World Community Grid/F@H: Crunching for the Cure... or are we?

hat · May 21, 2010, 12:57 AM

A lot of us here run either World Community Grid, F@H, or both, myself included, which is a great thing, and I admire our efforts. Similarly, a lot of us overclock our rigs. Processors, graphics cards, memory, all... presonally, I find myself tweaking whatever can be tweaked to get every ounce of performance out of it... not because I have to, but because I can, and because the faster my components are, the more work I do.

Now, this too is a great thing, but I have seen the topic of 'old school' and 'new school' overclocking argued countless times. Myself, coming from the old school, am sure to say that the new school method is wrong, because the new school meathod seems to be strictly trial and error—set something and roll with it. If something errors, change it. Now, that's fine if that's how you roll, but consider this: if you run your system this way, not knowing whether it's truly stable or not, how can you be sure you're not sending in bad results to the WCG/F@H servers? Sure, they send the same work unit out and compare the results for differences, but there's two problems with this. The first problem is it's possible for something to slip through, as with any system. The second problem is that if you're sending in work units that are getting thrown out in the end, you would be doing much more work running at stock than overclocked.

Anyways, my point being made, I encourage each and every one of you, if you havn't already, to thoroughly test your overclocks. Run LinX overnight, and if it errors, do something to correct it—back down the clocks, change voltages, whatever. Same with your GPU... run the OCCT GPU test for a while, like set it to run before you go take a shower, and check it when you get back. I usually take about 20 minutes once everything's said and done, this should be enough time to expose any errors. If it errors, back down your clocks.

Links to some stability tests:
tests provided by Stanford: http://folding.stanford.edu/English/DownloadUtils
OCCT: http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika_en/index.php?Download
LinX: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=201670

monitor temps with realtemp and gpu-z
http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

dark2099 · May 21, 2010, 01:06 AM

Might want to change the title, I thought your thread was going to be about if Folding & crunching are worth while.

hat · May 21, 2010, 01:10 AM

That's kind of my point. It's not worthwhile if the work is being done by not-so-stable rigs.

mjkmike · May 21, 2010, 01:28 AM

I think you bring a very good point to the surface.
I stress and stress every clock and at times even the ones that pass 24 test still fail on a few WCG units or my rig overheats. Some like to avoid work units that give errors but to me that just tells me my rig just isn't 100%.
I am doing this now. The 1055t and the I7930 haven't done a full 24h test the lower clocks have but the new ones no not at this time.

[Ion] · May 21, 2010, 01:56 AM

My rule for OCs is that it must pass 8 hours of LinX, 8 hours each of Prime 95 Small FFTs, Large FFTs, and blend. If it passes this, it's fully ready to go for F@H/WCG

mjkmike · May 21, 2010, 08:01 AM

Just got home and the I7 failed Prime 95 blend. clocking her down to 4.0
Thanks for the reminder Hat. Also I realy need to find a new home away from the main rig that vents strait at her.

FordGT90Concept · May 21, 2010, 08:12 AM

I've always firmly believed overclocking and science don't mix. Overclocking increases the likelihood of errors and good science doesn't tolerate errors. The 25% performance gain by overclocking is easily lost on wasting 4 hours of CPU time with a completed task being invalidated.

mjkmike · May 21, 2010, 08:25 AM

There has to be a fine line, just how much is too much. This is T POWERUP we will push.

Bo$$ · May 21, 2010, 08:44 AM

how do they know if a work unit is invalid?

hat · May 21, 2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo$$

how do they know if a work unit is invalid?

They send the same work unit out to a bunch of machines and compare results.

[Ion] · May 21, 2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hat

They send the same work unit out to a bunch of machines and compare results.

2 or 3, typically, although I think it's more for HCMD2 and was more for RICE as well

thebluebumblebee · May 21, 2010, 02:54 PM

hat, how about some links in the above? Also, F@H has 2 tests available to test your system. A memory test for Nvidia cards and a CPU stress test, if anyone's looking for another way to test. Link

hat · May 21, 2010, 07:03 PM

When memtestg80 asks for your memory clock... do you put the in the speed before or after DDR?

thebluebumblebee · May 21, 2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hat

When memtestg80 asks for your memory clock... do you put the in the speed before or after DDR?

Just a guess, but I'd say before. http://fah-web.stanford.edu/MemtestG...G80-readme.txt

hat · May 21, 2010, 08:05 PM

gah, now I can't figure out how to make it use more than 128mb vram...

occt has a similar test that works fine, though

thebluebumblebee · May 21, 2010, 08:32 PM

For example, to run MemtestG80 over 256 megabytes of RAM, with 100 test
iterations, execute the following command:

MemtestG80 256 100

hat · May 22, 2010, 07:30 PM

If I do that, the program just crashes when it starts the test...

