AMD Radeon HD 5870 PCI-Express Scaling - Page 2

Mussels · Sep 24, 2009, 08:53 AM

i tried telling people i only took a 10% performance hit on a 4x slot when i ran a 16x/4x crossfire setup, and no one beleived me.

that was with 4870s on a 1.1 motherboard, at least i finally have someone else with similar findings now.

W1zzard · Sep 24, 2009, 10:14 AM

i'll have the cf x8 and x4 numbers today as well

tzitzibp · Sep 24, 2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

i'll have the cf x8 and x4 numbers today as well

*anxiously waiting*

qubit · Sep 24, 2009, 11:24 AM

Really useful review, thanks.

If the difference between 8x & 16x is so small on this new beast of a card, I'm sure that it practically disappears on older, slower cards (eg 8800 GTX, HD4850 etc) which most people will currently have. Therefore, we don't have to worry about losing performance in 8x mode.

W1zzard · Sep 24, 2009, 11:49 AM

in x8 2.0 .. x8 1.1 is equivalent to x4 2.0

T3kl0rd · Sep 24, 2009, 01:15 PM

Great article. Can't wait for the CF results. Seeing as how I am choosing a X58 mobo over P55, it will be interesting to see the percentage decrease, to say the least. 10% or so is reason enough for me to go X58.

yogurt_21 · Sep 25, 2009, 04:19 AM

very interesting. I find it comforting that my 16x 1.1 bus will not penalize me nearly at all should I end up getting one of these cards. based on current budgeting, it seems to be ahard push to get anew gpou and upgrade cpu/mobo/memeory.

thanks!

sethk · Sep 25, 2009, 10:35 PM

This is interesting because it gives you a preview of how well it could work in a ExpressCard docking station solution for a laptop, where you could conceivable game with a 5850/5870 connected to your latop through ExpressCard (essentially PCIe 1x), with better framerates than almost anything available for most laptops.

the_pharaoh · Sep 26, 2009, 01:29 AM

"Buy one of these accelerators now, and give them a neighborhood when they become more affordable, and you will have secured yourself future-proofing for quite long."

Wow, what on earth does that even mean? Proof-reading please.

Dan848 · Sep 26, 2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

in x8 2.0 .. x8 1.1 is equivalent to x4 2.0

I have a version 1.0 Gigabyte P35-DS3R that uses PCIe x16, so, that would be the same as x8 in version 2.0 PCIe?

Thank you,

Dan

jmcslob · Sep 27, 2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan848

I have a version 1.0 Gigabyte P35-DS3R that uses PCIe x16, so, that would be the same as x8 in version 2.0 PCIe?

Thank you,

Dan

Yes

[I.R.A]_FBi · Sep 27, 2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sihastru

This means 2 x 58x0 CF setups are viable even on the old P45 motherboards (2 x 8x PCIe 2.0). I am very surprised about the 4x PCIe 2.0 performance... it's too good.

My P45 has three .. no more worries ..

Bo_Fox · Sep 28, 2009, 06:26 PM

Awesome article.. havent seen an article like that in years! Kudos, W1z and btarunr!

stupido · Oct 1, 2009, 12:28 PM

well, if possible, I would like to see the impact of chipset too... I mean compared P45, P55 and X58?
this review was done on i7 machine, but what on i5 machine or Core2Quad?

Mussels · Oct 1, 2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stupido

well, if possible, I would like to see the impact of chipset too... I mean compared P45, P55 and X58?
this review was done on i7 machine, but what on i5 machine or Core2Quad?

it would be irrelevant. CPU bottlenecks would be the only thing that changed the results.

