IDF soldiers admit murder

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by ghost101

^^^^^^

Lebanon has no border to the gaza strip. Only Egypt does and Egypt doesn't like the palestinians and therefore no chance of any collusion. I have no idea where you are coming to the conclusion the US = Hezbollah. I didn't realise Hezbollah gave Hamas even $10m a year.

We don't boarder Isreal ether do we? By your logic we don't support Isreal.

[ghost101]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

We don't boarder Isreal ether do we? By your logic we don't support Isreal.

Yeh because hezbollah can use their rubbish planes to deliver guns to Hamas over heavily guarded airspace?

Any such restrictions on the US?

You should really think through your arguments. You do realise that Hezbollah is a relatively tiny group with minor funds?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by ghost101

Yeh because hezbollah can use their rubbish planes to deliver guns to Hamas over heavily guarded airspace?

Any such restrictions on the US?

You should really think through your arguments. You do realise that Hezbollah is a relatively tiny froup with minor funds?

Damn your close minded. Support comes in all forms. Money is its main support. As for Hezbollah being a small group you better read some before we continue this "debate".

Link

[ghost101]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Damn your close minded. Support comes in all forms. Money is its main support. As for Hezbollah being a small group you better read some before we continue this "debate".

Link

Read that than. Because hezbollah are almost exclusively based in lebanon like I mentioned earlier. Hezbollah are tiny compared to pretty much any military force in the world.

If you think this actually makes them large to any extent compared to the US, you are deluded. Do you think Hezbollah can manufacture patriot missiles? F16s? Tanks? Most support for Hamas is likely to come from radical elements in Egypt itself. Also a lot of the weapons are actually from the US. When the US armed the Fatah regime so that they could actually beat Hamas, they didn't realise that when they lost the weapons would fall into Hamas' hands.

I suggest you read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Funding

[ghost101]

Besides this nonexistent funding from Hezbollah to Hamas is a huge divergence from palestinians telling Hezbollah firing non existent rockets into Israel on their behalf which you originally claimed.

In the mean time I don't see the connection between this and murders being allowed.

[TheMailMan78]

I'm sure the have no connection. No money. No training. No nothing.

From the inception of Hezbollah to the present,the elimination of the State of Israel has been one of Hezbollah's primary goals. Some translations of Hezbollah's 1985 Arabic-language manifesto state that "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated". However neither the original publication of the manifesto, nor those found on Hezbollah's website, include the statement. In an interview with the Washington Post, Nasrallah said "I am against any reconciliation with Israel. I do not even recognize the presence of a state that is called 'Israel'". In March 2009, in a speech marking the birthday of Muhammad, Nasrallah said, "As long as Hezbollah exists, it will never recognize Israel." rejecting a US precondition for dialogue.

So go on believing what you want. I've been to Isreal and to some extent to Gaza. To say there is no Hezbollah in Gaza is like saying there is no sun in the sky.

[ghost101]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

I'm sure the have no connection. No money. No training. No nothing.



So go on believing what you want. I've been to Isreal and to some extent to Gaza. To say there is no Hezbollah in Gaza is like saying there is no sun in the sky.

Again a complete change of argument. Its gone from

"Well think of Hezbollah like the U.S. Like the U.S. Isreal has no funding. Its the same as Hezbollah giving to Hamas. You blame us for Isreal and I blame Hezbollah for Hamas. "

to Hezbollah elements may exist inside Gaza. Funny. Also Israel has relatively large economy and so can fund itself. Hamas doesn't collect taxes and as mentioned in the above wiki article has a budget of $70mn.

The US should remain impartial to stop this ongoing conflict and humanitarian disaster. People will look back at this like they do in Sudan and Rwanda. But in this case a nation like the US is funding it.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by ghost101

Again a complete change of argument. Its gone from

"Well think of Hezbollah like the U.S. Like the U.S. Isreal has no funding. Its the same as Hezbollah giving to Hamas. You blame us for Isreal and I blame Hezbollah for Hamas. "

to Hezbollah elements may exist inside Gaza. Funny. Also Israel has relatively large economy and so can fund itself. Hamas doesn't collect taxes and as mentioned in the above wiki article has a budget of $70mn.

