• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD "Strix Point" Zen 5 Monolithic Silicon has a 12-core CPU?

btarunr

Editor & Senior Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
47,164 (7.57/day)
Location
Hyderabad, India
System Name RBMK-1000
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700G
Motherboard ASUS ROG Strix B450-E Gaming
Cooling DeepCool Gammax L240 V2
Memory 2x 8GB G.Skill Sniper X
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER GameRock
Storage Western Digital Black NVMe 512GB
Display(s) BenQ 1440p 60 Hz 27-inch
Case Corsair Carbide 100R
Audio Device(s) ASUS SupremeFX S1220A
Power Supply Cooler Master MWE Gold 650W
Mouse ASUS ROG Strix Impact
Keyboard Gamdias Hermes E2
Software Windows 11 Pro
It looks like the monolithic silicon that succeeds "Phoenix," codenamed "Strix Point," will finally introduce an increase in CPU core counts for the thin-and-light and ultraportable mobile platforms. "Strix Point" is codename for the next-generation APU die being developed at AMD, which, according to a leaked MilkyWay@Home benchmark result, comes with a 12-core/24-thread CPU.

The silicon is identified by MilkyWay@Home with the OPN "AMD Eng Sample: 100-000000994-03_N," and CPU identification string "AuthenticAMD Family 26 Model 32 Stepping 0 -> B20F00." The "Strix Point" CPU could be the second time AMD has increased CPU core-counts per CCX. From "Zen 3" onward, the company increased the cores per CCX from 4 to 8, allowing a single "Zen 3" CCX on the "Cezanne" monolithic silicon to come with 8 cores. It's highly likely that with "Zen 5," the company is increasing the cores/CCX to 12, and that "Strix Point" has one of these CCXs.



"Strix Point" processors will be branded under the Ryzen 8000 series. Besides the 12-core Zen 5 CPU, it is expected to feature an updated iGPU based on the RDNA3 Gen 2 graphics architecture, and an upgraded memory interface, with support for higher DDR5 and LPDDR5 memory speeds. It's likely that the AMD Radiance Display Engine finds its way to the silicon, as well as an updated XDNA Ryzen AI accelerator. AMD is expected to debut Zen 5 in 2024, with "Strix Point" squaring off against Intel's Core "Meteor Lake" processors.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
5,536 (0.96/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k -> 12600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0 -> Gigabyte Z690 Auros Elite DDR4
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120 -> Custom Watercoolingloop
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz -> Crucial (8x2) 16gb 3600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480 -> RX7800XT
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb -> 2tb MVMe SSD
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television) -> Dell S3220DGF
Case antec 600 -> Thermaltake Tenor HTCP case
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
asus ROG Strix point
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
1,750 (0.61/day)
Are the 16 cores in a Zen 4c chiplet contained within one CCX?
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
2,699 (0.55/day)
Location
Greece
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W
Motherboard MSI B550 Tomahawk
Cooling ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA
Memory 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16
Video Card(s) Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB
Storage Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB
Display(s) AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz
Case SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK
Audio Device(s) Realtek 7.1 onboard
Power Supply Seasonic Core GC 500W
Mouse Sharkoon SHARK Force Black
Keyboard Trust GXT280
Software Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux
My calculated guess is that all APUs will have only Zen5c cores.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
534 (0.23/day)
Are the 16 cores in a Zen 4c chiplet contained within one CCX?
No, they are split into two CCX. There is no link between the CCXs in a CCD so they have to go through the InfinityFabric on the IO die in order to talk to each other.
You can read a good analysis of Zen 4c at semianalysis.com (it's half-paywalled, but the free part is still enlightening).

My calculated guess is that all APUs will have only Zen5c cores.
In my opinion, I don't think they can afford to lose the absolute performance of "full" cores. A hybrid 5+5c would make more sense than going all 5c, especially on higher end parts like the HX series.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
IIRC these aren't likely to be 12 full "P-cores" to use Intel's existing nomenclature.

