Has Israel Gone Stark Raving Mad???

[CyberDruid]

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss...l_palestinians

They just bombed the UN headquarters, shelled a hospital and a Foreign Press Office and shot up another Press Office.

At the beginning of the Gaza incursion I had read that 3 THREE 3 Israelis had been killed by Hamas' rockets. In the first day I think Israeli forces killed 300 Gaza Civilians and 13 of their own troops by "friendly fire".

They quadrupled the number of Israelis killed. This makes no sense.

I mean if the whole premise is to stop Israelis from dying. Which I doubt is the real premise.

What I see here is genocide. I don't think they will stop untill they have killed every Palestinian.

Second question: at what point will the US finally realize Israel is not our friend...Israel is Israel's friend. They don't give a shit about US security or peace in the Middle East or stability...they are just interested in killing anyone around their state that is not an Israeli (specifically a Jewish Israeli).

It makes me sick that we continue to fuel their wars with our armaments. In layman's terms that makes us "partners in crime."

I realize this is not the popular view so please try and explain how Israel is in the right here.

[DaMulta]

Rule number 1. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 2. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 3. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 4. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 5. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 6. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 7. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 8. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 9. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 10. Don't @$%@% with Israel!
Rule number 11. Don't ask questions!!!!!!!!!!

[CyberDruid]

IMO they are nothing more than our PitBull...off the chain

[Katanai]

I dunno man, I honestly have nothing against them. But sometimes I can't really understand them...

... I mean, what are they trying to prove with this?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by CyberDruid

IMO they are nothing more than our PitBull...off the chain

They are hardly "off the chain". What people don't seem to understand or want to admit is Hamas started this fight. Israel is just finishing it. Hamas fired the first shots. Bottom line. F#%K with the bull and you get the horn.

Originally Posted by CyberDruid

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss...l_palestinians

They just bombed the UN headquarters, shelled a hospital and a Foreign Press Office and shot up another Press Office.

At the beginning of the Gaza incursion I had read that 3 THREE 3 Israelis had been killed by Hamas' rockets. In the first day I think Israeli forces killed 300 Gaza Civilians and 13 of their own troops by "friendly fire".

They quadrupled the number of Israelis killed. This makes no sense.

I mean if the whole premise is to stop Israelis from dying. Which I doubt is the real premise.

What I see here is genocide. I don't think they will stop untill they have killed every Palestinian.

Hmm genocide? You better look that word up. Egypt doesn't even like Hamas. Hamas runs Palestine via terror. They were "voted" in and continue to attack Israel. Its just when Israel responds they do it with effective force. Also you have to understand the Palestinians that are not in Gaza are sick of Hama. They are sick of fighting. There economy was on the upswing until Hamas started firing rockets. So how is Israel right you ask? Its better if you ask how they are wrong.

[Altered]

Lets see 8 yrs of random rockets flying into your country. Hmm yup I would think that was pretty damn tolerant. They had treaties and other times work arounds but it was never good enough. If this was happening on your mountain for 8 yrs even if it was killing a minimum of people how long are you going to try and let it go. Somewhere don't you have to say enough is enough or are you going to wait for a rocket to actually hit a highly populated area. Its not a crime if the people in the valley below your mountain are attacking you and you go to try and put a end to it. Israelis retaliated and Hamas is praying people like you see it the way you do. Oh its a powerful nation attacking little old me.
Its war and accidents happen FF etc its part of it.
The sad part is what the whole fight is over.

The mountain thing came into play since your location says Location: On top of a mountain

[CyberDruid]

I appreciate the insights. I've followed the history of the region.

What I think people don't understand is that the expansion of the Israeli territory into areas that have been farmed/lived in traditionally (thousands of years?) is the original cause of the turmoil that has pretty much been going on for decades.

If I decided I needed to spread out because my family was growing and started building and taking food and game and harvesting crops from my neighbors...people that had been born there, had generations of land ownership behind them...how do you think they would respond?

Even if my ever expanding family was well-armed and backed up by the local county with ammo and info they would have to be at constant war with the surrounding "good old boys" that had no doubt organized and begun to strategize and so forth.

Just using analogies similar to your replies to try and show there are always two sides to a coin.

[lemonadesoda]

Deliberate attack on civilians and humanitarian supplies and hospitals. The use of banned weapons against civilians. IMO, that is what war crimes are made of. IRRESPECTIVE of who is to "blame" for the escalation and invasion , (depending on how many wks you go back, it is one side or the other, go back a few more weeks or years and its the other side... etc. etc.)

If war crimes are not pursued against certain Israeli politicians/generals then I guess it's one law for some, and another for the others. That will look REALLY bad given what the UN, and the US, had laid down as the precedent for international law tribunals over the last few decades.

