Nvidia kills GTX285, GTX275, GTX260

Assassin48 · Oct 6, 2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Basically, engineering failure after engineering failure has left Nvidia without a high end part, they are left waving shells while trying desperately to convince the loyal press that it is real. While that is a problem for the future, the current concern is that they have nothing that can compete with the ATI's Evergreen line, HD5870, HD5850, and the upcoming Junipers.

The G200b based parts can compete on performance, but not at a profit, so they are going to die. Nvidia was booted out of the high end market, and are now abandoning the mid range in a humbling retreat. Expect a similar backpedaling from the rest in January when Cedar and Redwood come out.

There are no half or quarter Fermi derivatives taped out yet, so at a bare minimum, Nvidia has nothing for 2 more quarters. To make matters worse, due to the obscene 530++mm^2 die size on TSMC's 40nm process, Fermi is almost twice the size of it's competitor, Cypress/HD5870/HD5850. A cut down half version would cost less but still be barely competitive with Juniper. That chip would once again be vastly larger and more expensive than the ATI equivalents, and that is before board costs are examined. As the product stack waterfalls down, the ratios remain the same, Nvidia can not be cost competitive for the Evergreen vs Fermi generation, period.

Massive engineering failures and cover-ups, starting with Bumpgate, have defined the company for the last two years. More recently, this includes the G212 failure, G214 fiasco and failure, now morphed into the G215 which is 3Q late so far, if it can ever be made profitably, and the G216 and G218 with the broken GDDR5 controllers. One or two failures are understandable, this many is flat out mismanagement.

As we have been saying all along, there is no savior chip, no plan B, they all failed. Nvidia can make chips and sell them at a loss, or retreat from those markets and lose less money. The only question now is whether or not they can fix their engineering problems and get competitive parts out before they run out of cash. Given that the earliest that this can happen is next summer, it will be very touch and go.

Source:
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/...gh-end-market/

[I.R.A]_FBi · Oct 6, 2009, 09:36 PM

hmmmm

Assassin48 · Oct 6, 2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [I.R.A]_FBi

hmmmm

http://www.geo.uw.edu.pl/SOLNO/iv.jpeg

erocker · Oct 6, 2009, 09:41 PM

If true, this is very bad for everyone. There needs to be competition. I really don't believe the article right now.

DonInKansas · Oct 6, 2009, 09:42 PM

Weren't they saying the same thing about ATi about a year or two ago?

MK4512 · Oct 6, 2009, 09:44 PM

Hah, the guy who sits beside me in Science is gona get an earfull tommorow!

(He's an Nvidia guy...)

I'm sure a new company will pop up to create competition. Or maybe card manufacturers will drive the price down.

Nailezs · Oct 6, 2009, 09:44 PM

i dont mean to sound like a moron, but what exactly does this mean? i understand that ATI now rules the high-end market, and therefore prices will be expected to sky rocket in that range(can any1 say monopoly?) but why is nvidia killing the 260, 275, and 285?

suraswami · Oct 6, 2009, 09:45 PM

nah, NV will come back with a bigger stick to beat up ATI.

erocker · Oct 6, 2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailezs

but why is nvidia killing the 260, 275, and 285?

No longer profitable at the price point they have to sell them to compete.

El Fiendo · Oct 6, 2009, 09:47 PM

Has everyone forgot to look at the author again? The guy who was right on 1 article and wrong on the rest.

Jstn7477 · Oct 6, 2009, 09:49 PM

Well, if NV does actually die completely, there may still be competition from Intel if they get Larrabee out. Then it's Intel vs. AMD on both CPU and GPU fronts. :P

Nailezs · Oct 6, 2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erocker

No longer profitable at the price point they have to sell them to compete.

oh...that really sucks...so like there wont be any made at all by any1? im thinking of all the wasted R&D the different companys have put into these card with OC'ing and cooling etc...seems like such a waste

but if i remember correctly, weren't the massive failure rates of the gt300 cores that were reported revealed as misinformation spread by ATI?

newtekie1 · Oct 6, 2009, 09:52 PM

I was a little concerned until I saw the source...

