G92-Based GeForce 9 Series Products to be Renamed GeForce GTS 200 Series

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by zithe

It doesn't matter how easy it is. If people don't want to do it, they won't. Why do you think you see so many people going to the bestbuy help? They are lazy.

Again, that goes back to intelligent people do research. Laziness isn't an excuse.

[farlex85]

Well, so long as they keep improving drivers and thus performance I suppose they have just reason for the constant re-badging, although it certainly is pretty gratuitous at this point. I figured we'd have already seen some more lower 200s by now, I didn't thing they'd be based on the 8k though.

[DarkMatter]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

Again, that goes back to intelligent people do research. Laziness isn't an excuse.

I completely agree with your take on that. If someone is stupid enough to spend $200 or even $100 without doing any research, it deserves to pay the little extra price the new cards will have. If they even have a higher price: the 9800GT debuted at lower prices than ANY 8800GT here in Spain. Prices went up eventually, but only once the 8800gt had almost dissapeared from stocks. Pure offer/demand IMHO.

Originally Posted by farlex85

Well, so long as they keep improving drivers and thus performance I suppose they have just reason for the constant re-badging, although it certainly is pretty gratuitous at this point. I figured we'd have already seen some more lower 200s by now, I didn't thing they'd be based on the 8k though.

G92 and GT200 is based on the same basic "pieces" and are mounted by those pieces as if they were LEGO's. We usually say that on the shader front G92 has 8 TPCs "thread processing clusters" of 16 SPs and GT200 has 10 of 24 SPs. But that's not exactly true. Each cluster is formed by a smaller unit that Nvidia calls Shader Multi-processor (SM) and each of those is identical in both chips: containing 8 SPs.

TPCs in G92 contain 2 SMs (16 SP) and 8 texture units and GT200 has 3 SMs and 8 texture units. What do you think is better? Actually a lesser SM number per TPC is better, but also is better to mantain a balance between the number of SPs per TPC and the number of TPCs, so if you want to make a chip with more SPs you have to increase both or to make an smaller one decrease them both. That's why Nvidia is not doing "GT200 based" (as I said both are fundamentally the same architecture) midrange cards, G92 is already the hot spot in the balance of SP/TPC.

Just to show how sure I am on that theory I bet (not money, nothing really, just honour or sumthing lol) and I can almost assure the next Nvidia chip will have 12 TPCs of 4 SM (32 SP) each for a total of 384 SPs.

[Solaris17]

Wtf?

[qubit]

Originally Posted by DarkMatter

G92 and GT200 is based on the same basic "pieces" and are mounted by those pieces as if they were LEGO's...

...That's why Nvidia is not doing "GT200 based" (as I said both are fundamentally the same architecture) midrange cards, G92 is already the hot spot in the balance of SP/TPC."

In other words, what you're saying is that the G200 chip is just a bigger version of the G92 chip. Therefore scaling it back just gets you back to a G92, at least approximately, hence the rebrand.

I suspected this; appreciate the explanation.

[kysg]

Originally Posted by qubit

In other words, what you're saying is that the G200 chip is just a bigger version of the G92 chip. Therefore scaling it back just gets you back to a G92, at least approximately, hence the rebrand.

I suspected this; appreciate the explanation.

I agree with what darkmatter said completely. On a side note. Still its kinda awkward you know. I think people in general just don't care about which card they have in their machine or when they hear any talk about anything in computers they just switch on auto-pilot mode.

I hate to say this but as much as people like computers and stuff I don't think it matters what they buy I think they just want bragging rights or just want something in their that runs...or maybe its just me.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by kysg

I agree with what darkmatter said completely. On a side note. Still its kinda awkward you know. I think people in general just don't care about which card they have in their machine or when they hear any talk about anything in computers they just switch on auto-pilot mode.

I hate to say this but as much as people like computers and stuff I don't think it matters what they buy I think they just want bragging rights or just want something in their that runs...or maybe its just me.

Yeah, I think you're right. I work in IT, on the Helpdesk and face to face within the organization fixing people's PC problems and I can tell you, their stupidity is often truly astounding!

The number of times I get people exclaming things like "It's the Samsung!", confusing the monitor with the PC is beyond count. They then express surprise that the little box thing on the side of their desk is the computer. I even had one slightly older woman (quite assertively and with a snobby accent) tell me that she didn't have a computer thingy, just a keyboard and a monitor, silly! She suddenly felt very foolish when I asked her how she thought the picture got on the monitor... She'd been there for four years and had never switched the PC off!!

I mean, understanding stuff like this is just plain common sense, no? You don't have to be computer literate to understand these basics. That's what basic intelligence is for.

Well, to finish my rambling point, is that dumbasses like that outnumber is savvy types 1000 to 1. Companies like nvidia know this and capitalize on it with stupid product names, knowing full well that people of this grade will just buy them, likely at an inflated price on the high street on the recommendation of the uneducated and untrained Saturday shop assistant. These underhand corporate tactics happen everywhere of course, not just computer parts.

Unfortunately, this situation compromises the price and quality of the products that are available to us enthusiasts, which is a shame.

[Hayder_Master]

hahaha , i am sorry my old 8800gt seems your company still remember you

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by kysg

I agree with what darkmatter said completely. On a side note. Still its kinda awkward you know. I think people in general just don't care about which card they have in their machine or when they hear any talk about anything in computers they just switch on auto-pilot mode.

I hate to say this but as much as people like computers and stuff I don't think it matters what they buy I think they just want bragging rights or just want something in their that runs...or maybe its just me.

