I have a feeling that I don't like Steam.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by hat

Why do you have such a hard time with running Steam?

It's DRM. It falls in the same category of SecuROM, Star-Force, and Tages in my book. They added other stuff to help you forget the primary reason why it exists in the first place. I have not, nor ever will, forget that.


Like hat said, having to download more than once is a real PITA. There are games weighing in at 13 GiB these days. On my connection (which won't be getting any faster in the foreseeable future), that would take no less than 11 hours to download. With the disk, it takes all of 15 seconds to spin around and grab it from my 200+ CD binders.

[ste2425]

i dont understand why steam running in the background is such a problem? i think its a good idea on the whole anti piracy thing and who really has a computer nowadays where running steam has an impact on their gameplay? Its not like steam pops up when you don't want it to or little notifications pop up like windows live. Just logging (or have it do it automaticly) click on you game done. When you quit your game you just spend and extra secomd closing steam. It'd would take just as long to run a game without steam clicking on start, then games, then the game you want. I think its either sheer stubbornness of laziness

[FordGT90Concept]

I don't understand how you don't have a problem with Steam but have a problem with SecuROM, Star-Force, and Tages when they are even more transparent than Steam (no tray icon, no running processes). See, it works both ways.

When does SecuROM pop up? When the disk isn't in the drive. When does Steam pop up? When you are trying to play any Steam game. All the same to me. SecuROM is actually less obnoxious when it works.

[ste2425]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I don't understand how you don't have a problem with Steam but have a problem with SecuROM, Star-Force, and Tages when they are even more transparent than Steam (no tray icon, no running processes). See, it works both ways.

haha true i gues i like steam coz it dont look like DRM. Which i dont have a problem with if implimented well, like steam. Everyone says they hate piracy but when something comearound to stop it people hate it. Understandably some drm are absolute cr@p but i think steam is the better out of most.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by ste2425

haha true i gues i like steam coz it dont look like DRM.

That's where we disagree. In my eye, it has DRM written all over it (developed by a software publishing company, often requires an Internet connection, updates all the freakin' time, runs when games do, required to install some applications, etc.).

[ste2425]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

That's where we disagree. In my eye, it has DRM written all over it (developed by a software publishing company, often requires an Internet connection, updates all the freakin' time, runs when games do, required to install some applications, etc.).

hmmm true i can understand what your saying and how that could annoy you, or anyone but im shore you can set automatic updates, like windows, so it updates at times when not playing games. Plus i oftem play minus an internet connection.

BTW im not trying to force my opinion on you or say your wrong, just having a friendly debate

[jimmyme]

Vote cast! /Yeah, I agree, I use it rarely or not at all anymore./
Looks like we are the minority but this is a tech website and forum afterall.

I only use Steam because Tripwire only release RO through it...

[DrPepper]

I think steam is the only form of DRM I actually like using.

[Cold Storm]

I'm with ya Pepper.. There is other's but Steams doesn't bug me as the others.. IMO.

As for redownloading.. I'll hit it up in the morning, before work, & it's ready for me when I get home.. I have it all on one hdd, so all I have to worry about, reinstalling the "directX" stuff.. Then move over the saves to the place that is needed.. I'm one of those people that format the os every 3m.. So, I've got steam down pat on instant play on the games I play a lot.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by Cold Storm

I'm with ya Pepper.. There is other's but Steams doesn't bug me as the others.. IMO.

As for redownloading.. I'll hit it up in the morning, before work, & it's ready for me when I get home.. I have it all on one hdd, so all I have to worry about, reinstalling the "directX" stuff.. Then move over the saves to the place that is needed.. I'm one of those people that format the os every 3m.. So, I've got steam down pat on instant play on the games I play a lot.

unlike all other DRM, steam actually has a purpose. its a chat client, a download manager, an online store, and more.

all the other DRM's do nothing BUT DRM, so we hate them for it - steam is DRM with benefits to offset the annoyance.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Mussels

unlike all other DRM, steam actually has a purpose. its a chat client, a download manager, an online store, and more.

all the other DRM's do nothing BUT DRM, so we hate them for it - steam is DRM with benefits to offset the annoyance.

