Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II

[JF-AMD]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

and JF-AMD is here trying to tell us to not get our expectations too high...

No, I believe that Bulldozer will be great. All I can do is point people to the real data. For all I know this data could be true, I am not denying that, only pointing oug that the data, as far as I know, did not come from AMD.

I will never stop people from thinking my product will be great, but I will stop people from making untrue assumptions, like that this is somehow a master planned leak campaign.

[cadaveca]

Yeah, I get that. I'm not saying Bulldozer will be terrible...how could I know...you haven't sent me parts yet!

[blibba]

Originally Posted by CDdude55

Ya i bought the X58 board first and then in a couple weeks, maybe a month i picked up the i7 CPU, and then a couple weeks later i picked up the triple channel memory and then finally i got it all out and made a monstrous system....

Were the components that you bought in advance on special offer or something?

[CDdude55]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

Dude, I don't know why you think I have money.

Arguing over if INtel of AMD is the right chioce, based on cost, doesn't make any sense, as Intel is that high-end platform. In reality, very few can afford it.

AMD is the "budget" alternative. They currently bring good performance...not the best, but good, for far lower cost of entry.

I don't think the majority of users in this forum applies to any of this, as we are definitely a minority. Most people buy a computer, as use it for three to five years, while many of us change our rigs out of boredom.

You're just taking this far too personally.

That's because i know you work for Goldman Sachs. lol jk

I'm not arguing over pricing for Intel or AMD chips, that's a different debate in itself. More of just that it is possible for most if needed/wanted can afford the high end platforms if determined to get it and needed for what they want to do with their system. No where was i saying that Intel chips/chipsets are not the best current performing platform at the moment and that AMD is the price for performance champ. I'm not trying to take anything to far, just saying that it is in fact possible to afford what is considered the unaffordable by many if need be, though of course it largely depends on the circumstance of the persons needs and financial well being in the end.

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I am quite serious when I say I need to be AMD's next CEO.

lol Go for it if you think you have the right stuff. Plus being a fellow TPU member that would give me an opportunity to get a discount. lol

[CDdude55]

Originally Posted by blibba

Were the components that you bought in advance on special offer or something?

Nope all the i7/X58 stuff i bought was full price, the EVGA board at the time was $300, the i7 920 was about $289.99 etc. Buying the parts in increments helped a ton, as dropping around $750 for the mobo, CPU and RAM was out of the question, so i bought the mobo first so i'd have a base to build off of and from there i eventually picked up the 920 and tri channel DDR3 memory.

Recently i did a slight down/sidegrade to a 1055T though, as the X58 platform was getting under utilized. As i said before, no point in keeping the Enzo Ferrari around if im just going to be driving it around the block (all i manly do is gaming), so i'm planning. to sell the parts off.

[TheMailMan78]

You guys gotta understand that where cadaveca lives its cold. Not a little cold ether. IT FU#KING COLD. So all day he stays indoors and reads.....and reads.........faps and reads. He doesnt even need LN2 to cool his rig. He just opens a window.

[HalfAHertz]

Originally Posted by CDdude55

Nope all the i7/X58 stuff i bought was full price, the EVGA board at the time was $300, the i7 920 was about $289.99 etc. Buying the parts in increments helped a ton, as dropping around $750 for the mobo, CPU and RAM was out of the question, so i bought the mobo first so i'd have a base to build off of and from there i eventually picked up the 920 and tri channel DDR3 memory.

Recently i did a slight down/sidegrade to a 1055T though, as the X58 platform was getting under utilized. As i said before, no point in keeping the Enzo Ferrari around if im just going to be driving it around the block (all i manly do is gaming), so i'm planning. to sell the parts off.

Interesting choice
Are there any games in which the t1055 pulls ahead? Most reviews vouch for the i7 for gaming and te t1055 for productivity, where you may need more cores...

[Bo$$]

Originally Posted by HalfAHertz

Interesting choice
Are there any games in which the t1055 pulls ahead? Most reviews vouch for the i7 for gaming and te t1055 for productivity, where you may need more cores...

through HT i7 has more virtual cores, but with overall value (bang for the buck/pound) is where AMD pulls ahead everytime

in gaming its all about clocks, they are all really close, you can have any high end quad core/higher and have blazing framerates

[CDdude55]

Originally Posted by HalfAHertz

Interesting choice
Are there any games in which the t1055 pulls ahead? Most reviews vouch for the i7 for gaming and te t1055 for productivity, where you may need more cores...

Some games do pull ahead, but i believe that's mainly because those particular games prefer the 6 physical cores as opposed to the 8 threads of the i7, but overall there hasn't been much of a noticeable difference at all. Since i do no photoshop, CAD, video editing, heavy benchmarking etc, i'm really not noticing a difference overall, but that's of course because my main goal is gaming.

[blibba]

Originally Posted by CDdude55

Nope all the i7/X58 stuff i bought was full price, the EVGA board at the time was $300, the i7 920 was about $289.99 etc. Buying the parts in increments helped a ton, as dropping around $750 for the mobo, CPU and RAM was out of the question, so i bought the mobo first so i'd have a base to build off of and from there i eventually picked up the 920 and tri channel DDR3 memory.

