Has Israel Gone Stark Raving Mad???

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Well Hamas needs to be gone. Not the Palistinians. Hamas is bringing this upon its own people. Its pretty clear who the "evil" one is.

Hamas is the elected majority leadership of the Palestinian territories: they are one in the same.

Originally Posted by dalekdukesboy

Hamas is a terrorist organization period...how the hell can you even compare Israel as a nation to a terrorist organization...that is just absurd and irresponsible as far as I'm concerned.

Most of the Middle East considers the USA a terrorist for being in Iraq and Afghanistan. Just because one country pins that label on another doesn't make it true; they're probably saying the exact same thing of you.

Remember this phrase well: "There is no such thing as right or wrong, only consequences."

Israel is only right because they have bigger guns...

But are they really right?


I think they are both wrong. Palestine has always been the one at a disadvantage (for crying out loud, they are broken into two). I think the only long term solution is similar to that of Iraq: one government where both voices of the majority are heard. This is what happens when countries are broken apart.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Hamas is the elected leadership of Palistine: they are one in the same.

Not even close my friend. Iv been to Gaza. Hamas isn't the same as the people they "represent". Castro is elected every year but that doesn't mean he represents the people does he? No hes a F&$KING dictator. However they have "elected" him for 40 plus years

[B1gg3stN00b]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

All abroad the Bash America Express! All haters move to the front. All sissies move to the back. We will be serving bullshit at lunch.

I live in America, buddy. I reserve my right to bash this country as I please.

I also acknowledge your right to disagree, however, if you can't see that we've been going down a horribly slippery slope for the last 50-100 years, you're a nutjob.




Also, last I checked Fidel was no longer head of Cuba.

...And I'm curious, what part of Gaza did you visit?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by B1gg3stN00b

I live in America, buddy. I reserve my right to bash this country as I please.

I also acknowledge your right to disagree, however, if you can't see that we've been going down a horribly slippery slope for the last 50-100 years, you're a nutjob.




Also, last I checked Fidel was no longer head of Cuba.

...And I'm curious, what part of Gaza did you visit?

Oh yeah we really dropped the ball in WW2. Oh sure Castro stepped down and his brother was "elected" However Fidel still lives in the presidential mansion.

I was near Rafah. Just off of the boarder of Egypt.

[B1gg3stN00b]

It depends on what level you analyze the regression of our country, but yeah, pretty much.

[dalekdukesboy]

I live in America, buddy. I reserve my right to bash this country as I please.

I also acknowledge your right to disagree, however, if you can't see that we've been going down a horribly slippery slope for the last 50-100 years, you're a nutjob.




Also, last I checked Fidel was no longer head of Cuba.

...And I'm curious, what part of Gaza did you visit?


I'll say it again, hamas is a terrorist organization and is recognized as such and Israel and certainly the United States of America is the greatest nation on earth, yes flawed, but still the greatest and our freedom from worry provided by our "terrorist" military as you'd probably see it gives you the right to sit back in your comfy chair safe from any worry of being blown up certainly (unlike if you lived in the middle east) and type anything you'd like into your nice pc however stupid and irreverant it is at the expense of the country that is providing you with the very freedom to say whatever the heck you want...

[mtosev]

When Saddam was in power they had a presidential election he got "only" 100% of the vote. LoL.

Linky: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2331951.stm

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Not even close my friend. Iv been to Gaza. Hamas isn't the same as the people they "represent". Castro is elected every year but that doesn't mean he represents the people does he? No hes a F&$KING dictator. However they have "elected" him for 40 plus years

Obama got elected and he doesn't represent me--still, majority rules with rights of the minority.

Dictators aren't elected or they wouldn't be dictators. Any and all elections held by dicators are for the sole purpose of keeping the populous content (as in, preventing rebellion). It is merely a tool in the dictators drawer to stay in power.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Any and all elections held by dicators are for the sole purpose of keeping the populous content (as in, preventing rebellion). It is merely a tool in the dictators drawer to stay in power.

As it is with Hamas.

[FordGT90Concept]

I wouldn't call the Palestinian Parliament a dictatorship. It is a semi-presidential republic in function.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I wouldn't call the Palestinian Parliament a dictatorship.

Its not. The people that currently occupy it are terrorists however. Think of it this way. Lets say a bunch of skin head neo Nazis killed and intimidated thier way into congress and the white house. Every year they held elections so the rest of the world think we are a democracy when in reality we the people are prisoners in our own homes.

Now all of a sudden the skin heads decide they don't want to share north America with Canada and start firing rockets into their cities. Canada responds by nuking NY.

Does this make it a little more clear?

[Mussels]

i want to add a thanks to everyone, you've managed to bring this conversation back to civility.