EA Download Manager has download managing and an online store too, yet, everyone hates it. I can't imagine many people even use the chat functionality in Steam because there's many other clients with far broader acceptance (like AIM and MSN). Impulse is practically the same as Steam (including chat), yet no where near as popular (probably because they don't offer "weekend sales" and the like). Why people give Steam a free pass is beyond me.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

EA Download Manager has download managing and an online store too, yet, everyone hates it. I can't imagine many people even use the chat functionality in Steam because there's many other clients with far broader acceptance (like AIM and MSN). Impulse is practically the same as Steam (including chat), yet no where near as popular (probably because they don't offer "weekend sales" and the like). Why people give Steam a free pass is beyond me.

EA download manager has limited installs of many games.

impulse and EADM dont have in game chat overlay (AIM, yahoo etc are useless if you cnat use them IN-game like steam chat)


everyone i know uses steam chat. i'd be surprised to find people who DONT, you sound like the first to me.

[Stak]

Hahaha i didn't even know steam was DRM before this thread . Steam has never annoyed me. It's a revolutionary program for PC gaming (at least for me). I already liked it even before the big makeover.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Mussels

impulse and EADM dont have in game chat overlay (AIM, yahoo etc are useless if you cnat use them IN-game like steam chat)

Which is counter-intuitive in my book. If I am in a game, I don't want to be disturbed by anyone unless it is game-specific. In which case, I'll either use the game's built in chat capabilities or VoIP (Ventrilo/TeamSpeak).

[MoonPig]

You can turn notifications off.

Tbh, it seems most of people problems with steam can be changing in the options...

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Which is counter-intuitive in my book. If I am in a game, I don't want to be disturbed by anyone unless it is game-specific. In which case, I'll either use the game's built in chat capabilities or VoIP (Ventrilo/TeamSpeak).

you obviously have few friends who game, and never try and organise matches. Many games have no in game chat (mostly racing games) or ones that only work once all players are either in the game, or the pre-game lobby. how do you ask for others to join, alt tab and risk your game crashing/screwing up? call then on a phone?

steam has many, many benefits... they may not suit you, but thats not steams fault.

[MLG The Canadian]

Originally Posted by RuskiSnajper

Auto updating is way from positive because you can't play the game AT ALL if it doesn't update , this means you are bound from starting the game at all.

simple pay download and play is also a negative from a collectors view , because you don't own a physical copy and it can get lost , you can burn it , but that won't work with the profile then you'll have to crack it afaik.

What's more , i don't use credit cards or any kind of international online payment to be even relying on steam alone.

1 Why are you complaining that your games get updated and you don't have to find the updates and download them from crappy mirrors? It's a good thing, and it isn't forced.

2 Pay and download is better than owning a copy, because unless you fuck up and cheat or be an idiot, or give away your accounts security, you will ALWAYS have that game, on any PC you want, available to you. You can't "lose" a game over steam, that's the point. If you uninstall it, it sits in your library as a free download link to the files. Plus, under your account settings you have the receipts to all the downloads and purchases you make, and Valve customer service is great.

3 They accept prepaid mastercards/visa. I'm just turning 19 in a few days and I'll have my first credit card, and I've been using prepaid cards for years. I occasionally use a friends credit card because I trust and love steam and so does everybody else lol.

It's up to you, you can buy CD's and have a cluttered gaming space in which you can't take with you, or keep from breaking indefinitely, or keep from expiring warantys or disc scratch replacement warranty, and buy things at full price.

Totally up to you. lol.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I do. I want to play a game, not run Steam to play a game. Even GFWL starts after the game is started--far more logical.

Ventrilo is for staying connected with friends.

Does your PC have a hard time running Steam or something? You know your car would get better gas mileage if your ripped the entire interior out and sat on a plastic crate, but I doubt it's worth the savings to most people.

Ventrillo is for holding full conversations, and for talking to people you know in person. I am not going to run a vent when I just want to link images and general BS with numerous people. The idea of getting a bunch f my friends together in vent who all don't know each other doesn't really sound that great to me.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Which is counter-intuitive in my book. If I am in a game, I don't want to be disturbed by anyone unless it is game-specific. In which case, I'll either use the game's built in chat capabilities or VoIP (Ventrilo/TeamSpeak).

