ATI 4890 problem!

[mgs-snake]

hey guyz hows everything?

well! let's get to the point.. my friend owns a desktop pc with the following specs:

AMD Athlon II X3 Processor
ECS A750GM-M MOBO
2GB DDR3 Memory
and recently bought an ATI Radeon HD 4890 graphic card...

the problem is that whenever he tries to play a video game, everything seems just fine in the first 10 minutes but after that the computer reboots automatically!
he's tried to update the driver of the card, but no avail!
has this anything to do with the compatibility of the card with the MOBO?

any ideas?

thanks

[Catalyst]

Check the temp on the card.
Look for dust in the cooler/fan.

If it has stock cooling, consider buying a 3rd-party solution.

Edit: Oh and while I'm at it, what kind of PSU is he using?
Model/make?

[brandonwh64]

what kind of PSU are you using?

[mlee49]

Does this happen with every game?

I would run FurMark and check temps to see if they are good. Also what power supply is he running? Should be at least a 450W.

[TricksterMatt]

It's either the PSU cutting off because there is not enough power of amps on the 12V to power the card or the card is running at high temps causing the reboot so it doesn't carry on heating up and damaging the card.

[SUPERREDDEVIL]

sure it´s the PSU, go and tell your buddy to afford a new one, i recommend 550W or greater PSU for that VidCard and Processor...

[Cheeseball]

If the PC just restarts randomly during load or after a fixed amount of time (e.g. 10 minutes, like you said), it's most likely the power supply not being to take the stress. If you're using a generic/cheap PSU, that HD 4890 is going to overload it.

[SUPERREDDEVIL]

oh, and dont forget to look into the PSU Amperage, it´s better to have 40 amps or greater for that vidcard to handle it fine

[mgs-snake]

I have checked the temp and got 80C.. i installed an extra fan on the card, rechecked the temp and got 55C... but still have the same problem!

he's actually using a good AcBel 510W PSU!

Originally Posted by mlee49

Does this happen with every game?

yes

[random]

If the card can run on the mobo as you've said for 10 minutes then its compatible obviously since it wouldn't run at all if it wasn't.

Secondly if your comp is just restarting no BSOD or error messages then I would highly agree with the others, change your PSU, I've never heard of an AcBel brand so I'll assume its generic

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by mgs-snake

I have checked the temp and got 80C.. i installed an extra fan on the card, rechecked the temp and got 55C... but still have the same problem!

he's actually using a good AcBel 510W PSU!



yes

Don't put too much faith on the wattage, what is the amperage of the unit?

Edit: A little research tells me it's either 17 or 18A on dual rails dependant on model, so lets go with 34A in total, thats at peak power (assumption), now you have to next take into account the efficiency rating of the PSU and make deductions there and we might be talking say 28A for a new unit, whilst it will operate at peak, it won't for prolonged periods. To consolidate that.... 12V x 34A = 489.6W real ....I would hazard a guess that is cutting it fine, the card draws around 227W max (at stock speeds) which translates into about 19A, unless your PSU can "rail switch" then there is your answer. hope that makes sense...... I lost myself somewhere during that lot!

[overclocking101]

its the psu for sure, there is no such thing as a "good" acbel psu m8

edit where did you buy it?? what brand is the card etc

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Originally Posted by mgs-snake

hey guyz hows everything?

well! let's get to the point.. my friend owns a desktop pc with the following specs:

AMD Athlon II X3 Processor
ECS A750GM-M MOBO
2GB DDR3 Memory
and recently bought an ATI Radeon HD 4890 graphic card...

the problem is that whenever he tries to play a video game, everything seems just fine in the first 10 minutes but after that the computer reboots automatically!
he's tried to update the driver of the card, but no avail!
has this anything to do with the compatibility of the card with the MOBO?

any ideas?

thanks

Is he running a 32 bit or 64 bit operating system. You see a 1 gig video card in a 32 bit operating system is going to eat so much of your available RAM that instability is more likely. In fact a 1 gig video card can eat as much as 2 gigs of System RAM in a 32 bit operating system in a DirectX 9 application. All 4890s are 1 gig. I myself would add more system RAM especially if you are running 32 bit. I highly recommend having 4 gigs so you get to use either 3 or less depending on your config in 32 bit. What operating system is it?

