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AMD Throwing the Gauntlet at Intel for releasing biased & unreliable benches.

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cdawall

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Instead of bitching everytime something didn't go theit way amd should just take a leaf out of Intels book and lie.
 
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Interesting.. while I do agree with AMD we all know there is still games and programs people use that could show around 50% performance difference.
 

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the ghist of that story that i get is
AMD gripe that they cannot Beat Intel
Some Tests show intel wipes the floor with AMD and some show they only lose by a smaller margin
( They STILL GET BEAT )
Simple answer ""SELL A PRODUCT that Beats Intel
 
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Even without the benches being stacked in Intel's favour, AMD still loses. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
 
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A quote from the article:
which brings us to an important point: PCMark8 measures the overall performance of a particular system, while SYSmark measures raw CPU performance. If one were to compare two processors directly, which software would be more suitable? Food for thought.
Edit: Actions speak louder than words. If Zen doesn't prove to be a worthy alternative to Intel's offerings, AMD's future surely looks gloomy.
 
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problem about AMD is that they're desperate for a comeback after their rather disappointing sales after the data has been tallied for Q4 2015... and they're not happy with it. So, the only way for them to "throw" their anger is lamenting & pointing fingers at Intel for unrealistic benches claims when they (AMD) are the ones that exaggerate their claims on their rather old, refurbished chips are faster than Intel & Nvidia by a huge, unrealistic margin. With Zen & Polaris coming out, I have a feeling no one wants to help AMD after this brouhaha...
 
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the ghist of that story that i get is
AMD gripe that they cannot Beat Intel
Some Tests show intel wipes the floor with AMD and some show they only lose by a smaller margin
( They STILL GET BEAT )
Simple answer ""SELL A PRODUCT that Beats Intel

And let me deal a hand of poker to you with a marked & stacked deck and see how things go.

Intel has for years been stacking the deck against all competitors period, not just AMD and since the compiler used for well..... Just about everything out there was either made or at least influenced by Intel, the stacking of the deck is there. Any test(s) period will never run as well as it does on an Intel because of it hence the stacking of the deck.

Not saying this is the complete cause since I'm sure AMDs are slower IF things are on an even keel.
AMD has been guilty of shooting themselves in the foot several times over the years and can't seem to get the boat to even run straight, much less on course and that isn't helping either.
Any blame to be had cannot be placed on the proper shoulders since those responsible have already left the building with the suitcases of cash in hand, leaving the mess to those following to cleanup. Maybe something good will come of the next releases they have BUT it's no good if they don't get them out the door into the market AND if they don't do as expected or even close like BD.

All I can say is these test results don't exactly tell the complete story, if you want to rely on these as the "End all that ends all" to it that's OK because it's up to you, but I don't.

If you really want to pay out the ass both ways for your next celeron CPU let Intel become the only game in town period: You Intel fanboys will love giving up your first, second and even third born for the basic CPU package..... Don't even ask about any of the higher models when that times comes.... So just hope that time never does come.
 

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And let me deal a hand of poker to you with a marked & stacked deck and see how things go.

Intel has for years been stacking the deck against all competitors period, not just AMD and since the compiler used for well..... Just about everything out there was either made or at least influenced by Intel, the stacking of the deck is there. Any test(s) period will never run as well as it does on an Intel because of it hence the stacking of the deck.

Not saying this is the complete cause since I'm sure AMDs are slower IF things are on an even keel.
AMD has been guilty of shooting themselves in the foot several times over the years and can't seem to get the boat to even run straight, much less on course and that isn't helping either.
Any blame to be had cannot be placed on the proper shoulders since those responsible have already left the building with the suitcases of cash in hand, leaving the mess to those following to cleanup. Maybe something good will come of the next releases they have BUT it's no good if they don't get them out the door into the market AND if they don't do as expected or even close like BD.

All I can say is these test results don't exactly tell the complete story, if you want to rely on these as the "End all that ends all" to it that's OK because it's up to you, but I don't.

If you really want to pay out the ass both ways for your next celeron CPU let Intel become the only game in town period: You Intel fanboys will love giving up your first, second and even third born for the basic CPU package..... Don't even ask about any of the higher models when that times comes.... So just hope that time never does come.

""DID YOU NOT EVEN CONSIDER" That i may not be an INTEL fan boy i might Be an AMD Fan Boy pleading for AMD to
Simple answer ""SELL A PRODUCT that Beats Intel
 
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Not an fanboy of either... I happen to own both and never accused anyone of being such so please, chill out. :rolleyes:

I was making a point of my own here and I do stand by it. Fanboy or not or whatever I don't care because in the end that won't make any difference between the two or three or however many companies would be a part of it, each one would gladly take your money - It's a matter of you or whoever deciding who gets it.
 