I can certainly agree. At my old job, I would hear stupid shit all the time. People would come to me almost daily and say stuff like "I want a new printer, I don't really care what kind it is, as long as it is better than Bob's new printer".

This really comes down to the fact that there are two types of people. There are the people like us, the enthusiests/gamers, and there are people like you describe, that don't really care as long as it works.

The people like us, will do their research before buying, so this rebadge won't affect us. The people you describe, probably won't be upgrading in the first place, but if they do, they won't care about the performance.

The only people this might fool are the people who are like you describe, but are trying to transition into gamers, but don't want to actually gain any of the knowledge associated with it. And laziness still isn't an excuse in this case.

[3870x2]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I type "video card reviews" into google, and the first link is gpureview, one of the best sites to find, not only the specs of all the video cards, but links to reviews on them also. It really isn't difficult, even if you know nothing at all.

It really is not that difficult to do some simply product research before buying.



Yeah, I was wondering this also.



Wow, you really are full of yourself aren't you?

1.) The 9800GT doesn't support Tri-SLI. With the sole exception being a special card made by ASUS, but the reference 9800GT does not support Tri-SLi.
2.) No G92 or G92b based card support DX10.1. Not even the GT200 cards support DX 10.1.
3.) The 9800GTX had higher clocks than an 8800GTS512, that is why it outperformed it. When clocked the same, the two performed the same.
4.) The 9800GTX is definitely not an 8800GST512. The 9800GTX was definitely a better card than the 8800GTS512, though not for reasons that really affected performance(clock for clock).

no, the 9800GTX has the exact same core as the 8800GTS, and you are right it is an 8800GTS overclocked.

[farlex85]

Your right newtekie and have corrected the info. The rest could now be settled w/ pm's as it no longer pertains to the topic yes?

[kysg]

Seem to be missing a few posts here looks like 1 got deleted I know I deleted mine.

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by farlex85

The rest could now be settled w/ pm's as it no longer pertains to the topic yes?

Apparently that won't be necessary. Removed/edited some posts. No fights anywhere please, Thank You.

[kysg]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I can certainly agree. At my old job, I would hear stupid shit all the time. People would come to me almost daily and say stuff like "I want a new printer, I don't really care what kind it is, as long as it is better than Bob's new printer".

This really comes down to the fact that there are two types of people. There are the people like us, the enthusiests/gamers, and there are people like you describe, that don't really care as long as it works.

The people like us, will do their research before buying, so this rebadge won't affect us. The people you describe, probably won't be upgrading in the first place, but if they do, they won't care about the performance.

The only people this might fool are the people who are like you describe, but are trying to transition into gamers, but don't want to actually gain any of the knowledge associated with it. And laziness still isn't an excuse in this case.

I'd like to follow up on this one, I don't think it's so much laziness but computers are very complicated pieces of equipment, now this sounds like crap to most of us. and if anything talking about them sounds nerdy, granted nerdy isn't the term to use. I just needed a filler word. take for example video cards, when you dig deep down and start talking about ROP's, texture fill rates, TMU's shaders and transistors I can tell ya that is going in one and straght out the other. Even though those are some of very things that make the difference in cards nowadays. I guess it's all in how you talk to people vs. the persons interest in the subject overall.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by kysg

I'd like to follow up on this one, I don't think it's so much laziness but computers are very complicated pieces of equipment, now this sounds like crap to most of us. and if anything talking about them sounds nerdy, granted nerdy isn't the term to use. I just needed a filler word. take for example video cards, when you dig deep down and start talking about ROP's, texture fill rates, TMU's shaders and transistors I can tell ya that is going in one and straght out the other. Even though those are some of very things that make the difference in cards nowadays. I guess it's all in how you talk to people vs. the persons interest in the subject overall.

Definitely, it is very easy to get overwhelmed with data on a subject that you know little about. However, while most reviews do have the technical data, they also have simple performance breakdowns that are really what the person needs to look at when considering an upgrade.

Most don't care how many shaders or ROPs the card has, they only care about performance.

[DarkMatter]

I agree with newtekie. Yes, it's a lot of data and maybe overwhelming for the starters, but it really isn't necessary. And maybe it's just in my surroundings, but people DO care about the inside of cars, motorcycles, cellphones, dishwashers, mp3's, and heck even consoles, but when it comes to a simple graphics card...

In my experience, most of that kind of people ask the seller which hardware to get in the pricepoint and TBH I doubt any seller would recomend a slightly more pricey GTS over a 9800GT, because they probably want to get rid of 9800GT stock first. That's what my boss wanted me to do anyway, way before G80 was out and all this rebadging. When that meant to reccomend a 6800GT over a 7600GT. I never did, obviously, always recomended best bang for the buck, but the guidelines were clear.

[newtekie1]

And even more so, there is what is right for the company, and what is morally right. Those two things aren't always the same.

Obviously, moving older, more expensive stock is better for the company. I know when I worked for Best Buy, which was only for a short time because what was morally right was rarely what Best Buy considered right for the company, they didn't care. You would always try to sell them the most expensive card possible. If they already had a 9800GT, and could only afford to upgrade to a GTS240, then you sell them the GTS240 like it blows the 9800GT out of the water. I couldn't do that, I had to inform the customer, but a lot of other employees wouldn't. They would sell them the same card over and over gain, just to make the money.

Morals play a big part in situations like this. Of course, sometimes the person selling the stuff doesn't know any better either...