The US should remain impartial to stop this ongoing conflict and humanitarian disaster. People will look back at this like they do in Sudan and Rwanda. But in this case a nation like the US is funding it.

I never said they "may" exist inside Gaza. I know for a fact they do. My argument hasn't changed. I wish you would just admit you hate Israel so we could get this thread locked already. It was pointless flame bait to begin with. Also don't put words in my mouth.

Originally Posted by ghost101

The US should remain impartial to stop this ongoing conflict and humanitarian disaster. People will look back at this like they do in Sudan and Rwanda. But in this case a nation like the US is funding it.

Na I doubt that.

[ghost101]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

I never said they "may" exist inside Gaza. I know for a fact they do. My argument hasn't changed. I wish you would just admit you hate Israel so we could get this thread locked already. It was pointless flame bait to begin with. Also don't put words in my mouth.

Then you are claiming without evidence. I was giving you some credibility my saying "may".

Na I doubt that.

No doubt because people like you have no idea whats going on. Why Hezbollah is even in this thread I'll never know.

Again, how this allows soldiers to get away with murder I don't know. Say even Hezbollah did fund Hamas and gave them $5mn of Hamas' $70mn (hypothetical, no evidence to suggest this), then the US feels it has to give Israel $3bn a year to counteract this?

In addition, Hamas only recently gained power. The US has been giving military aid to Israel for a very long time.

[TheMailMan78]

Your right. I must confess. They have no connection at all.

No connection at all what so ever.

[ghost101]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Your right. I must confess. They have no connection at all.

No connection at all what so ever.

I said they were sypathisers (check my posts). Of course they are, no one doubts that. No evidence for direct "funding" or "weapons" support. THIS is what you claimed earlier. Googling links which confirm my previous statements won't get you anywhere.

You are a seriously poor debater who is desprately trying to modify his argument. Next time before you make such arguments, check them out.

If you had said, they sypathised with Hamas, you would have had no complaint from me. Similarly, chechen rebels, who are very far away also sympathise with palestinians. To then say they are funding them is absurd.

edit:

I see one article, mentions a FAILED smuggling operation in 2002. The article itself was written on 2005. So just goes to show how airtight the sea routes around gaza are. Israel isn't worried about that too much as its really easy to police. Its the underground tunnels to egypt which are the problem.

[TheMailMan78]

Hezbollah was also involved in the failed effort to smuggle 50 tons of weapons to Palestinian terrorists aboard the Karine-A weapons ship, which was intercepted by Israeli authorities in January 2002.

Call me what you will but facts are facts.
FYI that was a link I posted. Read.

[ghost101]

Well done. After lots of time trying to prove your unsubstantiated claim, you come up with a failed attempt.

I guess you knew of this failed attempt before your initial comment in this thread?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by ghost101

Well done. After lots of time trying to prove your unsubstantiated claim, you come up with a failed attempt.

I guess you knew of this failed attempt before your comment?

I've spent some time over there.

[Deusxmachina]

Originally Posted by ghost101

Seems to be murder for murder. The IDF needs to have proper accountability procedures before getting any US funding. Thats what I would demand anyway. After all, thats what is supposed separate an army and a terrorist force. Rules.

Terrorists are when they're on their side. Army and "freedom fighters" are when they're on our side.

[Wile E]

Blah blah blah blah. Isreal this, Palestine that.

How about this? I don't really give a shit who killed who over there. Just let me know when it's all over. kthxbye.

[Katanai]

Originally Posted by Wile E

Blah blah blah blah. Isreal this, Palestine that.

How about this? I don't really give a shit who killed who over there. Just let me know when it's all over. kthxbye.

I fear that this mindset is rather wide spread in the US...


... and the world in general.


IMO killing women, especially old women, or children makes you the worst kind of human being. It's seems that "Gods Army" is at it again, doing what they know best: the killing of innocent human beings.

[kiriakost]

Originally Posted by Katanai

I fear that this mindset is rather wide spread in the US...


... and the world in general.


IMO killing women, especially old women, or children makes you the worst kind of human being. It's seems that "Gods Army" is at it again, doing what they know best: the killing of innocent human beings.

Nop the world is against Americans and the Israeli pet ....

