The truth is NOT out there, there are no alien civilisations.

[Ikaruga]

We're actually producing more radio waves today than we ever did, and it's not going to go down any time soon. WiFi is radio. So is cellular. The emerging IoT industry is entirely reliant on radio technologies like WiFi/Bluetooth/NFC. TV stations are beaming shitloads of radio-waves into space (satellites), and there are shitloads of TV stations.

I was talking about, lets say (warning: random number!) 5000 years (note: the Milky way's diameter is approx 160.000 light years).
In 5000 years, we would be still just newborn noobs technology and development wise, but I would be really surprised if we wouldn't find some FTL (sub-space) communication form in the next few hundred years, let alone what we will be able to do in a few millennia... so no, I have to disagree.

 

[the54thvoid]

Pile of crap thread with necessarily uninformed information. Our pea brains can't deal with shit. Given the insane plethora and variety of life on our planet, it seems life is plausible 'everywhere'. Cyanobacteria, life existing in anaerobic environments and those that exist in super hot, black as pitch sub terrananean hells.

Pfft.

 

[TheMailMan78]

This thread needs....

 

[dorsetknob]

Mailman offers to trouserfart flame thrower the thread
Nice

 

[FreedomEclipse]

 

[BiggieShady]

Even if we look at the star in our own galaxy with our most advanced telescopes we can only tell if there are planets in the system. Any energy signature we receive is from the star itself and any emission of a planet orbiting that star are lost to us because it's below noise threshold (please someone who knows more prove me wrong). And he is looking at neighboring galaxies ... yeah right.

 

[AsRock]

More fud that people should not get payed for, fact is we exist so some thing else does too saying any thing other than is plain ignorance.

 

[haswrong]

humans are the only alien "civilisation" in the universe. the other civs are friendly and cooperative and are effectively hiding from human arrogance and hypocracy. let it stay that way.

 

[TheMailMan78]

humans are the only alien "civilisation" in the universe. the other civs are friendly and cooperative and are effectively hiding from human arrogance and hypocracy. let it stay that way.

Maybe they are hiding from us because our women are insane?

 

[natr0n]

Well I have seen ufo many times in my life; some Dbag "astronomer" can't speak for everyone.

 

[haswrong]

Maybe they are hiding from us because our women are insane?

that may be the first half of the reason.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Well I have seen ufo many times in my life; some Dbag "astronomer" can't speak for everyone.

In Florida? I call BS.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

I'm siding with @TheMailMan78 on this one, so you know there's some bullshit about to be debunked.


1) Radio waves is a stupid term. What we aren't looking for is a radio signal, but an emission in the electromagnetic spectrum which cannot be chalked up to natural phenomenon. The electromagnetic spectrum covers everything from infrared (heat) to gamma rays (ultra high frequency emissions).
2) Emission, in general, are spherical. We live in a three dimensional world, and something like a radio tower emits energy as a sphere. That means the area that emitted energy needs to cover is 4(PI)r^2. Doing a little math means that at just one light year away the transmission energy must cover an area of 1.131*10^12 square kilometers. If you had a 10,000 watt initial transmission that's 8.842*10^-9 watts per square kilometer. Think about that for just one moment. To measure 8.842 nano watts you'd need a telescopic array 1 square kilometer big at only one light year away. A 200 light year distance would decrease your signal strength to less than background radiative emissions on a more reasonably sized collector. Seriously, they want to detect something like infrared, which even on a planetary scale would be nothing at multiple light years away? Come on.

3) Both the Fermi Paradox and Drake Equation are cited in the initial post. They, put concisely, answer the likelihood that intelligent life exists in the universe and ask why we haven't seen any of it yet. These things are based off of mathematics, which we are still working on. The actual extent of habitable zones around a star, how many planets exist in these habitable zones, and what the natural progression of species is requires guess work. That's why these are thought experiments about intelligent extraterrestrials, not scientific theories.
4) None of this even begins to address the vast void between our observations and reality. Light might be fast, but the emissions from a star 200 lightyears away have taken that long just to get here. Put that into perspective. In 1815 we had first discovered atomic decay, via alpha particles. Coal mining was our primary power source. 200 years has meant a heck of a lot of difference on this planet.

5) Probability is a crap argument. Go out onto a beach, pick up a sea shell. This shell is a contained universe. It's composed of billions of atoms, arranged by the natural laws of the universe and a large sampling of chaos. What is the likelihood that exact configuration existed? If we assume there are 2 billion atoms, because this is my example, the probability that exists is 1/2000000000!. That's not a statistical anomaly, that's impossible. Despite that, it exists. Arguing mathematical improbability for other life is the same crap.
6) Finally, why does increased thermal emissions mean life? Our civilization has this feature, but what if the intelligent life is trapped below kilometers of frozen material? The way we are currently searching for life, right now, in our own solar system.



