The movie industry is dictating that DRM be built into Intel's new line of CPUs.

[trickson]

One way to stop all this madness is stop buying all media and stop DL all media . Do not go to movies , Do not buy lady gaga CD's . Stop buying there crap and you will see a huge out cry from them . Make them really starve by keeping your cash at home .

[digibucc]

Originally Posted by trickson

One way to stop all this madness is stop buying all media and stop DL all media . Do not go to movies , Do not buy lady gaga CD's . Stop buying there crap and you will see a huge out cry from them . Make them really starve by keeping your cash at home .

right-

if you don't like it, @#%^& off.

and again, there will never be enough people doing so to make an impact. NEVER. we are a consumer society, and that is not going to change by our own hand.

Originally Posted by garyinhere

So everyone is mad because you think you should have the Right to access privately owned media the way you see fit instead of how the owner wants to channel it to you?

when they are more concerned about making even MORE money, when they already have most of it (than giving customers an enjoyable experience) - yeah, that makes me very mad.

[Bo$$]

Originally Posted by digibucc

that escaped me, good point.

though as of now that is not the case, i am sure that would be their plan if amd doesn't follow suit as well.

if they do then what is the point of the DRM at all, there are no pirate CPUs. then what about mobile devices, like new phones with HDMI outputs, see what i mean for intel to take this on is a serious risk.

[trickson]

Originally Posted by digibucc

right-

if you don't like it, @#%^& off.

and again, there will never be enough people doing so to make an impact. NEVER. we are a consumer society, and that is not going to change by our own hand.

Yep this is why we are constantly under surveillance and watched every were we go . No one has spoken out against it no one cares any more . There job there life is too fast paced and we are all too ready to lay down our rights and get felt up at air ports to really care any more !

[digibucc]

Originally Posted by trickson

Yep this is why we are constantly under surveillance and watched every were we go . No one has spoken out against it no one cares any more . There job there life is too fast paced and we are all too ready to lay down our rights and get felt up at air ports to really care any more !

i didn't say ACCEPT it, i said you can't change it. you can however, do what you want and just not get caught.

as long as you are being ethically "good" i see no problem with it. just because something is a law or a rule doesn't mean it's right.
there are many laws that are simply not enforced, because no one wants them too.
laws don't determine whether people live "good or bad" right or wrong, but rather give an accepted recourse against those who don't

if there were no laws, you couldn't punish people without others getting in a tizzy.
however that doesn't mean that laws actually DETERMINE right or wrong. we do that.

come on mailman, i know you are authoritarian and guess you'd have to be ripping your hair out at that

[TheMailMan78]

I support DRM. Some of you guys may remember I fought a one man battle with about 10 members about DRM in an old thread. I am 100% for anything that may stop pirating. However DRM in my CPU? WTF? No way man.

[streetfighter 2]

I blame the Jews in Hollywood. You know-- Spike Lee, Francis Ford Coppola, Quentin Tarantino, etc.

Did I mention I don't know what the hell I'm talking about?

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by digibucc

come on mailman, i know you are authoritarian and guess you'd have to be ripping your hair out at that

WTF are you talking about!? I hate authoritarian governments. Anyway lets not derail this.

[Bo$$]

soon a DRM in Windows

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by Bo$$

soon a DRM in Windows

Where have you been for the last 10 years?

[digibucc]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

WTF are you talking about!? I hate authoritarian governments.

im saying in the way you see the world, not in your preferred governmental system.
you came across to me, that you believed (stronger than i at least) that rules and laws are very important, moreso than individual ethics.

i am very sorry if i got that wrong, and it was obviously wrong for me to assume and say so.
that is though, the perception i have gotten in the past, from discussions like these.

[Bo$$]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Where have you been for the last 10 years?

What DRM does windows have? i havent ever personally bought a copy of windows, the last copy my dad bought was XP no DRM there

I wonder how Windows 7 is running right now

[digibucc]

Originally Posted by Bo$$

What DRM does windows have? i havent ever personally bought a copy of windows, the last copy my dad bought was XP no DRM there

I wonder how Windows 7 is running right now

xp had activation & keys, that's drm.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by digibucc

im saying in the way you see the world, not in your preferred governmental system.
you came across to me, that you believed (stronger than i at least) that rules and laws are very important, moreso than individual ethics.

i am very sorry if i got that wrong, and it was obviously wrong for me to assume and say so. that is though the perception i have gotten in the past, from arguments like these.

No problem. I am about laws the fit within our Constitution "American". Nothing more. Nothing less. If you are from another nation then thats your business not mine. However people now make "laws" that fit their "ethics". They do not care if it tramples others liberty's. Oh and I use "ethics" and "laws" loosely. Replace "laws" with bureaucrats and "ethics" with business deals and you get my drift. There is a big difference in doing what you "feel" and doing the right thing.