Obviously, on a weaker system the maximum FPS would be lower, therefore the performance differential would decrease across the tests.

matrices · Oct 10, 2009, 01:15 PM

I'm a little confused by the analysis. Does your x4 simulation accurately emulate the actual x4 on the P55 PCH? In a review of x16/x4 P55 boards (Asus and Gigabyte), you wrote:

"The top slot gets a full 16 lanes of PCIe 2.0 from the CPU, while the second slot harnesses four of the not-quite-second-gen PCI Express lanes built into the PCH. Intel labels the P55's eight PCI Express lanes as 2.0, but they only signal at 2.5GT/s—gen-one speed. That's still plenty of bandwidth for Gigabit Ethernet and most reasonable auxiliary storage configurations. However, it might be a hindrance to CrossFire configurations."

I can't decipher that. Four "not-quite-second-gen" PCI-E lanes? So these are x4 PCI-E 1.0 lanes, not x4 PCI-E 2.0 lanes? Are they the same type that you measured in this simulation? And since some P55 boards have 8/8/4, is the "4" from there the same speed as the "4" in the board you reviewed above?

Anandtech has already done the CF test with ATI 5870 in 16/16 versus 8/8, and we already know the difference is negligible there. What would be truly interesting is to test Tri-Fire and CF with Physx (with the hack) in 16/16/16 versus 8/8/4 (whatever "4" that may be).

Also, while the continuing usefulness of the x8 slot means that older 750i/680i SLI boards and Intel P35 boards will not be bottlenecked by PCI-E bandwidth, the C2D and C2Q are definitely bottlenecked to some degree by SLI and CF, period. Very few people have done the analysis but there's an article at Guru3D conclusively demonstrating that in some games, dual-card CF/SLI is 50% more effective on the i7 than the C2D/Q. And Tri-SLI (and therefore presumably Tri-CF) is almost completely wasted on non i7/i5 chipsets, according to the numbers.

sideeffect · Oct 12, 2009, 01:54 AM

Nice article, it was very informative.

Out of interest if you run PCI-E 2.0 8x at 125MHz Bus speed does that increase the bandwidth to 5 GB/s?

Bo_Fox · Oct 27, 2009, 08:39 PM

Once again, an awesome article!

Calle2003 · Nov 14, 2009, 04:02 PM

What's up with Dawn of War 2 1280x1024 2xAA 8xAF?
x4 and x8 fares better than x16!

Bo_Fox · Nov 15, 2009, 11:42 PM

^^ Hmm, what do you mean?

Calle2003 · Nov 24, 2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo_Fox

^^ Hmm, what do you mean?

Check out Page 8: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...Scaling/8.html

Geofrancis · Nov 25, 2009, 05:13 PM

i am glad somone did an article like this it proves that my hd 4850 runs fine in my J&W MITX 780G board that only has 4x pci-e 2.0 slot along with all the next generation graphics cards.

on another note why are none of the new ati graphics cards single slot? that was one of the great features of the card.

zed011 · Dec 11, 2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W1zzard

i'll have the cf x8 and x4 numbers today as well

Nowhere to be found?

Bo_Fox · Dec 11, 2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calle2003

Check out Page 8: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...Scaling/8.html

Sorry I missed your post..

This is interesting.. perhaps it's a benchmark variation? Sometimes you have to consider a +/-3% margin of error. Well, I guess!

Dec 27, 2009, 04:02 AM

Guys, one question.

I have an Asus P5Q Deluxe mobo with 1 PCI-E x16 and 2 PCI-E x8. I'm running now an 5770 on the main slot, but I'm thinking to buy another card and Crossfire-it. The question is, are those 2 cards going to run on x8 or only one of them? I'm also curious what's the performance drop between x16/x16, x16/x8 and x8/x8

thanks.

Sep 24, 2009, 08:53 AM	#26
Mussels Doctor Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bendigo, Australia (NOT THE USA) Posts: 34,594 (10.89/day) Thanks: 3,708 Thanked 8,714 Times in 6,407 Posts System Specs	i tried telling people i only took a 10% performance hit on a 4x slot when i ran a 16x/4x crossfire setup, and no one beleived me. that was with 4870s on a 1.1 motherboard, at least i finally have someone else with similar findings now. __________________ Edumacational thread about PC Audio My external HDD's.5x samsung 1TB + 2x Seagate 1.5TB = 8 TB external storage 32 Bit OS vs 64 bit OS information How to get hardware accelerated H264 playback (DXVA) Netbook Owners United!

