What comes after nanometer?

hat · Jun 17, 2009, 10:18 AM

With the thread in the News about new 22nm hardware, I am forced to wonder what will come after nanometer?

Assassin48 · Jun 17, 2009, 10:20 AM

wouldn't it be the atom?

theorw · Jun 17, 2009, 10:26 AM

No its PICOmeter...

Mussels · Jun 17, 2009, 10:37 AM

i dont think we'll see CPU's based on a picmoter design in our lifetimes.

Velvet Wafer · Jun 17, 2009, 10:45 AM

At some point CPUs cant be build any smaller because auf physical limitations... at this point they have to ramp up the number of cores dramatically, or they have to build a quantum or DNA-based computer... to get uberperformance,or at least, more than with just a shrink

look at 45 nm cpus, theyre a lot more fragile than 65 or even 110 nm...So, at one point, ultimative fragility will have been reached. and that will probably be not far from 22 nm

tigger · Jun 17, 2009, 10:48 AM

Eventually it will just be lots of nanobots on a wafer doing the buisness.

Velvet Wafer · Jun 17, 2009, 10:49 AM

Gives the term "Grey Goo" a whole new meaning

Bundy · Jun 17, 2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

i dont think we'll see CPU's based on a picmoter design in our lifetimes.

Brave statement. I'm going to make sure I live long enough to prove you wrong now

I think in 10 years we will be seeing entirly different fabrication methods and materials that may make what we have now look rather shabby.

Mussels · Jun 17, 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bundy

Brave statement. I'm going to make sure I live long enough to prove you wrong now

I think in 10 years we will be seeing entirly different fabrication methods and materials that may make what we have now look rather shabby.

i think they'll focus more on parallelism than shrinking it down.

InnocentCriminal · Jun 17, 2009, 10:52 AM

I think in 10 years I'll be dead.

Velvet Wafer · Jun 17, 2009, 10:55 AM

Youre to positive... i bet you will have to live at least 20 years from now

i tend to high tech supercomputers, and if these wont be constructed, they could at least throw this 24core mainstream proc to the market ^^

Bundy · Jun 17, 2009, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

i think they'll focus more on parallelism than shrinking it down.

yes I agree but dont power usage and size count as well?

W1zzard · Jun 17, 2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet Wafer

At some point CPUs cant be build any smaller because auf physical limitations...

use google and find out what the real physical limitations are. there is a good article on that. we are at least several hundred years away from those

Velvet Wafer · Jun 17, 2009, 11:33 AM

sorry im german my english isnt that good, my ways of adequate conversation are a little limited... i meant the leakage issue, which will get a problem if they make continous die-shrinks... i must not tell you, you already know what i mean

At some point there will be Inventions that will change everything about them little chips. no more SOI and HKMG tech. but thats far in the future...

Mussels · Jun 17, 2009, 11:36 AM

w1zzards from germany too, i'm sure you could post something in german if you dont know how to translate it. Just try and keep an english version in the same post (to the best of your ability)

DanTheBanjoman · Jun 17, 2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet Wafer

sorry im german my english isnt that good, my ways of adequate conversation are a little limited... i meant the leakage issue, which will get a problem if they make continous die-shrinks... i must not tell you, you already know what i mean

Exactly, an issue. And there is a solution, most likely many. Believing there is an end to progress really is foolish.

Velvet Wafer · Jun 17, 2009, 11:41 AM

i never knew.... seems germans are responsible for nearly everything: Luxury Cars, processor diffusing, TPU?

Progress ist dependant on the Intelectual Powers of the Inventor. (And i dont see Intel getting better. except for integrated MC)

W1zzard · Jun 17, 2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet Wafer

Progress ist dependant on the Intelectual Powers of the Inventor. (And i dont see Intel getting better. except for integrated MC)

intel has the best people on the planet, that money can buy. they have been the leading company in that segment for over 20 consecutive years.

why isnt intel getting better ? p4 -> c2d -> c2q -> i7

Odin Eidolon · Jun 17, 2009, 11:50 AM

quantum computers FTW!

