G92-Based GeForce 9 Series Products to be Renamed GeForce GTS 200 Series

[kysg]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

There are HD4650's with GDDR3 memory. So, no, it is not "blatantly stupid". And I wasn't comparing the cards. Also, looking up clocks and if the card has GDDR2 or GDDR3 is RESEARCH, to think it isn't is "blatantly stupid".

However, I was pointing out the same issue exists regardless of if the cards are actually new cards or rebadged cards. The name on the card shouldn't matter, however oli_ramsay seems to think that all customers are stupid enough to buy cards based solely on name. I agree, that there are some out there, like this, but most intellegent consumers do research before buying.

The naming schemes are not that easy to figure out, especially when comparing between two different series. How can the customer know if a card from the 4 series will outperform their current card from the 3 series? That is where the issue comes in. If you look at nVidia's scheme, you have the 8800GT and 9800GT, which is better? Neither, they are both the same, but it seems like one should be better than the other. Or the 8800GS and the 9600GSO, which is better there? How about ATi's side, what about the HD3850 or the HD2900XT? How about the HD2600XT and the HD3650?

yea ya got me on suffixes for that one, could have sworn I noted it though but if I'm correct.

8800GS and 9600GSO should be about the same matter of fact I can't remember.
2600XT is actually ahead of 3650 believe it or not. but depends of whether its gddr4 or gddr3. 2600XT gddr4 > 3650 > 2600XT gddr3 or roughly the same.


and I didn't realize they pumped out a 4650 with gddr3, my bad.
and the 2900XT hmm I don't remember the performance numbers too well. I want to argue that they would be the same. 3 series was a die shrink anyway but something tells me 2900XT would have edged it out barely.

[newtekie1]

Yes, but you wouldn't be able to tell any of that without doing the research. The name means nothing in reality.

And as for the 8800GS and 9600GSO, that is a true mind bender. Originally, the 9600GSO was just a rebadged 8800GS, so the two were identical. However, nVidia re-released the 9600GSO, and crippled its shader count while upping the memory bus width. So the old 9600GSO performed identically to the 8800GS, while the new 9600GSO is worse.

[PP Mguire]

Does that mean i can flash the bios of my cards to GTX250 or whatever they are?

[kysg]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Yes, but you wouldn't be able to tell any of that without doing the research. The name means nothing in reality.

And as for the 8800GS and 9600GSO, that is a true mind bender. Originally, the 9600GSO was just a rebadged 8800GS, so the two were identical. However, nVidia re-released the 9600GSO, and crippled its shader count while upping the memory bus width. So the old 9600GSO performed identically to the 8800GS, while the new 9600GSO is worse.

ah true good point. and believe it or not names do actually mean something. But I guess the companies could cripple the performance and make them useless here some info on suffixes for cards.

HM (HyperMemory)
SE (Special Edition)
LE (Limited Edition)
GT (Gran Turismo)
RX
(Plain, no suffix)
GTO
Pro
XL
XT (eXTreme)
XT PE (eXTreme Platinum Edition)
XTX

pain in the but to tell with nvidia's suffixes though. though wiki made some pretty good arguements.

nvidia also does it and is supposed to be arranged from lowest to highest based on the category

which should be LE, GS, GSO, GT, GTS, GTO, GTX, ultra, and GX2,

but I guess this doesn't sometimes always work especially in the case of 8800GT vs 9800GT and 9800GTX.

[spearman914]

LAWL. Later on they will change the 6xxx/7xxx series to GS 1xx. lol

[OzzmanFloyd120]

Originally Posted by Katanai

Blah. They are really getting shameless now...

I couldn't agree more.

[CDdude55]

More Nvidia name changing confusion.

[OzzmanFloyd120]

8800GT, 8800GS, 8800GTS 512, 9600GSO, 9800GT, 9800GTX, 9800GTX+, 9800GX2, GTS 240, GTX250, and the list will grow.

NV had better do something fancy and at least throw like a gig of GDDR3 on it to satisfy me.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by kysg

and the 2900XT hmm I don't remember the performance numbers too well. I want to argue that they would be the same. 3 series was a die shrink anyway but something tells me 2900XT would have edged it out barely.