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Sep 24, 2009, 11:24 AM	#29
qubit Overclocked quantum bit Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Quantumville UK Posts: 8,719 (4.31/day) Thanks: 4,216 Thanked 3,334 Times in 1,970 Posts System Specs	Really useful review, thanks. If the difference between 8x & 16x is so small on this new beast of a card, I'm sure that it practically disappears on older, slower cards (eg 8800 GTX, HD4850 etc) which most people will currently have. Therefore, we don't have to worry about losing performance in 8x mode. Last edited by qubit; Sep 24, 2009 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Typos

Sep 24, 2009, 10:14 AM	#27
W1zzard Benevolent Dictator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 13,865 (4.17/day) Thanks: 184 Thanked 10,448 Times in 3,216 Posts System Specs	i'll have the cf x8 and x4 numbers today as well

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Sep 24, 2009, 11:49 AM	#30
W1zzard Benevolent Dictator Join Date: May 2004 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 13,865 (4.17/day) Thanks: 184 Thanked 10,448 Times in 3,216 Posts System Specs	in x8 2.0 .. x8 1.1 is equivalent to x4 2.0

Sep 24, 2009, 01:15 PM	#31
T3kl0rd Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 397 (0.25/day) Thanks: 22 Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts System Specs	Great article. Can't wait for the CF results. Seeing as how I am choosing a X58 mobo over P55, it will be interesting to see the percentage decrease, to say the least. 10% or so is reason enough for me to go X58.

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Sep 25, 2009, 04:19 AM	#32
yogurt_21 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,058 (1.52/day) Thanks: 2,249 Thanked 542 Times in 443 Posts System Specs	very interesting. I find it comforting that my 16x 1.1 bus will not penalize me nearly at all should I end up getting one of these cards. based on current budgeting, it seems to be ahard push to get anew gpou and upgrade cpu/mobo/memeory. thanks!

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Sep 25, 2009, 10:35 PM	#33
sethk Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 63 (0.03/day) Thanks: 2 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	This is interesting because it gives you a preview of how well it could work in a ExpressCard docking station solution for a laptop, where you could conceivable game with a 5850/5870 connected to your latop through ExpressCard (essentially PCIe 1x), with better framerates than almost anything available for most laptops.

Sep 26, 2009, 01:29 AM	#34
the_pharaoh Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6 (0.00/day) Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"Buy one of these accelerators now, and give them a neighborhood when they become more affordable, and you will have secured yourself future-proofing for quite long." Wow, what on earth does that even mean? Proof-reading please.

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Sep 28, 2009, 06:26 PM	#38
Bo_Fox Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Barack Hussein Obama-Biden's Nation Posts: 499 (0.34/day) Thanks: 166 Thanked 59 Times in 39 Posts System Specs	Awesome article.. havent seen an article like that in years! Kudos, W1z and btarunr!

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Oct 1, 2009, 12:28 PM	#39
stupido Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Belgium Posts: 140 (0.10/day) Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts System Specs	well, if possible, I would like to see the impact of chipset too... I mean compared P45, P55 and X58? this review was done on i7 machine, but what on i5 machine or Core2Quad?

