NVIDIA Developing Subpixel Reconstruction Antialiasing to Compete with MLAA

btarunr · Jan 31, 2011, 05:48 AM

NVIDIA is developing its own antialiasing (AA) technology to rival morphological antialiasing (MLAA). The subpixel reconstruction antialiasing (SRAA) NVIDIA is currently conducting research on aims to provide better image quality with minimal performance penalty. It "combines single-pixel (1x) shading with subpixel visibility to create antialiased images without increasing the shading cost," as NVIDIA puts it in its research abstract. SRAA is suited for rendering engines that don't use multisample antialiasing (MSAA) since they use deferred shading. For such renderers, SRAA works as a post-processing layer, just like MLAA.

Where SRAA defers from MLAA is that the new algorithm can better respect geometric boundaries and has a fixed runtime independent of scene and image complexity. SRAA benefits shading-bound applications. "For example, our implementation evaluates SRAA in 1.8 ms (1280x720) to yield antialiasing quality comparable to 4-16x shading. Thus SRAA would produce a net speedup over supersampling for applications that spend 1 ms or more on shading; for comparison, most modern games spend 5-10 ms shading. We also describe simplifications that increase performance by reducing quality," claims NVIDIA.

Source: NVIDIA Research

RejZoR · Jan 31, 2011, 06:12 AM

Good to hear NVIDIA is also working on this. Since AMD released MLAA i was pretty much locked to their products since i love MLAA so much. If NVIDIA pulls it off i'll be again able to choose between NVIDIA and AMD. Plus if they can make it to filter the image well with very little performance hit, that's even better. I'm hoping for GTX 600 series to already have this...

LAN_deRf_HA · Jan 31, 2011, 06:15 AM

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpo...40&postcount=5

ZoneDymo · Jan 31, 2011, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RejZoR

Good to hear NVIDIA is also working on this. Since AMD released MLAA i was pretty much locked to their products since i love MLAA so much. If NVIDIA pulls it off i'll be again able to choose between NVIDIA and AMD. Plus if they can make it to filter the image well with very little performance hit, that's even better. I'm hoping for GTX 600 series to already have this...

GTX 600 series??
Excuse me?

This sort of tech needs to be on the 8800 series and up not be exclusive to just the latest cards.

btarunr · Jan 31, 2011, 07:25 AM

SRAA can technically be deployed to all current-generation NV GPU users via driver update.

Bjorn_Of_Iceland · Jan 31, 2011, 07:59 AM

Im thinking any nv gpu is capable as long as it can receive programmable shaders (G80 and above)

Jan 31, 2011, 08:23 AM

I hope they don't have the blurring and text fracking of the MLAA...

Jack Doph · Jan 31, 2011, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAViX

I hope they don't have the blurring and text fracking of the MLAA...

That's mainly a driver issue I found.
The current driver (11.1) has removed all those oddities for me

alwayssts · Jan 31, 2011, 08:56 AM

While this tech is all well and good, did anyone find the last sentence woefully out of place?

It felt like they were opportunely calling allusion to the AMD default texture quality blunder. While that wasn't cool on AMD's part, I feel they've been called on it enough (and have since fixed it.)

It's kind of like: "And one more thing...*kicks opponent in the balls when they aren't looking.*"

How tactful from a company that hardware engineering is realistically slightly behind on average, even if their software and marketing teams are ahead. I still remember 3Dmark03 tricks before they started (insert PC phrase) companies to develop toward their hardware differences/strengths, ala Heaven/HAWX2 this go-round, PhysX/AA the last; Let's not forget doing Vantage physics scores on the GPU (when the test isn't using the GPU for anything else) when intended for a CPU after conveniently buying the company that owned the API. There are many more hardware/software examples of unrepresentative performance/quality and underhanded tactics.

Not trying to be a troll or start a combative thread; nVIDIA has a good lineup with great features at admirable cost/performance ratios, and the 600 series likely will be as well. Just putting it out there that they don't need to lower quality settings for performance when their settings/features are almost-always the optimized default, and even then there are tricks. Just because the tactic is different, doesn't make it any less bullshit.

Jack Doph · Jan 31, 2011, 09:03 AM

Well put alwayssts xD

RejZoR · Jan 31, 2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoneDymo

GTX 600 series??
Excuse me?

This sort of tech needs to be on the 8800 series and up not be exclusive to just the latest cards.

You wish. I never said it can't be done, it WON'T be done from a marketing perspective.
Radeon 9600 Pro was also able to utilize Adaptive AA but was never officially supported.
GeForce 6600GT was also able to utilize Transparency AA but was never officially supported.

So even if GeForce 2 could do it, they won't enable it to existing users just like AMD doesn't officially support MLAA for HD5000 users even though the cards can easily do it.
So yes, GTX 600 series...

bear jesus · Jan 31, 2011, 09:26 AM

It's nice to see Nvidia is working on this, the more things that one company bring out then the other company counters with their own version the better for all users as it just helps push for better and better image quality.

