NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[qubit]

Fudzilla has them here:

GT300 taped out

40nm yields fine

With any luck, we'll see their next gen cards by Christmas. Can't wait for the performance comparisons.

[SteelSix]

nVidia needs to do more than leak info to Fud (or anyone else). They need a press release in which they provide full specifications, bare minimum. They're playing the cards all wrong right now, one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen a company make. With all the rumors floating, there's a potential wave of nV fans who within the next month will buy ATI.

I read a post that said it well.. "unless they're seriously behind, GT300 performance is not meeting expectaions, or some other negative factor, thier PR machine would churning right now."

[qubit]

If you want nvidia's spin unspun, renaming tricks exposed in gory details, then I can recommend http://www.semiaccurate.com/

The site is run by Charlie Demerjian and nvidia are his pet hate and he's usually right, too. His anti-nvidia rants are legendary.

EDIT: Please do not reply to this post here - see posts 56 & 59. Please reply here instead.

If I'd realised that this comment was like lighting the blue touchpaper, I wouldn't have made it. lol

[Zubasa]

Originally Posted by qubit

Fudzilla has them here:

GT300 taped out

40nm yields fine

With any luck, we'll see their next gen cards by Christmas. Can't wait for the performance comparisons.

Can't wait for GT300s to give ATi a lesson.
Foot long Barbeque FTL.

[Marineborn]

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Can't wait for GT300s to give ATi a lesson.
Foot long Barbeque FTL.

lol, by christman ATI will have another whole new line of cards, and the gt300 series will still be behind. lolerskates, I hope they put up some competition thought to drop the ati prices so i can get my hands on 4 5870x2's, WOOT WOOT

[Black Panther]

At the rate cards are being churned out by both companies I'm never going to buy anything... just keep putting my purchase off to see what's next and which prices are going down... :/

[naoan]

Originally Posted by SteelSix

nVidia needs to do more than leak info to Fud (or anyone else). They need a press release in which they provide full specifications, bare minimum. They're playing the cards all wrong right now, one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen a company make. With all the rumors floating, there's a potential wave of nV fans who within the next month will buy ATI.

I read a post that said it well.. "unless they're seriously behind, GT300 performance is not meeting expectaions, or some other negative factor, thier PR machine would churning right now."

So true, ATI has already released their cards, there's no point for Nv smoke screening their cards (or at least the specification) and it'll only hurting them if this keeps up, unless there's something wrong with GT300, whatever it is.
It's hurting us consumer too, as ATi cards won't go down in price if Nv keeps dilly-dallying.

[ToTTenTranz]

Originally Posted by SteelSix

nVidia needs to do more than leak info to Fud (or anyone else). They need a press release in which they provide full specifications, bare minimum. They're playing the cards all wrong right now, one of the dumbest moves I've ever seen a company make. With all the rumors floating, there's a potential wave of nV fans who within the next month will buy ATI.

I read a post that said it well.. "unless they're seriously behind, GT300 performance is not meeting expectaions, or some other negative factor, thier PR machine would churning right now."

So you want nVidia to launch a press release saying:

"Don't worry, fanboys! Our unreleased and unannounced graphics cards are coming and in good shape."



That's not something they can do in a press release. That's something they can "leak" to Fud.

[SneakySnake]

Agreed, we are going to have a 5890, 5870x2, and probably some lower end 5670's and 5830's. ATI will have a full line of cards out. While Nvidia is probably going to leak some specs on its behemoth $600 card, they aren't going to have any budget options for a while

[Solaris17]

Originally Posted by Black Panther

At the rate cards are being churned out by both companies I'm never going to buy anything... just keep putting my purchase off to see what's next and which prices are going down... :/

the 58xx series and the GT 300 seires will be the next primary odels from both companys. granted their will be multiple versions of cards in the series(s) but if anything in my opinion. now would be the time to upgrade as either one would be an investment into a relatively long term product line.

[KainXS]

this is really good, in november the 58XX drivers will be optimized probably but if we know nvidia they're probably gonna make a 64 rop, 512 shader monster.

[btarunr]

Make this the general discussion thread for GT300.

[Black Panther]

Originally Posted by SneakySnake

Agreed, we are going to have a 5890, 5870x2,

That also calls for a 5890x2 otherwise there's the risk the 5870x2 will be more powerful than the 5890...

[phanbuey]

hmm usually the performance doubles... - even the mighty 8800GTX was only slightly faster than double the 7900GTX performance... so we will see a card that should be faster than the 5870, but not by a huge margin.

At that time ATI will have the 5870x2 out... so it looks like they most likely will have the fastest card come Christmas time.

Still, it will be interesting to see what nvidia comes up with. Its just amazing how they sat around milking the G92 and skipped generations and now they are racing to get a competing product out.

[soldier242]

i really wanna know what cookin there at nvidias'

i guess Ati should have the luck on their side again ....

[qubit]

Originally Posted by btarunr

Make this the general discussion thread for GT300.