The 2900XT was actually always faster than the 3850 and slightly ahead of the 3870. Basically, the 3870 was a bug-fixed 2900XT for heat & noise, but with very similar performance.

Some benchmarks, depending where reviewed, which games and what driver revision was used, had the 2900 beating the 3870 or vice versa, but it was pretty much a wash and the gamer couldn't tell on a blind test.

On a different note, I've got several high end graphics card by now, including a 2900XT 1GB & an 8800 GTX. The benchies to this day have a GTX beating the 2900, but more importantly, the game playing experience (frame rate) is so much smoother on the GTX at high resolutions and/or high AA & AF. The 2900 makes a bloody awful noise while losing, as well. That was my lemon purchase of last year.

Yeah, ATI really screwed up with the 2900, which was a great shame, since it held back the development of faster cards for over a year through lack of competition.

[kysg]

Originally Posted by qubit

The 2900XT was actually always faster than the 3850 and slightly ahead of the 3870. Basically, the 3870 was a bug-fixed 2900XT for heat & noise, but with very similar performance.

Some benchmarks, depending where reviewed, which games and what driver revision was used, had the 2900 beating the 3870 or vice versa, but it was pretty much a wash and the gamer couldn't tell on a blind test.

On a different note, I've got several high end graphics card by now, including a 2900XT 1GB & an 8800 GTX. The benchies to this day have a GTX beating the 2900, but more importantly, the game playing experience (frame rate) is so much smoother on the GTX at high resolutions and/or high AA & AF. The 2900 makes a bloody awful noise while losing, as well. That was my lemon purchase of last year.

Yeah, ATI really screwed up with the 2900, which was a great shame, since it held back the development of faster cards for over a year through lack of competition.

I see I don't remember the benches too well back then I was still using x1600pro. I rode that thing into the ground then sold it on ebay. I was debating on moving to a 3650 at that time and just held out for the 4850.

I always thought 2900XT was slightly behind 3870 but I stand corrected.

[magibeg]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

most intellegent consumers do research before buying.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Outside of the little niche of people on these tech forums and people working in IT a heck of a lot of people know near nothing about computers so they will go for the bigger name or by which card has more memory. Many tech stores are also commission based so selling them up to a bigger number that's a crappier card happens all the time.

[3dsage]

If overclocked the 2900xt outperforms the 3870 slightly, I've tested both cards on the same rig. I think its due to the 512-bit bus versus 256-bit.
I wonder how the 2900xtx 1gb gddr4 fairs, Its a rare card.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by magibeg

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Outside of the little niche of people on these tech forums and people working in IT a heck of a lot of people know near nothing about computers so they will go for the bigger name or by which card has more memory. Many tech stores are also commission based so selling them up to a bigger number that's a crappier card happens all the time.

Those people are not intelligent then, are they?

I don't work in the auto industry, or have anything to do with it, yet I don't just go onto a car lot and buy the one with the biggest number in the model name.

I don't work in the audio industry, or have anything to do with it, yet I don't walk into Best Buy and buy the stereo system with the best sounding name.

I don't work for the TV industry, or have anything to do with it, yet I don't just buy the TV with the biggest model number.

With the internet being the way it is today, with all the data available on virtually any product, there is no excuse for not being informed about what you are buying. Especially, when it comes to computer related items. Anyone that doesn't inform themselves before making a purchase is not what I would consider intelligent.

You don't have to know a damn thing about computers to go online and find out what is better than what in the world of graphics cards.

[Gam'ster]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Those people are not intelligent then, are they?

I don't work in the auto industry, or have anything to do with it, yet I don't just go onto a car lot and buy the one with the biggest number in the model name.

Long story short, i worked in the car industry for a few years and i had a customer who couldn't choose between car A and car B, now i had told him that Car B was the better buy not because it was more commission or anything but purely because car A was a shitbox, But Just because his " which " magazine said that car A had more " spanners " in the reliability category he bought it even after i told him it wasn't for him and he had no end of trouble with it. Now i agree 100% with newtekie that the information is there for people but its finding the information that can be the problem for some, As my story shows a rational individual given the wrong info on a product can be disastrous and from my experience the person or magazine supplying the info is usually the idiot not the purchaser.
Also there are people who just buy things on impulse and are beyond help .