Jack Doph · Jan 31, 2011, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RejZoR

....AMD doesn't officially support MLAA for HD5000 users even though the cards can easily do it....

And it's available to 5xxx users..

RejZoR · Jan 31, 2011, 09:33 AM

No it's not. Via hacked drivers, yes. Officially. No. Only driver that supported it was 10.10e hotfix and supposedly 11.1a hotfix. None of the WHQL drivers support it.

Jack Doph · Jan 31, 2011, 09:36 AM

Yup, it is

This is a screenie of my HD5850

Jack Doph · Jan 31, 2011, 09:44 AM

I must add that this is actually starting to go off-topic..

For all intents & purposes, this idea of nVidia is not a bad one.

Bjorn_Of_Iceland · Jan 31, 2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RejZoR

You wish. I never said it can't be done, it WON'T be done from a marketing perspective.

Well they did include 8 series to utilize physx when it came out 2 years later after the card's debut through drivers.. and that was when they were selling 9 series and 200 series.

Their software / driver department is huge, I think they can easily pull it off (including the 8 series capable of Subpixel Reconstruction Antialiasing.. heck even 6 series, since its capable of programable shaders lol)

KashunatoR · Jan 31, 2011, 11:28 AM

they should have done this for a long time

RejZoR · Jan 31, 2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn_Of_Iceland

Well they did include 8 series to utilize physx when it came out 2 years later after the card's debut through drivers.. and that was when they were selling 9 series and 200 series.

Their software / driver department is huge, I think they can easily pull it off (including the 8 series capable of Subpixel Reconstruction Antialiasing.. heck even 6 series, since its capable of programable shaders lol)

Well, with PhysX its another story because in that case you need a reason for developers to take time and develop with PhysX. Where in SRAA, it doesn't matter. It just works in any game.
Meaning they do not depend on 3rd party developers and as such don't need the attention from the entire user base. It would be nice to have SRAA at least on GeForce 400 series and above, but i don't think it will happen.

Jan 31, 2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Doph

That's mainly a driver issue I found.
The current driver (11.1) has removed all those oddities for me

I'm still on 10.10e...To afraid to go to 11.1a

Or should I....?? (5870 user)

Q-ho · Jan 31, 2011, 01:49 PM

I hope NVIDIA will change the name coz so far SRAA means ..taking a sh** in my language .

char[] rager · Jan 31, 2011, 02:07 PM

Just a question...

Is MSAA still the best anti-aliasing in terms of picture quality? I could care less about performance impact.

dir_d · Jan 31, 2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by char[] rager

Just a question...

Is MSAA still the best anti-aliasing in terms of picture quality? I could care less about performance impact.

I think SSAA is best if im not mistaken.

bear jesus · Jan 31, 2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dir_d

I think SSAA is best if im not mistaken.

I think you are right.

It just sucks that it comes with the biggest performance hit

Jack Doph · Jan 31, 2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAViX

I'm still on 10.10e...To afraid to go to 11.1a

Or should I....?? (5870 user)

Well.. If you're not experiencing any issues.. is there really a compelling reason to update your drivers atm?

Perhaps wait for this month's release instead?

Jan 31, 2011, 05:48 AM	#1
btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 15,030 (7.23/day) Thanks: 790 Thanked 13,028 Times in 5,719 Posts System Specs	NVIDIA Developing Subpixel Reconstruction Antialiasing to Compete with MLAA NVIDIA is developing its own antialiasing (AA) technology to rival morphological antialiasing (MLAA). The subpixel reconstruction antialiasing (SRAA) NVIDIA is currently conducting research on aims to provide better image quality with minimal performance penalty. It "combines single-pixel (1x) shading with subpixel visibility to create antialiased images without increasing the shading cost," as NVIDIA puts it in its research abstract. SRAA is suited for rendering engines that don't use multisample antialiasing (MSAA) since they use deferred shading. For such renderers, SRAA works as a post-processing layer, just like MLAA. Where SRAA defers from MLAA is that the new algorithm can better respect geometric boundaries and has a fixed runtime independent of scene and image complexity. SRAA benefits shading-bound applications. "For example, our implementation evaluates SRAA in 1.8 ms (1280x720) to yield antialiasing quality comparable to 4-16x shading. Thus SRAA would produce a net speedup over supersampling for applications that spend 1 ms or more on shading; for comparison, most modern games spend 5-10 ms shading. We also describe simplifications that increase performance by reducing quality," claims NVIDIA. Source: NVIDIA Research

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Jan 31, 2011, 06:12 AM	#2
RejZoR Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Europe/Slovenia Posts: 3,979 (1.25/day) Thanks: 39 Thanked 758 Times in 542 Posts System Specs	Good to hear NVIDIA is also working on this. Since AMD released MLAA i was pretty much locked to their products since i love MLAA so much. If NVIDIA pulls it off i'll be again able to choose between NVIDIA and AMD. Plus if they can make it to filter the image well with very little performance hit, that's even better. I'm hoping for GTX 600 series to already have this... __________________ RejZoR's Little Secrets @ rejzor dot tk