You are a very concentrated player then, most people I know send a few messages back and forth during gaming, it's nice when your friends are gaming but not in the same game as you. When I played WoW it was nice to be able to talk to friends who played on different servers, worked the same as in game whispers, but you can't do that cross servers.

And not to mention, I would run it alone for the games library, I have almost 300GB worth of games, and its a massive list, having a place where they all are in a nice small list that I can see almost all of the titles at once, without having them clutter up some folder or my desktop is very nice. Plus it track the hours I play and achievements. Your living in the past, today is about being connected with people at all times, and things are going to keep moving in that direction, its the future, if everyone hated every new idea we wouldn't get anywhere. Why have a number pad on a phone when a rotary worked just fine?

[Darknova]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

EA Download Manager has download managing and an online store too, yet, everyone hates it. I can't imagine many people even use the chat functionality in Steam because there's many other clients with far broader acceptance (like AIM and MSN). Impulse is practically the same as Steam (including chat), yet no where near as popular (probably because they don't offer "weekend sales" and the like). Why people give Steam a free pass is beyond me.

I ran a steam clan and have many friends in steam, I love the fact that I can chat to them while in-game. It's so much easier to get a game together on steam, or to join a friends game, no need to get the IP or anything off them just join via the friends interface. If you're not already in-game it will launch the game and auto-connect to the server they are on.

It sounds like Steam just doesn't suit how you play games, doesn't mean it's evil though, everyone has different opinions.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by Mussels

you obviously have few friends who game, and never try and organise matches. Many games have no in game chat (mostly racing games) or ones that only work once all players are either in the game, or the pre-game lobby. how do you ask for others to join, alt tab and risk your game crashing/screwing up? call then on a phone?

VoIP.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Ventrillo is for holding full conversations, and for talking to people you know in person. I am not going to run a vent when I just want to link images and general BS with numerous people. The idea of getting a bunch f my friends together in vent who all don't know each other doesn't really sound that great to me.

Skype is for "holding full conversations." Ventrillo is a push-to-talk application which naturally leads to short spurts of messages (command/acknowledge or question/answer).

But you would run Steam for general BS with numerous people? How odd.

Nothing sounds great until you try it.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

You are a very concentrated player then, most people I know send a few messages back and forth during gaming, it's nice when your friends are gaming but not in the same game as you. When I played WoW it was nice to be able to talk to friends who played on different servers, worked the same as in game whispers, but you can't do that cross servers.

Ventrilo runs on a separate server. If it is running, it will work. It's like Steam but isn't DRM and talking is much faster than typing.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

And not to mention, I would run it alone for the games library, I have almost 300GB worth of games, and its a massive list, having a place where they all are in a nice small list that I can see almost all of the titles at once, without having them clutter up some folder or my desktop is very nice. Plus it track the hours I play and achievements. Your living in the past, today is about being connected with people at all times, and things are going to keep moving in that direction, its the future, if everyone hated every new idea we wouldn't get anywhere. Why have a number pad on a phone when a rotary worked just fine?

I had around 350 GiB of games installed before I formatted. I'm already up to about 50 GiB and Steam ain't even installed. Games for Windows-Live is though because The Club needs it. I don't own any games via GFWL though.

There are 4x200 and 2x40 disk binders behind me over 75% full of CDs and DVDs. It's a massive "list" and I can see all my titles at once. Or I could get a list of all the downloads for said games off my server with a simple batch file. Which I did, just because:

Spoiler

18 Wheels of Steel - Across America
18 Wheels of Steel - Pedal to the Metal
25 to Life
A Bee Movie
A-Train 8
Act of War - Direct Action
Age of Empires II
Age of Empires III
Age of Mythology
Airline Tycoon Evolution
Alpha Protocol
American Chopper
Anno 1404
ARMA II
Army Men - Sarge's War
Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman - Arkham Asylum
Battlefield - Bad Company 2
Battlefield 1942
Battlefield 2142
Battlefield Vietnam
Battlestations - Pacific
Beyond Good & Evil
Black & White
Black & White 2
Blur
Borderlands
Brothers in Arms - Earned in Blood
Brothers in Arms - Hell's Highway
Brothers in Arms - Road to Hill 30
Bully - Scholarship Edition
Cabela's 4X4 Off-road Adventure
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4
City Bus Simulator 2010
City Life - World Edition
Civilization III
Civilization IV
Civilization IV - Colonization
Close Combat
Close Combat 2 - A Bridge Too Far
Close Combat 3 - The Russian Front
Close Combat 4 - Battle of the Bulge
Close Combat 5 - Invasion Normandy
Club, The
Command & Conquer - Kane's Wrath
Command & Conquer - Red Alert 3
Command & Conquer - Red Alert 3 - Uprising
Command & Conquer - The First Decade
Command & Conquer 3 - Tiberium Wars - Kane Edition
Command & Conquer 4 - Tiberian Twilight
Company of Heroes
Company of Heroes - Opposing Fronts
Company of Heros - Tales of Valor
COPS 2170
Crazy Machines 2+
Crysis
Crysis - Warhead
Damnation
Delta Force - Black Hawk Down
Delta Force - Land Warrior
Delta Force - Task Force Dagger
Descent 3
Deus Ex
Deus Ex - Invisible War
Diablo II
Diablo II - Lord of Destruction
Dragon Age - Origins
Dreamfall
Driv3r
Driver - Parrallel Lines
Duke Nukem - Manhattan Project
Dungeon Keeper II
Earth 2140
Earth 2150
Earth 2160
Elder Scrolls III, The - Morrowind
Elder Scrolls IV, The - Oblivion
Empire Earth
Empire Earth II
Empire Earth III
Evil Genius
Experiment, The
Fable - The Lost Chapters
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
Fallout Tactics
Far Cry 2
Farming Simulator 2009
FlatOut
FlatOut 2
FlatOut Ultimate Carnage
Flight Simulator 2004
Ford Racing - Off Road
Freedom Fighters
Freedom Force
Freedom Force vs The Third Reich
Freelancer
Frontlines - Fuel of War
Full Spectrum Warrior
Full Spectrum Warrior - Ten Hammers
Gangland
Godfather II, The
Godfather, The
Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto - Vice City
Grand Theft Auto II
Grand Theft Auto III
Grand Theft Auto IV
Ground Control
Ground Control II
Guild 2, The
Guild 2, The - Pirates of the European Seas
Guild 2, The - Venice
Gun
Halo
Hard Truck Apocalypse
Hitman - Blood Money
Hitman - Contracts
Hitman 2 - Silent Assassin
Homeworld - Cataclysm
Hysteria Hospital - Emergency Ward
Jagged Alliance
James Bond 007 - Nightfire
James Bond 007 - Quantum of Solace
Jaws Unleashed
John Deere American Farmer
John Deere American Farmer Deluxe
Juiced 2 - Hot Import Nights
Just Cause
Just Cause 2
Kane & Lynch
Kung Fu Panda
Lego Batman
Lego Indiana Jones
Lego Indiana Jones 2
Lego Racers 2
Lego Star Wars Saga
Leisure Suit Larry
Leisure Suit Larry - Box Office Bust
Longest Journey, The
Lord of the Rings - Battle to Middle Earth II
Lord of the Rings - Conquest
Made Man
Mafia
Mall Tycoon
Manhunt
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mech Commander
MechWarrior 4
Medal of Honor - Airborne
Medal of Honor - Allied Assult
Medal of Honor - Pacific Assult
Medieval II - Total War
Mercenaries 2 - World In Flames
Metal Gear Solid
Metro 2033
Midnight Club 2
Mirror's Edge
Monkey Island 4 - Escape from Monkey Island
Monsters vs Aliens
Movies, The
Myst - Uru
Myst III - Exile
Myst IV - Revelation
Myst V - End of Ages
Need for Speed - Carbon
Need for Speed - Most Wanted
Need for Speed - Prostreet
Need for Speed - Shift
Need for Speed - Undercover
Need for Speed - Underground
Need for Speed - Underground 2
Neverwinter Nights
No One Lives Forever
Oddworld - Abe's Exoddus
Operation Flashpoint
Overlord
Overlord II
Pet Vet 3D - Animal Hospital Down Under
Pirates of the Caribbean
Playboy - The Mansion
Political Machine, The
Populous
Port Royale
Prank TV
Prey
Prince of Persia - Sands of Time
Prince of Persia - The Two Towers
Prince of Persia - Warrior Within
Prototype
Quake
Quake II
Quake III
Railroad Tycoon
Rainbow Six
Red Faction
Red Faction Guerrilla
Red Faction II
Restricted Area
RollerCoaster Tycoon
Rome - Total War
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Call of Pripyat
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl
Saboteur, The
Saints Row 2
Scarface
School Tycoon
Secret of Monkey Island, The - Special Edition
Serious Sam HD - The First Encounter
Settlers 7
ShellShock - Nam '67
Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sid Meier's Railroads!
SimCity 3000 Unlimited
SimCity 4
SimCity Societies
SimCity Societies Deluxe
SimCopter
SimGolf
SimHealth
Simpsons, The - Hit & Run
Sims 2, The
Sims 3, The
Sims, The
Singularity
Sins of a Solar Empire - Trinity
Sonic Heroes
Space Colony
Space Siege
Spaceforce - Captains
Spaceforce Rogue Universe
Spider Man 2
Splinter Cell
Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory
Splinter Cell - Conviction
Splinter Cell - Double Agent
Splinter Cell - Pandora Tomorrow
Split Second
Spore
Star Trek - Starfleet Command 3
Starlancer
Startopia
Streets of SimCity
Stronghold
Stronghold 2
Stronghold Crusader
Stronghold Crusader Extreme
Stronghold Legends
Supreme Commander
Supreme Commander 2
Supreme Ruler 2010
System Shock 2
Tank Combat
Test Drive
Test Drive 5
Test Drive Unlimited
Theme Hospital
Thief 3
TimeShift
Tony Hawk Underground 2
Total Overdose
Train Simulator 2004
Tropico 2 - Pirate Cove
Tropico 3
Tropico Mucho Macho Edition
True Crime - New York City
True Crime - Streets of L.A
Turning Point - Fall of Liberty
Tycoon City - New York
Universe at War - Earth Assault
Unreal Tournament 2004
Unreal Tournament III
Wanted - Weapons of Fate
Warhammer 40,000 - Dawn of War 2
Warzone 2100
Wheelman
Wildfire
Wings of Prey
Witcher, The
Wolfenstein
World in Conflict
World War III - Black Gold
Worms - Forts Under Siege
Worms 3D
Worms 4 - Mayhem
X - Beyond the Frontier
X - Tension
X2 - The Threat
X3 - Reunion
X3 - Terran Conflict
XIII

