Who'll be the better president?

[erocker]

Originally Posted by CStylen

More hospitals, doctors and education is useless with insurance companies and drug companies being the main cause for inflated healthcare costs in the US.

Exactly.

[Darkrealms]

I think that right now healthcare should receive temporary restrictions as the Government moves out of this department. It can not just be abandonded by the government as the government has helped create the problem.

The people should be deciding what healthcare costs. If it costs $1000 for a broken pinky, guess what, most people won't go to the doctor and the price will drop. That is capitalism, supply and demand. Right now the government has gotten into everything and the "system" of healthcare has exploded.

As I had stated earlier I do not have a problem helping out those that helped/ran our country before us (65+ for example) and even having a program to help those in "hard times" for a temporary timeframe while they are getting back on their feet. Business men not politicians should be hired for this type of task.

[CStylen]

Originally Posted by Odin Eidolon

OMG CS, really "obviously people which live outside the US do not agree with our principles, or else they would be living here."??? Well, that sounds quite... better not to tell
You mean:
We are americans, we are better, we are different, we have our principles which CANT BE WRONG? Seriously, thats completely wrong. Your last posts...

From post #196:
European healthcare is VERY good compared to the one you have. The rich can have even better by paying, while the poor can have a good one. In USA, the rich have a good healthcare, the poors dont. 40% of the people in America cannot afford the healthcare we have FOR FREE. You are about 350millions, right? it makes 140 million people that is in serious danger of life, since they cant be cured.

Post #201:
first, capitalism has failed. you can see this. maybe you dont want to admit it, but it is true. i'm not telling you thats the worst system ever, i dont know. simply, it doesnt work.
The government SHOULD help you. the government should BE the people in your constitution, if something has to be reformed is the connection between the politics and the people, that has been lost since corruption grows limitless.

post #204:
You talk of freedom. What is freedom to you? the possibility to do whatever you want? Emmanuel Kant says: a man can be free only if he succeeds in defeating all his selfish insticts.
I dont think you dont intend freedom to be "doing whatever i want". Tell us whats freedom for you, than you'll be able to use the word FRREDOM without restrains. This is a misused word often.

post #207:
the international situation changes every second. There MUST be a government, if there wasnt it would be anarchy, since it has an important stabilizing social role. The system would fall immediately without it.

post #220:
you are simply wrong. your statements are simply untrue. Polls and surveys tell you that you healthcare system is one of the worst of the world. Even Cuba's system, as shown in MMoore's last film (dont remember the title) is better. and IM NOT a Michael Moore fan. The fact that maybe you have the money and that you can afford healthcare doesnt mean that your healthcare works. It works for you, it doesnt work at all for 40% of the Americans.

Were you related to Mussolini?

I do have to apologize to everyone here that I love my country. I am not saying in any way that the US is better, but simply that if you didn't agree with your contries principles - you would leave or fight to make it better..well depending on the type of government anyway.

[Darkrealms]

Originally Posted by Polaris573

Oh really? Amtrak anyone? How long has the government running at a loss? There was a budgetary surplus for a very short time in the 90s, but it's been quite a long time since the government hasn't been hemorrhaging money.

The people (Republicans and Democrats) who brought you Amtrak and an 11 trillion dollar national debt will now be bringing you:

• Nationalized Banks
• Nationalized Insurance
• Nationalized Airlines
• Nationalized Oil
• Nationalized Auto Industry
• Nationalized Loans

Pardon my ignorance, but will someone please direct me to the clause in the constitution that reads, "All powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government will be delegated to the Federal Reserve in loose conjunction with the Treasury Department." Really if we want to give communism a try let us at least be open about it. Amend the constitution to allow these things and officially declare the free market dead in the United States. If that is what the people want then so be it.

On economic issues there is not a dollar worth of difference between Obama and McCain. Them and congress both shout loudly that they love the free market while giving a reach around to special interests and corporations.

Vote third party. Oust your incumbent senators and representatives.

I really wish the government was not involved in these sectors but unfortunatly with the economy the way it is the government is trying to keep everything running themselves.

[btarunr]

Please fellas, no personal insults. If somebody quashed your argument, feel free to quash back without getting personal.

You are completely wrong because.... is fine, but Are you xxxxxxxxx ? .... isn't.

[CStylen]

I apologize for my statement earlier to Odin Eidolon.

Can this get back to topic now?

[trt740]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

All Obama is going to do is make the US have the improvements that countries like the UK, France have been benefiting from for years.

There is a reason why the UK have the highest rated healthcare systems in the world.

Even India is better in some respects in healthcare. Just ask btarunr.

are you crazy every dignitary in the world flys to the Mayo Clinic or to the Cleveland Clinc for treatment. The USA has the finest doctors and health care in the world hands down.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Wallstreet Journal is owned and operated under News Corp. Which is owned by an Australian by the name of Rupert Murdoch. Do research on Rupert Murdoch and his views and you will see what I am talking about. Wallstreet journal was great until Murdoch bought it many years ago.

I used to read wallstreet journal all the time until Rupert bought it. I loved the annual wine guide.

