Who'll be the better president?

[TUngsten]

Originally Posted by DaedalusHelios

Don't you realize its just smear tactics. They cannot debate policy to try to get people against him because his policies benefit everyone except the top 10% as far as wealth.

Indeed, I think it's sad to see the marked increase in dirty smear politics that have arisen since McCain's latest 5-8% drop in the polls.

I'm curious to see what happens at tonight's debate. I'm betting McCain is going to go all out with the same stuff Palin used, like the "94 votes to raise taxes" bit she kept mentioning, which Factcheck.org thoroughly discounted as being blatantly false. I'm sure he'll bring up Bill Ayers, since that's the newest thing they've latched onto.

Honestly, the Republicans didn't much of a chance this time around, with the field they put out there. I love Ron Paul, though. I'm also a registered Independent, but you all know that means we usually settle for the dems.

[NastyHabits]

Whew! Glad to see some conciliatory comments in this thread at last.

The way I see it, it's the liberals job to push the envelope, and the conservatives job to say "Whoa". Politics, like life in general, consists of making compromises. Freedom, is the ability to chose those compromises. Freedom is NOT getting your way all the time.

Our founding fathers were a mix of Conservatives and Liberals, Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson being two prime examples. We fought a conservative revolution - that is we wanted to conserve the rights taken away by the English - yet we justified that revolution with the Declaration of Independence -- one of the most liberal documents of all time.

So I would like to close with two quotes from our time:

You can't always get what you want..., but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need.

Can't we all just get along?

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Whilst the discussion revolving around the "slur" of both candidates is very relevant and quite interesting, as well as witnessing the very different perceptions of many here, might I ask, as a Brit that isnt that necessarily well informed 1st hand, if some people might highlight the political strengths and weakness of each if they were to be your "Commander in Chief" as opposed to their personal lives, I only ask because, party politics aside, I really would like to know, from a skills point of view, what they really do offer the American public.

http://www.ontheissues.org/default.htm

Thats a political science research website.^^

Yes, it has no bias.

[CyberDruid]

Man I was having a hard time listening to the debate tonight. McCain is so full of vitriol and so negative and mean. He was bordering on disrespecting Obama repeatedly...almost every opening word was something nasty or stupid about Obama.

He's just a mean old man..and that's the last thing we need in the Oval Office.

[Bigjohn]

Originally Posted by TUngsten

I don't think that Rev. Wright is anywhere near as offensive as David Duke, but I certainly think some of the things he's said are questionable. You've got to remember though - what we've seen of his sermons are extremely small (albeit inflammatory) snippets carefully selected to create the political fallout you're using as ammunition vs. Obama.

David Duke formed the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and National Association for the Advancement of White People...I could go on and on but you know he's a nutcase too so I won't bother

Rev. Wright - "The US of KKK" guy... He's the black David Duke, and, since it is politically incorrect to say anything bad about anyone of color in the USA, well, one can't say he's bad... I mean, Barack "can't disown him anymore than he could his grandmother"...

Yet he sat in that church listening to this horendous anti-white, anti American drivel for 20 years, had the man marry him, baptise his children, and well, that's not a problem.. not at all...because, well, HE'S BLACK?????

BULLSQUEEZE, I say.
A racist is a racist, regardless of his color or any "prior offenses commited to his race" in the past...

You ARE associated with whom you choose to associate with - Obama can claim "Ayres did what he did when I was 8...", but I say "You were in your 30's when you sought him out for fundraisers and whatnot... so, are you saying that for over 20 years you learned nothing of history at all?? How the hell did you get to be a freaking lawyer???

[Bigjohn]

Originally Posted by CyberDruid

Man I was having a hard time listening to the debate tonight. McCain is so full of vitriol and so negative and mean. He was bordering on disrespecting Obama repeatedly...almost every opening word was something nasty or stupid about Obama.

He's just a mean old man..and that's the last thing we need in the Oval Office.

And Obama was so full of class warfare rhetoric that he sounded like Karl Marx walking around that stage...

[HAL7000]

I am voting for McCain, but because of Palin. She is really an intelligent woman who can relate to the average person, IMHO and who is an Washington outsider who hasn't been bought out.

The obama camp complains when the McCain camp returns with the facts rather than the rhetoric bull the obama camp shouts out and then they call foul, dam babies. McCain can lead America out of the last eight years but obama will simply bury America. Their records are proof of this. Read the facts of their records and stop listening to the political crap from the dam liberal media.

Mis information is a tale spoken loudly, but the truth is silent but speaks loudly...READ!