All my games are in Windows Vista/7's convinent "Games" dir/app (about the only thing I like about Win ver 6). Steam, unfortunately, isn't compatible with it because all game launches go through it. Windows is unable to retreive game information like the Publisher, Developer, Product Version, Release Date, Genre, ESRB rating, or performance recommendations because Steam masks it.

I don't care how long I play games and every game has its own means to track achivements. Some do it internally, some use GFWL. In all cases, it's pretty useless.


Rotary dial didn't work fine. It was slow and AT&T sold the idea of a touch-tone dialer by demonstrating how much faster than rotoary pulse dialers they were. Speed sells, which is why disks aren't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by Darknova

...no need to get the IP or anything off them just join via the friends interface.

That's what domain names are for. The domain always points to the Ventrilo server.

Originally Posted by Darknova

It sounds like Steam just doesn't suit how you play games, doesn't mean it's evil though, everyone has different opinions.

You can put lipstick (fancy GUI) on a pig (DRM), but it's still a pig (DRM).

[TheMailMan78]

If anyone wants to see how this argument ends read this.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=123655

DRM has now entered the halls of ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Skype is for "holding full conversations." Ventrillo is a push-to-talk application which naturally leads to short spurts of messages (command/acknowledge or question/answer).

But you would run Steam for general BS with numerous people? How odd.

Nothing sounds great until you try it.

