Weird PCI Express x16 @ x1 problem

[baholete]

For about 1 month now i have a weird problem with my computer. PC specs are core2duo e4500 (2.4ghz), 2gbram ddr2, an asus mobo p5ld2-se and an asus v.card en8600gts silent.

Almost every time when i start it i need to reboot it once (force reboot from the button). When it's being started the first time he gives out 4 weird beeping sounds and just stays like that until restarted. After the manual reboot everything worked normal ... or so i thought.
Yesterday i found out something weird about the problem. I've installed Gpu-Z cause i wanna upgrade my video card and i noticed that my video card pci express slot was running at x1 speed instead of x16. Had no idea that this is related to the problem. Searched google for a good while for some solutions but none of them worked.
Today, my pc started without problems (no need for force restart, it happens to start like this rarely) and starting GPU-Z i noticed the slot running at full x16 speed. I thought maybe that the change to the slot frequency (from bios) fixed it but at next start of computer (with a forced restart) it was back at x1 speed.

So, every time when the pc starts from first try the pci express slot runs normally at x16 speed. When the first start fails and i need to force restart, it works at x1 speed. I don't know if anyone knows what x1 speed does, so ill give a small example: running youtube movies at higher then 480p resolutions effectively crashes the browser, it lags like hell. I have to start task manager and end the process.

Sry for the wall of text, i wanted to be sure that i explained this very well, so maybe i can get help from anyone that encountered this problem before or heard of it. Help please

[W1zzard]

power saving switches off pcie lanes .. put some 3d load on the card

why is it that basically every day someone asks teh same question? what can i change in the user interface to make this more clear?

[baholete]

I'm sorry, i know you're helping me here and that the answer is clear for you, but i have no idea what you just said.
What exactly is the problem? And what can i do to fix it?
Why is it that sometimes (rarely) it starts fine and sometimes it doesn't?
Sorry if i'm annoying you.

Edit: ok, i understood what you said and i tried it. The slot stood constantly at x1 speed what ever i pushed at the card... and it works like sh1t. From what i understood, x1 speed is even slower then AGPx1 which is ancient.

And i believe you didn't read all my post, you just jumped to that conclusion. The only moment the slot works at x16 speed si when the pc starts without failing at first. And when it starts like that, the slot is constantly at x16 no matter of power saving or w/e you can think of. I was thinking of maybe updating the mobo bios, but this problem appeared about a month ago, it worked fine until then. Is it maybe some faulty hardware? And if yes, why not always? And what could be the problem? Mobo or video card?

[baholete]

No one that can help me?

[Mussels]

some times you get a bad mobo or card (or just a bad connection) and it drops to 1x.

the rest of the time, its just power saving slowing it down - and its asked about a looooot.


try blowing any dust out of the slot, and cleaning the cards copper contacts with a dry cloth.

[baholete]

Ok, understood. Gonna turn off the pc and clean it up. Gonna come up with the result later.

[baholete]

Nope, same problem. The pc fails the first start like in 95% of cases and pci express slot is stuck at x1 speed.

Maybe i should mention that, i had this problem since like forever. More exactly, i used to have a faulty start once every week or so. When this happened i used to turn off the power completely to the pc (unplug the power cord) for a few minutes then it would work normally for another week.
But since 1 month ago the roles kinda reversed. It starts normally about once a week or so. And when it happens this, the slot works normally at x16 speed and all of the time until next restart. And cutting the power solution doesn't work anymore.
Does this look like broken mobo? Or video card? I'll go test the card today at a friend and see how it works.

[FreedomEclipse]

sounds like a possible PSU issues - one of my friends use to have a similar issue with cold starts all the time because the power supply he was using wasnt good enough for the job - that changed when he got a new one though.

whats the wattage & the make/brand name of your powersupply??

[qubit]

Sounds like you have a hardware fault. The most likely culprits are the mobo, PSU & graphics card in that order.

FreedEclipse's PSU question is pertinent and should be answered.

Also, please fill out your system specs (accurately and detailed) so people can help you better.

