AMD Juniper Early Specs Surface

btarunr · Sep 24, 2009, 07:28 PM

Earlier talked about as being a mere speed bump over RV740 that probably locks horns with Radeon HD 4850 or even HD 4870 512 MB in terms of performance in today's applications, Juniper, codename for AMD's newer mainstream GPU that is looking to handle things under the $200 segment, is looking stronger than thought about before on paper, according to recent publication by Anandtech. Breaking away from the previous conception of a GPU with 800 stream processors, a 128-bit GDDR5 memory, and most other vital-stats resembling its ancestor, the report suggests something that's at least 75% as powerful as Cypress.

It is said to feature 14 SIMD blocks, which going by Cypress' architecture would imply 1120 stream processors (14 x 80 SPs). The report also hints at a stronger memory sub-system to keep up. Instead of a 128-bit wide interface, it hints at 192-bit, GDDR5 at that. This part doesn't seem convincing, as earlier pictures of the card showed it to be holding four memory chips on the reverse side of the PCB, with no fuses to show memory chips that aren't sharing memory channels. Accelerators with 192-bit wide memory interface, should have 6 or 12 memory chips typically. Other numbers include 56 texture memory units (TMUs), and 24 raster operation units (ROPs), if there is a 192-bit memory interface. Two accelerators based on the GPU, Radeon HD 5770 and Radeon HD 5750 should be out around the same time Windows 7 hits retail. Both target sub-$200 price points.

Sources: Anandtech, VR-Zone

Zubasa · Sep 24, 2009, 07:41 PM

Now this is gona be the saving grace.
If these are indeed 75% as good as a 5870 then I am sold.

ZoneDymo · Sep 24, 2009, 07:41 PM

Well, great I guess :P

If they have a single Power connecter, 2 or so might be nice to Crossfire.

Zubasa · Sep 24, 2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoneDymo

Well, great I guess :P

If they have a single Power connecter, 2 or so might be nice to Crossfire.

I am thinking about 3 of these hot chicks just to trash my friend's 4870X2 who keeps flexing his e-peen

The 5870 simply has a hard time fitting in my case, and the 5850 we all know is the shit.

DaC · Sep 24, 2009, 07:54 PM

so.... this means hd5670 will probably have 800 SPs with ddr3 192bits bus maybe ? For around $100 ?

Zubasa · Sep 24, 2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaC

so.... this means hd5670 will probably have 800 SPs with ddr3 192bits bus maybe ? For around $100 ?

Most likely 4830 Green performance+DX11 kinda deal.
So my guess is 128-bit GDDR5.

DaC · Sep 24, 2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Most likely 4830 Green performance+DX11 kinda deal.
So my guess is 128-bit GDDR5.

well, the only problem I see is that hd4850 is $100.00 already.... and it has better specs besides dx11...

dir_d · Sep 24, 2009, 08:15 PM

This is very good...ATI is hitting NVidia with everything they got. Honestly i have no clue how NVidia is going to be able to keep up with ATI at this point. People keep saying GT300 will be a monster but it will be really expensive, the die size is so huge they wouldnt make a profit trying to compete with the 5870.

Zubasa · Sep 24, 2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dir_d

This is very good...ATI is hitting NVidia with everything they got. Honestly i have no clue how NVidia is going to be able to keep up with ATI at this point. People keep saying GT300 will be a monster but it will be really expensive, the die size is so huge they wouldnt make a profit trying to compete with the 5870.

Well, the HD5k isn't really much of a threat to nV at this point, they aren't price as competitive as AMD claims.
It isn't that hard for the GT300s to kick its ass either, even if they just double the specs as AMD did, they still end up on top.

The GTX 295 is selling cheaper then 5870s here and they perform better, go figure.
The 5850 is 4/5 fail if they don't have DX11 its 5/5 fail in my option. (Sure the nerd rage comes after me later.)

AsRock · Sep 24, 2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Well, the HD5k isn't really much of a threat to nV at this point, they aren't price as competitive as AMD claims.
It isn't that hard for the GT300s to kick its ass either, even if they just double the specs as AMD did, they still end up on top.

The GTX 295 is selling cheaper then 5870s here and they perform better, go figure.
The 5850 is 4/5 fail if they don't have DX11 its 5/5 fail in my option. (Sure the nerd rage comes after me later.)

COUGH Wha ? double there specs Holly crap would the chip actually still fit on the PCB ?. lol

Maybe they will do 1/3 of the specs just enough to keep the edge. But even then it be a monster card.

I am really looking forward to what they actually going to do.

dir_d · Sep 24, 2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Well, the HD5k isn't really much of a threat to nV at this point, they aren't price as competitive as AMD claims.
It isn't that hard for the GT300s to kick its ass either, even if they just double the specs as AMD did, they still end up on top.

