HD4350, a PCI-E x1 Slot and a Dremel (Tons of Pics Warning).

Yukikaze · Mar 21, 2009, 10:07 AM

First, a public service announcement:

WARNING:
There is almost no room for error and you need a very steady hand with a Dremel (Or more professional tooling) to get this done. If someone attempts this and kills their card, I take no responsibility. Be careful with taking power tools to your video cards

Don't do this to a piece of hardware you'll miss if something goes wrong. Killing it is real easy.

And now we return to our scheduled report:

With the possible acquisition of a new TV and with the wish for a third monitor in any case, the need arose for a second video card in my system to drive that display. Since I did not want to take up the second PCI-E x16 slot in my system, and since PCI video cards are relatively expensive (and nearly impossible to find here locally), I decided to mod a Sapphire HD4350 (availiable everywhere here and el cheapo) to use a PCI-E x1 slot. I did not want to cut the slot on the motherboard (to make it open-ended), since the motherboard cost me plenty and is still under warranty, whereas the card was cheap.

In the process, I decided to also benchmark the effects of the HD4350 being run at full bandwidth, at PCI-E 2.0 x1 and PCI-E x1. Considering it is a weakling of a card, I thought the bandwidth might not matter, but as we shall see shortly, I was wrong. No issue for me, I only use it to drive two more monitors, but interesting to see nonetheless.

The testing system is my main rig in my system specs tab (The leftmost one in the list) and the benchmarks are ran were 3DMark06, 3DMark Vantage and Crysis at 1680x1050 on Low settings.

Here's the victim's box:

And here is the victim from the front:

And from the rear:

And how small it is next to my HD4870X2:

To check whether I am going to cut off the right number of connectors, I first tested the card with some of the golden fingers taped over. The card looked like this with most of the connectors covered:

And here's the back of it:

Dismemberment !

And here it is in the computer for testing:

And here it is sitting above my HD4870X2 (Temps on both are alright this way):

Success !

Okay, I promised some benchmarks, so here they are:
Crysis was benchmarked by running through the early game (Contact) until the GPS jammer on the beach (Including taking it out and watching the fireworks) and recording the FPS with FRAPS. 3DMV and 3DM06 were run on their defaults. The card was OC'ed to the maximum CCC Overdrive would allow it just for the heck of it.

First, the card running at half-full bandwidth. It comes up at PCI-E 2.0 x8 in GPU-Z since that's what the slots on the mATX DFI P45 are wired as, but this shouldn't have any effect on its performance - Even far more powerful cards do not mind the PCI-E 2.0 x8 bandwidth.

Crysis:
Min: 7
Avg: 16.559
Max: 24

3DMark06:

3DMark Vantage:

Now, the card running at the PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot in the pre-cut testing, taped over to reveal only one PCI-E lane. Resulting bandwidth is a single PCI-E 2.0 lane.

Crysis:
Min: 7
Avg: 15.009
Max: 23

3DMark06:

3DMark Vantage:

Finally, the chopped down card in the PCI-Ex1 slot.

Crysis:
Min: 6
Avg: 13.633
Max: 21

3DMark06:

3DMark Vantage:

As you can see, getting chopped down to a single PCI-E lane had an effect on the card's performance, with the biggest drop occurring in 3DMark06.

I hope this is informative and of use to someone. I had tons of fun doing it and was a little surprised I did not kill it in the process

exon1 · Mar 21, 2009, 10:45 AM

what the... O_o'

Error 404 · Mar 21, 2009, 11:04 AM

Nice work, I wonder if I could do this with an 8400 GS and have me a physics card!
By removing the majority of the PCI-E slot, does that reduce the electrical power available to the card, or is that supplied through the second tab of PCI-E lanes?

KainXS · Mar 22, 2009, 12:19 PM

very nice, props man

alexp999 · Mar 22, 2009, 12:21 PM

Wouldnt it have been better to cut the mobo slot or something?