[DaedalusHelios]

Originally Posted by Bigjohn

And Obama was so full of class warfare rhetoric that he sounded like Karl Marx walking around that stage...

I doubt you know enough about Karl Marx to make that statement. I say this because most of your statements are simply inflamatory. I guess you must hate Europe then. They are more socialist than we have ever been.


Class Warfare is life in every culture I can imagine. Its the very nature of Capitalism. Its the job of the government to better serve its people. Not for the people to better serve it.

Originally Posted by HAL7000

I am voting for McCain, but because of Palin. She is really an intelligent woman who can relate to the average person, IMHO and who is an Washington outsider who hasn't been bought out.

The obama camp complains when the McCain camp returns with the facts rather than the rhetoric bull the obama camp shouts out and then they call foul, dam babies. McCain can lead America out of the last eight years but obama will simply bury America. Their records are proof of this. Read the facts of their records and stop listening to the political crap from the dam liberal media.

Mis information is a tale spoken loudly, but the truth is silent but speaks loudly...READ!

I honestly thought you were kidding when I first started reading your post. Alaska is number one for Pork Barreling. Even "Joe Sixpack" could've told you that one. Most sources indicate she scored 102 on an IQ test. Thats your average hockey mom, for those keeping count.

She reminds me of Miss South Carolina when she says "US Americans". She is funny but thats in the same way GW Bush was funny. She already has got herself into trouble recently for using public email services(yahoo,google) for sensitive government data for the state of Alaska.

How could she not be bought out when her HUSBAND IS AN OIL EXECUTIVE. < < I hope it speaks loudly for you as you stated above

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by CyberDruid

Man I was having a hard time listening to the debate tonight. McCain is so full of vitriol and so negative and mean. He was bordering on disrespecting Obama repeatedly...almost every opening word was something nasty or stupid about Obama.

He's just a mean old man..and that's the last thing we need in the Oval Office.

The Consensus in the British Media is that Obama won that round too.....just, well thats how it is being reported.

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by HAL7000

I am voting for McCain, but because of Palin. She is really an intelligent woman who can relate to the average person, IMHO and who is an Washington outsider who hasn't been bought out.

The obama camp complains when the McCain camp returns with the facts rather than the rhetoric bull the obama camp shouts out and then they call foul, dam babies. McCain can lead America out of the last eight years but obama will simply bury America. Their records are proof of this. Read the facts of their records and stop listening to the political crap from the dam liberal media.

Mis information is a tale spoken loudly, but the truth is silent but speaks loudly...READ!

See, the thing is, again, what I have seen via the British media, a couple of her speeches, an interview on US TV, she does not come across as particularily intelligent to me, now before anyone jumps on me for saying that, please bare in mind that on this subject I really am unbiased and as I mentioned, only comment on the limited things I have seen, i think a lot of the British public (not that it particularily matters to the US) think that she was selected to try and get those women voters that the Democrats were going to lose because of HC's failure and thats she was "different", she certainly is that and actually, politics aside I quite like her, but is "different" enough......in her case I am not so sure, if the Republican's do get in power, can you really see her leading your great nation for a prolonged period of time if say mcCain got taken seriously Ill and was out of politics for many months? Apart from that, again perhaps a misconception on my part, but I was kind of under the impression that Vice President was a sort of bit part job in the greater scheme of things, if that were to be true, shouldnt we be concentrating on the 2 presidential candidates? perhaps thats where our politics differ, in our elections, we dont even know who the Deputy Prime Minister will be most of the time, they are a bit part player and are normally appointed by the PM after he/she has won the election.

[CyberDruid]

My fear is that McCain and Palin truly represent the majority of Americans: the mean-spirited, fearful Americans...the ones that would rather see a decrepit old man in office because at least thank god he isn't black( or worse... a lib!!!). And Palin is nothing more than your typical "hatchetman" i.e. not too bright or careful about what's said, and willing to spew the vicious rhetoric so the old man does not have to...

Makes me sad.

Not that Obama is a great choice either...but at least he is not spewing vile crap everytime he opens his mouth...

[trt740]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Whilst the discussion revolving around the "slur" of both candidates is very relevant and quite interesting, as well as witnessing the very different perceptions of many here, might I ask, as a Brit that isnt that necessarily well informed 1st hand, if some people might highlight the political strengths and weakness of each if they were to be your "Commander in Chief" as opposed to their personal lives, I only ask because, party politics aside, I really would like to know, from a skills point of view, what they really do offer the American public.

