Leaked Flyer Hints at Possible AMD Ryzen 9000 Series Powered by Zen 5

[fevgatos]

As a gamer only, 8800x3d or 9900x3d is still going to be king for gamers, and 7800x3d still remains king from all that I can see, but for everyone else though, yeah Intel is better.

The 7800x 3d is great out of the box, but if you start playing with memory tuning and stuff, it's nowhere near Intel's best. It's competing with a 12700k / 12900k.

What are you talking about?

That they don't care about desktops. They are throwing the leftovers. It's been happening for the last couple of gens, all the monolithic dies are going to the mobile and desktop gets the 40w idle power draw chiplets.

I have both a mobile and a desktop zen 3, the difference in power draw between them on simple stuff like browsing is insane. Mobile peaks at 10w, desktop goes over 30

 

[AusWolf]

That they don't care about desktops. They are throwing the leftovers. It's been happening for the last couple of gens, all the monolithic dies are going to the mobile and desktop gets the 40w idle power draw chiplets.

I have both a mobile and a desktop zen 3, the difference in power draw between them on simple stuff like browsing is insane. Mobile peaks at 10w, desktop goes over 30

If desktop chiplets are leftovers, then what are they left over from?

By the way, that idle power is more like 20 W than 40, and gaming power on a 7800X3D is around 50 W instead of 263485761465 W on a Core i9, but I'm sure you don't care.

 

[Tomorrow]

The 7800x 3d is great out of the box, but if you start playing with memory tuning and stuff, it's nowhere near Intel's best. It's competing with a 12700k / 12900k.

You mean Intel's memory tuning where someone who has a lot of experience like Buildzoid cant get 8000 stable on Intel?
Also these higher speeds dont really help the performance for Intel and not even for AMD themselves.

Imho most people want a great out of the box experience, not tinker hours with timings. Also since pretty much all CPU's are already pushed to the limit from the factory there no big OC headroom like there used to be with Intel CPU's.

 

[fevgatos]

If desktop chiplets are leftovers, then what are they left over from?

By the way, that idle power is more like 20 W than 40, but I'm sure you don't care.

Make it accurately report power draw and surf the web. Peak power will be over 30. Mobile is less than 10. Surely a 3x power draw is important, no?

 

[AusWolf]

You mean Intel's memory tuning where someone who has a lot of experience like Buildzoid cant get 8000 stable on Intel?
Also these higher speeds dont really help the performance for Intel and not even for AMD themselves.

Imho most people want a great out of the box experience, not tinker hours with timings. Also since pretty much all CPU's are already pushed to the limit from the factory there no big OC headroom like there used to be with Intel CPU's.

Exactly! Arguing about which manufacturer gets the higher RAM frequencies or the lowest timings is childish.

 

[fevgatos]

You mean Intel's memory tuning where someone who has a lot of experience like Buildzoid cant get 8000 stable on Intel?
Also these higher speeds dont really help the performance for Intel and not even for AMD themselves.

Imho most people want a great out of the box experience, not tinker hours with timings. Also since pretty much all CPU's are already pushed to the limit from the factory there no big OC headroom like there used to be with Intel CPU's.

You don't need 8000, frequency isn't even important. If someone has a tuned 3d we can test it against my tuned STOCK 12900k. You'll be surprised

 

[AusWolf]

Make it accurately report power draw and surf the web. Peak power will be over 30. Mobile is less than 10. Surely a 3x power draw is important, no?

Stop bickering about a couple of Watts, and just answer the question. Or not, and move on.

 

[fevgatos]

a 7800X3D is around 50 W instead of 263485761465 W on a Core i9, but I'm sure you don't care.

It's also 50w on an core i9 unless you wanna run it out of the box. As ive said, you'll be impressed

Stop bickering about a couple of Watts, and just answer the question. Or not, and move on.

I did answer the question. When desktop needs 3 times the power of mobile for same performance don't you think amd doesn't really care about desktop? Why wouldn't they ship the mobile parts to desktop? I know I'd buy one.

 

[AusWolf]

It's also 50w on an core i9 unless you wanna run it out of the box. As ive said, you'll be impressed

You can tune every modern CPU to be way more efficient than it is out of the box. It's a fact. I'm not impressed.

I did answer the question. When desktop needs 3 times the power of mobile for same performance don't you think amd doesn't really care about desktop? Why wouldn't they ship the mobile parts to desktop? I know I'd buy one.

You did not. You said AMD desktop gets leftovers. What is Zen 4 left over from?

 

[fevgatos]

You can tune every modern CPU to be way more efficient than it is out of the box. It's a fact. I'm not impressed.

Yes and no. If the 3d draws 50w in games as you argued, tuning won't do much for you will it? How low can you take it? With a 14900k I went from 200w to 110w while boosting performance by about 20%. In fact I have some videos I can share but it's offtopic here.