The GTX 295 is selling cheaper then 5870s here and they perform better, go figure.
The 5850 is 4/5 fail if they don't have DX11 its 5/5 fail in my option. (Sure the nerd rage comes after me later.)

What i meant is Cost Wise...ATI can lower the Price and make a Profit..but with the NVidia and these giant cores can they come down in price and make a profit?

Imsochobo · Sep 24, 2009, 08:56 PM

Answer to previous post = No, nvidia cant do that.

Nvidia again, can they rename ? yes. will it still sell? not as good.

god damnit, ati is selling 70% of all videocards in my country and rising FAST!

I can go to a lan with 100 people, and 5 has a 8800 GTX or something and rest is damn ati setups lol!

suraswami · Sep 24, 2009, 08:56 PM

so 5850 will not be in the sub-200 price range? that sucks, I was hoping to get one

[I.R.A]_FBi · Sep 24, 2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Well, the HD5k isn't really much of a threat to nV at this point, they aren't price as competitive as AMD claims.
It isn't that hard for the GT300s to kick its ass either, even if they just double the specs as AMD did, they still end up on top.

The GTX 295 is selling cheaper then 5870s here and they perform better, go figure.
The 5850 is 4/5 fail if they don't have DX11 its 5/5 fail in my option. (Sure the nerd rage comes after me later.)

somestranger26 · Sep 24, 2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Well, the HD5k isn't really much of a threat to nV at this point, they aren't price as competitive as AMD claims.
It isn't that hard for the GT300s to kick its ass either, even if they just double the specs as AMD did, they still end up on top.

The GTX 295 is selling cheaper then 5870s here and they perform better, go figure.
The 5850 is 4/5 fail if they don't have DX11 its 5/5 fail in my option. (Sure the nerd rage comes after me later.)

Some people care about power consumption and have an electricity bill to pay

.

wahdangun · Sep 24, 2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imsochobo

Answer to previous post = No, nvidia cant do that.

Nvidia again, can they rename ? yes. will it still sell? not as good.

god damnit, ati is selling 70% of all videocards in my country and rising FAST!

I can go to a lan with 100 people, and 5 has a 8800 GTX or something and rest is damn ati setups lol!

yep, same in here, in fact, majority of my friend rig already gone to ati (and when ati HD 5870/50 come in here ALL of them will be ATI)

KainXS · Sep 24, 2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btarunr

Accelerators with 192-bit wide memory interface, should have 6 or 12 memory chips typically.[/URL][/SMALL]

thinking about it. that is wierd

btarunr · Sep 24, 2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KainXS

the easiest way to look at it is like GDDR5 can replicate the same as twice as much of the memory bus on GDDR3 can, so the card is 192bit GDDR5 but comparable to GDDR3 its 384bit, therefore it can have 24 rops just like the 5870 has 32

Nobody is doubting the ROP count. 24 is possible if the bus width is 192-bit GDDR5.

I said that looking at the pictures, a 192-bit interface looks unlikely as 192-bit needs 6 or 12 memory chips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KainXS

thinking about it. that is wierd

Not at all. 6 chips seated on 32-bit wide data-paths (6 x 32 = 192) or 12 chips with two chips sharing a 32-bit path each (so 6 x 32 = 192 again). If you need examples of these, check out GeForce 9600 GSO / 8800 GS cards with 384 MB or 768 MB of memory (6 or 12 chips).

KainXS · Sep 24, 2009, 11:13 PM

yea it is wierd, got meh confused

sry for the mixup

From_Nowhere · Sep 25, 2009, 02:36 AM

An overclocked 4770 will outperform a 4850.. so we should expect performance of a 5770 somewhere between a 4870, and a 4890(?????). Not a bad buy if it's roughly 4890 performance. Not a good buy if less than a 4870.

Zubasa · Sep 25, 2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsRock

COUGH Wha ? double there specs Holly crap would the chip actually still fit on the PCB ?. lol

Maybe they will do 1/3 of the specs just enough to keep the edge. But even then it be a monster card.

I am really looking forward to what they actually going to do.

Do you actually know that nV is going to utilize the 40nm fabication at TSMC just like ATi?
They will have no problem fitting a GT300 chip on the card if they just doubled the specs.
The managed to fit the GT200 @ 65nm on their cards, now think again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dir_d

What i meant is Cost Wise...ATI can lower the Price and make a Profit..but with the NVidia and these giant cores can they come down in price and make a profit?

One thing I am sure, the GTX 260 have no probelm completing with the 4870 even with its huge GPU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imsochobo

Answer to previous post = No, nvidia cant do that.

Nvidia again, can they rename ? yes. will it still sell? not as good.

god damnit, ati is selling 70% of all videocards in my country and rising FAST!