I can guarantee you this is complete BS.

erocker · Oct 6, 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailezs

but if i remember correctly, weren't the massive failure rates of the gt300 cores that were reported revealed as misinformation spread by ATI?

ATi never said anything like that. They would have no idea. Nvidia still says that Fermi will be Q4 2009. One would think they know more about their product than some "journalist" who doesn't like Nvidia. So, I'm sure we'll see new Nvidia cards by Christmas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtekie1

I was a little concerned until I saw the source...

I can guarantee you this is complete BS.

I'm sure there is plenty of stock to go around for those who want ot buy an older video card.

[Ion] · Oct 6, 2009, 09:56 PM

Until I saw it was by Charlie Demerjian I was a bit worried, but now, nah...

El Fiendo · Oct 6, 2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailezs

but if i remember correctly, weren't the massive failure rates of the gt300 cores that were reported revealed as misinformation spread by ATI?

It was revealed as misinformation spread by the article's author. It's the same guy doing what he always does. Hell, his website name even hints at how credible he is. 'Semi Accurate'. However he provides exactly what the red oriented fan likes to see even if he's proven wrong, most times within days. As such his crap is usually plastered all over the forums with many an AMD / ATI fan gobbling it right up. Don't get me wrong, Nvidia fans have their vices too.

As proof of my claims, the only proof of his claims provided in each article are previous articles written by him. Each of these earlier articles are without solid or concrete proof, only providing articles written earlier yet by him as proof. When you read the things he writes as proof of his claims, the only way you could really reach his conclusion is if you took the most wild or sensational thing happening and assume that happens.

This man isn't a journalist, he's an entertainer.

qubit · Oct 6, 2009, 10:02 PM

So once again, everyone thinks Charlie is wrong, huh? I'm gonna bookmark this story and come back to it in 6 months and see if he was right.

Obviously, I hope he's not; nvidia's high end products are very good indeed and we really need that competition.

Personally, I don't think that nvidia are gonna get taken out so easily.

erocker · Oct 6, 2009, 10:03 PM

The facts we need:

1.How much do these cards cost to make?

2.How much does Nvidia need to sell these cards for to make a profit?

Nailezs · Oct 6, 2009, 10:03 PM

i feel better now lol

kurosagi01 · Oct 6, 2009, 10:07 PM

i'm pretty sure ATI is getting benefit of making there graphics card with help of AMD to provide the money to develop?? if i'm wrong im sorry but if its right then nvidia is on its own trying pay for resources etc while ATI has AMD to also support there resources.

Again if i'm wrong i'm sorry

Cold Storm · Oct 6, 2009, 10:09 PM

To me, it's hard to believe it from someone that on Every banner on the site/forum, is something ATi/AMD... Now.. To me, that's hard to swallow when all I see that...

DonInKansas · Oct 6, 2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold Storm

To me, it's hard to believe it from someone that on Every banner on the site/forum, is something ATi/AMD... Now.. To me, that's hard to swallow when all I see that...

I didn't have to go any farther than "semi-accurate.com" to be skeptical.

WOOKZ · Oct 6, 2009, 10:15 PM

if they scrap the 285 will that mean no more updated drivers for that card if this is indeed true!??

Cold Storm · Oct 6, 2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

I didn't have to go any farther than "semi-accurate.com" to be skeptical.

right on that.. I am by no way a Nvidia "lover" I've thrown three 4series ati cards in people's builds that I have done. I just prefer Nvidia for reasons of my own.. Now, if I grabbed a board that could go with ati in crossfire, I'd do it.. I'm open to anything on the hardware market.. If it suits what I like in the product..

it's just hard to believe on the fact that the site just one sides on what they like.. Gotta go threw the forums to even see if they are one sided on who posts...