[baholete]

No idea what brand it is but it's a pretty old one. It is from an old computer that got an upgrade. Only the chasis, psu and hdd were kept from it. It writes on the sticker on it "total output is 330W max."
I wanna get a new v.card anyway, a hd5770 so i guess a new psu is needed anyway. But, is this really the problem?

PC specs:
Proc: core2duo e4500 (2.4ghz),
Motherboard: asus p5ld2-se
Ram: 1+1 GB ddr2 800 kingmax
V. card: asus en8600gts silent 256mb

Anything else that u want to know and is relevant here?

[FreedomEclipse]

the psu would the the issue then im guessing

The minimum requirements are :

Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 22 Amp Amps.)

The Amperes on the +12V rail(s) are as important as the Wattage.

if the power supply your using is a really really old one then chances are its highly likely that that would be causing the issues

.:EDIT:.

most sites recommend having at least 450watts

[baholete]

I would believe so but then again, why did it worked fine for ~1 year or so?
Anyway, im goin' now to a friend and im gonna test everything. First his PSU on my system, then my v card on his. This should show which of psu, mobo or v card is the culprit.

[FreedomEclipse]

everything works fine untill you push them so hard they eventually break down. & this is what seems to be the case here.

[baholete]

Posting with new PSU now, it behaves exactly the same. So it isn't the PSU problem. Gonna try my v card on his system now.

Freedom, none of the components were overcloacked.

[baholete]

His system didn't even start with my video card and my system started perfectly with his 8800gts.

So the video card is busted. Is it any danger to my other components if i continue to use it until i get a new card?

[FreedomEclipse]

I wouldnt risk it personally. & i would still recommend getting a new PSU as that 'unbranded' 330watt amp seriously limits your choices for upgrade as you have to pick the card that consumes the least amount of power.

Even if you cant afford the higher end units - even a lowly Corsair CX400 (400watts) its still amazing value for money, has the right amount of amps & should be able to power most non-high end systems.

I wouldnt trust your current powersupply - buying a well known brand might cost more but you can garantee that all the components in it are top grade & is something you can trust even when it does come to overlocking.

Just because the powersupply is cheap doesnt mean quality parts went into it. & if the powersupply fails to regulate the voltage it could may well kill your pc

[qubit]

Originally Posted by baholete

Posting with new PSU now, it behaves exactly the same. So it isn't the PSU problem. Gonna try my v card on his system now.

Freedom, none of the components were overcloacked.

So what is this "new" PSU then? Is it another underpowered and well-used no-name brand? You have to be more specific if you want quality help.

Most likely the problem is a combination of dodgy motherboard and/or dodgy PSU.

Fill in your specs too please, like I advised.

Giving out vague info is just wasting everyone's time.

[baholete]

The new PSU was my friends, a 400W one but sadly, i did not look at what brand it is. Anyway, his pc works perfect so, if my PSU was the problem it shoudl've worked fine with his.

Now i have another problem, i'm gonna lay out the tests that i've done in order.

1) Firstly, i used his PSU on my pc and it behaved identical as with my own PSU;
2) Secondly, i installed my video card on his system but it didn't worked. The pc started, you could hear it loading and entering windows but the monitor didn't lit up;
3) Thirdly, i installed his asus 8800gts on my pc and it worked flawlessly. Even with my underpowered PSU. I even shut down the pc a few times and started again to be sure it works fine. Not even once did the computer failed to start;
4) He gave me a spear video card he had in his house, an older ati card (x800 or x1150, something like this anyway) and, surprise surprise, i had the same problem again. The pc failing to start every time and pci express port running at x1 speed.

My specs are posted above, if u need to know anything else that is relevant i can say.
This problem is worthy of x-files, at least from my point of view. With his asus 8800gts pc worked perfect. With my asus 8600gts or his x1150 ati card the pc fails to start every time. His monitor does not lit up with my video card on his system.
So, what the hell is wrong here? Maybe just the motherboard?