Chicken Patty · May 24, 2010, 02:00 AM

I usually test my overclocks with WCG. Never had any rig return errors, if it crashed I adjust it and that's it. You spend 8 hours stress testing or more you are not returning any results. You had a rig crash one or twice in 8 hours, at least you got something done. But of course that's my two cents, In no way do I want to start a arguement, I truly respect hats opinion. However, I would just consider myself new school I guess.

garyinhere · Jun 9, 2010, 01:14 AM

I'm the same way... no need to prime for 24 hrs if it is crunching without errors or crashing. I just watch temps!

theonedub · Jun 9, 2010, 01:18 AM

I have never Prime'd for 24hrs, however I will not run WCG without some sort of stability testing done first.

All I do is OCCT the CPU for 90-120 minutes and if it passes I let it rip on WCG 24/7 and watch my results. I have yet to return an invalid WU due to OC

hat · Jun 9, 2010, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Patty

I usually test my overclocks with WCG. Never had any rig return errors, if it crashed I adjust it and that's it. You spend 8 hours stress testing or more you are not returning any results. You had a rig crash one or twice in 8 hours, at least you got something done. But of course that's my two cents, In no way do I want to start a arguement, I truly respect hats opinion. However, I would just consider myself new school I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyinhere

I'm the same way... no need to prime for 24 hrs if it is crunching without errors or crashing. I just watch temps!

You are doing it wrong. I very strongly argue against this. I don't care what you do with your own data, but if you're handling work units on a possibly unstable computer, you're possibly playing with lives because you were too lazy to run a good test for a while. One day max of time spent testing and not computing work units is nothing compared to a lifetime of corrupt results generated from a bad overclock.

garyinhere · Jun 9, 2010, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hat

You are doing it wrong. I very strongly argue against this. I don't care what you do with your own data, but if you're handling work units on a possibly unstable computer, you're possibly playing with lives because you were too lazy to run a good test for a while. One day max of time spent testing and not computing work units is nothing compared to a lifetime of corrupt results generated from a bad overclock.

Did you really jst call me lazy... do you know the amount of hours i put into oc'ing my computer? Do you know the hours of research i have done. I respect your opinion but it's your and no need to call me or anyone else names... especially when you don't know what your talking about!

AthlonX2 · Jun 9, 2010, 02:16 AM

your all folding and crunching to help north korea build nuclear weapons you just dont know it yet

rick22 · Jun 9, 2010, 02:24 AM

Rock on teabag...new info everyday...i love my life..

erocker · Jun 9, 2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hat

You are doing it wrong. I very strongly argue against this. I don't care what you do with your own data, but if you're handling work units on a possibly unstable computer, you're possibly playing with lives because you were too lazy to run a good test for a while. One day max of time spent testing and not computing work units is nothing compared to a lifetime of corrupt results generated from a bad overclock.

The fact that you are taking someone's good intentions and equating it to "Playing with people's lives" is shameful.

You have no right to call someone else lazy, you are not them. Lighten up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AthlonX2

your all folding and crunching to help north korea build nuclear weapons you just dont know it yet

Not really appropriate.

May 21, 2010, 12:57 AM	#1
hat Maximum Overclocker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,247 (5.10/day) Thanks: 2,056 Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,555 Posts System Specs	World Community Grid/F@H: Crunching for the Cure... or are we? A lot of us here run either World Community Grid, F@H, or both, myself included, which is a great thing, and I admire our efforts. Similarly, a lot of us overclock our rigs. Processors, graphics cards, memory, all... presonally, I find myself tweaking whatever can be tweaked to get every ounce of performance out of it... not because I have to, but because I can, and because the faster my components are, the more work I do. Now, this too is a great thing, but I have seen the topic of 'old school' and 'new school' overclocking argued countless times. Myself, coming from the old school, am sure to say that the new school method is wrong, because the new school meathod seems to be strictly trial and error—set something and roll with it. If something errors, change it. Now, that's fine if that's how you roll, but consider this: if you run your system this way, not knowing whether it's truly stable or not, how can you be sure you're not sending in bad results to the WCG/F@H servers? Sure, they send the same work unit out and compare the results for differences, but there's two problems with this. The first problem is it's possible for something to slip through, as with any system. The second problem is that if you're sending in work units that are getting thrown out in the end, you would be doing much more work running at stock than overclocked. Anyways, my point being made, I encourage each and every one of you, if you havn't already, to thoroughly test your overclocks. Run LinX overnight, and if it errors, do something to correct it—back down the clocks, change voltages, whatever. Same with your GPU... run the OCCT GPU test for a while, like set it to run before you go take a shower, and check it when you get back. I usually take about 20 minutes once everything's said and done, this should be enough time to expose any errors. If it errors, back down your clocks. Links to some stability tests: tests provided by Stanford: http://folding.stanford.edu/English/DownloadUtils OCCT: http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika_en/index.php?Download LinX: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=201670 monitor temps with realtemp and gpu-z http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/ http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/ __________________ My Heatware “Inb4 smartphone LN2 overclocking.” -radrok Last edited by hat; May 21, 2010 at 04:22 PM.