Thats why they do not have the balls to travel free as tourists , thats why they baptize the world as unsafe .... and many country s as terrorists .

The Americans are the terrorists ....
Thats what the 95% of Greeks believe , and me too .

If Obama did not make things right and fast .... we will get in a war soon or later ... the first that i like to shoot is mailman .. he looks to be a wild fanatic , so he will fall first .

[Katanai]

Originally Posted by kiriakost

Nop the world is against Americans and the Israeli pet ....

Thats why they do not have the balls to travel free as tourists , thats why they baptize the world as unsafe .... and many country s as terrorists .

The Americans are the terrorists ....
Thats what the 95% of Greeks believe , and me too .

If Obama did not make things right and fast .... we will get in a war soon or later ... the first that i like to shoot is mailman .. he looks to be a wild fanatic , so he will fall first .

Spoken like a true Greek. If you give me 10.000 pieces of gold, me and my men will be there too.

[kiriakost]

Not true , at Troy we fight for free ...

And we gave and a wooden horse as gift ..

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by kiriakost

Nop the world is against Americans and the Israeli pet ....

Thats why they do not have the balls to travel free as tourists , thats why they baptize the world as unsafe .... and many country s as terrorists .

The Americans are the terrorists ....
Thats what the 95% of Greeks believe , and me too .

If Obama did not make things right and fast .... we will get in a war soon or later ... the first that i like to shoot is mailman .. he looks to be a wild fanatic , so he will fall first .

Awww you and Katanai sound like a cute couple. Do you guys have a registry for the wedding?

[btarunr]

There is a need for people not to get personal in discussions such as this. If you aren't able to carry forward a discussion without insulting each other, just ask, we can have this thread closed.

We have no problems at all, if you choose an informal tone with your posts. However, learn to draw a line between informality and vocal anarchy. The latter is usually not welcome.

[Katanai]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Awww you and Katanai sound like a cute couple. Do you guys have a registry for the wedding?

Why are you not banned already? Made some new accounts and voted for yourself?

Anyway, to keep things on tracks, this is not the first time the IDF has acted like this, Sabra and Shatila springs to mind...

[KieranD]

Im not morally adjust to the war in the middle east because i think Israel will do a lot of damage to innocent people but Israel is within its rights to defend itself from attacks, it dosnt matter if Israel is a big bully or that it dosnt want Palestine to be a separate nation, its being attacked when it wasnt doing anything there for it has rights to go in and occupy untill they stop.

Its just that one side wants to rule over the other side and frankly Israel is way to powerful for Palestine to do anything about that. They need to live seperatly and deal with it. Like Ireland has done, years ago Ireland wanted home rule before world war 1 and we were going to give them that, technicaly they woudl be part of the Uk but still be able to govern themselves, we nevr gota round to giving them that because we were busy fighting a war and then to busy rebuilding europe to give them notice. So they got mad and broke free from the UK we kept some county and they say we have no right to claim these county thus they kept fightig for a unified Ireland, the north wanted to stay in the UK so they kept fighting.

Eventually people just got fed up and decided to stay separate and work something out, a northern Irish assembly was created and they have some devolved powers.

Palestine and Isreal is going to have to be 2 separate nations. Ones claim over territory is facile because Palestine will fight till every citizen has died, Israel will fight till Palestine gives up which will never happen. You see Palestine giving aid to militants instead of helping their children they decide to build up secret tunnels in times of peace, build up and spend foreign and aid on weapons knowing they will attack again.

EDIT: both sides are idiots but if Palestine don't drop it soon they wont be able to be a separate nation they will have went to far, they will all be obliterated eventually if they continue to aggravate Isreal who has a real army not some civilians and militants from neighbouring sympathiser Arabic nations.

Im not condoning Isreals actions but come on they have rights to defend themselves.

Although wasnt it Isreal who stole their land back all those years ago to start this mess?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by Katanai

Why are you not banned already? Made some new accounts and voted for yourself?

Anyway, to keep things on tracks, this is not the first time the IDF has acted like this, Sabra and Shatila springs to mind...

Nope. Unlike some I'm honest. If I were voted off I would leave. However the thread was locked so I stay. I know you had your hopes up so high too. Better luck next time.