Tatty, here is a great non partisan fact web site http://www.factcheck.org/

here is a direct link to last nights fact checks
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...bate_no_2.html THESE GUY ARE UNREAL AND BOTH ARE FLAT OUT LIARS!!!!

[CyberDruid]

Did anyone think Brokaw was a PITA last night? He seems kind of full of himself...

[mdm-adph]

Originally Posted by trt740

Tatty, here is a great non partisan fact web site http://www.factcheck.org/

here is a direct link to last nights fact checks
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...bate_no_2.html THESE GUY ARE UNREAL AND BOTH ARE FLAT OUT LIARS!!!!

Well now, even I wouldn't call them both liars, but they do like to strrrrrrrrrrretch out the truth. Har har.

Edit: That's actually a damn good site, that factcheck.org. Doesn't seem to take either side -- needs to be more sites like this.

[Rammsteiner]

Meh, I saw short slides of the debate on the news.

The fact that McCain attacked Obama for being more or less anti-Iraq war and also not willing to engage between 'Russia attacking Georgie' made me go wtf. First off I still have no clue why there are still soldiers in Iraq and Bush hasnt been arrested for war crimes, secondly Georgie fell more or less for the moving troops of Russia, which actually still were in Russia and thus Georgie attacked Russia.

I hope Red Alert 3 comes out soon so McCain can go play that for his horny war games, but shit is gonna hit the fan if he's going to mess with Russia on a lot of fronts. As far as Bush didnt create a WW III already, then McCain would.

Only little drawback from Obama is that he sometimes says something else than he said before. He shouldnt do that, but at least you've a chance Obama isnt going to mess things up even more globally. With McCain you pretty much have that black on white

[trt740]

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

Well now, even I wouldn't call them both liars, but they do like to strrrrrrrrrrretch out the truth. Har har.

Edit: That's actually a damn good site, that factcheck.org. Doesn't seem to take either side -- needs to be more sites like this.

either that or they are just dumb or atleast they think we are, and really if these two jokers are the best we have to offer we are in big big trouble. I have never been so dissatisfied with two candidates ever!!!

[trt740]

Originally Posted by Rammsteiner

Meh, I saw short slides of the debate on the news.

The fact that McCain attacked Obama for being more or less anti-Iraq war and also not willing to engage between 'Russia attacking Georgie' made me go wtf. First off I still have no clue why there are still soldiers in Iraq and Bush hasnt been arrested for war crimes, secondly Georgie fell more or less for the moving troops of Russia, which actually still were in Russia and thus Georgie attacked Russia.

I hope Red Alert 3 comes out soon so McCain can go play that for his horny war games, but shit is gonna hit the fan if he's going to mess with Russia on a lot of fronts. As far as Bush didnt create a WW III already, then McCain would.

Only little drawback from Obama is that he sometimes says something else than he said before. He shouldnt do that, but at least you've a chance Obama isnt going to mess things up even more globally. With McCain you pretty much have that black on white

If I was to advise Obama he need to stop saying he agrees with his opponents Ideas. It makes him look like hes parroting ideas. He may infact agree but do not say that maybe repeat part of what he agrees with and add his own idea without saying I agree with whoever. I will say hes a hell of a good speaker but he made several big mistakes as Mccain did. That debate was just bad, really it was bad. I also agree we need to leave Iraq not because it is morally correct but because we cannot afford it, it is killing our economy. We cannot help anyone if we are broke. It is time to withdraw. As for Bush being a war criminal I don't agree with that and it's not really apart of this topic G.W will be gone in a month or so and history will judge him.

[TUngsten]

Originally Posted by HAL7000

I am voting for McCain, but because of Palin. She is really an intelligent woman who can relate to the average person, IMHO and who is an Washington outsider who hasn't been bought out.[/B]

I think your comments put you in the vast minority of people. She is the most recent buyout by the Washington insiders. She's been bought, lock, stock and barrel - and she's now kept on a tight leash by McCain's handlers, only allowed to pop her head out and bark on command.

It's sad, really.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by TUngsten

I think your comments put you in the vast minority of people. She is the most recent buyout by the Washington insiders. She's been bought, lock, stock and barrel - and she's now kept on a tight leash by McCain's handlers, only allowed to pop her head out and bark on command.

It's sad, really.

This I don't agree with that at all you might not like her but atleast shes telling you most of the time what she truely believes and all of these people are well educated they just think we are stupid.