Another thing is that if power were an issue I think you might actually see something on the screen that might warn you. I tried to use a 4890 on an Antec Neopower 500 watt power supply that had 3 rails of 17 amps each and that wasn't enough and that is rated at 500 watts continuous. I started a game and the screen just turned gray and I gave up. Try running the various benchmarks available here at TPU like Resident Evil 5. Try running in DirectX 10 if you can. If you can run in DirectX 10 and stay stable but can't stay stable in DirectX 9 my guess would be that you were running out of RAM in DirectX 9 since you don't lose as much system RAM with video RAM shadowing. There is a great thread about video memory and its interaction with system RAM here at TPU.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=91260




Here is a link to the power supply I tried and failed with so don't expect to run a 4890 on it.
Antec Neo Power 500 500W ATX12V SLI Certified Cros...

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler

Is he running a 32 bit or 64 bit operating system. You see a 1 gig video card in a 32 bit operating system is going to eat so much of your available RAM that instability is more likely. In fact a 1 gig video card can eat as much as 2 gigs of System RAM in a 32 bit operating system in a DirectX 9 application. All 4890s are 1 gig. I myself would add more system RAM especially if you are running 32 bit. I highly recommend having 4 gigs so you get to use either 3 or less depending on your config in 32 bit. What operating system is it?

thats not right, you have it backwards. the max addressable is 4 gig but having less system ram than 4gig and then a 1 gig video card does not subtract from the addressable 2 gigs system ram.

EDIT: now I see i am arguing with what is considered to be a reputable "fact" here on this board, and while I am not saying I am 100% right I really dont think that is how the situation of a 2gb ram 1gb VGA plays out.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cas.../atx-psu9.html

I'll leave it to better men to explain why this might not be able to run a 4890 but today you can get power supplies with so much more juice on the 12v rails. It certainly might be possible that the video card is just not getting enough amps. It has only 2 18amp 12v rails.

I just bought this HEC $600 watt continuously rated power supply for only $39.99 at Newegg.

hec X-Power Pro 600 600W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V ...

That has a 30 amp 12v rail and a 22 amp 12v rail. I'll test it out today with a 3870 X2. It should be able to run a 4890 as well so all is not lost if the power supply is the issue. It can be replaced at a low cost.

[FreedomEclipse]

Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler

<snip>if the power supply is the issue. It can be replaced at a low cost.

its never a good idea to buy 'low cost' power supplies. buying a PSU is an investment & more well known brands such as Corsair Or Enermax might be more expensive then other manufacturers but at least its a name you can trust that makes quality PSUs -

If it costs a bit more money to get a decent powersupply - dont cut corners,

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cas.../atx-psu9.html

I'll leave it to better men to explain why this might not be able to run a 4890 but today you can get power supplies with so much more juice on the 12v rails. It certainly might be possible that the video card is just not getting enough amps. It has only 2 18amp 12v rails.

I just bought this HEC $600 watt continuously rated power supply for only $39.99 at Newegg.

hec X-Power Pro 600 600W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V ...

That has a 30 amp 12v rail and a 22 amp 12v rail. I'll test it out today with a 3870 X2. It should be able to run a 4890 as well so all is not lost if the power supply is the issue. It can be replaced at a low cost.

Say what? 12V x 52A = 624W, unless my maths is bad, thats neither continous or takes into account efficiency.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Originally Posted by FreedomEclipse

its never a good idea to buy 'low cost' power supplies. buying a PSU is an investment & more well known brands such as Corsair Or Enermax might be more expensive then other manufacturers but at least its a name you can trust that makes quality PSUs -

If it costs a bit more money to get a decent powersupply - dont cut corners,

I like to take chances for PCs that are more of an experiment and not the main PC that you don't want to lose. But I've used various vendors and have had very little problems with companies such as Rosewill, Coolmax, and Xclio. I use a Rosewill 850 watt power supply for my main I7 rig that is listed in my System specs. My Xclio 1000 watt supply has been powering as much as near 600 watts without a problem. Just because they are not Corsair or Antec doesn't mean that they are garbage.

Companies I will stay away from are Xion as I did not like the one power supply I tried as it ran way hot and Apevia whose 1100 watt Warlock died in about 3 days. (It didn't damage any of my components; it went quietly)

It is up to the consumer to decide. If you want the best and most reliable you pay for it. I like Antec when it comes to I know damn well it is going to work. (I have both the Truepower 850 watt and 1000 watt models) I discovered the Rosewill models by testing them out and have had nothing but success. I buy just about everything from Newegg.

I just report the news. If you are strapped for cash there are other low cost power supplies that will run a 4890 and not explode.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Say what? 12V x 52A = 624W, unless my maths is bad, thats neither continous or takes into account efficiency.

If a PSU says 600 watts you should never really expect to actually push it to that limit and not wind up roasting weiners over a warm fire.