My personal comment:

1.Group A kills someone from group B.
2.group B kills someone from group A, because of 1.
3. group A kills someone from group B, because of 2.
4. Repeat.

These conflicts will never end, so long as these people are trapped into an 'us and them' mentality.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Its not. The people that currently occupy it are terrorists however. Think of it this way. Lets say a bunch of skin head neo Nazis killed and intimidated thier way into congress and the white house. Every year they held elections so the rest of the world think we are a democracy when in reality we the people are prisoners in our own homes.

Now all of a sudden the skin heads decide they don't want to share north America with Canada and start firing rockets into their cities. Canada responds by nuking NY.

Does this make it a little more clear?

Don't you think other members of Congress would cry foul? Look at what happened to Nixon when he got greedy.

People expect results from an election. If they don't get results, they rebel, leave, or bend over and take it. We find out if a republic has dictator rule from people that leave the country: the consistent stories of family members leaving permanently, guards saying they were required to act inhumanely by superiors, the leadership practically being turned into a religion, etc. I have yet to see any indication that the Palestine National Authority has a dictatorship-like control over the nation especially from Arab sources.


Just because some idiots found a surplus weapon in one country and launched it at another doesn't mean the government itself sanctioned the activity. In all honesty, that is how third-party countries (like USA) start wars among two other countries. How do we know that Iran didn't have a hand in that attack? Any way you look at it, Israel over-reacted again. Now Israel feels they are obligated to strip search the Gaza Strip when Palestine should be trusted to do it themselves. The leash on Israel needs to replaced with a noose and UN needs to be more proactive on policing (perform the strip search, per-say) should one country not trust another to do it themselves.

[mtosev]

Originally Posted by Mussels

i want to add a thanks to everyone, you've managed to bring this conversation back to civility.

My personal comment:

1.Group A kills someone from group B.
2.group B kills someone from group A, because of 1.
3. group A kills someone from group B, because of 2.
4. Repeat.

These conflicts will never end, so long as these people are trapped into an 'us and them' mentality.

that's human nature. 80-90% ppl are like that.

[ckydmk]

This will never end because Isreal still occupies land in the West bank and Gaza. Isreal occupies this land illegally, and the entire world know is. Yet nobody does anything about it, why?? because their no. 1 allie iy the US

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Don't you think other members of Congress would cry foul? Look at what happened to Nixon when he got greedy.

People expect results from an election. If they don't get results, they rebel, leave, or bend over and take it. We find out if a republic has dictator rule from people that leave the country: the consistent stories of family members leaving permanently, guards saying they were required to act inhumanely by superiors, the leadership practically being turned into a religion, etc. I have yet to see any indication that the Palestine National Authority has a dictatorship-like control over the nation especially from Arab sources.


Just because some idiots found a surplus weapon in one country and launched it at another doesn't mean the government itself sanctioned the activity. In all honesty, that is how third-party countries (like USA) start wars among two other countries. How do we know that Iran didn't have a hand in that attack? Any way you look at it, Israel over-reacted again. Now Israel feels they are obligated to strip search the Gaza Strip when Palestine should be trusted to do it themselves. The leash on Israel needs to replaced with a noose and UN needs to be more proactive on policing (perform the strip search, per-say) should one country not trust another to do it themselves.

Not if the other members of congress were "elected" by the enforcing hand. There is no indication that they have a dictator like control because very few media sources are even allowed to operate in parts of Gaza. Also you have to understand Arab culture. You're looking at the situation as a Westerner. Hamas and its supporters still talk about the defeated crusaders like it was yesterday. Arab culture doesn't react to things the same way we western cultures do. They live and die by their traditions. Simply leaving you're home isn't an option. Protesting isn't an option. Rebel without religious support is suicide for you and all of your kin. Hamas rules via fear and intimidation. I don't expect you to understand but there is more to this than most realize.

As for putting a "nose" on Israel be careful what you wish for. We need Israel more than you know. They provide us with a very strategic operating platform in that area of the world. Ending them would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also you don't want the UN to become to overbearing. I personally don't want to live to see a one world order. Do you?

Originally Posted by ckydmk

This will never end because Isreal still occupies land in the West bank and Gaza. Isreal occupies this land illegally, and the entire world know is. Yet nobody does anything about it, why?? because their no. 1 allie iy the US

Wow you couldn't be more wrong. However nice fishing expedition!

[Thermopylae_480]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Don't you think other members of Congress would cry foul? Look at what happened to Nixon when he got greedy.

People expect results from an election. If they don't get results, they rebel, leave, or bend over and take it. We find out if a republic has dictator rule from people that leave the country: the consistent stories of family members leaving permanently, guards saying they were required to act inhumanely by superiors, the leadership practically being turned into a religion, etc. I have yet to see any indication that the Palestine National Authority has a dictatorship-like control over the nation especially from Arab sources.