I research economics and politics alot more than computers.

so what do you read I bet they are all liberal news outlets.

[Bigjohn]

Originally Posted by fausto412

france, england, taiwan and a few other countrys have healthcare for everyone while spending half what the US spends.

They don't spend "half" by any stretch of the imagination, not per person. And by the way, what is the base tax rate in those countries? People in the USA who make less than 25k typically GET money from the government...yes, GET... America is a superpower not because of it's government, but because of the people.

America's tax system is an abortion. Democrats in the US talk about what is FAIR. What is fair to them is TAKING what they've not earned and giving it to people, who then VOTE for them. It's unconstitutional, but no one has yet challenged it. Not to mention it's THEFT, immoral and wrong.

Obama IS a product of the Daly machine in Chicago... the only place the DEAD vote (early and often).

Is McCain MY pick? No, but his beliefs are MUCH closer to my own that Obama. I want to be making more than 250k some day... so there is no way I'm going to make that harder by putting a huge tax on those people to pay for programs for people who are too stupid to stay in school and get real jobs.

[CStylen]

Originally Posted by Odin Eidolon

OMG CS, really "obviously people which live outside the US do not agree with our principles, or else they would be living here."??? Well, that sounds quite... better not to tell
You mean:
We are americans, we are better, we are different, we have our principles which CANT BE WRONG? Seriously, thats completely wrong. Your last posts...

From post #196:
European healthcare is VERY good compared to the one you have. The rich can have even better by paying, while the poor can have a good one. In USA, the rich have a good healthcare, the poors dont. 40% of the people in America cannot afford the healthcare we have FOR FREE. You are about 350millions, right? it makes 140 million people that is in serious danger of life, since they cant be cured.

Post #201:
first, capitalism has failed. you can see this. maybe you dont want to admit it, but it is true. i'm not telling you thats the worst system ever, i dont know. simply, it doesnt work.
The government SHOULD help you. the government should BE the people in your constitution, if something has to be reformed is the connection between the politics and the people, that has been lost since corruption grows limitless.

post #204:
You talk of freedom. What is freedom to you? the possibility to do whatever you want? Emmanuel Kant says: a man can be free only if he succeeds in defeating all his selfish insticts.
I dont think you dont intend freedom to be "doing whatever i want". Tell us whats freedom for you, than you'll be able to use the word FRREDOM without restrains. This is a misused word often.

post #207:
the international situation changes every second. There MUST be a government, if there wasnt it would be anarchy, since it has an important stabilizing social role. The system would fall immediately without it.

post #220:
you are simply wrong. your statements are simply untrue. Polls and surveys tell you that you healthcare system is one of the worst of the world. Even Cuba's system, as shown in MMoore's last film (dont remember the title) is better. and IM NOT a Michael Moore fan. The fact that maybe you have the money and that you can afford healthcare doesnt mean that your healthcare works. It works for you, it doesnt work at all for 40% of the Americans.

RE: post 196
American hospitals treat any and everybody regardless of money, race, religion, etc. Just becase an individual doesn't have health insurance, doesn't mean they are incurable.

RE: post 201
Capitalism made the US the superpower it is today. Our founding fathers believed that the the people cotrol there own destinies with minimal government intervention which has also led us to be a superpower.

RE: post 204
Please google the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitiution regarding freedom.

RE: post 207
You are correct in the sense that no government would be anarchy. However, the foundation of the US government was based on minimal government intervention which is run by the people. Please google the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitiution regarding freedom.

RE: post 220
You are correct that our healthcare is in need of reform. Based on the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitiution I would strongly oppose a nationalized healthcare system which I assume you are in favor of.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by WhiteLotus

Serious question then - who would/will you vote for? That actually intrigues me, I thought you were McCain all the way, damn assumptions!

Don't worry if you don't want to post though.

Of these 4 jokers Biden is the best choice of the 4 and hes not my first choice either. I would have voted for Hillary Clinton ,with all her warts and flaws, atleast I knew what I was getting but shes not my first choice either. To tell you the truth they are all goofs and none of them are normal people looking out for the average American. They are all million airs, with the exception of Palin and she doesn't have enough experience and thats scary because she has more experience than Obama shes aleast run and state and been a mayor, Obama never sponsored a bill until last week, never ran any goverment, anything, never wrote a city or state budget, or overseen a goverment office , never even handled a budget for a small town, didn't serve in the military, wasn't a Govenor, all he was was a political activist ,a city council member,and a senator 137 days who didn't vote on anything and imediately upon arriving on capitol hill started running for president and we want him to lead us into two wars as a commander a cheif and the through worst economic situation since the great depression, and to be looking out for the most wealthy and powerful country on earth?

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by trt740

are you crazy every dignitary in the world flys to the Mayo Clinic or to the Cleveland Clinc for treatment. The USA has the finest doctors and health care in the world hands down.

...for those who can afford it.


So you expect NVIDIA/ATI to sell you the most kick-ass graphics card for the least price, but apply different schools of thought when it comes to health-care? The fact that it is expensive doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. "Best" is a very relative term here.