Yukikaze · Mar 22, 2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexp999

Wouldnt it have been better to cut the mobo slot or something?

The video card costs about a fifth of the price of the board, so nope, cutting the mobo was not the better option. I did not want to void the warranty.

alexp999 · Mar 22, 2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukikaze

The video card costs about a fifth of the price of the board, so nope, cutting the mobo was not the better option. I did not want to void the warranty.

Fair enough

I still cant work out why there is a difference between taped pins and cut off pins tho.

Yukikaze · Mar 22, 2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexp999

Fair enough

I still cant work out why there is a difference between taped pins and cut off pins tho.

The PCI-E x16 slots on my mobo are PCI-E 2.0, while AFAIK, the PCI-E x1 slot is PCI-E 1.x, hence the difference in performance depending on where the card sits.

1Kurgan1 · Mar 22, 2009, 08:33 PM

Thats pretty darn cool! I didn't even know that PCI-E 2.0 cards would work in a 1X slot. I assume this is only for lower end cards?

KainXS · Mar 22, 2009, 08:41 PM

this would work on any pci-e card i guess but running this on any card over a 4650 might be near murder lol

still i might try this when i get a dedicated physx card for my older pc

1Kurgan1 · Mar 22, 2009, 10:08 PM

Do this to my 4870x2, lol!

Xazax · Mar 23, 2009, 01:08 AM

Why didnt you just buy the 9500GT x1 PCI-E that just came out lawlz

newtekie1 · Mar 23, 2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Error 404

Nice work, I wonder if I could do this with an 8400 GS and have me a physics card!
By removing the majority of the PCI-E slot, does that reduce the electrical power available to the card, or is that supplied through the second tab of PCI-E lanes?

All the power to the card is supplied by the small seperate set of pins on the connector. Every card gets the same amount of power regardless of how many lanes they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazax

Why didnt you just buy the 9500GT x1 PCI-E that just came out lawlz

It sounds like he was looking for a local solution that was as cheap as possible. The 9500GT would have cost more to buy. Plus, he is running Vista, which means ATi+nVidia wouldn't work.

Yukikaze · Mar 23, 2009, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

It sounds like he was looking for a local solution that was as cheap as possible. The 9500GT would have cost more to buy. Plus, he is running Vista, which means ATi+nVidia wouldn't work.

Correct on both. PCI-E x1 cards are non-existent over here (Except for Quadros which cost more than my mobo), and the only PCI video cards here are expensive as heck, and also nVidia, so it wouldn't work for me anyway.

Mussels · Mar 23, 2009, 07:40 AM

i've done this before, but what i did was cut the slot out, not the card!

As is obvious from the pics, 1x slots are only 1.0, not 2.0

EnglishLion · Mar 23, 2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukikaze

The PCI-E x16 slots on my mobo are PCI-E 2.0, while AFAIK, the PCI-E x1 slot is PCI-E 1.x, hence the difference in performance depending on where the card sits.

So the cut down card in the x16 slot should reach ~the same benchmark scores as the tapped over card then?

Mussels · Mar 23, 2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLion

So the cut down card in the x16 slot should reach ~the same benchmark scores as the tapped over card then?

yeah thats the point i was trying to make a few posts ago.

Rarely is anything other than the one (or two) main PCI-E slots PCI-E 2.0, they're nearly always 1.0/1.1 slots.

BrooksyX · Mar 23, 2009, 07:58 PM

Hmm interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. I have an old ati x300 that I wouldn't mind trying this on. It is just sitting with the rest of my PC junk. Only time I ever use it is if I have a bad bios flash on another video card. But I guess I could set it up to a 1x card just for the fun of it.

Kweku · Mar 26, 2009, 12:46 PM

Nice bra, good work man, got the same card but will never do that to it, wanna overclock it to see just how far it can go. Will share the results up here.