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What I hate more is how Intel compiler treats AMD CPU's even if they support all the required extensions. If AMD CPU runs Intel compiled binaries, it'll automatically be gimped.
 
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What I hate more is how Intel compiler treats AMD CPU's even if they support all the required extensions. If AMD CPU runs Intel compiled binaries, it'll automatically be gimped.

Which happens to be most compilers if not all out there, certainly the industry itself is loaded with them and you can certainly bet the software used for testing was compiled with them.
 
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This is not Intel lying. It is just AMD whining (though with justified reason).

And Intel is not staking the deck either (not any more than ANY marketing weenie does for the product they are barking). It is just good marketing.

And this is not about one being a AMD fanboy or a Intel fanboy either.

Pick any Internet browser and you can find a benchmark or review that puts it on top. Pick a anti-malware program and you can find a test that puts it on top. Pick any pickup truck and you can find a review or award that puts it on top.

All benchmarking programs are synthetic! Even those marketed as representing "real-world" are not really real-world tests - in part because every single one of the estimated 1.5 billion Windows computers in use today becomes unique within the first couple minutes of its first use! Right off the bat, users setup their unique networking, security, backgrounds and Desktop colors, favorite browsers, printers (and other attached hardware), and install their favorite apps. They use the CPUs with their motherboards, their RAM, drives, and their graphics solutions - all of which can affect overall performance.

This is the same marketing propaganda war that happened years ago in the home entertainment industry over amplifier power ratings, distortion levels, frequency responses, and power handling capability of speaker systems. Klipsch claimed their horn based speakers were best because they were the most efficient. Bose claimed their backwards firing speakers were best because they had better "dispersion". AR claimed they were the best because they had the deepest distortion-free bass.

And all were right!

But no one speaker system had the best efficiency, deepest bass, highest highs, widest dispersion, tightest localization, and least distortion too. Plus, everyone's ears are different, as are their tastes in music (a critical criterial when selecting a speaker) - just as every Windows based computer is different and every computer user's needs are different too.

The problem here is AMD and Intel CPUs should not be compared directly in terms of "performance". This is especially pertinent since AMD announced several years ago it will stop competing head-to-head with Intel.

It is us, computer enthusiasts and the IT press (and smart IT marketing/PR weenies at Intel) who keep perpetrating the problem by constantly comparing the two in performance - forcing AMD to defend itself against unfair press reports and consumer perceptions.

I can't find a good analogy. Maybe it is like comparing an office desk chair to a recliner. They are both chairs. Both need to be comfortable. Both are for sitting and need to be reliable and long lasting. But can one claim to be better than the other? Yes! Depending on the test criteria (benchmark program) you use. But is one best for ALL your sitting needs? Of course not. It is hard to fall out of a recliner if you doze off! ;)

AMD makes great CPUs! They are efficient, powerful, generally very competitively priced, and extremely reliable products you can expect to perform for years and years flawlessly. While I just happen to prefer Intel CPUs for my personal builds, I've used AMDs on many builds with no problems, and still have happy clients.

And just another side note - while AMD CPUs tend to be more affordable, when you factor in the price of the motherboard, RAM, graphics solution, case, PSU, drives, keyboard & mouse, speakers, and monitor, the cost difference becomes much less significant, and basically a wash once you spread that cost over the expected 3 - 5 (or longer) years of service you can expect from that computer.

It will REALLY be interesting to see what happens when/if Samsung buys AMD.
 
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Problem here is that people tend to believe Intel is much more powerful in much bigger price which is a steal of their money as with 60% the Intel's price you can have a 90% cpu from AMD compared to it. VFM results are greatly distorted because of biased benchmarks. And because of the majority of people who buy on a badget go for the best value for their money, it hurts AMD very much. Simple eh?
 
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Good points Bill.

I will say Intel back in the day did a brilliant job of advertising - Remember the aliens saying "Peeennntiuuuuummm"?
Intel was the only chipmaker back then doing such, never saw any ads from AMD, Cyrix, IBM, or anyone else involved with chipmaking at the time.

They used this to establish the brand name and product line in the same way you'd think of many common products by the same name - And it worked.
 
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Did anyone read the article? I ask because the argument seems to be that no matter what Intel will win. The article itself draws no conclusion as such, it only states relative performance varies by test type and assumptions.

What we're seeing instead is that Intel vs. AMD, in a laptop, is relatively close in some synthetic benchmarks and different in other synthetics. The test that supposedly is more relevant to CPUs demonstrates a bigger difference than those tests which test multiple aspects of the system.


What has been proven is that in every day tasks your CPU is less of a factor than other things in your system. Maybe the processor is 10% (figures here are round numbers, not real representations) slower, but as it only accounts for 10% of the total time required to do a task (call data, import it, manipulate it, write new data, repeat) so your actual difference in performance is 6%.