"Social conscience" is doing a major U-turn in Europe. This really has been a very foolish campaign by its leaders.

[Exavier]

I think that both parties are in the wrong - too much innocent blood has been shed.
I would think both cannot be trusted; civilian casualties are hardly 'costs of war'.
: Lemonade sums it up perfectly above.

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

They are hardly "off the chain". What people don't seem to understand or want to admit is Hamas started this fight. Israel is just finishing it. Hamas fired the first shots. Bottom line. F#%K with the bull and you get the horn.

You know where and when Israel became a country? You think "Hamas" started this fight? You need a lesson in history.


Letting raging Jews ransack and conquer Palestine after WWII didnt solve anything. Forming a country in one day didn't solve anything. Giving Israel $10 billion/year to "protect" themselves didn't solve anything.

Please learn how and why Israel was formed before commenting on anything related to this topic.

@ DaMulta you forgot rule # 11

11) Dont ask questions.

Honestly I agree, both sides are wrong. An eye for an eye...

[DaMulta]

Originally Posted by lemonadesoda

Deliberate attack on civilians and humanitarian supplies and hospitals. The use of banned weapons against civilians. IMO, that is what war crimes are made of. IRRESPECTIVE of who is to "blame" for the escalation and invasion , (depending on how many wks you go back, it is one side or the other, go back a few more weeks or years and its the other side... etc. etc.)

If war crimes are not pursued against certain Israeli politicians/generals then I guess it's one law for some, and another for the others. That will look REALLY bad given what the UN, and the US, had laid down as the precedent for international law tribunals over the last few decades.

"Social conscience" is doing a major U-turn in Europe. This really has been a very foolish campaign by its leaders.

Another for the others is what it is here in good olds of USA, and that's saying what it is for sure.

[B1gg3stN00b]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

They are hardly "off the chain". What people don't seem to understand or want to admit is Hamas started this fight. Israel is just finishing it. Hamas fired the first shots. Bottom line. F#%K with the bull and you get the horn.



Hmm genocide? You better look that word up. Egypt doesn't even like Hamas. Hamas runs Palestine via terror. They were "voted" in and continue to attack Israel. Its just when Israel responds they do it with effective force. Also you have to understand the Palestinians that are not in Gaza are sick of Hama. They are sick of fighting. There economy was on the upswing until Hamas started firing rockets. So how is Israel right you ask? Its better if you ask how they are wrong.

I think Israel started this when they established themselves on Muslim holy ground in the first place.

...And don't provide anything like "THE JEWS WERE THERE FIRST".

I thought after two World Wars we'd be beyond silliness like the crusades.

[Thermopylae_480]

Israel is creating a whole new generation of children without mothers, fathers, brothers or sisters. These are the things terrorists are made of. People in poverty stricken regions lacking in education and scarred by a traumatic event at young age. Adopted by a terrorist organization that offers them a sense of the family they lost and opportunity for revenge against those who "wronged" them. You must be careful with the application of indiscriminate force, or you'll create a generation of enemies.

[SK-1]

I am not very informed on the subject but I have read that the Palestine people were offered like 90% of the land they wanted, but turned it down.

If this is true, then I think the question of who really wants peace is answered.

[TheMailMan78]

Hmm so when was Palestine established? Oh I know at the EXACT same time Israel was. And why does the UN recognize Israel as a country if it was "illegally" established? The Jews were "given" Israel after WW2 because they were the majority in the region. Palestine was formed at the exact same time to help establish peace in the region with the Jews. Jews have been there as long as the Arabs. Please don't act as if there was no conflict before Israel was formed.

You guys make it seem like there were nothing but peace loving Arabs in the country of Palestine and all of a sudden the "war loving" Jews came down after WW2 and took their land. It just didn't even begin to happen like that. The influx of Jews to the area after WW2 was just that. An influx. Jews were ALREADY there! Some extremist got all freaked out they were outnumbered and started picking fights. To calm this Europe divided the areas into "states" and Israel was formed AND Palestine. This is a pretty simple break down but you get the idea. The bottom line is this is just old hatred with new weapons. No one is innocent. Just better funded. You want the fighting to stop? Tell Hamas to join the 21st century. They give Muslims a bad name.

From Wiki: The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine or United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 was a plan approved by the General Assembly on November 29, 1947[1] to terminate the British Mandate of Palestine by August 1, 1948, and facilitate the creation of two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The plan was approved by a vote of 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions. On March 5, 1948, the United Nations Security Council reached an impasse when it refused to pass a resolution which would have accepted the partition plan as a basis for Security Council action.[2] The United States subsequently recommended a temporary UN trusteeship for Palestine "without prejudice to the character of the eventual political settlement", and the Security Council voted to send the matter back to the General Assembly for further deliberation.[3] The General Assembly decided to appoint a Mediator, and relieved their Palestine Commission from any further exercise of responsibility under resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.[4] Source

Originally Posted by Thermopylae_480

Israel is creating a whole new generation of children without mothers, fathers, brothers or sisters. These are the things terrorists are made of. People in poverty stricken regions lacking in education and scarred by a traumatic event at young age. Adopted by a terrorist organization that offers them a sense of the family they lost and opportunity for revenge against those who "wronged" them. You must be careful with the application of indiscriminate force, or you'll create a generation of enemies.