ONE

NeotonicDragon3 · Mar 27, 2009, 04:56 AM

didnt know this was possible
my Dell Dimension E310 that is currently an issh
only has PCI-E-X1 and PCI slots lol

Hybridchemistry · Mar 30, 2009, 06:07 PM

lolwut?
Sweet job though, but I would have cut the board before I cut the card... may still be under warranty, but there is way less to go wrong.

crazy pyro · Apr 4, 2009, 09:40 AM

And if he killed the mobo in another way? The card cost a fifth of what his mobo did he says so there's no problem.

Yukikaze · Apr 4, 2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnglishLion

So the cut down card in the x16 slot should reach ~the same benchmark scores as the tapped over card then?

Yep.

Baum · May 8, 2009, 02:55 PM

Thanks for the try, that means you can use these cutdown technics in Xeon/server Boards? where the mayority doesn't have any x16 slot just the x1?

that would be neat gonna try that some day

crtecha · May 8, 2009, 03:14 PM

Im soo confused.......Im glad it worked out for you though

Mar 21, 2009, 10:07 AM	#1
Yukikaze Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 2,121 (1.23/day) Thanks: 213 Thanked 481 Times in 347 Posts System Specs	HD4350, a PCI-E x1 Slot and a Dremel (Tons of Pics Warning). First, a public service announcement: WARNING: There is almost no room for error and you need a very steady hand with a Dremel (Or more professional tooling) to get this done. If someone attempts this and kills their card, I take no responsibility. Be careful with taking power tools to your video cards Don't do this to a piece of hardware you'll miss if something goes wrong. Killing it is real easy. And now we return to our scheduled report: With the possible acquisition of a new TV and with the wish for a third monitor in any case, the need arose for a second video card in my system to drive that display. Since I did not want to take up the second PCI-E x16 slot in my system, and since PCI video cards are relatively expensive (and nearly impossible to find here locally), I decided to mod a Sapphire HD4350 (availiable everywhere here and el cheapo) to use a PCI-E x1 slot. I did not want to cut the slot on the motherboard (to make it open-ended), since the motherboard cost me plenty and is still under warranty, whereas the card was cheap. In the process, I decided to also benchmark the effects of the HD4350 being run at full bandwidth, at PCI-E 2.0 x1 and PCI-E x1. Considering it is a weakling of a card, I thought the bandwidth might not matter, but as we shall see shortly, I was wrong. No issue for me, I only use it to drive two more monitors, but interesting to see nonetheless. The testing system is my main rig in my system specs tab (The leftmost one in the list) and the benchmarks are ran were 3DMark06, 3DMark Vantage and Crysis at 1680x1050 on Low settings. Here's the victim's box: And here is the victim from the front: And from the rear: And how small it is next to my HD4870X2: To check whether I am going to cut off the right number of connectors, I first tested the card with some of the golden fingers taped over. The card looked like this with most of the connectors covered: And here's the back of it: Dismemberment ! And here it is in the computer for testing: And here it is sitting above my HD4870X2 (Temps on both are alright this way): Success ! Okay, I promised some benchmarks, so here they are: Crysis was benchmarked by running through the early game (Contact) until the GPS jammer on the beach (Including taking it out and watching the fireworks) and recording the FPS with FRAPS. 3DMV and 3DM06 were run on their defaults. The card was OC'ed to the maximum CCC Overdrive would allow it just for the heck of it. First, the card running at half-full bandwidth. It comes up at PCI-E 2.0 x8 in GPU-Z since that's what the slots on the mATX DFI P45 are wired as, but this shouldn't have any effect on its performance - Even far more powerful cards do not mind the PCI-E 2.0 x8 bandwidth. Crysis: Min: 7 Avg: 16.559 Max: 24 3DMark06: 3DMark Vantage: Now, the card running at the PCI-E 2.0 x16 slot in the pre-cut testing, taped over to reveal only one PCI-E lane. Resulting bandwidth is a single PCI-E 2.0 lane. Crysis: Min: 7 Avg: 15.009 Max: 23 3DMark06: 3DMark Vantage: Finally, the chopped down card in the PCI-Ex1 slot. Crysis: Min: 6 Avg: 13.633 Max: 21 3DMark06: 3DMark Vantage: As you can see, getting chopped down to a single PCI-E lane had an effect on the card's performance, with the biggest drop occurring in 3DMark06. I hope this is informative and of use to someone. I had tons of fun doing it and was a little surprised I did not kill it in the process __________________ Cameron: Core i7 2600K 4.5Ghz, MCR220, 2xMCR120, MCP655, ASRock P67 Extreme4, 4GB DDR3, 2xOCZ Vertex 30GB RAID0, GTX470, 2xHD5670, Modu82+ 625W, TT Xaser VI. Neuromancer: Core i7 975, DFI DK X58-T3eH6, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz CL6-6-6-15-1T, 3x9600GSO 384MB, Hiper 880W, TT Xaser VI. Administrator of a 40 core Hadoop cluster. Last edited by Yukikaze; Oct 14, 2009 at 06:50 AM.