You did not. You said AMD desktop gets leftovers. What is Zen 4 left over from?

Zen 4 desktop is whatever wasn't good enough for mobile or server. Kinda obvious

 

[bug]

I did answer the question. When desktop needs 3 times the power of mobile for same performance don't you think amd doesn't really care about desktop? Why wouldn't they ship the mobile parts to desktop? I know I'd buy one.

Lisa Su: How are our desktop CPUs doing?
AMD Engineer: Fine, but Intel still does a little better in gaming.
Lisa Su: Well then, make CPU that will do better than Intel in gaming, throw in some cache or whatever it takes. That will show the world we really don't give a rat's behind about desktops.

 

[AusWolf]

Yes and no. If the 3d draws 50w in games as you argued, tuning won't do much for you will it? How low can you take it? With a 14900k I went from 200w to 110w while boosting performance by about 20%. In fact I have some videos I can share but it's offtopic here.

If my CPU sips 50 W in games, then why would I want to take it lower? If I wanted to, I'm sure I could, though. But there's no point!

If halving your 14900K's power consumption makes you happier, then good for you. But it doesn't take away from other people's experience who like to have the good stuff out of the box.

Zen 4 desktop is whatever wasn't good enough for mobile or server. Kinda obvious

Because Zen 4 came out for mobile first, and X3D is extremely useful for servers... obviously...

 

[fevgatos]

If my CPU sips 50 W in games, then why would I want to take it lower?

Exactly? How much do you actually think a 14900k draws at 4k with a 4090? Pick a game and I can test it for you.

If halving your 14900K's power consumption makes you happier, then good for you. But it doesn't take away from other people's experience who like to have the good stuff out of the box.

And again that is exactly what I said, that out of the box the 3d is better for games. But if you like / want tuning, it's not as fast as Intel's latest. That's something that we can easily test if you like to.

 

[Tomorrow]

I have both a mobile and a desktop zen 3, the difference in power draw between them on simple stuff like browsing is insane. Mobile peaks at 10w, desktop goes over 30

That is by design. Chiplets have higher idle draw due to cross communication across the silicon compared to monolithic dies.

You don't need 8000, frequency isn't even important. If someone has a tuned 3d we can test it against my tuned STOCK 12900k. You'll be surprised

Test in what exactly?

Because X3D wins most games no matter how much your 12900K is tuned. Obviously it loses in heavily multi-threaded stuff that can utilize more than 16 threads but that's acceptable tradeoff for gamers.

Yes and no. If the 3d draws 50w in games as you argued, tuning won't do much for you will it? How low can you take it? With a 14900k I went from 200w to 110w while boosting performance by about 20%. In fact I have some videos I can share but it's off-topic here.

So what? I doesn't matter how much you tune 14900K. It will never be able to match perf per W of 7800X3D that consumes below 90W out of the box.

Zen 4 desktop is whatever wasn't good enough for mobile or server. Kinda obvious

Server has totally different requirements for chiplets than desktop. There density and energy efficiency are king. On desktop clock speeds and outright performance is what matters. Also you say like sharing chiplets is somehow bad. Please - show me a chiplet that EPYC uses that performs better than the one in 7800X3D or 7950X3D. You might find one that is denser ie more cores or one that is more efficient but that's about it. Sharing chiplets is economical.

You want to be mad at someone be mad at Nvidia who dont even make x100 chips for desktop anymore and even their top of the line AD102 is not fully enabled, yet they ask a lot of money for it regardless. Their fully enabled chips all go into workstation and server products.

 

[AusWolf]

Exactly? How much do you actually think a 14900k draws at 4k with a 4090? Pick a game and I can test it for you.

I don't care - that's not the point of argument here.

The point is that just because you don't like AMD, it doesn't mean that Ryzen desktop is generally bad, or a leftover design from AMD's almost nonexistent laptop range (which doesn't make sense).

And again that is exactly what I said, that out of the box the 3d is better for games.

Not bad for some leftovers, huh?

 

[fevgatos]

That is by design. Chiplets have higher idle draw due to cross communication across the silicon compared to monolithic dies.

It's not "by design". Are you saying amd wanted to design a cpu that draws more power? Of course not, it's that they are saving the monolithic parts for mobile

Test in what exactly?

Because X3D wins most games no matter how much your 12900K is tuned. Obviously it loses in heavily multi-threaded stuff that can utilize more than 16 threads but that's acceptable tradeoff for

I'm talking specifically about games.

So what? I doesn't matter how much you tune 14900K. It will never be able to match perf per W of 7800X3D that consumes below 90W out of the box.

Great, wanna test it?