AMD have said Zen5 will include models with non heterogenous "big.LITTLE" architecture like Alder Lake introduced for Intel. Strix Point is rumoured to be 4 full Zen5 cores and 8 Zen5c cores. There's not a lot of concrete info on Zen5c yet, but we're expecting a Zen4c variant this generation at some point which should give us a better idea of how Zen5c is likely to look.

Since these monolithic designs are primarily for laptops, the inclusion of more, smaller Zen5c "e-cores" for lower power draw is the obvious guess for a 12-core mobile part. The hefty, higher TDP desktop-replacement and high-end gaming laptops will likely just use the same MCM parts as desktops (e.g, Dragon Range Ryzen 7045-series) which go up to 16 Zen4 cores across two chiplets as usual.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
IIRC these aren't likely to be 12 full "P-cores" to use Intel's existing nomenclature.

AMD have said Zen5 will include models with non heterogenous "big.LITTLE" architecture like Alder Lake introduced for Intel. Strix Point is rumoured to be 4 full Zen5 cores and 8 Zen5c cores. There's not a lot of concrete info on Zen5c yet, but we're expecting a Zen4c variant this generation at some point which should give us a better idea of how Zen5c is likely to look.

Since these monolithic designs are primarily for laptops, the inclusion of more, smaller Zen5c "e-cores" for lower power draw is the obvious guess for a 12-core mobile part. The hefty, higher TDP desktop-replacement and high-end gaming laptops will likely just use the same MCM parts as desktops (e.g, Dragon Range Ryzen 7045-series) which go up to 16 Zen4 cores across two chiplets as usual.
Should be heterogeneous or non homogeneous, no?

Apart from that, didn't an AMD spokesperson say they have no interest in building a P/E-core a la Intel, or did that only apply to desktop?
 
Joined
Mar 6, 2018
Messages
128 (0.05/day)
Should be heterogeneous or non homogeneous, no?

Apart from that, didn't an AMD spokesperson say they have no interest in building a P/E-core a la Intel, or did that only apply to desktop?

The difference between Zen 4 and Zen 4c is the clock speed target. By lowering the clock speed target from 5GHz+ to sub 4 GHz, AMD can increase real transistor density dramatically. There is virtually no IPC difference if the L3 cache size is the same.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
The difference between Zen 4 and Zen 4c is the clock speed target. By lowering the clock speed target from 5GHz+ to sub 4 GHz, AMD can increase real transistor density dramatically. There is virtually no IPC difference if the L3 cache size is the same.
That's the point. Zen 4c has half the L3 cache of Zen 4, that's what makes it smaller. Clock speeds are then to be defined by binning, core count and power target.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Messages
2,062 (0.74/day)
Location
Tanagra
System Name Budget Box
Processor Xeon E5-2667v2
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Pro
Cooling Some cheap tower cooler, I dunno
Memory 32GB 1866-DDR3 ECC
Video Card(s) XFX RX 5600XT
Storage WD NVME 1GB
Display(s) ASUS Pro Art 27"
Case Antec P7 Neo
No, they are split into two CCX. There is no link between the CCXs in a CCD so they have to go through the InfinityFabric on the IO die in order to talk to each other.
You can read a good analysis of Zen 4c at semianalysis.com (it's half-paywalled, but the free part is still enlightening).


In my opinion, I don't think they can afford to lose the absolute performance of "full" cores. A hybrid 5+5c would make more sense than going all 5c, especially on higher end parts like the HX series.
Considering the space saving nature of Z4C, I'd suspect we'd see either 4R+8C or 8R+4C. This is a monolith, so really the possibilities are all over the place. Considering Z4C is a full Ryzen core with less cache, it's quite possible they could do 4R+8C and performance would probably be similar in most cases.
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
2,305 (1.51/day)
Location
Bulgaria
I didn't see any indication that will have user experience with Zen "c" cores for home desktop PC's soon.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
I didn't see any indication that will have user experience with Zen "c" cores for home desktop PC's soon.
Zen 4c doesn't make much sense for desktop Ryzen. It is made to cram more cores while reducing L3 cache. And we all know the crown of AMD's desktop line are the X3D SKUs, with their EXTRA cache.
They could however make a case for workstations. Use Zen 4c for TR 7000, Zen 4 for TR Pro 7000 (or the other way around, whichever benefits more from cores than cache).
 