[digibucc]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

No problem. I am about laws that fit within our Constitution "American". Nothing more. Nothing less. If you are from another nation then thats your business not mine. However people now make "laws" that fit their "ethics". They do not care if it tramples others liberty's. Oh and I use "ethics" and "laws" loosely. Replace "laws" with bureaucrats and "ethics" with business deals and you get my drift. There is a big difference in doing what you "feel" and doing the right thing.

this just proves another thought of mine (that i fail to recognize often enough )
huge differences on the surface can often be explained, and people are a lot more alike than they seem or may think at first.

i perfectly get your drift, and totally agree. I would not have thought that would be the case.


and im sorry for the derail (to everyone) i think (hope) most has been said though.

[hat]

I don't want DRM in my processor (or anywhere else). I don't want someone holding my hand to make sure I don't steal. I don't want to be restricted to what I can and can't rightfully do based on the hardware I own, either. Those who will steal will do so. Someone will find a way around whatever "protection" is in place. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users.

[Mr McC]

DRM is big news in Spain at the minute: the law whereby web sites could be closed for hosting content deemed to infrige the rights of third parties via administrative rulings, without the need for a judicial decision, was rejected in the upper house of parliament. They are currently redrafting to present a revised version. Artists such as Javier Bardem and Alex de la Iglesia have spoken out in favour of the law and in support of the minister in question, whilst criticising weak ministers and a culture that views piracy as acceptable. Other artists and musicians have pointed out that most of their revenue is obtained via live performances and the publicity acquired through Internet hits, even where this involves illegal downloads, actually aids this endeavour. Associations in favour of consumers' rights point out that such laws protect corporate interests at the expense of personal freedoms. The argument is more or less mirrored in this thread and will be encountered with increasing frequency as "our" politicians and large corporations appear to be on the offensive.

I side with digibucc and against Cadaveca: politicians were voted in to protect my rights rather than corporate rights, amongst a host of other reasons that have already been better expressed by digibucc.

It seems to me that the companies advocating DRM are intent on attempting to retain an absolete business model: somebody is making money from all these downloads, if it's not the artist (and it never is), we have laws in place to deal with that already and if its not these companies, I'm not willing to recompense them beyond a certain point for failing to adapt, either in the form of more money, less freedoms or greater inconvenience.

The States recently passed a similar law, if I am not mistaken, along with a law guaranteeing Internet freedom: how can we guarantee Internet freedom whilst pushing DRM specifically designed to ensure that certain companies retain or develop monopolies? Again, money is being made, is it simply a case of their dissatisfaction with a slice that many would view as more than ample?

Realistically, these processors will be built, will include the DRM and will sell, but, in any event, I choose to stand with the loosing party.

[hat]

We passed no law. That's the FCC pushing their Net Neutrality nonsense, without going through the rest of the government (Senate, House, then on to the President). People creating laws out of thin air seems to be popular around here.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by hat

I don't want DRM in my processor (or anywhere else). I don't want someone holding my hand to make sure I don't steal. I don't want to be restricted to what I can and can't rightfully do based on the hardware I own, either. Those who will steal will do so. Someone will find a way around whatever "protection" is in place. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users.

Ill just toss this in. "If you are doing nothing wrong, what do you fear" is a classic response to this. My response is "If you trust the people and are not trying to control them what do you fear?"

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by hat

We passed no law. That's the FCC pushing their Net Neutrality nonsense, without going through the rest of the government (Senate, House, then on to the President). People creating laws out of thin air seems to be popular around here.

Yes, that's what I was referring to, cheers.

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

I support DRM. Some of you guys may remember I fought a one man battle with about 10 members about DRM in an old thread. I am 100% for anything that may stop pirating. However DRM in my CPU? WTF? No way man.

But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.


I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...

If in the end, the DRM has no effect, and is seamless in such a way that it has no impact on your experience, then what's the issue?

All the actual complaints i hear in here have nothing to do with DRM, nor any of the limitations contained within DRM itself...it's more an outcry about "Big Brother" poking thier nose in your "business".


There's no loss of freedoms...no loss of rights...not ones that are real rights or freedoms, anyway. There are things that limit your choices when it comes to consumable content, but as none of these actaully impact your health(other than maybe mental health), I find any complaints about DRM as kinda close-minded about the entire situation as a whole. Limitation of choices pertaining to goods produced solely for comspumption and purchase, and that are completly optional purchases, makes sense.


The problem of piracy exists. DRM seeks to be the solution. While it may not take the avenues most want, I cannot see any legitimate restrictions placed by DRM that aren't warranted...nor are they against any law.

[streetfighter 2]

Originally Posted by Mr McC

I side with digibucc and against Cadaveca: politicians were voted in to protect my rights rather than corporate rights, amongst a host of other reasons that have already been better expressed by digibucc.

The opposing (which isn't to say my) perspective might say: in order to preserve the prospering society with which you live in, the interests of the rich (read corporations) must be protected so that they'll give jobs to poor useless worms like us. Also given that a huge, huge, absolutely unfathomably large chunk of the cheddar in the USA is nothing more than intellectual property...

Originally Posted by hat

We passed no law. That's the FCC pushing their Net Neutrality nonsense, without going through the rest of the government (Senate, House, then on to the President). People creating laws out of thin air seems to be popular around here.