Put simply, this is a crap premise built upon crap assumptions. Claiming that a bad assumption means that your ramblings must be truth is an example of garbage in, garbage out. This "scientist" claims that after observing only a small fraction of worlds, and only within a very limited range, that reasonable conclusions can be drawn.

Let's engage in the same hyperbolic fallacy. The temperature today is cooler than the temperature yesterday, so we must be going into an ice age. I can heal from a 1" cut without scarring, so you should be able to slice off my arm and it will regrow. I can imbibe a glass of water, so I should be able to down Lake Michigan in a single gulp. Garbage premises produce garbage results, and this "scientist" needs to enter social sciences if they want their stupidity not to be eviscerated by facts. Science is a cruel mistress, but she is fair. This person doesn't deserve to be called a scientist.

 

[natr0n]

In Florida? I call BS.

Yep a few years ago.There were some white glowing orbs moving around in the sky viewable from my backyard.

When my brother and I saw them they would hide below tree lines in the distance as if they knew were watching.

It was surreal.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Yep a few years ago.There were some white glowing orbs moving around in the sky viewable from my backyard.

When my brother and I saw them they would hide below tree lines in the distance as if they knew were watching.

It was surreal.

You need to stop huffing paint. I was born and raised in FL. My old man was, My grandfather was, my great grandfather was. Not a single "UFO" sighting. In over 150 years of verbal history has my family seen a UFO in FL. Sorry man but you didn't see a UFO. You probably saw a plane landing in the distance.

 

[kn00tcn]

Pile of crap thread with necessarily uninformed information. Our pea brains can't deal with shit. Given the insane plethora and variety of life on our planet, it seems life is plausible 'everywhere'. Cyanobacteria, life existing in anaerobic environments and those that exist in super hot, black as pitch sub terrananean hells.

Pfft.

uh this is about advanced life, not some cells, who says there arent any cells?

 

[natr0n]

You need to stop huffing paint. I was born and raised in FL. My old man was, My grandfather was, my great grandfather was. Not a single "UFO" sighting. In over 150 years of verbal history has my family seen a UFO in FL. Sorry man but you didn't see a UFO. You probably saw a plane landing in the distance.

150 years of moonshine abuse slouched in a corner looking downward

I know what I saw.

 

[manofthem]

re were some white glowing orbs moving around in the sky viewable from my backyard.

When my brother and I saw them they would hide below tree lines in the distance as if they knew were watching.

You'd think they'd have turned their lights off if they didn't want to be seen? Stupid aliens

 

[FordGT90Concept]

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

 

[Luka KLLP]

"We don't know shit" is a good summary I think. Problem is the only sciences where you can be completely sure of something are the ones that are completely theoretical, i.e. NOT physics, chemistry, biology etc. etc. These sort of questions are fun for philosophical discussion, you can't give concrete proof for anything

 

[Mathragh]

"We don't know shit" is a good summary I think. Problem is the only sciences where you can be completely sure of something are the ones that are completely theoretical, i.e. NOT physics, chemistry, biology etc. etc. These sort of questions are fun for philosophical discussion, you can't give concrete proof for anything

You give those "exact" sciences too much credit: People just assume they can be sure of things,... untill they discover otherwise. Remember spontaneous generation, or the aether? Were seen as totally valid until someone discovered something new and realises how wrong we were before. Ofc there can be no other way to learn things, but still.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

You'd think they'd have turned their lights off if they didn't want to be seen? Stupid aliens

Frankly, I'm very concerned about how much energy Earth is emitting into space. I think Hawking wrote about that subject too. Some things to consider:

-The nearest potentially habitable planet in another star system is Tau Ceti e at 11.905 light years away.

-Even if they turned a light on 12 years ago, it would have to be very bright and pointing directly at Earth for us to see it.

-Even if they did turn on a light, it was sufficiently bright, and we happened to be looking directly at it, would we be able to distinguish that artificial light source from the power of the Tau Ceti sun?

-There are a countless number of potential planets out there that support life. When you put it into context of light years versus how long said light was being emitted, our visibility is quite limited unless the civilization is very old.

-Even if we received a signal for a planet, it's easy to forget how alien the signal would be. Remember everything on Earth comes from a common ancestory--this is why humans can form relationships with most mammals, for example. Even though modern man has removed himself from Earth's nature as much as possible, we all live a similar existence. That creates an understanding on a deep level. That's even more true of the different, isolated human cultures. For example, we can learn each other's words by referencing something we both know, like a bird. Now consider this as it relates to radios, telescopes, and other forms of wireless communication. Even if we saw their communications, would we know we were even looking at it? Case in point, and this a far-out-there-theory, what if the "cosmic microwave background" noise isn't from the Big Bang at all but is, in fact, an encrypted or alien message that's constantly being broadcasted? How would we know the difference? How could we even begin to unravel it because it is so alien?