[Bigjohn]

Emmanuel Kant says: a man can be free only if he succeeds in defeating all his selfish insticts

Um, I don't know who posted that, but Emanuel Kant is a socialist loon.

A man can only be free when he's free to do as he pleases - so long as his actions do not deprive another of their rights to life, liberty, and property. (Paraphrased from Thomas Jefferson)

Selfish interests are what drive men to succeed. To excel at what they do. Imagine GOLF if Tiger Woods had no selfish interest....

[trt740]

Originally Posted by btarunr

...for those who can afford it.


So you expect NVIDIA/ATI to sell you the most kick-ass graphics card for the least price, but apply different schools of thought when it comes to health-care? The fact that it is expensive doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. "Best" is a very relative term here.

yes but you cannot compare Indias health care to the USA if you are poor here you cannot be refused heathcare by law. I know several Indian doctors India is a much poorer country than the USA. It is a very great country and a friend of the USA's but it is much less wealthy.

[Bigjohn]

Originally Posted by erocker

Exactly.

Wrong.
Healthcare in the US came under severe government intervention when the UNIONS (socialist gangs of thugs) demanded more and more things be covered by their "insurance". Even into the late 1960's you could get a house-call from a doctor. No more...Why? Because the unions demanded EVERYTHING be covered by "insurance". WTF? Car insurance does not cover oil changes or car washes, why should "health insurance" cover a checkup??

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by trt740

yes but you cannot compare Indias health care to the USA if you are poor here you cannot be refused heathcare by law. I know several Indian doctors India is a much poorer country than the USA

I don't deny that at all. But ironically, Americans fly down here to get their treatments done at a price we term as fair. Price : Performance ratio ? Why do Americans fly down here when they have the "best" health-care there? Because not all can have access to necessary health-care when they need it.

Back when I was doing my interns, our hospital management asked us to survey our out-patient dept. to find out what people think about the way the government is making us price our services. It's a regulation. Surprisingly, the average Indian did not find the prices of health-care services pinching (or unreasonable). A surgery is an expensive affair for sure (by local standards), but it's not expensive enough for getting into the 'unreasonable' domain. I don't mean to say our system is the best either, at least it isn't unreasonable.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

We allow drug companies to charge any amount they want for a drug. There is no price regulation.

If there is a drug that cures your disease they can essentially hold your life hostage with charging you what you can barely pay or even not afford to get it. No price regulation here. Cancer drugs and Aids drugs here will cost you over $4,000 a month. It takes the company a couple hundred dollars to produce it. Drug companies are rolling in profits.

Some Americans drive to Mexico and Canada to buy their drugs and are arrested for it if they are caught, because they are charged with drug traffic offenses under the law even though its just for themselves.

Talk to your doctor about this and get back to me see what he thinks about regulation or better yet ask a English or Indian doctor what he thinks. In socialized medicine there is no incentive to develope new drug , get a higher medical degree or develope a new medical technique. Thats why the UK developes alot of drugs and cannot make money in the UK so they sell them here.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by Odin Eidolon

oh right, it could have been Saudi Royal Family, you could be right. Still, at that time they were involved in terrorism as much as Binladen, and financed lots terrorist organization.

show me your source because thats totally untrue.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Wallstreet Journal is owned and operated under News Corp. Which is owned by an Australian by the name of Rupert Murdoch. Do research on Rupert Murdoch and his views and you will see what I am talking about. Wallstreet journal was great until Murdoch bought it many years ago.

I used to read wallstreet journal all the time until Rupert bought it. I loved the annual wine guide.

I research economics and politics alot more than computers.

and Ted Turner is better? Hannoi Janes husband who founded CNN. Most normal Americans agree with Rupert Mudock and Fox news is the number one news source in America look it up. Hes a conservative Christian Bizzilion air and I agree with him on most topics.

[Mandown]

Originally Posted by Kreij

Hmmm ... There is a big difference between corporate taxation and individual taxation.
That being said, the people who earn a greater amount would be less likely (or possibly less able) to start new firms without the assistance of venture capital funding (a risky thing for a growing business).

How about a flat tax for all individuals. Say 10%.
I make 50K, I pay 5K
You make 1 Million, you pay 100K.
No loopholes, no shelters, nada.

Seems fair.

How about a fair tax, speaking of fair.
That will eliminate the IRS, including the penalty's if your late. So all the money you make you keep. That seems fair to me. All you would have is a sales tax. all the other taxes are eliminated. Businesses only have to worry about 1 tax, and that's on what they buy. Now that would also influence SAVING YOUR MONEY!!

[intel igent]

how come i can't vote? who closed the poll?

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by intel igent

how come i can't vote? who closed the poll?

Vote from the homepage.

[Mandown]

I voted but I keep getting the poll again.

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by Mandown

I voted but I keep getting the poll again.

Your vote gets registered from the homepage, one vote per user.

[Mandown]

Originally Posted by btarunr

Your vote gets registered from the homepage, one vote per user.

I did it on the homepage but it still comes back to vote again

nvm restarted firefox and it worked