I have a feeling that I don't like Steam.

[shevanel]

my avatar is a joke towards people with power and the power trips they take themselves on.. everyday I see someone abusing their power and no one says anything about it.. but that's a whole entirely other matter lol

but anyway, I like steam.

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by shevanel

I do not even understand the purpose of DRM nor have I ever cared to educate myself on the matter.

The purpose is to do away with the second-hand games market, nothing more, nothing less.

[shevanel]

oh then steam does it the best.

[brandonwh64]

7/81/2 LOLZ

I think its unanimous

[RejZoR]

Originally Posted by Mr McC

The purpose is to do away with the second-hand games market, nothing more, nothing less.

The only problem with it is that it's also taking the first hand market away...

[Steevo]

I manually patched my GTA before the patch was out on steam, it worked fine.

I downloaded all my games to my parents new PC I built them, they live in Cali. So I could play games while I was there and introduce them to games like GTA, HL2, Portal, the new CIV.

I have a four year old, a two year old and a old house we are remodeling, I have no place to really keep my games besides in storage.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by shevanel

my avatar is a joke towards people with power and the power trips they take themselves on.. everyday I see someone abusing their power and no one says anything about it.. but that's a whole entirely other matter lol

but anyway, I like steam.

Can I have some power to abuse?

Originally Posted by Mr McC

The purpose is to do away with the second-hand games market, nothing more, nothing less.

Thats not the point of DRM, thats the point of that new strategy of charging $10 to each person who buys a game second hand to be able to use the online abilities. DRM is to stop their shit from getting stolen, and it makes sense, it sucks that they have to go to such great length and sometimes it gives people who bought the game issues. But do you just let people steal from you? And if you knew someone that did steal from you, what would you do?

[kid41212003]

You quadbike-barbecue them.

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Thats not the point of DRM, thats the point of that new strategy of charging $10 to each person who buys a game second hand to be able to use the online abilities. DRM is to stop their shit from getting stolen, and it makes sense, it sucks that they have to go to such great length and sometimes it gives people who bought the game issues. But do you just let people steal from you? And if you knew someone that did steal from you, what would you do?

I beg to differ. No form of DRM has prevented game theft to date. I would go further and say that some of the more draconian forms of DRM have actually driven more people to piracy. The companies are not stupid, why do you think that they pour millions into DRM despite it's inability to achieve its stated objective and despite the vehement backlash from customers?

[jmcslob]

Originally Posted by Necrofire

Actually, you really only have to install steam once
Copy the SteamApps folder and Steam.exe where you want, and then open steam. It'll do all the dirty work and you're back in business.

Did that last windows install, didn't lose a thing.

I do find it unnecessary that steam has to run to play a game, but I've gotten used to it.

I did finally stop being angry with steam ever since the complete redo. I hated it when it had to use internet explorer for online content (<3 webkit).

What steam is lacking though, is linux support. I don't see why there has been a delay with the linux release. I'm not content with a WINE install, it just isn't the same. If/when native linux support comes, I will possibly be able to ditch windows forever.

Future of games for Linux IMO
no need for native anything
Like Steam but no need to download..Games stay on online server
Not high end graphics yet but good enough and you don't need a console or a high end somputer
Onlive.com

[kid41212003]

Originally Posted by Mr McC

I beg to differ. No form of DRM has prevented game theft to date. I would go further and say that some of the more draconian forms of DRM have actually driven more people to piracy. The companies are not stupid, why do you think that they pour millions into DRM despite it's inability to achieve its stated objective and despite the vehement backlash from customers?

Let them do it.

If their bs make games hard to play then stop buying games from them.

We see murders everyday, ohhh let's get rid of the police! They're useless!

Right.

[1Kurgan1]

Originally Posted by Mr McC

I beg to differ. No form of DRM has prevented game theft to date. I would go further and say that some of the more draconian forms of DRM have actually driven more people to piracy. These companies are not stupid, why do you think that they pour millions into DRM despite it's inability to achieve its stated objective and despite the vehement backlash from customers?

It has stopped some, and thats the goal, there really isnt another option, it's like door locks and cars. Those won't stop crap it's and simple and breaking your window, yet do you lock your car doors? I do and I've had numerous cars broken into at different times. Theres loop holes in everything, especially when you have teams of people working to break your security. They intend to make something that makes their property secure, then someone goes out and cracks it, so the next answer is to do what they did before, but with more force, and that gets broken, then repeat, repeat, repeat. These people put a lot of time into these games and people feel the need to take their time and give them nothing in return, they don't have a ton of other options.