I can go to a lan with 100 people, and 5 has a 8800 GTX or something and rest is damn ati setups lol!

Not to be a jerk, do you think nV actually cares if ATi owns 100% market share in Norway?
There is a bigger market in a single province in my country then your whole country, now go figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by somestranger26

Some people care about power consumption and have an electricity bill to pay

.

Well, have you actually calculated how much you save on your power bill?
I doubt you can actually make up for the price difference during the life of a video card.

csendesmark · Sep 25, 2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Well, the HD5k isn't really much of a threat to nV at this point, they aren't price as competitive as AMD claims.
It isn't that hard for the GT300s to kick its ass either, even if they just double the specs as AMD did, they still end up on top.

The GTX 295 is selling cheaper then 5870s here and they perform better, go figure.
The 5850 is 4/5 fail if they don't have DX11 its 5/5 fail in my option. (Sure the nerd rage comes after me later.)

When nV sells a GTX295, they making deficit....

(thats waiii so hard to get a GTX295 and GTX 285)

Imsochobo · Sep 25, 2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Do you actually know that nV is going to utilize the 40nm fabication at TSMC just like ATi?
They will have no problem fitting a GT300 chip on the card if they just doubled the specs.
The managed to fit the GT200 @ 65nm on their cards, now think again.

One thing I am sure, the GTX 260 have no probelm completing with the 4870 even with its huge GPU.

THe card itself wasnt the problem with competing in terms of performance, Never ever was.
Nvidia had problems competing with ati, cause of price.
ati = half the price to make a card
Ati = Double the profit.

Nvidia= Double the price to make a card
Nvidia= Half the profit.

Quote:

Not to be a jerk, do you think nV actually cares if ATi owns 100% market share in Norway?
There is a bigger market in a single province in my country then your whole country, now go figure.

Now, lets see, mostly in whole europe there is cheaper for an ati card than in usa, atleast in many many places, i've looked in holland, UK, Norway, Sweeden, Denmark, France, Germany and that covers most of it.

Norway really isnt much diffrent than the rest of europe, except we have more money, and i guess we outdo a typical american province. but not USA Ofc.
And yeah, europe has a better eco than america(including brazil, mexico etcetc. and represent a bigger market in reality, but americans tend to oversee the fact europe exist from time to time.

Norwegians isnt ATI fanboys either, the e-tailers reported that ati had a market share of 15 % during 2900XT time, and to 3870/3870X2 they managed to get reasonable 30, then 4xxx came and well they took most of the market.

Meaning: Ati is really winning.
Not very strange, nvidia cards like GTS250 did cost as much as 4870 (cheapest vs cheapest)

Ati might charge more per videocard now though, just because they can.

tkpenalty · Sep 25, 2009, 08:02 AM

Even if nvidia makes a deficit, they still have shareholders investing thus, in the end they make revenue...

Zubasa · Sep 25, 2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkpenalty

Even if nvidia makes a deficit, they still have shareholders investing thus, in the end they make revenue...

And in business, market share makes more difference than short term profit.
In terms of market share, ATi is still fighting an up hill battle.

Sep 24, 2009, 07:28 PM	#1
btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 14,983 (7.30/day) Thanks: 788 Thanked 12,899 Times in 5,650 Posts System Specs	AMD Juniper Early Specs Surface Earlier talked about as being a mere speed bump over RV740 that probably locks horns with Radeon HD 4850 or even HD 4870 512 MB in terms of performance in today's applications, Juniper, codename for AMD's newer mainstream GPU that is looking to handle things under the $200 segment, is looking stronger than thought about before on paper, according to recent publication by Anandtech. Breaking away from the previous conception of a GPU with 800 stream processors, a 128-bit GDDR5 memory, and most other vital-stats resembling its ancestor, the report suggests something that's at least 75% as powerful as Cypress. It is said to feature 14 SIMD blocks, which going by Cypress' architecture would imply 1120 stream processors (14 x 80 SPs). The report also hints at a stronger memory sub-system to keep up. Instead of a 128-bit wide interface, it hints at 192-bit, GDDR5 at that. This part doesn't seem convincing, as earlier pictures of the card showed it to be holding four memory chips on the reverse side of the PCB, with no fuses to show memory chips that aren't sharing memory channels. Accelerators with 192-bit wide memory interface, should have 6 or 12 memory chips typically. Other numbers include 56 texture memory units (TMUs), and 24 raster operation units (ROPs), if there is a 192-bit memory interface. Two accelerators based on the GPU, Radeon HD 5770 and Radeon HD 5750 should be out around the same time Windows 7 hits retail. Both target sub-$200 price points. Sources: Anandtech, VR-Zone

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Sep 24, 2009, 07:41 PM	#2
Zubasa Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hong Kong, China Posts: 3,700 (1.53/day) Thanks: 586 Thanked 451 Times in 387 Posts System Specs	Now this is gona be the saving grace. If these are indeed 75% as good as a 5870 then I am sold. __________________ ʃ( ◕ ‿‿ ◕ )ʅ “but oh ze noes! i can't convert my porn to iphone so i can watch in the bus .. it doesnt support cuda / badaboom.” -W1zzard

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Sep 24, 2009, 07:41 PM	#3
ZoneDymo Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 303 (0.19/day) Thanks: 1 Thanked 35 Times in 23 Posts	Well, great I guess :P If they have a single Power connecter, 2 or so might be nice to Crossfire.