Recently i did a slight down/sidegrade to a 1055T though, as the X58 platform was getting under utilized. As i said before, no point in keeping the Enzo Ferrari around if im just going to be driving it around the block (all i manly do is gaming), so i'm planning. to sell the parts off.

I'm interested as to why you didn't simply put the $300 for the motherboard to one side until you had an additional $290 for the CPU as well - mightn't the motherboard have been cheaper by then?

I realise that taking a $750 hit is a lot, but if you put $300 aside and save up then as prices go down and bank balances increase with interest, it tends to be more cost effective.

Or am I missing something?

[DigitalUK]

probably because if he hadnt brought the motherboard when he did he may have broken into what he saved and never would have got any of it. which is what alot of us do.

[CDdude55]

Originally Posted by DigitalUK

probably because if he hadnt brought the motherboard when he did he may have broken into what he saved and never would have got any of it. which is what alot of us do.

Exactly.

When i bought the motherboard it basically pushed me to get the rest of the parts to complete it, it's tough to wait because eventually something will more likely come up and i'll end up having to wait longer. When you buy the parts in increments it feels satisfying to know you still have a good chunk left in your pay check for your priorities while at the same time satisfying your needs to build a kick ass system.

[Kantastic]

Originally Posted by CDdude55

Exactly.

When i bought the motherboard it basically pushed me to get the rest of the parts to complete it, it's tough to wait because eventually something will more likely come up and i'll end up having to wait longer. When you buy the parts in increments it feels satisfying to know you still have a good chunk left in your pay check for your priorities while at the same time satisfying your needs to build a kick ass system.

That does not apply to everyone. You essentially spent a small amount more than you should have had you, successfully, saved up enough to purchase the parts in one go.

[CDdude55]

Originally Posted by Kantastic

That does not apply to everyone. You essentially spent a small amount more than you should have had you, successfully, saved up enough to purchase the parts in one go.

Right im not claiming that it applys to everyone, that was actually the first time i bought parts incrementally instead of everything at one time, and it worked out. Even if i had to spend a bit more for each part, the bigger picture was more important, which was that i got the parts through a way that was more financially suitable for me at the time.

[Thatguy]

Originally Posted by JF-AMD

No, I believe that Bulldozer will be great. All I can do is point people to the real data. For all I know this data could be true, I am not denying that, only pointing oug that the data, as far as I know, did not come from AMD.

I will never stop people from thinking my product will be great, but I will stop people from making untrue assumptions, like that this is somehow a master planned leak campaign.

If you guys would get client to feed us something to chew on for a while it would calm down the negative spin. How about some videos of bulldozer systems running in the wild. Give us something. we are all dying to build on AMD's first new arch in years.

Come on, you've got a captive audience. Pitch the sale !

[kirtar]

Originally Posted by Thatguy

If you guys would get client to feed us something to chew on for a while it would calm down the negative spin. How about some videos of bulldozer systems running in the wild. Give us something. we are all dying to build on AMD's first new arch in years.

Come on, you've got a captive audience. Pitch the sale !

They'll release info when they think the time is right (which is apparently not now). Also, I guess I have a different definition of "captive audience" than you do.

I guess I can understand why some people are dying information to be released right now or soon (tax refunds), but I'm fine with waiting. I'm not building until the summer anyways.

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

The difference is I can use the system with the new parts were you couldn't. AMD=Working computer. Intel=Takes up closet space until done.

As for the Photoshop stuff I am not going to debate it. The Mod said to stop and I don't need anymore trouble.

So what? Still have the same performance either way. New hardware does you no good if it doesn't benefit your setup, just like it does me no good sitting in my closet. Might as well just wait to buy. The results are the same. Both of us are still using, and getting the performance of, an older cpu, yet have shiny new mobos in our possession.

Again, end results are identical.

[bear jesus]

Can't we just drop the subject of buying parts, we are all humans with free will and we shall chose to do whatever makes us happy even if it defies logic, not everything that makes people happy has to be sensible or logical, just look at religion

I just can't wait for bulldozer to come out so we can see some real performance numbers and one thing i really want to see is how well the launch models overclock, i hope that they can at least be pushed up to 4.20GHz if not more.

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by bear jesus

Can't we just drop the subject of buying parts, we are all humans with free will and we shall chose to do whatever makes us happy even if it defies logic, not everything that makes people happy has to be sensible or logical, just look at religion

I just can't wait for bulldozer to come out so we can see some real performance numbers and one thing i really want to see is how well the launch models overclock, i hope that they can at least be pushed up to 4.20GHz if not more.

I agree that it's personal preference. What i don't agree about is the claim that AMD is better for allowing old cpus in new boards, but not vice-versa. To use Bulldozer, you must still buy both a new board and a new cpu. Same as Intel.