[FreedomEclipse]

Originally Posted by kysg

ah true good point. and believe it or not names do actually mean something. But I guess the companies could cripple the performance and make them useless here some info on suffixes for cards.

HM (HyperMemory)
SE (Special Edition)
LE (Limited Edition)
GT (Gran Turismo)
RX
(Plain, no suffix)
GTO
Pro
XL
XT (eXTreme)
XT PE (eXTreme Platinum Edition)
XTX

pain in the but to tell with nvidia's suffixes though. though wiki made some pretty good arguements.

nvidia also does it and is supposed to be arranged from lowest to highest based on the category

which should be LE, GS, GSO, GT, GTS, GTO, GTX, ultra, and GX2,

but I guess this doesn't sometimes always work especially in the case of 8800GT vs 9800GT and 9800GTX.

I always thought 'LE' stood for Lite Edition when it came to graphics card terms.... such as my mate having a Nvida 6600LE - aint nothing 'limited edition' about it, it sucks donkey balls

[zithe]

Originally Posted by kysg

meh comparing the 3850 to 4650 is blatantly stupid IMO even when not doing research its friggin clear that 4650 and 3850 do not compare for a minute, the clocks, gddr2 vs gddr3, heck that analogy is busted. excuse for that one.

Now I could understand if you were talking 3850 vs 4670 now that could be an issue. Besides users by now should have a small understanding of naming spec.

Most people assume that a card with a bigger number is better than a card with a smaller number. My friend thought his 9600GT was stronger than my 8800GTX... I've had countless friends who have made similar assumptions.

Originally Posted by newtekie1

You don't have to know a damn thing about computers to go online and find out what is better than what in the world of graphics cards.

That's true, but people aren't us. They don't know where to look. People get confused and they just don't want to research things. You'd think that with all the internet has to offer, the common everyday person would know more than just what brand of underwear is their favorite.
It took my friend weeks to figure out how to determine what type of video card he had with me telling him EXACTLY WHAT TO DO...

[Gam'ster]

Originally Posted by FreedomEclipse

I always thought 'LE' stood for Lite Edition when it came to graphics card terms.... such as my mate having a Nvida 6600LE - aint nothing 'limited edition' about it, it sucks donkey balls

Lol brilliant.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by 3dsage

If overclocked the 2900xt outperforms the 3870 slightly, I've tested both cards on the same rig. I think its due to the 512-bit bus versus 256-bit.
I wonder how the 2900xtx 1gb gddr4 fairs, Its a rare card.

Indeed it is rare - and it's a card not worth having! lol It's typically about 5% faster than the 512MB version at stock speeds. The RAM is GDDR4 on that rather than GDDR3 and is clocked faster. I would agree that the wider bus tends to help make it faster here, as the bandwidth on paper is actually somewhat more than the 3870, so the 3870 is still at a disadvantage despite the improved core.

Here's a link on the HIS website that shows a nicely presented tech spec comparison between the different 2900 versions:

http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product1-45.shtml

Oh and in the name of full disclosure, mine is a Sapphire Pro model, which I flashed the BIOS on to turn it into an XT. I can overclock the CPU to 800MHz+ and the RAM to 2.2GHz+ on it. To achieve perfect stability however, one has to increase the supply voltage and that makes a bad noise problem simply intolerable, though. I wonder how those enthusiasts who o/c two of these in Crossfire could stand the environmental noise hazard!

I've also got a HIS HD4870 512MB and that baby just blows the doors off it for performance and noise. The difference is astounding; even more than the benchmarks and reviews would suggest.

Ironically, despite it being a lemon, I find the 2900 the most visually attractive card I've seen (and yes, I'm the one person who actually liked the flame design on it lol). The 4870 looks pretty cool too, though. If I didn't want to fiddle around with the 2900 occasionally, I'd just eBay the thing and get back what I could on it.