Count von Schwalbe

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
3,011 (2.78/day)
Location
Knoxville, TN, USA
System Name Work Computer | Unfinished Computer
Processor Core i7-6700 | Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Dell Q170 | Gigabyte Aorus Elite Wi-Fi
Cooling A fan? | Truly Custom Loop
Memory 4x4GB Crucial 2133 C17 | 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 C26
Video Card(s) Dell Radeon R7 450 | RTX 2080 Ti FE
Storage Crucial BX500 2TB | TBD
Display(s) 3x LG QHD 32" GSM5B96 | TBD
Case Dell | Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply Dell TFX Non-standard | EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse| TBD
Zen 4c doesn't make much sense for desktop Ryzen. It is made to cram more cores while reducing L3 cache. And we all know the crown of AMD's desktop line are the X3D SKUs, with their EXTRA cache.
They could however make a case for workstations. Use Zen 4c for TR 7000, Zen 4 for TR Pro 7000 (or the other way around, whichever benefits more from cores than cache).
Ryzen 3/Athlon?

Budget (less cache) -> mainstream (cache) -> halo (more cache)
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
2,305 (1.51/day)
Location
Bulgaria
Actually yes, for office tasks in companies it makes sense. Some super cheap and low power Athlons, with 4 "c" cores and 8 threads and very light integrated graphics. To replace obsolete Athlon 3000G.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
Ryzen 3/Athlon?

Budget (less cache) -> mainstream (cache) -> halo (more cache)
Actually, for an Athlon it makes a lot of sense. If memory doesn't fail me K10 Phenoms and Athlons were separated similarly.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
So the c-cores are cache-starved and lower-clocked, but otherwise full cores?

I'm not sure it'll matter too much either way, the end result is still going to be worse performance unless the OS scheduler puts the right processes on the right cores, so we're still in the situation of relying on the software to deal with the non-homogenous cores (yes, I did mean non-homogenous earlier)
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
So the c-cores are cache-starved and lower-clocked, but otherwise full cores?

I'm not sure it'll matter too much either way, the end result is still going to be worse performance unless the OS scheduler puts the right processes on the right cores, so we're still in the situation of relying on the software to deal with the non-homogenous cores (yes, I did mean non-homogenous earlier)
Cache starved, yes. Lower clocked, not necessarily.
For a core-crammed Bergamo Epyc that's for sure. But as confabulated with @Count von Schwalbe an Athlon (2C/4T or 4C/4T) or a Ryzen 3 (4C/8T or 6C/6T) don't need to have lower clocks, unless they are willingly targeting lower power targets or are badly binned (or not wanting to cannibalize higher SKUs).

Then again, we do have the Cezanne R5 5500X, which has half the L3 cache of the Vermeer brethren.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1,600 (1.49/day)
Location
Mississauga, Canada
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WiFi 6)
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S (two fans)
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Reference Vega 64
Storage Intel 665p 1TB, WD Black SN850X 2TB, Crucial MX300 1TB SATA, Samsung 830 256 GB SATA
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG27, and Samsung S23A700
Case Fractal Design R5
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TITANIUM 850W
Mouse Logitech
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Windows 11 Pro, and Ubuntu 20.04
That's the point. Zen 4c has half the L3 cache of Zen 4, that's what makes it smaller. Clock speeds are then to be defined by binning, core count and power target.
No, it isn't just the cache. Each Zen 4c core sans the L2 is nearly half the size of a Zen 4 core. The Zen 4c CCD has more cache than a Zen 4 CCD (16 MB L2 + 32 MB L3) than a regular Zen 4 CCD and it packs twice the cores. Despite that, it's less than 10% larger than the Zen 4 CCD: 72.7 vs 66.3 mm^2. @ncrs linked to an analysis by SemiAnalysis that goes over all this in considerable detail.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
No, it isn't just the cache. Each Zen 4c core sans the L2 is nearly half the size of a Zen 4 core. The Zen 4c CCD has more cache than a Zen 4 CCD (16 MB L2 + 32 MB L3) than a regular Zen 4 CCD and it packs twice the cores. Despite that, it's less than 10% larger than the Zen 4 CCD: 72.7 vs 66.3 mm^2. @ncrs linked to an analysis by SemiAnalysis that goes over all this in considerable detail.
Nice article, didn't read it first. Didn't know AMD managed to somehow make the logic more compact alongside the L3 cut to make it smaller, so I stand corrected. If this impacts in clock limitations for lower core counts in more lenient packages (let's say a 6-core Ryzen, instead of a 128-core Epyc) it remains to be seen.

