Good news For ATI? / Bad news for Nvidia?

[20mmrain]

ACCORDING TO A REPORT at Semiaccurate, Nvidia's Fermi GPU chip has recently been downsized.

Nvidia has had to cut back its Fermi GPU because of the chip's low wafer yields and its high heat output, if the latest reports are to believed.

Fermi has long been thought to be too hot to handle and Nvidia has now cut down the number of stream processors to 448 instead of the previous 512, and it has admitted that the GPU chip will be a 225 Watt part. Nvidia's own Fermi information pages still show it as having 512 SPs, but according to a recent PDF this is no longer the case.

Semiaccurate thinks Nvidia cut back the number of stream processors either because the Fermi chip can't be produced in volume with less than two major flaws in its SP array or its power draw and heat output were just too much for Nvidia's graphics board partners to deal with, or both. Those reasons do sound plausible.

But really, a single GPU chip that draws 225W maximum and reportedly 190W gaming average is going to run hot and be hard to cool. Let's just put it this way, we wouldn't fancy leaving the thing running on top of some dried newspaper and kindling.

Update In response to readers' valid comments, we have revised the foregoing paragraph in recognition that other high-end graphics chips have similarly high maximum power draws, and we've amended other text below. However, for just one example, Nvidia's GTX280 graphics chip has been reported to pull less than 150W running 3DMark06, or just over 75 per cent of what Fermi is expected to draw in typical gaming. So we stand by our general opinion that Fermi is going to be a very hot graphics chip when it finally appears, and not in a good way. - Ed.

This new information makes some of the praise that's still on Nvidia's Fermi information page look a little odd. "Fermi surpasses anything announced by Nvidia's leading GPU competitor (AMD)", said Tom Halfhill, senior analyst and editor at Microprocessor Report. Dave Patterson, the director of the parallel computing research laboratory at UC Berkeley, added, "I believe history will record Fermi as a significant milestone."

Maybe not so much a milestone as a millstone, perhaps. Fermi is starting to seem like a GPU chip too far.

What seems certain is that Nvidia's fab partner TSMC is finding it challenging, to say the least, to manufacture the chip, and that it will have to be cooled by a massive heat-piped heatsink and likely multiple fans, if not a waterblock or a more exotic cooling method like phase-change refrigeration.

Whether this will all work out for the Green Goblin remains to be seen. But at this point it looks as though Nvidia's Fermi GPU chip might be delayed again. µ

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-fermi-gpu-cut

Being someone who prefers ATI over Nvidia..... Is this finally going to be the time that ATI takes back the crown? Or is this a sign that Nvidia's new Femi is so powerful that it just can't be contained?

I posted similar threads in both Nvidia and ATI forums to hear from both sides.....

Enjoy .....FTW ATI!

[Mussels]

moved the thread to "graphics cards" which is where all threads belong if they arent ATI or Nvidia specific.

Look, now you get both camps replies in the one thread!



on topic:


This isnt good. 225W load on the cut down model? thats insanely stupid. the heat output will be enough to melt warranty stickers off half the PC.

[BUCK NASTY]

Remember that this is the same source(Semiaccurate) that stated DFI was leaving the consumer Mobo business, which ended up being false. Don't you just love speculation.

[XxAtlasxX]

Even if I prefer ATi, this is not good for anywone...
If Ferni fails, then Ati will set the prices because of the lack of competition

[crazyeyesreaper]

fermi will still be competitive performance wise but i highly doubt nvidia can handle a low cost chip basically there bigger is better attitude has bitten them in the arse this time around

[3volvedcombat]

I just read that is was from Semiaccurate and being stubburn as i am, with 3 nvidia cards in my rig now, i basicly go for green, and i really dont belive this is true, but on the other hand were talking 512stream procs, with dedicated GPU Cache(makes it hotter), so its ganna be expensive to produce, and expensive to cool down. Cards are getting so fast now, that they might as well make a program that disabled a certian number of cores apon request or automaticly, while gaming and desktop surfing.