I'm not saying it's all right, or that DRM is great, but I'm saying whats happening is predictable based on teams cracking shit right away, don't blame the developers, blame them. Ubisoft announces that new DRM for Assassins Creed 2 where you must be connected to the internet all the time.... response is 24 hours after its out a whole team has cracked it and put a letter in their crack to work on the games not the DRM. But that team cracks games all the time, and if there was nothing to test them then the games would be online and free and it would be exactly the same.

Like I said it's like locking your doors when your houses/cars/garages all have windows, but I'm betting you still lock them up.

[Laurijan]

i dont like steam for one reason - $ is not €

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

It has stopped some, and thats the goal, there really isnt another option, it's like door locks and cars. Those won't stop crap it's and simple and breaking your window, yet do you lock your car doors? I do and I've had numerous cars broken into at different times. Theres loop holes in everything, especially when you have teams of people working to break your security. They intend to make something that makes their property secure, then someone goes out and cracks it, so the next answer is to do what they did before, but with more force, and that gets broken, then repeat, repeat, repeat. These people put a lot of time into these games and people feel the need to take their time and give them nothing in return, they don't have a ton of other options.

I'm not saying it's all right, or that DRM is great, but I'm saying whats happening is predictable based on teams cracking shit right away, don't blame the developers, blame them. Ubisoft announces that new DRM for Assassins Creed 2 where you must be connected to the internet all the time.... response is 24 hours after its out a whole team has cracked it and put a letter in their crack to work on the games not the DRM. But that team cracks games all the time, and if there was nothing to test them then the games would be online and free and it would be exactly the same.

Like I said it's like locking your doors when your houses/cars/garages all have windows, but I'm betting you still lock them up.

Again, I disagree. Piracy is blamed for far too much, and all too often used as an excuse for other agendas. Clearly the Internet has exaggerated piracy to some extent, but people were filling up both sides of a D90 cassette with Commodore 64 or Spectrum games long before the Web became common in households. In other words, I question whether piracy rates have increased to the extent that the companies claim. Moreover, given that it is clearly not working, as you yourself point out, why do they keep using it? They have most certainly lost sales by employing certain types of DRM, why do they keep using it? The answer has to be that tying up the second-hand market provides enough profit to offset any losses.

Here's a question: how many blank tapes did Sony sell in the VHS/ghetto blaster heyday? Did they think people were using these resources to record their singing voices in the shower? These are the same people trying to ram Securom down everbody's throat.

The focus of DRM, rather than preventing piracy, is to redefine the very concept of ownership. To take your analogy: you will never own another another car, cars will simply be leased to you, so you really shouldn't talk about "your" car.

To get back on topic, it is clear that most of us agree that Steam has triumphed and represents a useful tool on balance. However, it remains DRM and we should never forget that, nor should we be so eager to relinquish our ability to resell games, despite the advantages offered by any particular service.

Originally Posted by kid41212003

Let them do it.

If their bs make games hard to play then stop buying games from them.

We see murders everyday, ohhh let's get rid of the police! They're useless!

Right.

Wrong, let's not allow the authorities to exceed their powers employing murder rates as an excuse.

[Gzero]

Originally Posted by jmcslob

Future of games for Linux IMO
no need for native anything
Like Steam but no need to download..Games stay on online server
Not high end graphics yet but good enough and you don't need a console or a high end somputer
Onlive.com

HAHAH

Oh wait please tell me your not serious? You don't even own the license if you pay for that service.

Anyway back on topic. I don't feel Steam offers me great value for money. You lock ALL of your games to one account.


<This user has logged on in another location>

There you have it, no one is allowed to play any of your other games whilst you play CSS etc. That right has been taken away from you.

[Stak]

Can wee SEE who voted for what???

[KingPing]

It's simple if you don't like Steam buy the retail, PCs are not like consoles (yet), where you have to bend over and wait to get... well, you know. We still have options in the PC.

[Cold Storm]

Originally Posted by Stak

Can wee SEE who voted for what???

I don't think that it would be a good idea to see what people voted in this poll. It will derail the thread and make the mods have to go to "banstick Hill" and grab a switch off the "Club of Ban".. I think it would be best if we just didn't see the results.

[RuskiSnajper]

Originally Posted by DaveK

Everywhere you go you're going to see forced updates. Xbox Live and PlayStation Network require updates before allowing you to play online. It's not a big deal unless the update messes up your crack or something, otherwise, what reason would a person have for not updating?

That's because UPDATES were forced in MW2 , then you couldn't use things such as console unlocker and other tweaks you need to first backup before updating.

Originally Posted by zithe

Up to 200,000 from the government. 400,000 if you're married and using a joint account or the same bank.

That's really what you have in usa , look youtube "money as a debt" seems that in foreclousores you don't get nothing after , but then again i really don't know.