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Jan 31, 2011, 06:15 AM	#3
LAN_deRf_HA Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,068 (2.14/day) Thanks: 295 Thanked 853 Times in 595 Posts System Specs	http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpo...40&postcount=5

Jan 31, 2011, 07:25 AM	#5
btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 15,030 (7.23/day) Thanks: 790 Thanked 13,028 Times in 5,719 Posts System Specs	SRAA can technically be deployed to all current-generation NV GPU users via driver update. __________________ Gadgets, Gaming, Phones, Tablets, Cameras, TVs, HiFi...NextPowerUp

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Bjorn_Of_Iceland Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Húsið mitt Posts: 2,623 (1.31/day) Thanks: 481 Thanked 366 Times in 272 Posts System Specs	Im thinking any nv gpu is capable as long as it can receive programmable shaders (G80 and above)

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Jan 31, 2011, 08:23 AM	#7
TAViX Guest Posts: n/a (0/day)	I hope they don't have the blurring and text fracking of the MLAA...

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Jan 31, 2011, 08:56 AM	#9
alwayssts Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 178 (0.10/day) Thanks: 7 Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts System Specs	While this tech is all well and good, did anyone find the last sentence woefully out of place? It felt like they were opportunely calling allusion to the AMD default texture quality blunder. While that wasn't cool on AMD's part, I feel they've been called on it enough (and have since fixed it.) It's kind of like: "And one more thing...kicks opponent in the balls when they aren't looking." How tactful from a company that hardware engineering is realistically slightly behind on average, even if their software and marketing teams are ahead. I still remember 3Dmark03 tricks before they started (insert PC phrase) companies to develop toward their hardware differences/strengths, ala Heaven/HAWX2 this go-round, PhysX/AA the last; Let's not forget doing Vantage physics scores on the GPU (when the test isn't using the GPU for anything else) when intended for a CPU after conveniently buying the company that owned the API. There are many more hardware/software examples of unrepresentative performance/quality and underhanded tactics. Not trying to be a troll or start a combative thread; nVIDIA has a good lineup with great features at admirable cost/performance ratios, and the 600 series likely will be as well. Just putting it out there that they don't need to lower quality settings for performance when their settings/features are almost-always the optimized default, and even then there are tricks. Just because the tactic is different, doesn't make it any less bullshit.

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Jan 31, 2011, 09:03 AM	#10
Jack Doph Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Upright down-under (Brisbane, Australia) Posts: 468 (0.53/day) Thanks: 836 Thanked 110 Times in 97 Posts System Specs	Well put alwayssts xD

Jan 31, 2011, 09:26 AM	#12
bear jesus Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Britland Posts: 1,534 (1.47/day) Thanks: 328 Thanked 201 Times in 163 Posts System Specs	It's nice to see Nvidia is working on this, the more things that one company bring out then the other company counters with their own version the better for all users as it just helps push for better and better image quality. __________________ The pastafarian jesus

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Jan 31, 2011, 09:33 AM	#14
RejZoR Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Europe/Slovenia Posts: 3,979 (1.25/day) Thanks: 39 Thanked 758 Times in 542 Posts System Specs	No it's not. Via hacked drivers, yes. Officially. No. Only driver that supported it was 10.10e hotfix and supposedly 11.1a hotfix. None of the WHQL drivers support it. __________________ RejZoR's Little Secrets @ rejzor dot tk

Jan 31, 2011, 09:36 AM	#15
Jack Doph Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Upright down-under (Brisbane, Australia) Posts: 468 (0.53/day) Thanks: 836 Thanked 110 Times in 97 Posts System Specs	Yup, it is This is a screenie of my HD5850

Jan 31, 2011, 09:44 AM	#16
Jack Doph Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Upright down-under (Brisbane, Australia) Posts: 468 (0.53/day) Thanks: 836 Thanked 110 Times in 97 Posts System Specs	I must add that this is actually starting to go off-topic.. For all intents & purposes, this idea of nVidia is not a bad one.

Jan 31, 2011, 11:28 AM	#18
KashunatoR Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Romania Posts: 88 (0.09/day) Thanks: 13 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts System Specs	they should have done this for a long time

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Jan 31, 2011, 01:49 PM	#21
Q-ho Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1 (0.00/day) Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I hope NVIDIA will change the name coz so far SRAA means ..taking a sh** in my language .

Jan 31, 2011, 02:07 PM	#22
char[] rager Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Computer Science Student Posts: 270 (0.24/day) Thanks: 133 Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts System Specs	Just a question... Is MSAA still the best anti-aliasing in terms of picture quality? I could care less about performance impact. __________________ Code: unsigned whatYouAreThinking = getch(); cout << "Did I Help You?" << endl; if(whatYouAreThinking == 'y') cout << "Press Thanks" << endl; else if(whatYouAreThinking == 'n') cout << "Thanks For Reading My Post" << endl; else cout << "Think Again ;)" << endl;

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