-Just look at humanity now: it's commuting less and less by analog means (you know, talking and listening to each other) and more by digital means. This happened over the period of just a few decades--what happens in 100 years? 1000?

-Our means of bursting transmissions (which end up in space) is inefficient. A species with far more years under their belt likely found a more efficient means to communicate, like through quantum entanglement, so there is no longer wasteful communication into space.

-Why does a species have to live on a planet at all? It is theoretically possible to build a space ship that is 100% sustainable, mining asteroids for raw materials. It's also possible to breed a species for living in a zero gravity environment.

-If there were aliens mining asteroids in the asteroid belt, would we even know?

-Even if a message were sent directly at us from 10+ light years away, would the message be clear by the time it arrived? Parts of it get lost due to hitting mass, parts of it get bent and misdirected because of the effect of mass on light, some of it gets jammed by background noise (e.g. a pulsor), and the list goes on.

I have every right to be a skeptic; we all do. To be certain of anything in this universe is to be ignorant of everything we don't know and understand.

 

[Ikaruga]

Why does a species have to live on a planet at all?

It doesn't need to at all, but scientist look for things they can understand, and they only observed and understand earthlike life so far. As far I'm personally concerned, even a star or a giant cloud can be a lifeform if it's up to me, it has lots of stuff at one place and those can be 1 or 0, that's all you need.

 

[Luka KLLP]

You give those "exact" sciences too much credit: People just assume they can be sure of things,... untill they discover otherwise. Remember spontaneous generation, or the aether? Were seen as totally valid until someone discovered something new and realises how wrong we were before. Ofc there can be no other way to learn things, but still.

You know I said you CAN'T be sure of anything in physics right?

 

[Aquinus]

I'm sure alien civilizations have computers, cell phones, TechPowerup, and chicken salad sandwhiches as we know them. My problem with this thread is that it rides on a whole lot of assumptions that can't be proven and kind of forgets about a large part of physics that we know to be at least mostly true. I think @FordGT90Concept hit this one on the head.

Frankly, I'm very concerned about how much energy Earth is emitting into space. I think Hawking wrote about that subject too. Some things to consider:

-The nearest potentially habitable planet in another star system is Tau Ceti e at 11.905 light years away.

-Even if they turned a light on 12 years ago, it would have to be very bright and pointing directly at Earth for us to see it.

-Even if they did turn on a light, it was sufficiently bright, and we happened to be looking directly at it, would we be able to distinguish that artificial light source from the power of the Tau Ceti sun?

-There are a countless number of potential planets out there that support life. When you put it into context of light years versus how long said light was being emitted, our visibility is quite limited unless the civilization is very old.

-Even if we received a signal for a planet, it's easy to forget how alien the signal would be. Remember everything on Earth comes from a common ancestory--this is why humans can form relationships with most mammals, for example. Even though modern man has removed himself from Earth's nature as much as possible, we all live a similar existence. That creates an understanding on a deep level. That's even more true of the different, isolated human cultures. For example, we can learn each other's words by referencing something we both know, like a bird. Now consider this as it relates to radios, telescopes, and other forms of wireless communication. Even if we saw their communications, would we know we were even looking at it? Case in point, and this a far-out-there-theory, what if the "cosmic microwave background" noise isn't from the Big Bang at all but is, in fact, an encrypted or alien message that's constantly being broadcasted? How would we know the difference? How could we even begin to unravel it because it is so alien?

-Just look at humanity now: it's commuting less and less by analog means (you know, talking and listening to each other) and more by digital means. This happened over the period of just a few decades--what happens in 100 years? 1000?

-Our means of bursting transmissions (which end up in space) is inefficient. A species with far more years under their belt likely found a more efficient means to communicate, like through quantum entanglement, so there is no longer wasteful communication into space.

-Why does a species have to live on a planet at all? It is theoretically possible to build a space ship that is 100% sustainable, mining asteroids for raw materials. It's also possible to breed a species for living in a zero gravity environment.

-If there were aliens mining asteroids in the asteroid belt, would we even know?

-Even if a message were sent directly at us from 10+ light years away, would the message be clear by the time it arrived? Parts of it get lost due to hitting mass, parts of it get bent and misdirected because of the effect of mass on light, some of it gets jammed by background noise (e.g. a pulsor), and the list goes on.

I have every right to be a skeptic; we all do. To be certain of anything in this universe is to be ignorant of everything we don't know and understand.

Why does an alien civilization have to be just like ours? Are we really that self-centered and delusional?