Done.

[SteelSix]

Originally Posted by ToTTenTranz

So you want nVidia to launch a press release saying:

"Don't worry, fanboys! Our unreleased and unannounced graphics cards are coming and in good shape."

That's not something they can do in a press release. That's something they can "leak" to Fud.

An oversimplification but I understand your point.. little to report other than "under construction."

The main reason for stealth is to gain the element of surprise. The new war is on; ATI's fired the first shot. Stealh can still have advantages now; but a counteroffensive is required or your enemy will continue to advance.

Market share is the line.. ATI will push it in their favor for how long, a week, a month, three months? If you're holding stock (like I am), you want to know WTF nV's doing to hold the line...

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Zubasa

Can't wait for GT300s to give ATi a lesson.
Foot long Barbeque FTL.

Lol, you expect Nvidia to have a smaller, less monolithic card? If so, I hope you are right as Nvidia will have a killer card on their hands. I just want a little.. tiny snippet of info on the new chip!!!

*Thread title changed.

I think it's getting to the point where I'm enjoying speculation more than actually using the cards.

[SneakySnake]

I'm eyeing up the 5850 right now as a replacement for the 260 c192, but it would be extremely nice to know what sorta specs the 360 is gonna have. I really hope the Nvidia doesn't screw up all of the naming on the new series.

[Benetanegia]

Here they heard the same from their independent sources:

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...-are-fine.aspx

Originally Posted by erocker

Lol, you expect Nvidia to have a smaller, less monolithic card? If so, I hope you are right as Nvidia will have a killer card on their hands. I just want a little.. tiny snippet of info on the new chip!!!

*Thread title changed.

I think it's getting to the point where I'm enjoying speculation more than actually using the cards.

I do think they will have a less monolithic design, at least if we compare it to RV870 which has 50% more transistors than GT200. The same sources that have been saying that yields were right, that is, the ones that do know what's going on, have always said the GT300 is smaller than 500mm2.

And it must be in order to make any sense given the rumored specs. Let's speculate. If Nvidia doubled everything the chip would have a maximum of around 2.8 billion transistors (2 x 1.4). RV870 is 2.15 billion transistors and 330mm2, so by the rule of three GT300 would be around 450mm2 plus minus something. That's far less than what GT200 was at launch and even less than GT200b and that's if they trully went with 64 ROPs which IMHO is very unlikely. Some leaked info a lot months ago said GT300 had 2.4 billion transistors anyway and that fits with the 512 shader cores, 32 ROP idea. 32 ROPs make sense taking into account how Nvidia links a 64bit controler to each 4 ROP cluster.

All in all the situation that hapened with RV770 vs GT200 will never happen again. Ati had a lot of advantages back then, like a smaller process and GDDR5. Now they have the same weapons and Nvidia has one advantage this time around, they will release later and they can change the clocks if necessary. GT200 could overclock a 20%, so imagine if Nvidia had released them later, after seing how RV770 performed. They could have used a 10% higher clocks, making the GTX260 a 10% faster than HD4870, while still leaving a 10% OC margin. It would have been a completely different story. HD5xxx don't overclock very well, so Nvidia can play that card, OR if they already are significantly faster, they could relax the clocks or the specs for the GTX360 and improve yields.

IMHO, considering how RV770 vs GT200 turned out, Nvidia has the winning hand in this round.

[Binge]

I knew the yields weren't bad since it was only from 4 wafers... do people here even know how many wafers are in a "lot"?

[Steevo]

Good to know competition will drive down consumer prices, and nV fanbois have fap material.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by qubit

If you want nvidia's spin unspun, renaming tricks exposed in gory details, then I can recommend http://www.semiaccurate.com/

The site is run by Charlie Demerjian and nvidia are his pet hate and he's usually right, too. His anti-nvidia rants are legendary.

No he's not, most of his crap is completely baseless BS. He's usually completely wrong.

[btarunr]

Yup. You can trust Charlie to fill your fanATIc fantasies with rainbows and meadows.

[Benetanegia]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

No he's not, most of his crap is completely baseless BS. He's usually completely wrong.

At this point, I even believe he works for AMD, although he may not be on their payroll. All those AMD adds on his site stink...

What is clear is that one way or another he is very close to AMD and everything he says about AMD/Ati is true. So he already is 50% right about graphics news before he starts making things up about Nvidia. Then if anything he makes up turns out to be half true, hey! He already is above 50% correct!! Then it must be true most of what he says right?

Also look at this on the second Fudzilla link in the OP:

This comes after some stories that GT300 yields are really bad and that next generation Nvidia is in really bad shape. According to AMD’s competitive analysis team, only nine chips should work per wafer, but they got this number due to a bad translation and we can definitely dismiss this number as completely inaccurate information.

So are they hinting that the rumors of bad yields had their source in AMD's competitive analysis team??? Maybe they can tell us how it will perform too?? Please...