Seriously I think it is not saying that you can use 52 amps at once. All that is saying is that one rail can handle 30 amps and the other 22. Not that both can handle that at one time. There are PSUs that have like 6 30 amp rails and they are not 2000 watt models.

[crush3r]

PSU or GPU overheat. Try a better PSU to rule that out, but it's more than likely that.

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

Say what? 12V x 52A = 624W, unless my maths is bad, thats neither continous or takes into account efficiency.

That isn't how PSU rails work on multi-rail PSUs.

It is a common mistake to take all the 12v rails, add them together, and then take that final figure as the total.

I'll use the HEC as an example. It has two 12v rails, one 22A and one 30A. Both rails are really drawing from the same source. Now that source can supply a certain maximum amount. Each rail can supply a maximum of whatever it is rated for. So rail 1 can supply 264w, and rail 2 can supply 360w. However, they can't both do their maximum at the same time, they are limitted by the primary 12v source they are drawing from.

The HEC unit is very poorly documented when it comes to this, there is no way of knowing what the actual maximum 12v load is, it just isn't documented anywhere I can find. However, other PSUs are better about documenting this. If you look at this SeaSonic unit, it is more clearly documented what is going on. Each 12v rail is capable of a maximum of 17a, but the 12v load overall can't exceed 288w which is 24a. So if the first rail is using all 17a, that leave only 7a for the second rail to use.



Now, I'm with everyone else here, it is probably a PSU issue, and DO NOT BUY A CHEAP PSU! Not only could a cheap PSU lead to the issues we are seeing here, it could potentially fry components or kill entire systems. Plus, a good PSU bought today can last years, through multiple builds. Hell my Thermaltake 750w went through at least 3 different rigs. It might have been a little more expensive when I bought it, but it lasted. In fact, I would still be using it today if I hadn't swapped it out for the Corsair trying to track down a gremlin(it wasn't the PSU).

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by Robert-The-Rambler

If a PSU says 600 watts you should never really expect to actually push it to that limit and not wind up roasting weiners over a warm fire.

Seriously I think it is not saying that you can use 52 amps at once. All that is saying is that one rail can handle 30 amps and the other 22. Not that both can handle that at one time. There are PSUs that have like 6 30 amp rails and they are not 2000 watt models.

Lol..... I am not questioning the wattage, I am questioning the amperage.

[Tatty_One]

Originally Posted by newtekie1

That isn't how PSU rails work on multi-rail PSUs.

It is a common mistake to take all the 12v rails, add them together, and then take that final figure as the total.

I'll use the HEC as an example. It has two 12v rails, one 22A and one 30A. Both rails are really drawing from the same source. Now that source can supply a certain maximum amount. Each rail can supply a maximum of whatever it is rated for. So rail 1 can supply 264w, and rail 2 can supply 360w. However, they can't both do their maximum at the same time, they are limitted by the primary 12v source they are drawing from.

The HEC unit is very poorly documented when it comes to this, there is no way of knowing what the actual maximum 12v load is, it just isn't documented anywhere I can find. However, other PSUs are better about documenting this. If you look at this SeaSonic unit, it is more clearly documented what is going on. Each 12v rail is capable of a maximum of 17a, but the 12v load overall can't exceed 288w which is 24a. So if the first rail is using all 17a, that leave only 7a for the second rail to use.



Now, I'm with everyone else here, it is probably a PSU issue, and DO NOT BUY A CHEAP PSU! Not only could a cheap PSU lead to the issues we are seeing here, it could potentially fry components or kill entire systems. Plus, a good PSU bought today can last years, through multiple builds. Hell my Thermaltake 750w went through at least 3 different rigs. It might have been a little more expensive when I bought it, but it lasted. In fact, I would still be using it today if I hadn't swapped it out for the Corsair trying to track down a gremlin(it wasn't the PSU).

I know and completely agree, but when someone makes the statement of the amperage of their unit by adding the 2 rails together, thats when I comment if you get my meaning, my example was to show that you cannot add both if you get my drift.

[mgs-snake]

although that PSU has 2 12v rails 18A each, 510W (450W true), it wasn't able to support that card... looks like -as u said- a brand issue!

He told me he's going to afford another PSU...

anyway thanks everybody for the useful info.

U R THE BEST

[newtekie1]

Originally Posted by Tatty_One

I know and completely agree, but when someone makes the statement of the amperage of their unit by adding the 2 rails together, thats when I comment if you get my meaning, my example was to show that you cannot add both if you get my drift.

Right, I figured you knew, I was just adding clearification for others.