The U.S. could easily become a dictatorship. It takes a very simple set of circumstances to make a republic become a dictatorship with the consent of the people. In moments of extreme national crisis people are extremely susceptible to the ideas of charismatic leaders. In fact, with our ailing economy which has yet to see it's low point, the proper event at the proper time could easily allow for the installation of a dictator. With the fear of terrorism so deeply impeded in the public's psyche the proper terrorist attack at the correct time would be ideal. Economic crisis, and external threat are how Hitler and Caesar were able to dissolve their respective representative bodies. Just think of how many people in the U.S. are willing to sacrifice their freedom for security. Those people wouldn't protest much if a dictator promised to protect them in the case of a national emergency.

[DRDNA]

Originally Posted by ckydmk

because their no. 1 allie iy the US

We might be a little tight on monies these days but we in the US still have big BALLS,maybe not as big as the Jews but I say the US + Israel + United Kingdom = One one unstoppable force that none can defeat !

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

As for putting a "nose" on Israel be careful what you wish for. We need Israel more than you know. They provide us with a very strategic operating platform in that area of the world. Ending them would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Also you don't want the UN to become to overbearing. I personally don't want to live to see a one world order. Do you?

Israel is a "western state" in an "eastern world." The "west" has a nasty habit of making sure it stays that way. Honestly, I think Israel is 99% of the problem here. The rest of the Middle East views them as a thorn in their ass. Most are smart enough to not to try to do anything about it because they'll end up like Iraq.

What is happening there is the equivalent of Great Britain imposing that the State of Iowa be a Mexican territory. Had the "west" not stepped up and defended Israel so many times in the past, Israel would be an Arab state like the rest of them. It broods instability in the region.


What strategic operating platform? USA doesn't have any major bases in Israel. We have several in Saudi Arabia and Turkey. We also have many major bases in Iraq. Whenever someone gets bombed in the Middle East, they usually come from the sea (aircraft carrier and missile platforms), USA (24+ hour mission), Germany, or Saudi Arabia. We're smart enough to know that if we put a base in Israel, we'll spend a crapload of resources protecting it. Put it in a more stable country like Saudi Arabia, something big would have to be going down to jeopardize the base.

The only USA military installation (small one at that with only 120 people) in all of Israel is an anti-missile system.

Originally Posted by Thermopylae_480

The U.S. could easily become a dictatorship. It takes a very simple set of circumstances to make a republic become a dictatorship with the consent of the people. In moments of extreme national crisis people are extremely susceptible to the ideas of charismatic leaders. In fact, with our ailing economy which has yet to see it's low point, the proper event at the proper time could easily allow for the installation of a dictator. With the fear of terrorism so deeply impeded in the public's psyche the proper terrorist attack at the correct time would be ideal. Economic crisis, and external threat are how Hitler and Caesar were able to dissolve their respective representative bodies. Just think of how many people in the U.S. are willing to sacrifice their freedom for security. Those people wouldn't protest much if a dictator promised to protect them in the case of a national emergency.

The executive branch doesn't have enough power to ever present itself as a dictatorship. Checks and balances make it impossible. Simply put, there's way too many instituations of government that would have to systematically collapse for a dictatorship to take hold.

[Morgoth]

Originally Posted by DRDNA

We might be a little tight on monies these days but we in the US still have big BALLS,maybe not as big as the Jews but I say the US + Israel + United Kingdom = One one unstoppable force that none can defeat !

yea right until europe unites as 1 fighting force like waffen ss did

[B1gg3stN00b]

But what business does the US have operating in the middle east in the first place?

I second the "relocate the Jews" part.

Because if we don't, someday the middle eastern powers will.

[btarunr]

Originally Posted by B1gg3stN00b

But what business does the US have operating in the middle east in the first place?

Cheap oil.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by B1gg3stN00b

But what business does the US have operating in the middle east in the first place?

I second the "relocate the Jews" part.

Because if we don't, someday the middle eastern powers will.

Look up "The six day war" and reanalyze that comment.

[SystemViper]

Originally Posted by dalekdukesboy

I live in America, the United States of America is the greatest nation on earth, yes flawed, but still the greatest and our freedom is second to none...

Amen, I love my country! oh backl to my PC's but had to say that!

Originally Posted by btarunr

Cheap oil.

ahhhhh but now we call that national security!

[B1gg3stN00b]

Originally Posted by btarunr

Cheap oil.

It's only become more expensive, and even now it's more than it was before this mess started.

Also, the 6 day war was a Western power backed Israel against highly unadvanced opposition.

When the 3rd or 2nd world, however you see North Africa/the Middle East develops, it likely would not be so easy. If anything it would be a severe kick in the nuts in the least.