[Rammsteiner]

Originally Posted by trt740

If I was to advise Obama he need to stop saying he agrees with his opponents Ideas. It makes him look like hes parroting ideas. He may infact agree but do not say that maybe repeat part of what he agrees with and add his own idea without saying I agree with whoever. I will say hes a hell of a good speaker but he made several big mistakes as Mccain did. That debate was just bad, really it was bad. I also agree we need to leave Iraq not because it is morally correct but because we cannot afford it, it is killing our economy. We cannot help anyone if we are broke. It is time to withdraw.

Not trying to mess it up though, Ive yet to see any 'help' in Iraq though, they're basicly cleaning the mess they made them selves. But indeed, why continue the war while your own country is one big mess. USA simply cant afford to do it. But this was coming for years ago already as well, it was just one ticking time bomb.

I think debates in USA are mostly killed because of the simplistic backstabbing accusements really. They're really playing it one on one, blaming the other for stealing a snicker out of a shop at the age of 7 for example. It adds NOTHING to the whole presidency thing, yet it keeps on going. The most retarded thing is, people believe it and/or support it and actually decide their vote on such stupid childish arguments. But this happened for as long as Im aware of US elections so it's not really something new of course, but IMO it's a bit sad really.

And Im not chosing sides here, also Im not looking up all the debate videos and such. It's only judged on the things you see here on the news (yes, unbiased) and Ive to say McCain is being quite childish. But maybe he's becoming senile as well, I dont know. Obama has stupid stuff too, but now and then I think he reacts very mature to those accusements. But you know, as long as the American people listen and believe all the rubbish being thrown around, the longer it will continue really.

But the whole 'experience' thing from McCain is rubbish, Bush had experience and you see where we're now. In the end if someone is trully inexperienced he wouldnt even be able to come near presidency, no matter how much charisma he has, no matter how good he speaks.

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by trt740

This I don't agree with that at all you might not like her but atleast shes telling you most of the time what she truely believes and all of these people are well educated they just think we are stupid.

I know where you are coming from Tom but look at it another way, everyone in here for the last week has been telling each of us what they truly beleive, just look at how many disagreements that has caused! One thing is for sure, many of us beleive different things, Palin's issue, or barrier, is she has got to get the majority beleiving that they beleive what she believes!

In the British Media, little is talked about Obama's VP nomination but much is said about Palin....why do you think that is? I would suggest it might be because she isnt necessarily seen as credible (not saying she isnt, just not seen as) and therefore, because she is more in the spotlight, people start to think that she is having to make up for McCain's inadequacies where as Obama appears not to need to "wield" his nomination so much....again not an opinion of mine, just a perception of the little bits I see.......perhaps the UK media is reporting on her unfairly?

[KieranD]

Originally Posted by mdm-adph

The King of Saudi Arabia is leader of a country full of terrorists, not to mention he himself is a dictator. The fact that he's leader of a country doesn't make him a good person.

And ever heard of Wahhabism? That's the ideology that spawned 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers, right? Yeah, it's officially sponsored by the Saudi Arabian government, last I checked.

so i guess that the queen of britain is a terrorist and so is the king of spain

jesus just because you are a muslim dominated land dosnt mean it is a terrorist hot house

its up to the individual what he she does

not only Muslims are terrorists you get American terrorists you wouldnt call em that but people who go on mass murders or blow places up are classed as terrorists, irish IRA terrorists plenty of terrorists in the Balkans, Palestine has terrorists who bomb Israel

its not about if you are muslim and extremist only they are terrorists because that is a dumb stubborn view of the world, i bet if you asked the average American what they thought classes a terrorist as they would say muslim extremist when really it can be anyone! heck the IRA are so far from being similar to muslim extremist but are terrorists too

[SK-1]

This is scary if you are at all religious. This will make you re-think: A Trivia question in Sunday School:
How long is the beast allowed to have authority in Revelations?

Revelations Chapter 13 tells us it is 42 months, and you know what that is.
Almost a four-year term of a Presidency.


According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is: The anti-Christ will
be a man, in his 40's, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with
persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says
that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace,
and when he is in power, will destroy everything..

Do we recognize this description??

[TUngsten]

So now we base our political choices on a supposedly 2000 year old piece of fiction? Wonderful.

[WhiteLotus]

Originally Posted by SK-1

This is scary if you are at all religious. This will make you re-think: A Trivia question in Sunday School:
How long is the beast allowed to have authority in Revelations?

Revelations Chapter 13 tells us it is 42 months, and you know what that is.
Almost a four-year term of a Presidency.


According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is: The anti-Christ will
be a man, in his 40's, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with
persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says
that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace,
and when he is in power, will destroy everything..

Do we recognize this description??

Yea reminds me of Bush.

Please, the bible is just one contradictory statement after the next.