Originally Posted by francis511

Anyone else had trouble with steam and windows 7 x64 ? I try to start L4D 2 and steam doesn`t run right (the service doesn`t start properly). I can work round it by stopping and starting steam manually , but it`s still a PITA.

I have Win7 64x too , did have a major problem when Steam was stuck in an updating loop , reinstall didn't help , nothing.

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

I have never read so much misinformation on TPU in my whole life. This whole thread is a disgrace.

So you're saying im not the only one not knowing things?

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Your really going out on a limb here, most of your reasons seem to be like "well if the world ended", well if the world ends the world ends, worry about that when it happens. If you buy a car and you drive it for we'll say 5,000 miles then it blows the motor, what do you do? You deal with it, it's part of life and the odds of that happening are much higher than having Steam just flat out close up shop. If valve bankrupts you still have all of your CD keys (remember you can see them fr each game).

I know, but you'll never know what can happen , still possibility.

Originally Posted by JC316

You have valid points. I highly dislike certain things about steam, but the deals they have are undeniable. I have a policy that keeps me happy with steam, I never pay over $20 for a game from them.

My number one gripe with steam is the fact that you can't sell or transfer your account. That REALLY annoys me because I like to get games, play them and sell em.

Yeah, I do have , from a modding,tweaking viewpoint , also modifing the profile (i will explain later), I think that's the biggest point of steam they had in mind , control the second-hand market, nevertheless but i honestly always thought steam was better than anything else. But that's valve sakes , i expected more of them.

Originally Posted by Fatal

I was about to make my first purchase from steam but now am having second thoughts. I dont like the idea of adding software to run a game that bums me out. I guess I will be better off buying the game from a store. Thanks for the info every one

That was my first impression too , except that i never planned to buy a game, i guess it wasn't as good as it now APPARENTLY is. still it's not perfect , or a substitute of taking over retail.

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

who cares if Steam is required to play a game or if it isn't, it's not that stressful. And it allows you to stay connected with friends. And if it's in Offline mode, once again who cares, it's not crushing your system. The instant I start worrying about minor processes slowing down my comp is when I know something is wrong with my hardware.

I have Xfire for that so no thanks , btw , i have more real life firends than online.

Originally Posted by ste2425

i dont understand why steam running in the background is such a problem? i think its a good idea on the whole anti piracy thing and who really has a computer nowadays where running steam has an impact on their gameplay? Its not like steam pops up when you don't want it to or little notifications pop up like windows live. Just logging (or have it do it automaticly) click on you game done. When you quit your game you just spend and extra secomd closing steam. It'd would take just as long to run a game without steam clicking on start, then games, then the game you want. I think its either sheer stubbornness of laziness

That's because it feels unsecure , always someting running , when game's crash you always blame it , or GFWL.

Originally Posted by MoonPig

You can turn notifications off.

Tbh, it seems most of people problems with steam can be changing in the options...

I guess i didn't notice

Originally Posted by MLG The Canadian

1 Why are you complaining that your games get updated and you don't have to find the updates and download them from crappy mirrors? It's a good thing, and it isn't forced.

2 Pay and download is better than owning a copy, because unless you fuck up and cheat or be an idiot, or give away your accounts security, you will ALWAYS have that game, on any PC you want, available to you. You can't "lose" a game over steam, that's the point. If you uninstall it, it sits in your library as a free download link to the files. Plus, under your account settings you have the receipts to all the downloads and purchases you make, and Valve customer service is great.

3 They accept prepaid mastercards/visa. I'm just turning 19 in a few days and I'll have my first credit card, and I've been using prepaid cards for years. I occasionally use a friends credit card because I trust and love steam and so does everybody else lol.

It's up to you, you can buy CD's and have a cluttered gaming space in which you can't take with you, or keep from breaking indefinitely, or keep from expiring warantys or disc scratch replacement warranty, and buy things at full price.

That's because I am a guy who knows well where and how to download patches and that's not a matter of vast proportions in innovation , but rather spoiling us, whatever, the idea is i explained before , forced updates aren't always great from a viewpoint of tweaking,modding. etc.

Originally Posted by FordGT90Concept

Exactly.


I agree with the OP. /fin

With who?

Originally Posted by 1Kurgan1

Thats not the point of DRM, thats the point of that new strategy of charging $10 to each person who buys a game second hand to be able to use the online abilities. DRM is to stop their shit from getting stolen, and it makes sense, it sucks that they have to go to such great length and sometimes it gives people who bought the game issues. But do you just let people steal from you? And if you knew someone that did steal from you, what would you do?