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Oct 10, 2009, 01:15 PM	#41
matrices Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1 (0.00/day) Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I'm a little confused by the analysis. Does your x4 simulation accurately emulate the actual x4 on the P55 PCH? In a review of x16/x4 P55 boards (Asus and Gigabyte), you wrote: "The top slot gets a full 16 lanes of PCIe 2.0 from the CPU, while the second slot harnesses four of the not-quite-second-gen PCI Express lanes built into the PCH. Intel labels the P55's eight PCI Express lanes as 2.0, but they only signal at 2.5GT/s—gen-one speed. That's still plenty of bandwidth for Gigabit Ethernet and most reasonable auxiliary storage configurations. However, it might be a hindrance to CrossFire configurations." I can't decipher that. Four "not-quite-second-gen" PCI-E lanes? So these are x4 PCI-E 1.0 lanes, not x4 PCI-E 2.0 lanes? Are they the same type that you measured in this simulation? And since some P55 boards have 8/8/4, is the "4" from there the same speed as the "4" in the board you reviewed above? Anandtech has already done the CF test with ATI 5870 in 16/16 versus 8/8, and we already know the difference is negligible there. What would be truly interesting is to test Tri-Fire and CF with Physx (with the hack) in 16/16/16 versus 8/8/4 (whatever "4" that may be). Also, while the continuing usefulness of the x8 slot means that older 750i/680i SLI boards and Intel P35 boards will not be bottlenecked by PCI-E bandwidth, the C2D and C2Q are definitely bottlenecked to some degree by SLI and CF, period. Very few people have done the analysis but there's an article at Guru3D conclusively demonstrating that in some games, dual-card CF/SLI is 50% more effective on the i7 than the C2D/Q. And Tri-SLI (and therefore presumably Tri-CF) is almost completely wasted on non i7/i5 chipsets, according to the numbers.

Oct 12, 2009, 01:54 AM	#42
sideeffect Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 72 (0.02/day) Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Nice article, it was very informative. Out of interest if you run PCI-E 2.0 8x at 125MHz Bus speed does that increase the bandwidth to 5 GB/s?

Oct 27, 2009, 08:39 PM	#43
Bo_Fox Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Barack Hussein Obama-Biden's Nation Posts: 499 (0.34/day) Thanks: 166 Thanked 59 Times in 39 Posts System Specs	Once again, an awesome article!

Nov 14, 2009, 04:02 PM	#44
Calle2003 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 9 (0.01/day) Thanks: 2 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts System Specs	What's up with Dawn of War 2 1280x1024 2xAA 8xAF? x4 and x8 fares better than x16!

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Nov 15, 2009, 11:42 PM	#45
Bo_Fox Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: Barack Hussein Obama-Biden's Nation Posts: 499 (0.34/day) Thanks: 166 Thanked 59 Times in 39 Posts System Specs	^^ Hmm, what do you mean?

Nov 25, 2009, 05:13 PM	#47
Geofrancis Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SCOTLAND! Posts: 949 (0.61/day) Thanks: 98 Thanked 142 Times in 111 Posts System Specs	i am glad somone did an article like this it proves that my hd 4850 runs fine in my J&W MITX 780G board that only has 4x pci-e 2.0 slot along with all the next generation graphics cards. on another note why are none of the new ati graphics cards single slot? that was one of the great features of the card. __________________ machine XII AMD Phenom II x6 1155t, 8Gb XMS3 1600,Asus M4A88TD-M EVO/USB3, HD5970, 128gb sandisk SSD, mcubed t-balancer,water cooled HP EliteBook 2530p SL9400 Core 2 Duo ULV @ 0.9v, 4Gb ddr2, 80Gb Intel X-18m G2, 64Gb express card SSD, Ubiquiti SR71-E 400mw wifi, 21mb HSPA+ ESXI Server Intel i5 2400, Asus P8H67-M, 12Gb ddr3, IBM M1015 sas, Dell sas 6i, 10 drive 8tb UNRAID array. Old Builds :watercooled matx rig\|Water Cooled ITX rig \|EeePC 701 7" netbook \| ITX Gaming raid build Last edited by Geofrancis; Nov 25, 2009 at 05:37 PM.

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Dec 27, 2009, 04:02 AM	#50
TAViX Guest Posts: n/a (0/day)	Guys, one question. I have an Asus P5Q Deluxe mobo with 1 PCI-E x16 and 2 PCI-E x8. I'm running now an 5770 on the main slot, but I'm thinking to buy another card and Crossfire-it. The question is, are those 2 cards going to run on x8 or only one of them? I'm also curious what's the performance drop between x16/x16, x16/x8 and x8/x8 thanks.

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