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computer

lemonadesoda · Jun 17, 2009, 11:51 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI

Mussels · Jun 17, 2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

intel has the best people on the planet, that money can buy. they have been the leading company in that segment for over 20 consecutive years.

why isnt intel getting better ? p4 -> c2d -> c2q -> i7

lets pretend P4 wasnt part of that. Early P4 was slower than P3.

Intel seems to have a trend now: first generation on a new socket runs fast, but also very hot: they work on power efficiency with the later generations. Once they get it all down and perfect (think 45nm C2D vs early 775 P4) they start a new socket, and let it go all over again.

DanTheBanjoman · Jun 17, 2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velvet Wafer

And i dont see Intel getting better. except for integrated MC)

How exactly is the memory controller related to the production process which your leakage issue belongs to?
Besides Intel there are more giants pumping billions into research of both their production process and chip designs, think IBM, Samsung, TI, TSMC, Toshiba, etc.

W1zzard · Jun 17, 2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mussels

Intel seems to have a trend now: first generation on a new socket runs fast, but also very hot: they work on power efficiency with the later generations. Once they get it all down and perfect (think 45nm C2D vs early 775 P4) they start a new socket, and let it go all over again.

anything wrong with that?

Mussels · Jun 17, 2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

anything wrong with that?

not at all. it seems to work quite well for them.

Velvet Wafer · Jun 17, 2009, 12:09 PM

They sure have. They also have an inhuman management, regarding Prices and their ways of forcing AMD out of the business. I mean, when you buy a Proc from them, its most Times more expensive than its AMD Counterpart,not ever,but mostly. due to hkmg these things do real well, but tend to die faster than their amd cousins, when overclocked with increased Vcore (so i read). Most Intel procs needed somehow more expensive hardware, to catch up with it. Amd builds were cheap as hell since i ever touched a keyboard. The only thing that Intel did better since Socket A days, was Performance.... (and they dont fucked their first quadcore) but i dindt mind if i dont have the fastest proc. (lets say 20-25% slower overall) and its more reliable,cheaper, and cooler (phenom 2 compared to i7 in this case)

It was just in my Eyes, other People might think other...

Jun 17, 2009, 10:18 AM	#1
hat Maximum Overclocker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,236 (5.15/day) Thanks: 2,054 Thanked 2,039 Times in 1,549 Posts System Specs	What comes after nanometer? With the thread in the News about new 22nm hardware, I am forced to wonder what will come after nanometer? __________________ My Heatware “Inb4 smartphone LN2 overclocking.” -radrok

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Jun 17, 2009, 10:20 AM	#2
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:26 AM	#3
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:37 AM	#4
Mussels Doctor Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bendigo, Australia (NOT THE USA) Posts: 34,561 (10.96/day) Thanks: 3,700 Thanked 8,696 Times in 6,393 Posts System Specs	i dont think we'll see CPU's based on a picmoter design in our lifetimes. __________________ Edumacational thread about PC Audio My external HDD's.5x samsung 1TB + 2x Seagate 1.5TB = 8 TB external storage 32 Bit OS vs 64 bit OS information How to get hardware accelerated H264 playback (DXVA) Netbook Owners United!

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Jun 17, 2009, 10:45 AM	#5
Velvet Wafer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North of Germany Posts: 3,847 (2.67/day) Thanks: 2,286 Thanked 1,025 Times in 838 Posts System Specs	At some point CPUs cant be build any smaller because auf physical limitations... at this point they have to ramp up the number of cores dramatically, or they have to build a quantum or DNA-based computer... to get uberperformance,or at least, more than with just a shrink look at 45 nm cpus, theyre a lot more fragile than 65 or even 110 nm...So, at one point, ultimative fragility will have been reached. and that will probably be not far from 22 nm __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked

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Jun 17, 2009, 10:48 AM	#6
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:49 AM	#7
Velvet Wafer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North of Germany Posts: 3,847 (2.67/day) Thanks: 2,286 Thanked 1,025 Times in 838 Posts System Specs	Gives the term "Grey Goo" a whole new meaning __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked

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Jun 17, 2009, 10:52 AM	#10
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Jun 17, 2009, 10:55 AM	#11
Velvet Wafer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North of Germany Posts: 3,847 (2.67/day) Thanks: 2,286 Thanked 1,025 Times in 838 Posts System Specs	Youre to positive... i bet you will have to live at least 20 years from now i tend to high tech supercomputers, and if these wont be constructed, they could at least throw this 24core mainstream proc to the market ^^ __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked

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Jun 17, 2009, 11:33 AM	#14
Velvet Wafer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North of Germany Posts: 3,847 (2.67/day) Thanks: 2,286 Thanked 1,025 Times in 838 Posts System Specs	sorry im german my english isnt that good, my ways of adequate conversation are a little limited... i meant the leakage issue, which will get a problem if they make continous die-shrinks... i must not tell you, you already know what i mean At some point there will be Inventions that will change everything about them little chips. no more SOI and HKMG tech. but thats far in the future... __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked

Jun 17, 2009, 11:36 AM	#15
Mussels Doctor Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bendigo, Australia (NOT THE USA) Posts: 34,561 (10.96/day) Thanks: 3,700 Thanked 8,696 Times in 6,393 Posts System Specs	w1zzards from germany too, i'm sure you could post something in german if you dont know how to translate it. Just try and keep an english version in the same post (to the best of your ability) __________________ Edumacational thread about PC Audio My external HDD's.5x samsung 1TB + 2x Seagate 1.5TB = 8 TB external storage 32 Bit OS vs 64 bit OS information How to get hardware accelerated H264 playback (DXVA) Netbook Owners United!

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Jun 17, 2009, 11:41 AM	#17
Velvet Wafer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North of Germany Posts: 3,847 (2.67/day) Thanks: 2,286 Thanked 1,025 Times in 838 Posts System Specs	i never knew.... seems germans are responsible for nearly everything: Luxury Cars, processor diffusing, TPU? Progress ist dependant on the Intelectual Powers of the Inventor. (And i dont see Intel getting better. except for integrated MC) __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked Last edited by Velvet Wafer; Jun 17, 2009 at 11:46 AM.

Jun 17, 2009, 11:50 AM	#19
Odin Eidolon Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Rockclimbing somewhere in Italy Posts: 818 (0.42/day) Thanks: 395 Thanked 162 Times in 145 Posts System Specs	quantum computers FTW! EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computer __________________ [CENTER] “Being human is quite overrated.” -DanTheBanjoman [FONT="Arial Black"]

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Jun 17, 2009, 11:51 AM	#20
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Jun 17, 2009, 12:09 PM	#25
Velvet Wafer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North of Germany Posts: 3,847 (2.67/day) Thanks: 2,286 Thanked 1,025 Times in 838 Posts System Specs	They sure have. They also have an inhuman management, regarding Prices and their ways of forcing AMD out of the business. I mean, when you buy a Proc from them, its most Times more expensive than its AMD Counterpart,not ever,but mostly. due to hkmg these things do real well, but tend to die faster than their amd cousins, when overclocked with increased Vcore (so i read). Most Intel procs needed somehow more expensive hardware, to catch up with it. Amd builds were cheap as hell since i ever touched a keyboard. The only thing that Intel did better since Socket A days, was Performance.... (and they dont fucked their first quadcore) but i dindt mind if i dont have the fastest proc. (lets say 20-25% slower overall) and its more reliable,cheaper, and cooler (phenom 2 compared to i7 in this case) It was just in my Eyes, other People might think other... __________________ CPU-Z validation sig pics temporarily blocked

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