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May 21, 2010, 01:06 AM	#2
dark2099 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: where everyone wants to be Posts: 4,170 (2.14/day) Thanks: 474 Thanked 762 Times in 632 Posts System Specs	Might want to change the title, I thought your thread was going to be about if Folding & crunching are worth while. __________________ Heatware Check out Gomez Peer on how to make your PC work for you. Referred by dark2099 please! Mini Rig: Biostar TP67XE / i5 2500k / Corsair H55 / 2x4GB PNY / XFX 7770 / Corsair CX500M / Win 8 64 bit / Thermaltake V9 Blackwidow

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May 21, 2010, 01:10 AM	#3
hat Maximum Overclocker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,247 (5.10/day) Thanks: 2,056 Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,555 Posts System Specs	That's kind of my point. It's not worthwhile if the work is being done by not-so-stable rigs. __________________ My Heatware “Inb4 smartphone LN2 overclocking.” -radrok

May 21, 2010, 01:28 AM	#4
mjkmike Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Alberta,Canada Posts: 1,485 (1.22/day) Thanks: 2,699 Thanked 3,755 Times in 983 Posts System Specs	I think you bring a very good point to the surface. I stress and stress every clock and at times even the ones that pass 24 test still fail on a few WCG units or my rig overheats. Some like to avoid work units that give errors but to me that just tells me my rig just isn't 100%. I am doing this now. The 1055t and the I7930 haven't done a full 24h test the lower clocks have but the new ones no not at this time. __________________ Has anyone seen a thieving gremlin? Seriously, it comes in the night and steals my OC stability. Kiex

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May 21, 2010, 01:56 AM	#5
[Ion] WCG Team Assistant Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: North Carolina, US Posts: 10,790 (7.86/day) Thanks: 8,305 Thanked 9,484 Times in 4,320 Posts System Specs	My rule for OCs is that it must pass 8 hours of LinX, 8 hours each of Prime 95 Small FFTs, Large FFTs, and blend. If it passes this, it's fully ready to go for F@H/WCG __________________ Ion's WCG Essentials Thread Crunching (64 Threads + 896 CUDA Cores + 6272 Shaders): i3-2100@ 3.1 + HD7850 -- Atom D510 @ 1.66 -- C2D-M T9600 @ 2.8 -- i7-3612QM @ 2.8 -- i7-860 @ 2.9 + HD7950 -- i7-2700k @ 4.4 + 2xGTX470 -- PentDC-M T4200 @ 2.0 -- i7-920 @ 3.83 + 3xHD7770 -- DP Xeon E5420 @ 2.5 + HD7930 -- E1600 @ 2.4

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May 21, 2010, 08:01 AM	#6
mjkmike Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Alberta,Canada Posts: 1,485 (1.22/day) Thanks: 2,699 Thanked 3,755 Times in 983 Posts System Specs	Just got home and the I7 failed Prime 95 blend. clocking her down to 4.0 Thanks for the reminder Hat. Also I realy need to find a new home away from the main rig that vents strait at her. __________________ Has anyone seen a thieving gremlin? Seriously, it comes in the night and steals my OC stability. Kiex

May 21, 2010, 08:12 AM	#7
FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!" Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: IA, USA Posts: 10,651 (6.23/day) Thanks: 1,787 Thanked 2,632 Times in 1,986 Posts System Specs	I've always firmly believed overclocking and science don't mix. Overclocking increases the likelihood of errors and good science doesn't tolerate errors. The 25% performance gain by overclocking is easily lost on wasting 4 hours of CPU time with a completed task being invalidated. __________________ Golden Rule of Programming: Never assume. try { SteamDownload(); } catch (Steamception ex) { RageQuit(); }

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May 21, 2010, 08:25 AM	#8
mjkmike Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Alberta,Canada Posts: 1,485 (1.22/day) Thanks: 2,699 Thanked 3,755 Times in 983 Posts System Specs	There has to be a fine line, just how much is too much. This is T POWERUP we will push. __________________ Has anyone seen a thieving gremlin? Seriously, it comes in the night and steals my OC stability. Kiex

May 21, 2010, 08:44 AM	#9
Bo$$ Join Date: May 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,693 (2.46/day) Thanks: 444 Thanked 782 Times in 688 Posts System Specs	how do they know if a work unit is invalid? __________________ Live in the UK? Join the UK TPU Group! Caution! This is Sparta! Im Looking For... Im Selling