They're just extending jurisdiction; that with which many argued they had domain way back when Al Gore was inventing tubes. The Judiciary can still tell them to STFU NOOBS N4W GBTW!

[crazyeyesreaper]

meh i could care less im tired of spending hard earned money on media that sucks because to test it before hand would make me a pirate.

Im tired of buying something and being told how exactly i can use what i already paid for

might as well tell me if i buy gas at the gas station i can only put it in my car to have any other use would be illegal

that if i feed my dog bread i should go to jail because the bread is expressly made so i can make a sandwich or toast only.

People need to get a grip theres something to be said about protecting intellectual property but we have hit the wall where if they start putting it into hardware ill stop buying hardware. If i cant try a product before i buy it i refuse to buy it. I dont buy movies or even go to the movies anymore i dont buy CD's we have a thing called radio so i dont really give a shit. Games are fun but you know what if. This gets any further out of control ill just stop buying all forms of media.

I dont need the internet i dont need movies music or games. To be honest ill keep the $700-1000 i spend every year on games and media expenses and ill take up some other hobby. Ill start fishing or hunting. or get back into building Model trains again. We are at a crossroad now where we dont actually own anything anymore.

Buy a house you supposedly own it but you pay taxes to the extent its actually cheaper to just rent then it is to own where i am and let the owner fix the problems. I already dont own the CD i bought i dont own the movies on DvD i dont own anything. Adding DRM to my pc hardware you might as well say i dont own my GPU my CPU or RAM that i dont own the Monitor in front of me or my keyboard. By extention i own nothing so tell me if i already own nothing why am i busting my ass every day at work? why bother seems to be if i dont own anything i buy im better off being a slob and collecting a check from the government with which to buy that which i dont own.

Theres something to be said of law order and rights but im sorry i really dont think i want to live in a society that i basically rent and can use something only as long as im allowed to and then its magically gone.

Buy a console spent $60 on a game at launch u can play online wait till the price drops to $20 the servers for online play are already shut down so cant game with friends. Society is fast paced for sure but fuck it id rather you put me 6 feet under so i can turn over in my grave already cause this shit just keeps getting even more ridiculous.

and as far as artists go i know alot of them in the game industry and not a damn one likes drm or supports it, they only accept it because no drm means no funding. Then again every games a sequal and just regurgitated shit from last year and the year before so these artists that need to eat well if they made something that wasnt recycled crap ive seen over and over every year for 5+ years maybe people might be willing to pay for it, but no everyones expected to eat the shit sandwich and smile because if you dont spent $60 for the game $50 for all the DLC and say yes master thank you master every time someone bones you in the ass your obviously a pirate. I think its time i just said fuck the media and go back outside. Id rather waste my money hitting on women at the bar then to buy something i cant actually enjoy do to all the random fucking restricitions.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.


I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...

If in the end, the DRM has no effect, and is seamless in such a way that it has no impact on your experience, then what's the issue?

All the actual complaints i hear in here have nothing to do with DRM, nor any of the limitations contained within DRM itself...it's more an outcry about "Big Brother" poking thier nose in your "business".


There's no loss of freedoms...no loss of rights...not ones that are real rights or freedoms, anyway. There are things that limit your choices when it comes to consumable content, but as none of these actaully impact your health(other than maybe mental health), I find any complaints about DRM as kinda close-minded about the entire situation as a whole. Limitation of choices pertaining to goods produced solely for comspumption and purchase, and that are completly optional purchases, makes sense.


The problem of piracy exists. DRM seeks to be the solution. While it may not take the avenues most want, I cannot see any legitimate restrictions placed by DRM that aren't warranted...nor are they against any law.

So you trust the company to keep something like this strictly to DRM? I'm sorry but I don't trust anyone like Intel like that. At least with software you can control it. With a CPU its game over. I understand what you are saying. I just trust human natures predictability better.

This is what will happen.
1.DRM in CPU
2.DRM in CPU circumvented
3.DRM in CPU+Software
4.DRM in CPU+Software circumvented
5.DRM in CPU+Software+Government monitoring via both hardware and software.

Screw this. I'm putting on my tin foil hat now and going back to my speak and spell!

[Mr McC]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.


I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...

If in the end, the DRM has no effect, and is seamless in such a way that it has no impact on your experience, then what's the issue?

I'll concede that point, but stating that a lobotomised patient is unaware that he has been lobotomised appears to be a similar argument.

Originally Posted by streetfighter 2

The opposing (which isn't to say my) perspective might say: in order to preserve the prospering society with which you live in, the interests of the rich (read corporations) must be protected so that they'll give jobs to poor useless worms like us. Also given that a huge, huge, absolutely unfathomably large chunk of the cheddar in the USA is nothing more than intellectual property...

Trickle-down economics is a fallacy: people are too greedy.

Originally Posted by streetfighter 2

They're just extending jurisdiction; that with which many argued they had domain way back when Al Gore was inventing tubes. The Judiciary can still tell them to STFU NOOBS N4W GBTW!

I have not lost all faith in Americans.