Originally Posted by phanbuey
ok so it matches the 260, (which is what I said) but is slower than it by a bit because of the memory. Judging by how fast the 465 falls down as the resolution increases - compared to the 285 - i am going to venture and say that this will fall down in pretty much the same way. Hence, realistically it will lag behind in some games vs. a 260 216.
now... a 260 retailed for about $240 Nov-Dec of 2008 ... which is why this card is a fail. I mean srsly... same price, same power consumption, same performance... its basically a really power-hungry 5770 with less ram.
Well I was saying quite the opposite. ROPs and memory is almost completely irrelevant. GTX260 was not slower because of the ROPs (not until 2560x1600 4xAA at least.), but because of shader power. The GTX275, which has exactly the same ROPs as the 260 can testify this by being almost 20% faster than the 260 and being only slightly shy of performance of the 285, 8800GT was a good example too. I made a chart some time ago that demostrated that performance on Nvidia depended solely of shader power, at least at 1920x1200 4xAA, and if you do the math on latest Wizzard's review you will see this is the same with GTX4xx (and still is for GTX2xx). ROPs and memory will always have some effect on maximum lowest frames but average is not going to change much, nor will change the median low value. Average framerates depend completely on shader power or
maybe texture units. Imposible to tell, because SPs and TMUs are tied in Nvidia's architecture. Either way GF104 has a lot to win against the GTX465, because GF104 has more TMUs per cluster than GF100 according to rumors.
On top of that, I still have the impression that GF104 could be seen more like a GT200 with 50% more shaders than a crippled GF100. The rumor mill says that Nvidia calls GF104 the next 8800GT and that partners are eagerly awaiting it as the messiah. I don't think the chip that is being picturedin this thread would arise those feelings. Don't let the GTX460 name fool any of you, names can change almost 1 day before launch. And if you had (conspiracy theory ahead
1- a chip that went wrong like GF100 and that was delayed
2- enough time to make a redesign. remember that the 8800gt-like redesign has always been the plan. it was with G92, it was with the cancelled GT200 refresh and it's always been with GF104. the work on the refresh starts months if not years prior to the launch of the original chip.
3- a competitor that seems to be one step ahead of you.
1- work on a slightly different architecture: we at least know (rumors, granted) that GF104 is based on 24 SP clusters and has more TMUs per cluster.
2- hide it from your competitor
3- play with the names: pretty much like... how do we name the second Fermi SKU? 460 as always. wait no name it 470! 460 is now 470? yes but there's another card and it's 465? 465!!?? why not 460? because there's a 460, in fact, this one based on another chip and it's 192bit or 256bit, so what does everybody think? clearly inferior...
But is it so clearly inferior? Well at this point it's pretty clear it will have 336 (8800GT sucessor) and 384 SPs (8800GTS sucessor) so it is
going to be inferior to the full Fermi aka 480, but it doesn't have to be necessarily much slower, just like G92 was not clearly inferior to G80. That it's going to be 192 and 256 bit, we do know, but so is Cypress. GF100 based cards use very slow GDDR5 memory especially the lower SKUs. At 4800 Mhz it has enough bandwidth to be as fast as the HD5870 and if shaders work as well as in GT200 (remember that SP number per cluster went back to 24), it will also have the shader power: 50% increase on shaders over GT200 minus some inneficiencies = enough to reach the the level of Cypress* which is 25% faster than GTX285. It will mainly depend on texture units tbh. If they have been increased back to the same amount found on GT200, we might have a winner.
I know it's pure speculation and maybe of the bad one, but everybody expects the worst and I always love showing the other angle of things. Just some food for thought and discussion material.
* I said Cypress because I wanted to talk about the gap between 470 and 480, like 8800GT was between 8800GTS 640 and the GTX. I find that saying Cypress level is easier than "gap between 470 and 480", not because I want to imply it will be faster than Cypress, althoug I'm aware it's the same thing. <- I swear I understand what I mean with this.