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May 21, 2010, 02:54 PM	#12
thebluebumblebee Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portland, OR USA Posts: 2,159 (1.19/day) Thanks: 1,568 Thanked 893 Times in 635 Posts System Specs	hat, how about some links in the above? Also, F@H has 2 tests available to test your system. A memory test for Nvidia cards and a CPU stress test, if anyone's looking for another way to test. Link

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May 21, 2010, 07:03 PM	#13
hat Maximum Overclocker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,247 (5.10/day) Thanks: 2,056 Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,555 Posts System Specs	When memtestg80 asks for your memory clock... do you put the in the speed before or after DDR? __________________ My Heatware “Inb4 smartphone LN2 overclocking.” -radrok

May 21, 2010, 08:05 PM	#15
hat Maximum Overclocker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,247 (5.10/day) Thanks: 2,056 Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,555 Posts System Specs	gah, now I can't figure out how to make it use more than 128mb vram... occt has a similar test that works fine, though __________________ My Heatware “Inb4 smartphone LN2 overclocking.” -radrok

May 21, 2010, 08:32 PM	#16
thebluebumblebee Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Portland, OR USA Posts: 2,159 (1.19/day) Thanks: 1,568 Thanked 893 Times in 635 Posts System Specs	For example, to run MemtestG80 over 256 megabytes of RAM, with 100 test iterations, execute the following command: MemtestG80 256 100

May 22, 2010, 07:30 PM	#17
hat Maximum Overclocker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 12,247 (5.10/day) Thanks: 2,056 Thanked 2,045 Times in 1,555 Posts System Specs	If I do that, the program just crashes when it starts the test... __________________ My Heatware “Inb4 smartphone LN2 overclocking.” -radrok

May 24, 2010, 02:00 AM	#18
Chicken Patty WCG Team Captain Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 23,926 (11.78/day) Thanks: 15,179 Thanked 12,324 Times in 7,786 Posts System Specs	I usually test my overclocks with WCG. Never had any rig return errors, if it crashed I adjust it and that's it. You spend 8 hours stress testing or more you are not returning any results. You had a rig crash one or twice in 8 hours, at least you got something done. But of course that's my two cents, In no way do I want to start a arguement, I truly respect hats opinion. However, I would just consider myself new school I guess. __________________ Help save lives, CRUNCH and/or FOLD for Team TPU and make a difference! Crunching with a 2600K, i7-950, FX-8120, Radeon 6850 (2 WU's), Radeon 7770 (4 WU's) *"AlienIsGOD - Awe!!! CP has grown from a small chicken nugget to the IMMENSE PATTY and WCG Team leader he is today"*

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Jun 9, 2010, 01:14 AM	#19
garyinhere Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: I'm roomates with Corey Feldman Posts: 1,260 (1.02/day) Thanks: 928 Thanked 790 Times in 447 Posts System Specs	I'm the same way... no need to prime for 24 hrs if it is crunching without errors or crashing. I just watch temps!

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Jun 9, 2010, 01:18 AM	#20
theonedub habe fidem Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern CA Posts: 6,668 (4.41/day) Thanks: 2,320 Thanked 3,219 Times in 1,937 Posts System Specs	I have never Prime'd for 24hrs, however I will not run WCG without some sort of stability testing done first. All I do is OCCT the CPU for 90-120 minutes and if it passes I let it rip on WCG 24/7 and watch my results. I have yet to return an invalid WU due to OC __________________ My Heatware Feedback 129+ Pristine

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Jun 9, 2010, 02:16 AM	#23
AthlonX2 Better Than You Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Toledo,Ohio Posts: 5,450 (2.22/day) Thanks: 730 Thanked 1,572 Times in 994 Posts System Specs	your all folding and crunching to help north korea build nuclear weapons you just dont know it yet

Jun 9, 2010, 02:24 AM	#24
rick22 Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 507 (0.20/day) Thanks: 326 Thanked 36 Times in 35 Posts System Specs	Rock on teabag...new info everyday...i love my life.. __________________ 10 trolls a day---> keeps the mods away

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Sound Card:	me
PSU:	ass farts
Software:	that sucks to
Benchmarks:	i'm so fat i sat on the bench and smashed assssit

Processor:	Intel i7 3770K @ 4.6ghz 1.256v
Motherboard:	Asus Maximus V Formula
Cooling:	Water
Memory:	2x4gb Patriot Viper 2133mhz 10-11-10-25 2T 1.55v
Video Card:	Sapphire HD 7970 1125/1575 1.14v
Hard Disk:	Crucial M4 128Gb / Corsair Force 3 120Gb / Samsung 240Gb / 2Tb Seagate
Optical Drive:	None
CRT/LCD Model:	Acheiva Shimian 27" IPS 2560x1440
Case:	Corsair 500R White
Sound Card:	Onboard
PSU:	NZXT Hale90 1Kw
Software:	Windows 8 x64

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