But I stand my point for the core/cache equation.
A Z4c CCD has more cache than a Z4 due to being 2 CCX per CCD vs 1, alright. They both have 8 cores/CCX, and while L1 and L2 are the same for each Z4 and Z4c core, shared L3 is halved per Z4c CCX but it has two of them for each CCD so it evens (although it incurs a latency penalty, like Zen 2 and older).
But then we wouldn't be comparing them at the same core count. If we were hypothetically to get both Z4 and Z4c to the exact same core count, Z4c by design has less shared L3 while having the same L1 and L2, CCX's and CCD's notwithstanding.
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1,600 (1.49/day)
Location
Mississauga, Canada
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WiFi 6)
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S (two fans)
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Reference Vega 64
Storage Intel 665p 1TB, WD Black SN850X 2TB, Crucial MX300 1TB SATA, Samsung 830 256 GB SATA
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG27, and Samsung S23A700
Case Fractal Design R5
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TITANIUM 850W
Mouse Logitech
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Windows 11 Pro, and Ubuntu 20.04
Nice article, didn't read it first. Didn't know AMD managed to somehow make the logic more compact alongside the L3 cut to make it smaller, so I stand corrected. If this impacts in clock limitations for lower core counts in more lenient packages (let's say a 6-core Ryzen, instead of a 128-core Epyc) it remains to be seen.

But I stand my point for the core/cache equation.
A Z4c CCD has more cache than a Z4 due to being 2 CCX per CCD vs 1, alright. They both have 8 cores/CCX, and while L1 and L2 are the same for each Z4 and Z4c core, shared L3 is halved per Z4c CCX but it has two of them for each CCD so it evens (although it incurs a latency penalty, like Zen 2 and older).
But then we wouldn't be comparing them at the same core count. If we were hypothetically to get both Z4 and Z4c to the exact same core count, Z4c by design has less shared L3 while having the same L1 and L2, CCX's and CCD's notwithstanding.
I agree that decreasing the L3 size is an important contributor to the small size of the Zen 4c CCD. However, they did a lot of work all around the core to increase density. As far as clock speeds in low core count SKUs are concerned, I expect this to clock significantly less than Zen 4. Denser designs typically trade off clock speed for area.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
I agree that decreasing the L3 size is an important contributor to the small size of the Zen 4c CCD. However, they did a lot of work all around the core to increase density. As far as clock speeds in low core count SKUs are concerned, I expect this to clock significantly less than Zen 4. Denser designs typically trade off clock speed for area.
Which would pose a bit of problem for marketing a possible Zen 4c Ryzen 3 (it's still Ryzen so it should be fast, right?). For an Athlon, though? It would be amazing for any office pc.

Off-topic: it makes me sad everytime I see Athlon relegated to the boring, slower, lesser CPU. Oh, the memories...
 

Count von Schwalbe

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
3,011 (2.78/day)
Location
Knoxville, TN, USA
System Name Work Computer | Unfinished Computer
Processor Core i7-6700 | Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Dell Q170 | Gigabyte Aorus Elite Wi-Fi
Cooling A fan? | Truly Custom Loop
Memory 4x4GB Crucial 2133 C17 | 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 C26
Video Card(s) Dell Radeon R7 450 | RTX 2080 Ti FE
Storage Crucial BX500 2TB | TBD
Display(s) 3x LG QHD 32" GSM5B96 | TBD
Case Dell | Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply Dell TFX Non-standard | EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse| TBD
If this impacts in clock limitations for lower core counts in more lenient packages (let's say a 6-core Ryzen, instead of a 128-core Epyc) it remains to be seen.
When not power-limited, yes clocks will be less.