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Mar 21, 2009, 10:45 AM	#2
exon1 Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 73 (0.05/day) Thanks: 27 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts System Specs	what the... O_o' __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked

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Mar 21, 2009, 11:04 AM	#3
Error 404 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Australia Posts: 1,330 (0.70/day) Thanks: 166 Thanked 178 Times in 157 Posts System Specs	Nice work, I wonder if I could do this with an 8400 GS and have me a physics card! By removing the majority of the PCI-E slot, does that reduce the electrical power available to the card, or is that supplied through the second tab of PCI-E lanes? __________________ Third rig: PC Express Invader. C2D E6400 2.13GHz, 4GB DDR2-800, 320GB HDD, Intel 945, Asus 9600GT 512MB, 550W PSU, W7 HP 64-bit. Fourth Rig: Dell Optiplex 170L, P4 Prescott 2.8GHz, 512MB DDR266RAM, 80GB HDD, FX5200PCI 128MB, 250W PSU,XP Pro Fifth rig (Laptop): Dell Inspiron 4000, 14.1", PIII 850MHz, 384MB RAM, 9.3GB, XP Pro. Now with passive cooling! “I could make a better looking computer case with a bucket of Lincoln Logs.” -lemode

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Mar 22, 2009, 12:19 PM	#4
KainXS Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,729 (2.26/day) Thanks: 190 Thanked 472 Times in 388 Posts System Specs	very nice, props man

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Mar 22, 2009, 12:21 PM	#5
alexp999 Staff Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dorset, UK Posts: 6,728 (3.13/day) Thanks: 684 Thanked 915 Times in 783 Posts System Specs	Wouldnt it have been better to cut the mobo slot or something? __________________ ASUS P45 Club [FS] [WTB] Heatware ebay Elite Lounge USB Boot Guide 3DMark Vantage My Rig XBOX Gamertag Steam ID Dad's: EVGA 750i FTW, E6600, F7Pro, 4GB, 8800GTS 640MB SLi, SST 750W, Commodore EVE Gallente Case

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Mar 22, 2009, 08:33 PM	#9
1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 6,744 (4.08/day) Thanks: 3,110 Thanked 2,329 Times in 1,566 Posts System Specs	Thats pretty darn cool! I didn't even know that PCI-E 2.0 cards would work in a 1X slot. I assume this is only for lower end cards? __________________ Youtube - The WarZ Myths + Gameplay, BF3 Weapon Reviews and more Dual Loop HAF 922 Build \| Dxtory and x264 Codec Guide “Daniel Craig is my Wookiee bitch now!” -Harrison Ford

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Mar 22, 2009, 08:41 PM	#10
KainXS Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,729 (2.26/day) Thanks: 190 Thanked 472 Times in 388 Posts System Specs	this would work on any pci-e card i guess but running this on any card over a 4650 might be near murder lol still i might try this when i get a dedicated physx card for my older pc