[jmcslob]

It still makes some sense for those people that have an AM3 cpu on an AM2+ board that want to upgrade to DDR3 as They will save money as compared to the people upgraded to AM3...The people that have an AM3 board however will not gain anything so they might as well wait and see the performance of BD and then decide whether it's better to upgrade the whole platform or move over to Intel

[Wile E]

Originally Posted by jmcslob

It still makes some sense for those people that have an AM3 cpu on an AM2+ board that want to upgrade to DDR3 as They will save money as compared to the people upgraded to AM3...The people that have an AM3 board however will not gain anything so they might as well wait and see the performance of BD and then decide whether it's better to upgrade the whole platform or move over to Intel

But moving to DDR3 on current AMD cpus doesn't really provide much benefit. No matter how the current AMD owners look at it, they still have to buy both a board and cpu, at minimum, to see the performance benefits of dozer.

[bear jesus]

Originally Posted by Wile E

I agree that it's personal preference. What i don't agree about is the claim that AMD is better for allowing old cpus in new boards, but not vice-versa. To use Bulldozer, you must still buy both a new board and a new cpu. Same as Intel.

That is true, with past boards it has been different but this time around things have changed a bit.

But there are many people like myself running an AM3 phenom on an AM2 board with DDR2, i want to increase my ram capacity an speed and i see little point in buying 8GB of DDR2 as i have 4 1GB sticks so they would need to be fully replaced plus this board just does not like me pushing my north bridge so in this specific case an AM3+ board with my current CPU and new ram should help increase performance and give me the ability to get a bulldozer in the future assuming that would be a good choice.

In the case with people running an AM3 CPU on an AM2 board it is easier/cheaper to upgrade in a way that could (not saying it would) show performance increases while staying with AMD, in that case it's almost like running an i5 on a board for the core 2 quad with DDR2 and skipping the 1156 board to go straight to an 1155 board using the exact same CPU but with DDR3 so i understand from that point of view but an AM3 CPU on an AM3 board being put into an AM3+ board would be more like putting an 1156 i5 on an 1155 board so kind of pointless.

Of course i know none of those Intel based examples would work i was just trying to use the CPU generations and boards as examples as to why people still say it's easier with AMD as there is still some compatibility between boards and CPU's.

Even though no matter what sticking with the same CPU wont give any major performance increase for some it would be the best choice assuming they intended to stick with AMD before knowing how well bulldozer performs and costs.

*edit*
most of what i just said has been pointed out before i posted.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by Wile E

But moving to DDR3 on current AMD cpus doesn't really provide much benefit. No matter how the current AMD owners look at it, they still have to buy both a board and cpu, at minimum, to see the performance benefits of dozer.

you can boost ram CAPACITY very large amounts going to DDR3.


2GB sticks is the best you can get in DDR2, and it limits you to 800Mhz to run 4 of them.

DDR3 you can move to 4GB sticks on 1600Mhz.

double the ram amount, double the Mhz - that IS quite a boost. sure, 8GB+ of ram isnt for everyone... but its not a non issue.

[bear jesus]

Originally Posted by Mussels

you can boost ram CAPACITY very large amounts going to DDR3.


2GB sticks is the best you can get in DDR2, and it limits you to 800Mhz to run 4 of them.

DDR3 you can move to 4GB sticks on 1600Mhz.

double the ram amount, double the Mhz - that IS quite a boost. sure, 8GB+ of ram isnt for everyone... but its not a non issue.

One thing i have to ask is I'm running 4 1gb sticks between 1066mhz and 1120mhz, would higher capacity modules cause issues with running it so fast or is it a board specific thing?

That reminds me of one other reason why i want an AM3+ board with some DDR3, i have 4GB of 1066mhz ram that i can push to 1092hmz or 1120mhz depending on the timings but at that point it becomes a major limit to my overclock reducing how far i can push my north bridge and HT unless i drop the memory down to 800mhz and push up from there, i would hope buying some 1866mhz ram would remove the sticks as the limiting factor and put it back to the CPU allowing me to get around or over 1600mhz while also pushing the speed of the north bridge and HT further than i can now giving me a better overall increase.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by bear jesus

One thing i have to ask is I'm running 4 1gb sticks between 1066mhz and 1120mhz, would higher capacity modules cause issues with running it so fast or is it a board specific thing?

That reminds me of one other reason why i want an AM3+ board with some DDR3, i have 4GB of 1066mhz ram that i can push to 1092hmz or 1120mhz depending on the timings but at that point it becomes a major limit to my overclock reducing how far i can push my north bridge and HT unless i drop the memory down to 800mhz and push up from there, i would hope buying some 1866mhz ram would remove the sticks as the limiting factor and put it back to the CPU allowing me to get around or over 1600mhz while also pushing the speed of the north bridge and HT further than i can now giving me a better overall increase.

its the memory controller.

Is your memory modules one sided? that may be why it works well for you. If thats the case, then yes, 2GB sticks (double sided) would cause you the same problem.

moving to DDR3 solves those problems, yes. not sure what the upper limit there is, as i've got a BE chip and never bothered looking into it.