Agreed

Originally Posted by Laurijan

i dont like steam for one reason - $ is not €

Yes but that's everywhere , it's the hidden european union tax , i really don't like eu at all , they're going to make us like the usa. People seem to not even realize what are they going into.

Originally Posted by Mr McC

Again, I disagree. Piracy is blamed for far too much, and all too often used as an excuse for other agendas. Clearly the Internet has exaggerated piracy to some extent, but people were filling up both sides of a D90 cassette with Commodore 64 or Spectrum games long before the Web became common in households. In other words, I question whether piracy rates have increased to the extent that the companies claim. Moreover, given that it is clearly not working, as you yourself point out, why do they keep using it? They have most certainly lost sales by employing certain types of DRM, why do they keep using it? The answer has to be that tying up the second-hand market provides enough profit to offset any losses.

Here's a question: how many blank tapes did Sony sell in the VHS/ghetto blaster heyday? Did they think people were using these resources to record their singing voices in the shower? These are the same people trying to ram Securom down everbody's throat.

The focus of DRM, rather than preventing piracy, is to redefine the very concept of ownership. To take your analogy: you will never own another another car, cars will simply be leased to you, so you really shouldn't talk about "your" car.

To get back on topic, it is clear that most of us agree that Steam has triumphed and represents a useful tool on balance. However, it remains DRM and we should never forget that, nor should we be so eager to relinquish our ability to resell games, despite the advantages offered by any particular service.

Wrong, let's not allow the authorities to exceed their powers employing murder rates as an excuse.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Gzero

HAHAH

Oh wait please tell me your not serious? You don't even own the license if you pay for that service.

Anyway back on topic. I don't feel Steam offers me great value for money. You lock ALL of your games to one account.


<This user has logged on in another location>

There you have it, no one is allowed to play any of your other games whilst you play CSS etc. That right has been taken away from you.

So i guess you can't play multiple instances of the game , another negative.




Ok in the end , it's nontheless better than it looked at first, but what about profile settings, it's saved there , i can't edit the profile with programs , change profile-bound CFGs , and the rest , ... this is commonly used when modding tweaking , but i don't know if it's possible in steam.

[shevanel]

My daughter just downloaded steam because she wanted to download a few demos to take with her on vacation using the laptop...

I find it odd that she cannot add me to her contact list in the friends client until a game has been purchased on her account...

MEH

[RuskiSnajper]

You see , it's all about those little annoying details which don't make sense for an advanced user, that's like how windows is stupid sometimes , i just wish i would threw my PC off the window because it's sometimes SO DUMB and stuff doesn't want to work and is stupidly coded.

[ctrain]

Originally Posted by shevanel

My daughter just downloaded steam because she wanted to download a few demos to take with her on vacation using the laptop...

I find it odd that she cannot add me to her contact list in the friends client until a game has been purchased on her account...

MEH

Probably as a prevention measure against any kind of automated spam or whatever else you can imagine. The account is more likely going to be used for some kind of legitimate purpose (gaming!) if someones bought something on it.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by ctrain

Probably as a prevention measure against any kind of automated spam or whatever else you can imagine. The account is more likely going to be used for some kind of legitimate purpose (gaming!) if someones bought something on it.

yes. people would make an empty account, add you as a friend/send you a link, and use that link to steal your account.

many of these fakers/pirates wont buy games before trying to steal accounts, because it leaves some kind of trail that could be used to track them down.

[Gzero]

Originally Posted by RuskiSnajper

With who?


So i guess you can't play multiple instances of the game , another negative.

OP = thread starter.

I'm not bothered that no one else can play CSS on my CSS account whilst I play CSS as my example, but when I play CSS, why can't say my brother play HL2 or Just Cause 2 or any other game locked into my account.

I know people will just say, make a separate account, but that is impractical since it breaks Steam Friends (you would be constantly changing Friends name and having different friends in that list etc). Also how would you know what games to split across how many accounts? I have over 20 games on my Steam account. Some require Steam to function.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by Gzero

OP = thread starter.

I'm not bothered that no one else can play CSS on my CSS account whilst I play CSS as my example, but when I play CSS, why can't say my brother play HL2 or Just Cause 2 or any other game locked into my account.

I know people will just say, make a separate account, but that is impractical since it breaks Steam Friends (you would be constantly changing Friends name and having different friends in that list etc). Also how would you know what games to split across how many accounts? I have over 20 games on my Steam account. Some require Steam to function.

yes, the inability to allow multiple PC's to play different games from the one account is a little annoying, but its offset by the cost. steam games are often half the price of retail here (sometimes its MORE than retail, but i buy on discount when its sometimes 1/4 retail or less) - so you could always buy two copies for the same price, and there is your MP.