Ventrillo is push to talk for large groups where many people shouldnt have background noise going at the sametime. Like in a raid type setting, if I hear someone saying "im eating a cheeseburger" randomly 5 minutes after they said "hi" I most likely will not hear them. But if a message flashes n the lower portion of my screen I can simply push Shift + Tab and say "burgers sound good right about now", that takes a whole 5 seconds. When I play videogames I play them to relax, to enjoy my time, I don't glue my eyelids open and harness myself to my monitor, lock my door and tell everyone to leave me the hell alone. Having small BS convo's with numerous people is enjoyable.

I got quite a few from TPU on my list and we exchange little messages here and there, not a point to tell them to hop on vent everytime I want to say "hey did you buy this game", or "hey did you see this new patch", when the convo might only be a few exchangings of words. I also hate headsets, with a passion, I'm playing to relax, having something convering my ears is not relaxing.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Ventrilo runs on a separate server. If it is running, it will work. It's like Steam but isn't DRM and talking is much faster than typing.

DRM DRM DRM.... I havent ever had an issue with any DRM, especially not Steams, it works fine, it has a ton of nice features. And by server I meant realm, as in the ones you play in on MMO's. The DRM boat has set sail, this isn't a taxing application, and if people are having issues with patches or the fact that they need an updated game, then don't buy copies on Steam if you have internet thats not always up and running, it's that simple. I like Burgers (as we already covered), but I am not going to drive 250 miles to get Burger King when there is one a few miles a way. If it's a hassle that causes your comp to run slow, causes you to DL patches slow (slow internet), or any other issue, then don't use it. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it, it means you don't have the setup to use it or the need too. Just like I'm sure that Burger King 250 miles away makes great food, but I'm not going to be going there.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

I had around 350 GiB of games installed before I formatted. I'm already up to about 50 GiB and Steam ain't even installed. Games for Windows-Live is though because The Club needs it. I don't own any games via GFWL though.

There are 4x200 and 2x40 disk binders behind me over 75% full of CDs and DVDs. It's a massive "list" and I can see all my titles at once. Or I could get a list of all the downloads for said games off my server with a simple batch file. Which I did, just because:

Spoiler

18 Wheels of Steel - Across America
18 Wheels of Steel - Pedal to the Metal
25 to Life
A Bee Movie
A-Train 8
Act of War - Direct Action
Age of Empires II
Age of Empires III
Age of Mythology
Airline Tycoon Evolution
Alpha Protocol
American Chopper
Anno 1404
ARMA II
Army Men - Sarge's War
Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman - Arkham Asylum
Battlefield - Bad Company 2
Battlefield 1942
Battlefield 2142
Battlefield Vietnam
Battlestations - Pacific
Beyond Good & Evil
Black & White
Black & White 2
Blur
Borderlands
Brothers in Arms - Earned in Blood
Brothers in Arms - Hell's Highway
Brothers in Arms - Road to Hill 30
Bully - Scholarship Edition
Cabela's 4X4 Off-road Adventure
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4
City Bus Simulator 2010
City Life - World Edition
Civilization III
Civilization IV
Civilization IV - Colonization
Close Combat
Close Combat 2 - A Bridge Too Far
Close Combat 3 - The Russian Front
Close Combat 4 - Battle of the Bulge
Close Combat 5 - Invasion Normandy
Club, The
Command & Conquer - Kane's Wrath
Command & Conquer - Red Alert 3
Command & Conquer - Red Alert 3 - Uprising
Command & Conquer - The First Decade
Command & Conquer 3 - Tiberium Wars - Kane Edition
Command & Conquer 4 - Tiberian Twilight
Company of Heroes
Company of Heroes - Opposing Fronts
Company of Heros - Tales of Valor
COPS 2170
Crazy Machines 2+
Crysis
Crysis - Warhead
Damnation
Delta Force - Black Hawk Down
Delta Force - Land Warrior
Delta Force - Task Force Dagger
Descent 3
Deus Ex
Deus Ex - Invisible War
Diablo II
Diablo II - Lord of Destruction
Dragon Age - Origins
Dreamfall
Driv3r
Driver - Parrallel Lines
Duke Nukem - Manhattan Project
Dungeon Keeper II
Earth 2140
Earth 2150
Earth 2160
Elder Scrolls III, The - Morrowind
Elder Scrolls IV, The - Oblivion
Empire Earth
Empire Earth II
Empire Earth III
Evil Genius
Experiment, The
Fable - The Lost Chapters
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
Fallout Tactics
Far Cry 2
Farming Simulator 2009
FlatOut
FlatOut 2
FlatOut Ultimate Carnage
Flight Simulator 2004
Ford Racing - Off Road
Freedom Fighters
Freedom Force
Freedom Force vs The Third Reich
Freelancer
Frontlines - Fuel of War
Full Spectrum Warrior
Full Spectrum Warrior - Ten Hammers
Gangland
Godfather II, The
Godfather, The
Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto - Vice City
Grand Theft Auto II
Grand Theft Auto III
Grand Theft Auto IV
Ground Control
Ground Control II
Guild 2, The
Guild 2, The - Pirates of the European Seas
Guild 2, The - Venice
Gun
Halo
Hard Truck Apocalypse
Hitman - Blood Money
Hitman - Contracts
Hitman 2 - Silent Assassin
Homeworld - Cataclysm
Hysteria Hospital - Emergency Ward
Jagged Alliance
James Bond 007 - Nightfire
James Bond 007 - Quantum of Solace
Jaws Unleashed
John Deere American Farmer
John Deere American Farmer Deluxe
Juiced 2 - Hot Import Nights
Just Cause
Just Cause 2
Kane & Lynch
Kung Fu Panda
Lego Batman
Lego Indiana Jones
Lego Indiana Jones 2
Lego Racers 2
Lego Star Wars Saga
Leisure Suit Larry
Leisure Suit Larry - Box Office Bust
Longest Journey, The
Lord of the Rings - Battle to Middle Earth II
Lord of the Rings - Conquest
Made Man
Mafia
Mall Tycoon
Manhunt
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mech Commander
MechWarrior 4
Medal of Honor - Airborne
Medal of Honor - Allied Assult
Medal of Honor - Pacific Assult
Medieval II - Total War
Mercenaries 2 - World In Flames
Metal Gear Solid
Metro 2033
Midnight Club 2
Mirror's Edge
Monkey Island 4 - Escape from Monkey Island
Monsters vs Aliens
Movies, The
Myst - Uru
Myst III - Exile
Myst IV - Revelation
Myst V - End of Ages
Need for Speed - Carbon
Need for Speed - Most Wanted
Need for Speed - Prostreet
Need for Speed - Shift
Need for Speed - Undercover
Need for Speed - Underground
Need for Speed - Underground 2
Neverwinter Nights
No One Lives Forever
Oddworld - Abe's Exoddus
Operation Flashpoint
Overlord
Overlord II
Pet Vet 3D - Animal Hospital Down Under
Pirates of the Caribbean
Playboy - The Mansion
Political Machine, The
Populous
Port Royale
Prank TV
Prey
Prince of Persia - Sands of Time
Prince of Persia - The Two Towers
Prince of Persia - Warrior Within
Prototype
Quake
Quake II
Quake III
Railroad Tycoon
Rainbow Six
Red Faction
Red Faction Guerrilla
Red Faction II
Restricted Area
RollerCoaster Tycoon
Rome - Total War
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Call of Pripyat
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl
Saboteur, The
Saints Row 2
Scarface
School Tycoon
Secret of Monkey Island, The - Special Edition
Serious Sam HD - The First Encounter
Settlers 7
ShellShock - Nam '67
Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sid Meier's Railroads!
SimCity 3000 Unlimited
SimCity 4
SimCity Societies
SimCity Societies Deluxe
SimCopter
SimGolf
SimHealth
Simpsons, The - Hit & Run
Sims 2, The
Sims 3, The
Sims, The
Singularity
Sins of a Solar Empire - Trinity
Sonic Heroes
Space Colony
Space Siege
Spaceforce - Captains
Spaceforce Rogue Universe
Spider Man 2
Splinter Cell
Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory
Splinter Cell - Conviction
Splinter Cell - Double Agent
Splinter Cell - Pandora Tomorrow
Split Second
Spore
Star Trek - Starfleet Command 3
Starlancer
Startopia
Streets of SimCity
Stronghold
Stronghold 2
Stronghold Crusader
Stronghold Crusader Extreme
Stronghold Legends
Supreme Commander
Supreme Commander 2
Supreme Ruler 2010
System Shock 2
Tank Combat
Test Drive
Test Drive 5
Test Drive Unlimited
Theme Hospital
Thief 3
TimeShift
Tony Hawk Underground 2
Total Overdose
Train Simulator 2004
Tropico 2 - Pirate Cove
Tropico 3
Tropico Mucho Macho Edition
True Crime - New York City
True Crime - Streets of L.A
Turning Point - Fall of Liberty
Tycoon City - New York
Universe at War - Earth Assault
Unreal Tournament 2004
Unreal Tournament III
Wanted - Weapons of Fate
Warhammer 40,000 - Dawn of War 2
Warzone 2100
Wheelman
Wildfire
Wings of Prey
Witcher, The
Wolfenstein
World in Conflict
World War III - Black Gold
Worms - Forts Under Siege
Worms 3D
Worms 4 - Mayhem
X - Beyond the Frontier
X - Tension
X2 - The Threat
X3 - Reunion
X3 - Terran Conflict
XIII