[Divide Overflow]

This report looks to be true from a number of different sources, NVIDIA included. It's just too difficult to get good yields from the original Fermi plan. These buggers are going to be hot and power hungry enough as it is even in their cut down form. I fully expect for them to be competitive performance wise, but will loose out big time on general availability (you thought HD5XXX's were hard to get?) thermals, performance per $ and performance per watt.

I really hope that NVIDIA is able to bring this to market before too long and keep some pressure on ATI. We all benefit from healthy competition!

[a_ump]

yep Nvidia pooped on their own foot with Fermi it seems. BUT!!! they may fail somewhat this gen, but if they're smart, and htey are, they're going to learn from all the mistakes they've made with fermi and the following gen(GTX 4XX) will be much better and more refined. I believe that ATI will win this gen hands down. But i think its the next gen that will be another heated battle like HD 4XXX vs GTX 2XX.

[20mmrain]

CC on moving the thread to Graphics cards.... I wasn't sure on where I should have it located .... so thanks for clearing that up in the future if I do something like this again..... I will know

As far as this goes..... sure there are more reliable sites out there...... but I still love to hear people speculate..... Regardless it still could be true. But that is why I stated it the way I did.....

It could really either mean two things..... Either ATI will win performance the first time in a long time..... Or it means that Femi is just so hardcore that it can't be contained. Either way I think it will be a win.

At least for me it will be!

yep Nvidia pooped on their own foot with Fermi it seems. BUT!!! they may fail somewhat this gen, but if they're smart, and htey are, they're going to learn from all the mistakes they've made with fermi and the following gen(GTX 4XX) will be much better and more refined. I believe that ATI will win this gen hands down. But i think its the next gen that will be another heated battle like HD 4XXX vs GTX 2XX.

+1 I didn't really know at one time..... but the more and more that comes out about these cards....... It just sounds like Nvidia should just skip GTX300 and move straight to the GTX400. By the time they get released anyway they will be up against the HD 6870. Or getting close to it.
I'm sure that it might be a very powerful card!!! But it just sounds like they can't get it stable. What's the point of manufacturing a card that either (A.) it will cost so much because of the production costs and the failure rate.... Or (B.) Even if they do get it out.... with it being so unstable ( in speculation) that they might have to deal with a million RMA's.

Even if they have to drop the specs a little I am sure it will still be a power house! If I owned the company and these problems were really happening..... I would rather drop the specs a little and get something out..... then wait and lose even more of the market!

[department76]

Originally Posted by 20mmrain

If I owned the company and these problems were really happening..... I would rather drop the specs a little and get something out..... then wait and lose even more of the market!

if i owned the company (really, company stock) then i'd be selling right now.

too much BS from nvidia and no results --> poor investment.

[HossHuge]

Originally Posted by XxAtlasxX

Even if I prefer ATi, this is not good for anywone...
If Ferni fails, then Ati will set the prices because of the lack of competition

I agree. There's no way ATI will drop prices if the green party fails to deliver a decent, competitive product.

I must say when I saw that this was from the Inquirer I thought for sure it would be written by a guy named Charlie D.

[TheMailMan78]

Well ATI does have an ace now. AMD. They may have something to do with the price/performance of the 5xxx series.

[FordGT90Concept]

NVIDIAs big hammer for a big problem strategy rears its ugly head again. NVIDIA hasn't done anything right for two years now. Time to start firing people, me thinks.

[El Fiendo]

Originally Posted by HossHuge

I must say when I saw that this was from the Inquirer I thought for sure it would be written by a guy named Charlie D.

It was by Charlie D. The Inquirer reporter quoted Charlie and his website as its sole source of information.

[HossHuge]

Originally Posted by El Fiendo

It was by Charlie D. The Inquirer reporter quoted Charlie and his website as its sole source of information.

Go figure!! He must have jumped ship.

[kid41212003]

Before reading the thread, I looked at the sources, and if any of them contain:

theinquirer
or
semiaccurate

I simple ignored reading any of it.