Isn't this an obvious conclusion? Intel tests with a CPU tester so that their superior processing is shown. AMD wants to test with a whole system test because even if their CPU is slower the time loss is sponged up by less expedient procedures.
 

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Did anyone read the article? I ask because the argument seems to be that no matter what Intel will win. The article itself draws no conclusion as such, it only states relative performance varies by test type and assumptions.

What we're seeing instead is that Intel vs. AMD, in a laptop, is relatively close in some synthetic benchmarks and different in other synthetics. The test that supposedly is more relevant to CPUs demonstrates a bigger difference than those tests which test multiple aspects of the system.


What has been proven is that in every day tasks your CPU is less of a factor than other things in your system. Maybe the processor is 10% (figures here are round numbers, not real representations) slower, but as it only accounts for 10% of the total time required to do a task (call data, import it, manipulate it, write new data, repeat) so your actual difference in performance is 6%.

Isn't this an obvious conclusion? Intel tests with a CPU tester so that their superior processing is shown. AMD wants to test with a whole system test because even if their CPU is slower the time loss is sponged up by less expedient procedures.

The whole point is as you put it in the last part of your post.
You can sum it up in several ways with each one giving a different picture of how things are or if you'd like, a "Spin" on things.

Intel wants to "Prove" it's the best with CPU alone testing.
AMD wants to prove it's a good product by letting tests involving all aspects of the system tell the tale.

In reality both as said are right and wrong.
It's a matter of perception to who's looking at the results as presented with the hope your perception will agree with what they want you to see - Based on who's doing the hoping of course. :oops:
 

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At the end of the day if you took the stickers off of both the FX-8800P and i5 5200u/6200u no one would be able to see the difference in normal system unit. I think that is all AMD is getting at. Sysmark shows something that should be literally half as fast...
 
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I on the other hand am fan of both.
Intel for CPUs and AMD for GPUs.
I look at this with another perspective.

I give Intel the award for being the best CPU building company now.
I give Nvidia the award for best GPU building company now.

BUT, i give the BEST OVERALL AWARD for AMD for making both quite well and most of all give BEST COMPETITOR AWARD to AMD for competiting in both CPU and GPU market and putting a hard time to Intel and Nvidia on the both markets.

Imagine if Intel made their own consumers GPUs and Nvidia making their own comsumers CPU.

If we play it like that, equaly, AMD will kick both asses to Intel and Nvidia, since deviding their power of building in 2 fronts is not something one company does with ease.
 

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So basically what AMD is saying is that we shouldn't really judge the performance of processors based on "raw performance" because that gives too much of a "bias" towards processors with more performance, instead we should just say all processor are good enough for everyday tasks and leave it at that.

Got it. It's completely stupid, but sure, whatever...

Oh, and lets not forget that AMD isn't guilt free of cherry picking benchmarks to show their products are "better" than their rivals. So this is really just the pot calling the kettle black.
 
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Haha "throwing the gauntlet" I wouldn't be quite so dramatic :p and everyone saying "well then AMD should make a better performing chip than intel...." aren't getting the point, Intel is many more times bigger than AMD, they have the better performing chips there is no need for under handed techniques at all, anyone would think they don't any competition.... :rolleyes::laugh:
 

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So basically what AMD is saying is that we shouldn't really judge the performance of processors based on "raw performance" because that gives too much of a "bias" towards processors with more performance, instead we should just say all processor are good enough for everyday tasks and leave it at that.

Got it. It's completely stupid, but sure, whatever...

Except that in raw CPU performance the 8800P isn't really behind the i5's. Depends on the programs and configured TDP of the CPU.
 

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Display(s) Acer Nitro VG280K 4K 28"
Case Fractal Design Define S
Audio Device(s) Onboard is good enough for me
Power Supply eVGA SuperNOVA 1000w G3
Software Windows 10 Pro x64
Except that in raw CPU performance the 8800P isn't really behind the i5's. Depends on the programs and configured TDP of the CPU.

Obviously it is since that is exactly what Sysmark measures. It measure raw cpu power, period. PCMark gives a better idea of real-world use, but if you are just comparing rare compute power, the i5 is way ahead.

But Intel shouldn't really be penalized because they created a more powerful processor with a lot more number crunching power just because that extra power isn't likely to show itself in basic computer tasks because those tasks don't use the extra CPU power.

If AMD wants to say Intel and Sysmark is biased then they have to show raw CPU compute based benchmarks that show Sysmark is way off on CPU power. Not use PCMark, which they admit doesn't really use the CPU that much. Do some CPU video encoding benchmarks, some compression benchmarks, some music encoding benchmarks. Those types of benchmarks rely on the CPU power, and will use every bit of CPU power available, and show the real difference in compute power between the two CPUs.

This "look Microsoft Office isn't any faster on Intel, so Sysmark is biased" shit isn't going to fly.
 
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