I agree fully. Problem is its just the nature of man. There is no solution except extinction. Sadly both parties at war here no nothing but war at this point. It will never end I'm afraid. Unless one submits and that hasn't happen in recorded history. Depressing if you really think about it.

[Thermopylae_480]

I never said Palestine was innocent, just that Israel needs to be more careful with indiscriminate use of power. In the long term they'll create more enemies, and in the short term alienate the global community.

[thoughtdisorder]

I'm not really sure how to feel about the current situation in Gaza. I agree with many of the views expressed above that differ in opinion. The entire region is a puzzle that has not been solved for many moons and probably won't for many more.

What I do know is this, there are elections looming for Israel in February and I cannot help but to think once again politics plays a roll in the current turmoil. The timing seems "suspect" to say the least.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...t_10647592.htm

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by Thermopylae_480

I never said Palestine was innocent, just that Israel needs to be more careful with indiscriminate use of power. In the long term they'll create more enemies, and in the short term alienate the global community.

I concur. I'm not so sure this isn't a knee jerk reaction on Israelis part to these latest rocket attacks by Hamas. Whatever the case is its to late now.

[TRIPTEX_CAN]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Hmm so when was Palestine established? Oh I know at the EXACT same time Israel was. And why does the UN recognize Israel as a country if it was "illegally" established? The Jews were "given" Israel after WW2 because they were the majority in the region. Palestine was formed at the exact same time to help establish peace in the region with the Jews. Jews have been there as long as the Arabs. Please don't act as if there was no conflict before Israel was formed.

You guys make it seem like there were nothing but peace loving Arabs in the country of Palestine and all of a sudden the "war loving" Jews came down after WW2 and took their land. It just didn't even begin to happen like that. The influx of Jews to the area after WW2 was just that. An influx. Jews were ALREADY there! Some extremist got all freaked out they were outnumbered and started picking fights. To calm this Europe divided the areas into "states" and Israel was formed AND Palestine. This is a pretty simple break down but you get the idea. The bottom line is this is just old hatred with new weapons. No one is innocent. Just better funded. You want the fighting to stop? Tell Hamas to join the 21st century. They give Muslims a bad name.

From Wiki: The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine or United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 was a plan approved by the General Assembly on November 29, 1947[1] to terminate the British Mandate of Palestine by August 1, 1948, and facilitate the creation of two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The plan was approved by a vote of 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions. On March 5, 1948, the United Nations Security Council reached an impasse when it refused to pass a resolution which would have accepted the partition plan as a basis for Security Council action.[2] The United States subsequently recommended a temporary UN trusteeship for Palestine "without prejudice to the character of the eventual political settlement", and the Security Council voted to send the matter back to the General Assembly for further deliberation.[3] The General Assembly decided to appoint a Mediator, and relieved their Palestine Commission from any further exercise of responsibility under resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.[4] Source



I agree fully. Problem is its just the nature of man. There is no solution except extinction. Sadly both parties at war here no nothing but war at this point. It will never end I'm afraid. Unless one submits and that hasn't happen in recorded history. Depressing if you really think about it.

I hear what your saying but at the same time offering a people the option of either sharing their country or losing it completely didn't sound like fun either way. (personally I like sharing)

Seriously though none of us were there, wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and what you describe and an "Influx" had been portrayed to me as a complete ransack and pillage/ hostile take over.

I say they should have given the Jews 1/2 of Canada... we're not using it.

[CyberDruid]

And it would be a lot closer to NY and FL

[Morgoth]

let them fight there not that important for us

[El Fiendo]

Um, which half of Canada? The barren wasteland up north (I'd be fine with that but I don't think they would be) or the west (opposite of your east). I'll so civil war your a** if you think I'd give up my west. In fact, I'd holy war your face off.

[HookeyStreet]

I suppose this is just more bollox over religion?

[DRDNA]

Israel ...being surrounded by enemies and small has to be fierce ! I am behind Israel in most all they do! I am glad they do NOT submit to unfair UN requests !!! Israel shall rain fire onto those that appose them!

Sorry to those I may have offended.

[Steevo]

At the end, all false religion will be destroyed, the nations and the merchants will turn on her, and after her destruction they will say too bad for her.


The catalyst for this is coming in place now. These people fulfilling prophesy and they still disagree that it is happening.