Sep 24, 2009, 07:54 PM	#5
DaC Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: São Paulo - SP - Brasil Posts: 591 (0.27/day) Thanks: 67 Thanked 65 Times in 57 Posts System Specs	so.... this means hd5670 will probably have 800 SPs with ddr3 192bits bus maybe ? For around $100 ?

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Sep 24, 2009, 08:15 PM	#8
dir_d Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Manteca, Ca Posts: 775 (0.57/day) Thanks: 69 Thanked 109 Times in 85 Posts System Specs	This is very good...ATI is hitting NVidia with everything they got. Honestly i have no clue how NVidia is going to be able to keep up with ATI at this point. People keep saying GT300 will be a monster but it will be really expensive, the die size is so huge they wouldnt make a profit trying to compete with the 5870.

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Sep 24, 2009, 08:56 PM	#12
Imsochobo Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: I live in Norway, in the province Buskerud. Posts: 514 (0.33/day) Thanks: 3 Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts System Specs	Answer to previous post = No, nvidia cant do that. Nvidia again, can they rename ? yes. will it still sell? not as good. god damnit, ati is selling 70% of all videocards in my country and rising FAST! I can go to a lan with 100 people, and 5 has a 8800 GTX or something and rest is damn ati setups lol!

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Sep 24, 2009, 08:56 PM	#13
suraswami Eligible for custom title Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 5,142 (1.73/day) Thanks: 850 Thanked 601 Times in 532 Posts System Specs	so 5850 will not be in the sub-200 price range? that sucks, I was hoping to get one __________________ 2 Servers Multiple VMs including WHS on VM, capacity 3.5 TB HDD Family Machine - W7 Ultimate 64bit, ECS 780G, Phenom II X3 720BE @ 3.1Ghz- 1.38V, 4GB DDR2 800 ram, Sapphire 4670 512MB, 600W Ultra X pro, Xigmatek HDT-S1283 "Oh please, the only thing more resilient than an Indian is a cockroach. Not even nukes can stop their immune systems" - TheMailMan78

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Sep 24, 2009, 11:13 PM	#19
KainXS Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,691 (2.27/day) Thanks: 184 Thanked 464 Times in 381 Posts System Specs	yea it is wierd, got meh confused sry for the mixup

Sep 25, 2009, 02:36 AM	#20
From_Nowhere Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 293 (0.16/day) Thanks: 50 Thanked 78 Times in 64 Posts	An overclocked 4770 will outperform a 4850.. so we should expect performance of a 5770 somewhere between a 4870, and a 4890(?????). Not a bad buy if it's roughly 4890 performance. Not a good buy if less than a 4870.

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Sep 25, 2009, 08:02 AM	#24
tkpenalty Eligible for custom title Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Australia, Sydney Posts: 5,023 (2.07/day) Thanks: 412 Thanked 361 Times in 266 Posts System Specs	Even if nvidia makes a deficit, they still have shareholders investing thus, in the end they make revenue... __________________ AMD Radeon X1950~HD4000 Support Clubhouse “Mac: "Woah, what are you doing?" Mac says as he levitates in the air. PC: "Playing Half-Life 2, this is my gravity gun." Mac: "Well I can sort of do that." PC: "Technically Mac, you have to become me first."” -From_Nowhere

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Cooling:	Xigmatech HDT S1283, Accelero S1, HR-05\Thermalright Ultrra 120, AcceleroS1
Memory:	6GB (2x1GB, 2x2GB) DDR800\2x1GB DDR667 Kingston
Video Card:	Gigabyte 8800GT 512MB Ultra Durable 2\X1950PRO Extreme 256MB
Hard Disk:	Seagate 7200.11 500GB SD1A\WD800
Optical Drive:	2xLG GSA H6N
CRT/LCD Model:	Samsung SyncMaster2243BW/17" LG Flatron L1750S
Case:	Antec SOLO\APEX PC-123
Sound Card:	ALC889\ALC888
PSU:	Corsair VX450\Coolermaster iGreen 600W
Software:	Windows Vista 64bit Ultimate/XP SP2

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