that X99 can't have? So far they both seem to have USB 3.1 (including Type-C) and M.2 x4, which are what many would care about

In terms of price, at least here in Canada, it can be a decent difference. 100-150$ more for the motherboard, i7 6700K is maybe 50$ cheaper than the 5820K, the i5 6600K is ~180$ cheaper. The i7 6700K is surprising performing very close to the 5820K in multi-threaded and beats it easily in single threaded applications. Saving 300$ and going i5 6600K seems like a good compromise, and you have to admire the 6600K's power consumption!
 
D

Deleted member 138597

Guest
And FIVR is suppose to make a comeback after Skylake and its refresh...
Wait, what? Why? Standalone FIVR is much better. Would you tell me where did you get the info?
 

MxPhenom 216

ASIC Engineer
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
12,944 (2.61/day)
Location
Loveland, CO
System Name Ryzen Reflection
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aorus Master
Cooling 2x EK PE360 | TechN AM4 AMD Block Black | EK Quantum Vector Trinity GPU Nickel + Plexi
Memory Teamgroup T-Force Xtreem 2x16GB B-Die 3600 @ 14-14-14-28-42-288-2T 1.45v
Video Card(s) Zotac AMP HoloBlack RTX 3080Ti 12G | 950mV 1950Mhz
Storage WD SN850 500GB (OS) | Samsung 980 Pro 1TB (Games_1) | Samsung 970 Evo 1TB (Games_2)
Display(s) Asus XG27AQM 240Hz G-Sync Fast-IPS | Gigabyte M27Q-P 165Hz 1440P IPS | Asus 24" IPS (portrait mode)
Case Lian Li PC-011D XL | Custom cables by Cablemodz
Audio Device(s) FiiO K7 | Sennheiser HD650 + Beyerdynamic FOX Mic
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum 850
Mouse Razer Viper v2 Pro
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Tournament Edition
Software Windows 11 Pro 64-Bit
Actually, X99 has more lanes and I think even with basic 5820K CPU. On X99 you can actually run 2 graphic cards with PCIe x16 mode on both where Z170 can only do 2x PCIe x8 mode. I mean, even my ancient X58 can run 2x PCIe x16. Intel kinda reserved this to the highest end...

Skylake is certainly the way to go product node wise, however as things stand now, hexa cores sound more appealing.
Firstly, 6700k is actually a very crappy overclocker. Considering it's running at 4,2GHz and people brag about "extreme" overclocks and then they only get up to 4,7 GHz. If this is "extreme", then what's 5820K going from 3,3GHz to 4,5GHz? Also, with DX12, a lot of games displayed a huge benefit from more cores. So, even basic 5820K has 6 physical cores and 12 threads. Which is significant for today's "conditions". I mean, Skylake is still exactly the same configuration as prehistoric Core i7 920... Hell, even i7 980X was a hexa core and that was like 5+ years ago...

6700k caught my attention due to 16nm, but frankly, X99 with 5820K sounds like a better option...
5820k can only do x16 x8 multi GPU config,or x8 x8 x8. 5920 and 5960x can do x16 x16
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
It's weird how they dumbed down PCIe lanes for graphic cards. My X58 with the most basic CPU you can stick into it, the i7 920 and I can have full dual x16. It's "just" v2.0 but still, it was max available back then. I know x8 has a minimal difference, but it's high end platform, one would expect a bit more even when using only 5820K CPU. It was one of major reasons why I've gone X58 back then, consumer versions were far more gimped in this regard. And even though I don't use multi-gfx configuration, it's nice to have full options available on system that you can use for 5+ years (like I have and still am).
 
D

Deleted member 138597

Guest
It's weird how they dumbed down PCIe lanes for graphic cards. My X58 with the most basic CPU you can stick into it, the i7 920 and I can have full dual x16. It's "just" v2.0 but still, it was max available back then. I know x8 has a minimal difference, but it's high end platform, one would expect a bit more even when using only 5820K CPU. It was one of major reasons why I've gone X58 back then, consumer versions were far more gimped in this regard. And even though I don't use multi-gfx configuration, it's nice to have full options available on system that you can use for 5+ years (like I have and still am).

Actually, that's what happens when you own the market, and there's none to challenge.
 

FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!"
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
26,259 (4.65/day)
Location
IA, USA
System Name BY-2021
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (65w eco profile)
Motherboard MSI B550 Gaming Plus
Cooling Scythe Mugen (rev 5)
Memory 2 x Kingston HyperX DDR4-3200 32 GiB
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT
Storage Samsung 980 Pro, Seagate Exos X20 TB 7200 RPM
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG274K (3840x2160@144 DP) + Samsung SyncMaster 906BW (1440x900@60 HDMI-DVI)
Case Coolermaster HAF 932 w/ USB 3.0 5.25" bay + USB 3.2 (A+C) 3.5" bay
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1150, Micca OriGen+
Power Supply Enermax Platimax 850w
Mouse Nixeus REVEL-X
Keyboard Tesoro Excalibur
Software Windows 10 Home 64-bit
Benchmark Scores Faster than the tortoise; slower than the hare.
I think Z170 is generally better than X99 because it's a big step forward in terms of technology. Z170 will not be better than the next HEDT chipset though because it will lose that technical edge.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
4,179 (1.15/day)
Location
Texas
System Name SnowFire / The Reinforcer
Processor i7 10700K 5.1ghz (24/7) / 2x Xeon E52650v2
Motherboard Asus Strix Z490 / Dell Dual Socket (R720)
Cooling RX 360mm + 140mm Custom Loop / Dell Stock
Memory Corsair RGB 16gb DDR4 3000 CL 16 / DDR3 128gb 16 x 8gb
Video Card(s) GTX Titan XP (2025mhz) / Asus GTX 950 (No Power Connector)
Storage Samsung 970 1tb NVME and 2tb HDD x4 RAID 5 / 300gb x8 RAID 5
Display(s) Acer XG270HU, Samsung G7 Odyssey (1440p 240hz)
Case Thermaltake Cube / Dell Poweredge R720 Rack Mount Case
Audio Device(s) Realtec ALC1150 (On board)
Power Supply Rosewill Lightning 1300Watt / Dell Stock 750 / Brick
Mouse Logitech G5
Keyboard Logitech G19S
Software Windows 11 Pro / Windows Server 2016
X99 & Z170 platforms are almost same in price. So tell me which is better, X99 or Z170? Z170 does seems to have more PCIe 3.0 lanes, USB ports and bandwith but lacks on SATA storage (although I care least about it). So, Z170 does look better on paper but how is it in real world? Is it really better than X99 (PCH only)?

ark.intel.com/compare/81761,90591
Actually, X99 even on the lowest 5820K has more PCIE lanes without including boards that have the PLX chips.

If you want my opinion, I would say X99 is a better value at the moment over the Z170 and an i7. The IPC performance of the two chips are almost identical with very slight edge to the 6700K, however the 5820K has more cores and threads available which in the end can be better in the long run for gamers if DX12 takes off soon or games begin to really take into account more cores/threads. As for the rest of the features the Z170 has, yes they are quite nice but the reality if the differences they make is probably going to be very minimal in the real world IMHO. I have seen the many different reviews of the 6700K and the Z170 chipset and to me its only about a few updates on the chipset which make it cool.

In the end, your going to have to decide if the updated features mean more than having extra cores and threads. Because if it was me in this situation, I would not hesitate to choose the X99 platform as I feel your getting more value from the processor than you are with the 6700K.
 

Aquinus

Resident Wat-man
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
13,147 (2.96/day)
Location
Concord, NH, USA
System Name Apollo
Processor Intel Core i9 9880H
Motherboard Some proprietary Apple thing.
Memory 64GB DDR4-2667
Video Card(s) AMD Radeon Pro 5600M, 8GB HBM2
Storage 1TB Apple NVMe, 4TB External
Display(s) Laptop @ 3072x1920 + 2x LG 5k Ultrafine TB3 displays
Case MacBook Pro (16", 2019)
Audio Device(s) AirPods Pro, Sennheiser HD 380s w/ FIIO Alpen 2, or Logitech 2.1 Speakers
Power Supply 96w Power Adapter
Mouse Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard Logitech G915, GL Clicky
Software MacOS 12.1
The core question to any new build has yet to be asked so, I'm going to ask it: What do you intend to use this computer for?