Cuzza · Oct 6, 2009, 10:18 PM

This is a bit of a laugh, but posting such BS here as if it is actual news is unnecessary. Let's keep this site serious, No more from semi-accurate.com please. If I want that sort of crap I now know where to go.

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:36 PM	#2
[I.R.A]_FBi Eligible for custom title Join Date: May 2007 Location: c:\programs\kitteh.exe Posts: 6,152 (2.80/day) Thanks: 724 Thanked 556 Times in 461 Posts System Specs	hmmmm __________________ Rig 1+1 Athlon XP 2200+, MSI KM2M Combo, ATI 9200SE 128 MB DDR, 2 X 512 MB DDR333, 250GB + 80 HDD? “try intel cpu, amd is only good for going to nude sites” -firehawkxd “go for the 5850 now and play games while the nvidiots wait for the ceo to show an actual working product” -W1zzard “An MSI logo? This offends my retina. I await your apology.” -MRCL www.autolounge.com.jm

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:41 PM	#4
erocker Senior Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI. Posts: 31,912 (12.77/day) Thanks: 2,783 Thanked 12,275 Times in 7,814 Posts System Specs	If true, this is very bad for everyone. There needs to be competition. I really don't believe the article right now.

Oct 6, 2009, 09:42 PM	#5
DonInKansas Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 4,261 (1.95/day) Thanks: 779 Thanked 1,273 Times in 1,007 Posts System Specs	Weren't they saying the same thing about ATi about a year or two ago? __________________ Sneekypeet on my disappearance from TPU: "He went to school for a while to learn how to deal with douchebags and delight in pastries and exotic coffees....or in English, he is a cop now." You know what time it is......

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:44 PM	#6
MK4512 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 217 (0.16/day) Thanks: 48 Thanked 43 Times in 25 Posts System Specs	Hah, the guy who sits beside me in Science is gona get an earfull tommorow! (He's an Nvidia guy...) I'm sure a new company will pop up to create competition. Or maybe card manufacturers will drive the price down.

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:44 PM	#7
Nailezs Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: DelMarVa Posts: 829 (0.59/day) Thanks: 137 Thanked 68 Times in 64 Posts System Specs	i dont mean to sound like a moron, but what exactly does this mean? i understand that ATI now rules the high-end market, and therefore prices will be expected to sky rocket in that range(can any1 say monopoly?) but why is nvidia killing the 260, 275, and 285? __________________ Disclaimer: 99% of the time I think I am right. If I am wrong, correct me. "I only ever made a mistake once in my life - but it was a mistake" - My Dad “i beat it on pc while chatting in steam and on vent. granted, it took me a few tries but it is do-able.” -Nailezs “Well I must not be as 1337 as you. I'm going to build a life size vinyl statue of this bitch and commence to face f#$k her it I can't beat her in game.” -TheMailMan78 I AM 1337!!

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:45 PM	#8
suraswami Eligible for custom title Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 5,142 (1.73/day) Thanks: 849 Thanked 601 Times in 532 Posts System Specs	nah, NV will come back with a bigger stick to beat up ATI. __________________ 2 Servers Multiple VMs including WHS on VM, capacity 3.5 TB HDD Family Machine - W7 Ultimate 64bit, ECS 780G, Phenom II X3 720BE @ 3.1Ghz- 1.38V, 4GB DDR2 800 ram, Sapphire 4670 512MB, 600W Ultra X pro, Xigmatek HDT-S1283 "Oh please, the only thing more resilient than an Indian is a cockroach. Not even nukes can stop their immune systems" - TheMailMan78

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:47 PM	#10
El Fiendo Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 1,846 (1.07/day) Thanks: 363 Thanked 1,183 Times in 546 Posts System Specs	Has everyone forgot to look at the author again? The guy who was right on 1 article and wrong on the rest. __________________ “If you don't dip your words in sugar, rainbows and teddy bears people will think you wish to hunt them down to torture and eventually kill them.” -DanTheBanjoman