[FreedomEclipse]

Originally Posted by baholete

4) He gave me a spear video card he had in his house, an older ati card (x800 or x1150, something like this anyway) and, surprise surprise, i had the same problem again. The pc failing to start every time and pci express port running at x1 speed.

well that doesnt help much, the X800 is a more power hungry card & requires at least 480watts to be on the safe side. The X1150 is a radeon mobility card last time i looked so it couldnt of been that one as they only come with laptops.

------

stop using unbranded power supply units as the unit stats are very often misleading so you dont actually know if it has the same power output it claims it does. unlike a more well know brand such as Antec, Corsair or OCZ etc etc.

[Mussels]

theres no danger, i've ran cards with this problem before.


my advice, is to look at w1zzards reviews on either the GTX 280 or HD 5870 where he tested PCI-express scaling - i've noticed some cards/boards with this issue can be 'fixed' by taping over some of the PCI-E lanes - you know, the card doesnt work at 16x so it drops to 1x, but thats not to say 4x or 8x wont work fine.

[baholete]

Originally Posted by FreedomEclipse

stop using unbranded power supply units as the unit stats are very often misleading so you dont actually know if it has the same power output it claims it does. unlike a more well know brand such as Antec, Corsair or OCZ etc etc.

Let's forget for a second about the PSU brand. Just explain me this:
Why is the 8800gts working on my pc flawlessly and the 8600gts plus the x<something> old ati card aren't, while on his pc both the 8800gts and the ati card work while the 8600 doesn't lit the monitor?
Only conclusion i can draw is that his mobo had a compatibility issue with my 8600gts and my mobo has a hardware problem.. But then again, WHY did his 8800gts worked perfect on my mobo?

And btw, i started my pc using his more powerful and 'branded' PSU and i still had the same problem...

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by baholete

Let's forget for a second about the PSU brand. Just explain me this:
Why is the 8800gts working on my pc flawlessly and the 8600gts plus the x<something> old ati card aren't, while on his pc both the 8800gts and the ati card work while the 8600 doesn't lit the monitor?
Only conclusion i can draw is that his mobo had a compatibility issue with my 8600gts and my mobo has a hardware problem.. But then again, WHY did his 8800gts worked perfect on my mobo?

And btw, i started my pc using his more powerful and 'branded' PSU and i still had the same problem...

please read the post i made just above yours - i've dealt with this issue before, whereas most people in this thread are relying on logic and intuition.

[baholete]

Originally Posted by Mussels

please read the post i made just above yours - i've dealt with this issue before, whereas most people in this thread are relying on logic and intuition.

I understand what ur saying, to start the card on x4 or x8 but then again, what if somewhere down the line i'm gonna start having the same problem as with x16? I want to know what exactly is the problem so i can fully fix it, not a cheap bypass.

Like i said, until a month ago it worked perfect, like it should, to it's fullest (the pc). Since then, something broke. Something that makes my pc fail to start in 95% of cases (or even more) and i have to force restart it to work. But when i do this, the pci express slot works at x1 speed. If the pc starts from first try, the slot works at x16 normal speed.
WHAT the hell broke? I'm ripping hair from my head over here, help me ppl

What should i buy? A new psu (this will be changed certainly anyway)? A new mobo? A new videocard?

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by baholete

I understand what ur saying, to start the card on x4 or x8 but then again, what if somewhere down the line i'm gonna start having the same problem as with x16? I want to know what exactly is the problem so i can fully fix it, not a cheap bypass.

Like i said, until a month ago it worked perfect, like it should, to it's fullest (the pc). Since then, something broke. Something that makes my pc fail to start in 95% of cases (or even more) and i have to force restart it to work. But when i do this, the pci express slot works at x1 speed. If the pc starts from first try, the slot works at x16 normal speed.
WHAT the hell broke? I'm ripping hair from my head over here, help me ppl

What should i buy? A new psu (this will be changed certainly anyway)? A new mobo? A new videocard?

the problem is the cards bad. you cant fix it. your testing already confirmed its the GPU thats the problem.

And theres nothing to say the problem wont re-occur later at 8x or 4x... but who cares, you'd get another 6 months out of it.

[baholete]

Ok, so, why did i have the same problem with the ati card? Does it have exactly the same problem?
And this ati card works perfect on his pc.