Mar 22, 2009, 10:08 PM	#11
1Kurgan1 The Knife in your Back Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 6,744 (4.08/day) Thanks: 3,110 Thanked 2,329 Times in 1,566 Posts System Specs	Do this to my 4870x2, lol! __________________ Youtube - The WarZ Myths + Gameplay, BF3 Weapon Reviews and more Dual Loop HAF 922 Build \| Dxtory and x264 Codec Guide “Daniel Craig is my Wookiee bitch now!” -Harrison Ford

Mar 23, 2009, 01:08 AM	#12
Xazax Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Elk Grove, CA Posts: 3,097 (1.56/day) Thanks: 219 Thanked 389 Times in 336 Posts System Specs	Why didnt you just buy the 9500GT x1 PCI-E that just came out lawlz __________________ http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=61405 Early to Rusty on Perseverance- “that if at first you don’t succeed it’s a waste of time because the Union is going to take your money anyway because they jealous we got an extra bone in our body that makes us smarter but don’t nobody in science care to acknowledge that and you were an unwanted pregnancy and your ruined my biking career and get out my sight you disgust me!” -Squidbillies

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Mar 23, 2009, 07:40 AM	#15
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Mar 23, 2009, 07:58 PM	#18
BrooksyX Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 3,572 (1.80/day) Thanks: 511 Thanked 570 Times in 527 Posts System Specs	Hmm interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. I have an old ati x300 that I wouldn't mind trying this on. It is just sitting with the rest of my PC junk. Only time I ever use it is if I have a bad bios flash on another video card. But I guess I could set it up to a 1x card just for the fun of it.

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Case:	Xigmatek Asgard II / APEX PC-389-C
PSU:	OCZ Stealth Power 500w / Antec EArthwatts 380w
Software:	Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 / XBMCBuntu 11.10

Mar 26, 2009, 12:46 PM	#19
Kweku Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Africa Posts: 209 (0.11/day) Thanks: 20 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts System Specs	Nice bra, good work man, got the same card but will never do that to it, wanna overclock it to see just how far it can go. Will share the results up here. ONE

System Name:	ProtoType D
Processor:	Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400
Motherboard:	Asus P5Q-E
Cooling:	Home made custom air cooling
Memory:	4GB 800Mhz
Hard Disk:	500GB
CRT/LCD Model:	2 X 17" Samsung LCD
Case:	Raidmax Aztec
PSU:	500W Stainless Steel
Software:	Windows 7 64bit

Mar 27, 2009, 04:56 AM	#20
NeotonicDragon3 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Arizona Posts: 209 (0.10/day) Thanks: 111 Thanked 45 Times in 23 Posts System Specs	didnt know this was possible my Dell Dimension E310 that is currently an issh only has PCI-E-X1 and PCI slots lol __________________ ılı.------Volume------.ılı. ▄ █ ▄ █ ▄ ▄ █ ▄ █ ▄ █ Min- - - - - - - - - - -●Max ► Play ▌▌ Pause ■ Stop

System Name:	Colourwheel
Processor:	AMD A8-3870K Black Edition (3.0 GHz Quad core)
Motherboard:	Gigabyte A75M-D2H
Cooling:	Coloured Fans lol and Cooler Masters Vortex Plus
Memory:	Patriot Sector 5 8GB DD3-1333
Video Card:	ASUS Radeon HD 6570 [1GB DDR3 ][4874 Shared]
Hard Disk:	2 x Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB \| 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green
Optical Drive:	LiteOn DVD Multi-drive
CRT/LCD Model:	22" LG Flatron IPS226V + 22" LG Flatron E2242
Case:	Cooler Master 430 Black Elite
Sound Card:	X-Fi XtremeGamer Edition
PSU:	Antec Earthwatts 650W
Software:	Windows 8 Pro (64-Bit)

Mar 30, 2009, 06:07 PM	#21
Hybridchemistry Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1 (0.00/day) Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	lolwut? Sweet job though, but I would have cut the board before I cut the card... may still be under warranty, but there is way less to go wrong.