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:49 PM	#11
Jstn7477 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA Posts: 3,125 (2.30/day) Thanks: 386 Thanked 1,186 Times in 801 Posts System Specs	Well, if NV does actually die completely, there may still be competition from Intel if they get Larrabee out. Then it's Intel vs. AMD on both CPU and GPU fronts. :P

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:52 PM	#13
newtekie1 Semi-Retired Folder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 17,747 (6.48/day) Thanks: 780 Thanked 5,115 Times in 3,706 Posts System Specs	I was a little concerned until I saw the source... I can guarantee you this is complete BS. __________________ Rig1: System Specs. Rig2: A8-5600K@4.4GHz / AsRock FM2A75 Pro4 / 8GB Corsair DDR3-1600 9-9-9-24 / HD7560D / Samsung DVD-Burner / 1.5TB WD Green + 3x3TB WD RED in RAID5 Rig3: Athlon X2 4200+ / M4A79 Deluxe / 4GB G.Skill Pi DDR2-800 4-4-4-12 / GT430 / Sony DVD-Burner / 500GB WD Rig4: Phenom II x6 1605T @ 3.6GHz / Asus M5A99X Evo / 8GB PNY DDR3-1600 9-9-9 / GTX470 & GTX470 / Samsung DVD-Burner / 1.5TB Seagate

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Oct 6, 2009, 09:56 PM	#15
[Ion] WCG Team Assistant Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Carolina, US Posts: 10,656 (7.93/day) Thanks: 8,241 Thanked 9,321 Times in 4,259 Posts System Specs	Until I saw it was by Charlie Demerjian I was a bit worried, but now, nah... __________________ Ion's WCG Essentials Thread Crunching (64 Threads + 896 CUDA Cores + 6272 Shaders): i3-2100@ 3.1 + HD7850 -- Atom D510 @ 1.66 -- C2D-M T9600 @ 2.8 -- i7-3612QM @ 2.8 -- i7-860 @ 2.9 + HD7950 -- i7-2700k @ 4.4 + 2xGTX470 -- PentDC-M T4200 @ 2.0 -- i7-920 @ 3.83 + 3xHD7770 -- DP Xeon E5420 @ 2.5 + HD7930 -- E1600 @ 2.4

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Oct 6, 2009, 10:02 PM	#17
qubit Overclocked quantum bit Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Quantumville UK Posts: 8,648 (4.34/day) Thanks: 4,178 Thanked 3,303 Times in 1,943 Posts System Specs	So once again, everyone thinks Charlie is wrong, huh? I'm gonna bookmark this story and come back to it in 6 months and see if he was right. Obviously, I hope he's not; nvidia's high end products are very good indeed and we really need that competition. Personally, I don't think that nvidia are gonna get taken out so easily.

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Oct 6, 2009, 10:03 PM	#18
erocker Senior Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI. Posts: 31,912 (12.77/day) Thanks: 2,783 Thanked 12,275 Times in 7,814 Posts System Specs	The facts we need: 1.How much do these cards cost to make? 2.How much does Nvidia need to sell these cards for to make a profit?

Oct 6, 2009, 10:03 PM	#19
Nailezs Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: DelMarVa Posts: 829 (0.59/day) Thanks: 137 Thanked 68 Times in 64 Posts System Specs	i feel better now lol __________________ Disclaimer: 99% of the time I think I am right. If I am wrong, correct me. "I only ever made a mistake once in my life - but it was a mistake" - My Dad “i beat it on pc while chatting in steam and on vent. granted, it took me a few tries but it is do-able.” -Nailezs “Well I must not be as 1337 as you. I'm going to build a life size vinyl statue of this bitch and commence to face f#$k her it I can't beat her in game.” -TheMailMan78 I AM 1337!!