It should clock higher when the W/core is low, such as in high core count CPUs and laptops.


Off-topic: it makes me sad everytime I see Athlon relegated to the boring, slower, lesser CPU. Oh, the memories...
And Pentium/Celeron?
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2021
Messages
1,600 (1.49/day)
Location
Mississauga, Canada
Processor Ryzen 7 5700X
Motherboard ASUS TUF Gaming X570-PRO (WiFi 6)
Cooling Noctua NH-C14S (two fans)
Memory 2x16GB DDR4 3200
Video Card(s) Reference Vega 64
Storage Intel 665p 1TB, WD Black SN850X 2TB, Crucial MX300 1TB SATA, Samsung 830 256 GB SATA
Display(s) Nixeus NX-EDG27, and Samsung S23A700
Case Fractal Design R5
Power Supply Seasonic PRIME TITANIUM 850W
Mouse Logitech
VR HMD Oculus Rift
Software Windows 11 Pro, and Ubuntu 20.04
Which would pose a bit of problem for marketing a possible Zen 4c Ryzen 3 (it's still Ryzen so it should be fast, right?). For an Athlon, though? It would be amazing for any office pc.

Off-topic: it makes me sad everytime I see Athlon relegated to the boring, slower, lesser CPU. Oh, the memories...
It would be fine for augmenting the multithreaded prowess of higher core count SKUs, but would be unsuited to core counts lower than 8.

I agree: the Athlon was the original "big damn hero" for AMD and the rest of the PC world. I also have similar thoughts when I see the Pentium name used for low performance SKUs. They should have kept Celeron for that use, and retired the Pentium brand.
 
Joined
Sep 26, 2022
Messages
2,009 (2.62/day)
Location
Brazil
System Name G-Station 1.17 FINAL
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
Motherboard Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 WiFi
Cooling DeepCool AK620 Digital
Memory Asgard Bragi DDR4-3600CL14 2x16GB
Video Card(s) Sapphire PULSE RX 7900 XTX
Storage 240GB Samsung 840 Evo, 1TB Asgard AN2, 2TB Hiksemi FUTURE-LITE, 320GB+1TB 7200RPM HDD
Display(s) Samsung 34" Odyssey OLED G8
Case Thermaltake Level 20 MT
Audio Device(s) Astro A40 TR + MixAmp
Power Supply Cougar GEX X2 1000W
Mouse Razer Viper Ultimate
Keyboard Razer Huntsman Elite (Red)
Software Windows 11 Pro
And Pentium/Celeron?
I agree: the Athlon was the original "big damn hero" for AMD and the rest of the PC world. I also have similar thoughts when I see the Pentium name used for low performance SKUs. They should have kept Celeron for that use, and retired the Pentium brand.
As there's no Athlon newer than the Picasso 3150GE, better case scenario it's only dormant unlike Pentiums and Celerons (not that I liked the latter - and Semprons - much) which are officially RIP.
 

Count von Schwalbe

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 15, 2021
Messages
3,011 (2.78/day)
Location
Knoxville, TN, USA
System Name Work Computer | Unfinished Computer
Processor Core i7-6700 | Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard Dell Q170 | Gigabyte Aorus Elite Wi-Fi
Cooling A fan? | Truly Custom Loop
Memory 4x4GB Crucial 2133 C17 | 4x8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB 3600 C26
Video Card(s) Dell Radeon R7 450 | RTX 2080 Ti FE
Storage Crucial BX500 2TB | TBD
Display(s) 3x LG QHD 32" GSM5B96 | TBD
Case Dell | Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply Dell TFX Non-standard | EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse| TBD
It would be fine for augmenting the multithreaded prowess of higher core count SKUs, but would be unsuited to core counts lower than 8.
Reduced prices as the die area is much much lower. 4-core CPUs don't make any sense as TSMC N5 is pretty mature, so there is not much reason to disable two more working cores and reduce profit margins.

Now a 6-core Zen 4c CCD would make sense, and disabled units for Athlons.
 
Top