Apr 4, 2009, 09:40 AM	#22
crazy pyro Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Newcastle Posts: 1,304 (0.72/day) Thanks: 290 Thanked 137 Times in 121 Posts System Specs	And if he killed the mobo in another way? The card cost a fifth of what his mobo did he says so there's no problem. __________________ Lappy: AMD athlon/ turion TK-53 2GB Crucial RAM@667 512MB Generic@667 Acer travelmate motherboard, unsure, Liteon laptop Power supply,ATI mobility Radeon, x1250,120GB HD “Testicles and birthday presents yum!” -joinmeindeath417

System Name:	The neighbour of the beast\|NC10
Processor:	Q6600 GO\|Atom N270
Motherboard:	Asus P5QSE/R
Cooling:	Stock\|Stock
Memory:	4GB Crucial Ballistix Tracer Red @800\|1GB@533
Video Card:	Palit HD4850\|Intel GMA 945
Hard Disk:	Maxtor 500GB 32 MB Cache\|160GB IDE 2.5"
Optical Drive:	Samsung 20* DVD-RW drive\|CnM external
CRT/LCD Model:	15.4" touchscreen, 15.4" Digimate LCD\| 10.2"
Case:	Coolermaster Elite 330\|Black NC10 case
Sound Card:	Realtek HD audio\|Integrated
PSU:	Corsair 650W TX\|6 Cell battery
Software:	Vista Home Premium, Win 7\| Win XP
Benchmarks:	Benches will be taken on the main rig soon. (AKA never)

May 8, 2009, 02:55 PM	#24
Baum Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Germany,Hannover Posts: 413 (0.14/day) Thanks: 84 Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts System Specs	Thanks for the try, that means you can use these cutdown technics in Xeon/server Boards? where the mayority doesn't have any x16 slot just the x1? that would be neat gonna try that some day

Processor:	Intel® Core™ i5-3570K
Motherboard:	Z77 Extreme4
Cooling:	Scythe Ninja 3 Rev. B
Memory:	Patriot DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1866 Kit (PV38G186C9KRD, Viper 3 Venom Red)
Video Card:	Palit 650GTX 1GB DDR5
Hard Disk:	1TB SATA 600 Hitachi HDS721010DLE630
Optical Drive:	BD Burner Slot Load SATA yay!
CRT/LCD Model:	23" LCD TN-Film from Asus with Tilt/Pivot
Case:	Zaria A20 !!!THANK YOU TECHPOWERUP.COM!!!
Sound Card:	onboard Sound
PSU:	BeQuiet 720W, cable management..
Software:	Windows 7 Pro x64

May 8, 2009, 03:14 PM	#25
crtecha Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ipsay meechigan Posts: 1,394 (0.84/day) Thanks: 170 Thanked 212 Times in 196 Posts System Specs	Im soo confused.......Im glad it worked out for you though __________________ And now y'all try to take my spot, fellas? Philly's hot rock fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas

System Name:	Coolin Runnings
Processor:	AMD X4 Phenom 9950 B.E. @ 3.3ghz
Motherboard:	Gigabyte GA-MA790x-DS4 BIOS Ver. F6
Cooling:	CM Vortex 752
Memory:	apacer PC6400 800mhz x 2
Video Card:	Two ATI Radeon 4850's in xfire
Hard Disk:	Seagate 7200.9 320gig+250gigx2
Optical Drive:	lite-on 22x DVD burner with lightscribe
CRT/LCD Model:	Acer P191w 19' wide
Case:	Antec 900
Sound Card:	onboard
PSU:	Antec Power trio 550watts
Software:	Windows 7 x64 Build 7100

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