Oct 6, 2009, 10:07 PM	#20
kurosagi01 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northampton,UK Posts: 2,578 (1.69/day) Thanks: 93 Thanked 417 Times in 390 Posts System Specs	i'm pretty sure ATI is getting benefit of making there graphics card with help of AMD to provide the money to develop?? if i'm wrong im sorry but if its right then nvidia is on its own trying pay for resources etc while ATI has AMD to also support there resources. Again if i'm wrong i'm sorry __________________ PSN: kurosagi01\|steamid: phalanx-88\| xfire: itachiasuka Heatware Laptop Clubhouse"join" Laptop: HP Compaq 6735s AMD Turion X2 2.0GHZ\|4GB DDR2 667\|250GB HD\|ATI Radeon HD3200\|Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

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Oct 6, 2009, 10:09 PM	#21
Cold Storm Battosai Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: In a library somewhere on this earth Posts: 10,566 (5.15/day) Thanks: 4,239 Thanked 3,047 Times in 2,493 Posts System Specs	To me, it's hard to believe it from someone that on Every banner on the site/forum, is something ATi/AMD... Now.. To me, that's hard to swallow when all I see that... __________________ The only way success is before work, is in the dictionary Support for the mind. Support for your hardware

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Cooling:	Koolance C370si loop
Memory:	8gb G. Skill Trident X 2400mhz at 10-11-11-28
Video Card:	XFX Double D 7950 / Zotac 620 for physx
Hard Disk:	Samsung 830 128gb (os)Muskin Chronos 120gb, Pyro 120gb
Optical Drive:	Asus Blu-Ray (SBW-06C1S-U)
CRT/LCD Model:	Testing: Vizio 37" lcd tv / Viewsonic VX2450WM-LED 24" & Hanns G 28"
Case:	Cooler Master Cosmos II
Sound Card:	Auzentech X-fi Forte 7.1 Opamp modded
PSU:	Silverstone Strider Plus 1000w pp05 cables
Software:	Win7 Pro64
Benchmarks:	i5 750 4.62ghz pi runs // Evga FTW p55

Oct 6, 2009, 10:15 PM	#23
WOOKZ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: SYD AUS Posts: 110 (0.07/day) Thanks: 25 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts System Specs	if they scrap the 285 will that mean no more updated drivers for that card if this is indeed true!?? __________________ " I THOUGHT I KNEW EVERYTHING" Until I Discovered Humility.... MERRY XMAS TO ALL

System Name:	WOOKZ_KRAIT
Processor:	i7 920 DO STEP
Motherboard:	RAMPAGE 2 EXTREME
Cooling:	THORS HAMMER X DUAL FANS
Memory:	6 GIG G SKILL 1600 Trident
Video Card:	GTX 295 DUEL PCB
Hard Disk:	2X 150 GIG WD RAPTORS{OS} [WD 1 TB STORAGE] USB 500 Gig Ex FOR Backup
Optical Drive:	SAMSUNG 24X MULTI Data / LG. BLU RAY MULTI Dvd
CRT/LCD Model:	27'' HD
Case:	ANTEC 1200
Sound Card:	CARD WITH BOARD
PSU:	CORSAIR HX 1000Watt MODULAR
Software:	WIN 7 ULTIMATE 64

Oct 6, 2009, 10:18 PM	#25
Cuzza Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 932 (0.43/day) Thanks: 136 Thanked 213 Times in 166 Posts System Specs	This is a bit of a laugh, but posting such BS here as if it is actual news is unnecessary. Let's keep this site serious, No more from semi-accurate.com please. If I want that sort of crap I now know where to go. __________________ My Sega Mod Project - - - - - - - My Macintosh Mod Project “I don't want to get sued by any 9 fungered modders cause I gave them the idea. My wife concurs with me on that, too.” -Mark_Hardware "For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables." - Romans 14:2

Processor:	AMD Phenom II 555BE unlocked X4 @3.8GHz
Motherboard:	GA-78LMT-S2P
Cooling:	Thermaltake Blue Orb + open case in cold room = low temps lol
Memory:	8Gb DDR3 1600
Video Card:	GTX580
Hard Disk:	64GB SSD Super Talent
CRT/LCD Model:	22" Chimei, 17" Philips
Case:	POS!
PSU:	Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 800W

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