All my games are in Windows Vista/7's convient "Games" dir/app (about the only thing I like about Win ver 6.

I don't care how long I play games and every game has its own means to track achivements. Some do it internally, some use GFWL. In all cases, it's pretty useless.


Rotary dial didn't work fine. It was slow and AT&T sold the idea by demonstrating how much faster the tone dialer phones were to use. Speed sells, which is why disks aren't going anywhere.

I'm glad you have that many games, but I also got just about the same, I don't even have all my Steam games DL'd and I got numerous non-Steam games. But the fact of the matter is, I got a kid, and I hate storing cases and crap, or rummaging through a lot of junk to find a game I want. Having it digital, it won't get scratched, it won't get lost, it's always there, it's always patched, and I don't have to go jump through some horrible loop holes to patch it.

If you don't like achievements, you don't care how they are tracked, or you think they are useless, thats just how you feel. But it's nice to have them all tracked in one place, where you can see what you have accomplished, what good is it to me when I have to load up each game I own to see what I have got done, or maybe a friend wants to compare, to have them all in the same place is a nice feature.

And rotary dial did work fine, it didn't work the fastest, but that didn't mean it didn't work fine. There was nothing wrong with it and switching to another process didn't make the world spin backwards. CD's aren't going anywhere, I don't think anyone is arguing that here, not everyone that enjoys gaming has highspeed net, when I lived at my parents it wasn't even available there. But for those that do Steam is a great thing to have, if you don't like being connected to others, don't like great deals on games, stat tracking, achievement tracking, a nice place for all your shortcuts to be, a store where all the game reviews + trailers + screenshots are at, something that shows you what games your friends are playing (another small conversation piece that vent isn't needed for), and a place to get basic news about a game, then Steams not for you. Doesn't mean it's not great, it means you don't have a use for it, it's impossible to make everyone in this world like something. You can make a lot like it, but there will always be someone who looks for a fault. I could say Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, and I'm sure I could get people disagreeing even though a majority of people would agree, can't always please everyone. It just seems sometimes those who aren't pleased make the loudest noise when most others are happy.

[FordGT90Concept]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

If anyone wants to see how this argument ends read this.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=123655

DRM has now entered the halls of ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel.

Exactly.


I agree with the OP. /fin


FYI, there's about 300 titles on that list and it doesn't include all--only those with 3rd party downloads. It also doesn't list all the expansions because they are in subdirectories. Nor does it list games that are completely on my server (no disks).

[shevanel]

I do not even understand the purpose of DRM nor have I ever cared to educate myself on the matter.

[entropy13]

Originally Posted by shevanel

I do not even understand the purpose of DRM nor have I ever cared to educate myself on the matter.

You already know the purpose. It's in your avatar. Not really kick some ass, but you get the point.