If the goal is gaming, I would probably find it hard to justify X99 unless there is a special caveat as to the purpose of the build but, most people won't need the cores or the PCI-E lanes that X99 offers.
 

peche

Thermaltake fanboy
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
6,709 (1.96/day)
Location
San Jose, Costa Rica
System Name Athenna
Processor intel i7 3770 *Dellided*
Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 Rev. 1.1
Cooling Thermaltake Water 3.0 Pro + Tt Riing12 x2 / Tt ThunderBlade / Gelid Slim 120UV fans
Memory 16GB DRR3 Kingoston with Custom Tt spreaders + HyperX Fan
Video Card(s) GeForce GTX 980 4GB Nvidia Sample
Storage Crucial M4 SSD 64GB's / Seagate Barracuda 2TB / Seagate Barracuda 320GB's
Display(s) 22" LG FLATRON 1920 x 1280p
Case Thermaltake Commander G42 Window
Audio Device(s) On-board Dolby 5.1+ Kingston HyperX Cloud 1
Power Supply Themaltake TR2 700W 80plus bronce & APC Pro backup 1000Va
Mouse Tt eSports Level 10M Rev 1.0 Diamond Black & Tt Conkor "L" mouse pad
Keyboard Tt eSports KNUCKER
Software windows 10x64Pro
Benchmark Scores well I've fried a 775' P4 12 years ago, that counts?
well
http://ark.intel.com/compare/88195,82932
Comparison at specs vs specs ... does not show any real benefit on the 6700K, 5820K show more interesting features, also price on 5820K is minimal taking on consideration that is 6C / 12T, can offer mooarr for working, gamming and also in my humble opinion will be little bit moar future proof,

my main question about this will be temps...
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
Well, 5820K has more cores and is made on older node. So, naturally, it'll be hotter. And it also has voltage regulator inside the CPU which also contribute some heat whwere voltage regulator on Skylake are external and are located on motherboard.
 
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
3,450 (0.57/day)
Location
CA, US
System Name :)
Processor Intel 13700k
Motherboard Gigabyte z790 UD AC
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory 64GB GSKILL DDR5
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC
Storage 960GB Optane 905P U.2 SSD + 4TB PCIe4 U.2 SSD
Display(s) Alienware AW3423DW 175Hz QD-OLED + Nixeus 27" IPS 1440p 144Hz
Case Fractal Design Torrent
Audio Device(s) MOTU M4 - JBL 305P MKII w/2x JL Audio 10 Sealed --- X-Fi Titanium HD - Presonus Eris E5 - JBL 4412
Power Supply Silverstone 1000W
Mouse Roccat Kain 122 AIMO
Keyboard KBD67 Lite / Mammoth75
VR HMD Reverb G2 V2
Software Win 11 Pro
I'd say yes. Skylake is tempting since it's so new, but the lack of extra cores (4C/8T is really an outdated design for 2015 high end). I was all hyped for the Skylake, but I'm also leaning towards 5820K and X99 now. Seeing how ridiculously long my current X58 platform with most basic CPU for it kept me running for so long I have a very good confidence in these as well. It is a bit more expensive, but then again I was looking at Sabertooth X99 motherboard so that's understandable... CPU itself is around the same price 5820K vs 6700K...

kinda off topic

My x58 with i7 970 was great. If you can find a 970 for a good price, it'll make your rig much faster and cooler.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Messages
13,791 (1.94/day)
I'm already running my i7 920 at 3.9 GHz with Turbo at 1.3V with all the power saving features enabled. Anything beyond this and I have to disable powe saving stuf to even get a stable desktop boot. So I kidna decided to stick at this point.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
5,717 (0.98/day)
System Name Virtual Reality / Bioinformatics
Processor Undead CPU
Motherboard Undead TUF X99
Cooling Noctua NH-D15
Memory GSkill 128GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s) EVGA RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra
Storage Samsung 960 Pro 1TB + 860 EVO 2TB + WD Black 5TB
Display(s) 32'' 4K Dell
Case Fractal Design R5
Audio Device(s) BOSE 2.0
Power Supply Seasonic 850watt
Mouse Logitech Master MX
Keyboard Corsair K70 Cherry MX Blue
VR HMD HTC Vive + Oculus Quest 2
Software Windows 10 P
X99 for sure. Great platform that will last you a very long time.
 
D

Deleted member 138597

Guest
Yeah, me too is thinking that X99 is a better option, and value, considering you can get two cores and 12 more PCIe lanes than i7 for just ~$50. Because you wanted to know what I'd want with it, I want more of OCing & productivity than strictly gaming from the platform. Skylake's granular BCLK adjustment, removal of FIVR (fever) and better OCability of memory with it is what attracts me still. But as a matter of fact, and as it had been, SL-E should be the better choice, right?
 
Top