Also, I now have a Leadtek 9800 GX2 that I got b-grade recently for cheap and it's (deep intake of breath) fast...

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by oli_ramsay

lol, so 8800gt became 9800gt which now becomes the GTS 240. I wonder how many people will fall for this and end up thinking that the GTS 240 is more powerful than the 8800gt and pay more for it.

the 9800GT outperforms the 8800GT by a good margin, there are differences.

[DarkMatter]

Originally Posted by 3870x2

the 9800GT outperforms the 8800GT by a good margin, there are differences.

How so?? You're just kidding right? It's the exact same chip with the exact same clocks.

[zithe]

Originally Posted by DarkMatter

How so?? You're just kidding right? It's the exact same chip with the exact same clocks.

I'm wondering, too. They didn't increase the clocks for the reference cards. :P

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by DarkMatter

How so?? You're just kidding right? It's the exact same chip with the exact same clocks.

the 8800GT doesn't support tri sli
the 8800GT doesn't support DX10.1

the 9800GTX is an 8800GTS512, and outperforms the GTS, same with these cards
go look it up, do your homework, look up some benches, then get back to me.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by zithe

Most people assume that a card with a bigger number is better than a card with a smaller number. My friend thought his 9600GT was stronger than my 8800GTX... I've had countless friends who have made similar assumptions.



That's true, but people aren't us. They don't know where to look. People get confused and they just don't want to research things. You'd think that with all the internet has to offer, the common everyday person would know more than just what brand of underwear is their favorite.
It took my friend weeks to figure out how to determine what type of video card he had with me telling him EXACTLY WHAT TO DO...

I type "video card reviews" into google, and the first link is gpureview, one of the best sites to find, not only the specs of all the video cards, but links to reviews on them also. It really isn't difficult, even if you know nothing at all.

It really is not that difficult to do some simply product research before buying.

Originally Posted by DarkMatter

How so?? You're just kidding right? It's the exact same chip with the exact same clocks.

Yeah, I was wondering this also.

Originally Posted by 3870x2

the 8800GT doesn't support tri sli
the 8800GT doesn't support DX10.1

the 9800GTX is an 8800GTS512, and outperforms the GTS, same with these cards
go look it up, do your homework, look up some benches, then get back to me.

1.) The 9800GT doesn't support Tri-SLI. With the sole exception being a special card made by ASUS, but the reference 9800GT does not support Tri-SLi.
2.) No G92 or G92b based card support DX10.1. Not even the GT200 cards support DX 10.1.
3.) The 9800GTX had higher clocks than an 8800GTS512, that is why it outperformed it. When clocked the same, the two performed the same.
4.) The 9800GTX is definitely not an 8800GST512. The 9800GTX was definitely a better card than the 8800GTS512, though not for reasons that really affected performance(clock for clock).

[zithe]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I type "video card reviews" into google, and the first link is gpureview, one of the best sites to find, not only the specs of all the video cards, but links to reviews on them also. It really isn't difficult, even if you know nothing at all.

It really is not that difficult to do some simply product research before buying.



Yeah, I was wondering this also.

It doesn't matter how easy it is. If people don't want to do it, they won't. Why do you think you see so many people going to the bestbuy help? They are lazy.

[trt740]

Originally Posted by btarunr

The NVIDIA G92 graphics processor has had the reputation of spanning across two generations of GeForce graphics accelerators, which could well become three with talk about NVIDIA executing another re-branding to products based on the GPU. The re-branding will use the B1 revision of the G92 GPU (aka G92b), which is known to have been manufactured on the 55nm fabrication process, along with the 65nm A1 revision.

The new series created will include two SKUs based on the G92, the GeForce GTS 240 and GeForce GTS 250. These are the 112 SP and 128 SP variants of the G92 core, presently branded under 8800/9800 GT and 8800 GTS 512, 9800 GTX/GTX+ respectively. NVIDIA looks to capitalise on the sales improvement the GTX 200 series has seen for the past two or so months now, by giving it a present-generation branding. The re-branding, or rather, releasing products with the new naming scheme is said to be operationalised by February 2009.

Source: Expreview

unreal someone should sue them for deceptive sales pratices