I don't care - that's not the point of argument here.

The point is that just because you don't like AMD, it doesn't mean that Ryzen desktop is generally bad, or a leftover design from AMD's almost nonexistent laptop range (which doesn't make sense).


Not bad for some leftovers, huh?

If you don't care then why are you even quoting me? I said intel wins in desktop which is just a fact. They have the fastest mt cpu, fastest st cpu, fastest gaming cpu and they don't draw a billion wats doing simple stuff like browsing the web.

 

[AusWolf]

If you don't care then why are you even quoting me?

I'm quoting you because you brought it up. You're deflecting the topic to suit your own narrative, as always.

I said intel wins in desktop which is just a fact. They have the fastest mt cpu, fastest st cpu, fastest gaming cpu and they don't draw a billion wats doing simple stuff like browsing the web.

That's just a load of ****.
1. Ryzen doesn't draw a billion Watts doing simple stuff, either. It only draws more at idle.
2. If you extrapolate the below info to a 50-Watt 14900K (by averaging the 65 and 35 W values), then you get 74.35% of the performance compared to stock, or 73.46% of the 7800X3D at the same power.

 

[fevgatos]

I'm quoting you because you brought it up. You're deflecting the topic to suit your own narrative, as always.


That's just a load of ****.
1. Ryzen doesn't draw a billion Watts doing simple stuff, either. It only draws more at idle.
2.
View attachment 320971

Okay, just browse the web watch a YouTube video and tell me the power draw. Bet it's 3-4 times more than zen mobile and Intel desktop....

 

[AusWolf]

Okay, just browse the web watch a YouTube video and tell me the power draw. Bet it's 3-4 times more than zen mobile and Intel desktop....

Probably. And your point is...?

Keep ignoring everything else I said in my post. I'm sure you'll live in a very happy world of your own.

 

[fevgatos]

Probably. And your point is...?

Keep ignoring everything else I said in my post. I'm sure you'll live in a very happy world of your own.

My point is that amd doesn't care about desktops that much, else they wouldnt sell their monolithic chips on mobile. They make more money on mobile, so here we are..

 

[AusWolf]

My point is that amd doesn't care about desktops that much, else they wouldnt sell their monolithic chips on mobile.

They sell their monolithic chips on mobile because idle power consumption is much more important when your cooling is restricted and you're on battery. They sell their chiplets on desktop because it's much better for performance and yields. It's not a conspiracy, just simple logic.

They make more money on mobile, so here we are..

At Scan UK:

Sure, AMD's mobile lineup is extremely popular and well-selling!

 

[fevgatos]

They sell their monolithic chips on mobile because idle power consumption is much more important when your cooling is restricted and you're on battery. They sell their chiplets on desktop because it's much better for performance and yields. It's not a conspiracy, just simple logic.


At Scan UK:
View attachment 320972
Sure, AMD's mobile lineup is extremely popular and well-selling!

I don't know why you keep insisting. If they cared about desktops we would have the monolithic on desktops. Yes they, don't have the yields and the capacity so they push those to the mobile. Fact is mobile zen is better than desktop zen. And I havent even touched the IGPU on the mobile parts which is insanely good.

 

[AusWolf]

I don't know why you keep insisting. If they cared about desktops we would have the monolithic on desktops.

Sure, overheating and eating a kilowatt, just like Intel. But Intel is switching over to chiplets with their next gen, so probably they don't care, either.

Yes they, don't have the yields and the capacity so they push those to the mobile.

Because you can't have chiplets on mobile due to the high idle power consumption. If below ~5 W idle with a chiplet design was a possibility, I'm sure mobile Ryzen would be chiplets, too, as it's cheaper to make.

Fact is mobile zen is better than desktop zen.

An 8-core mobile Ryzen with a 4 GHz base and ~5 GHz boost is much better than a 16-core desktop part with almost a whole GHz higher frequency, or one with similar frequencies but 6 times the L3 cache.

 

[fevgatos]

Sure, overheating and eating a kilowatt, just like Intel. But Intel is switching over to chiplets with their next gen, so probably they don't care, either.


Because you can't have chiplets on mobile due to the high idle power consumption. If below ~5 W idle with a chiplet design was a possibility, I'm sure mobile Ryzen would be chiplets, too, as it's cheaper to make.


An 8-core mobile Ryzen with a 4 GHz base and ~5 GHz boost is much better than a 16-core desktop part with almost a whole GHz higher frequency, or one with similar frequencies but 6 times the L3 cache.

Right, cause comparing the 8core zen 4 to the 16core zen 4 makes sense...

 

[AusWolf]

Right, cause comparing the 8core zen 4 to the 16core zen 4 makes sense...

You said mobile Ryzen is better. Why are 8 cores the top of the line, then?