Watch out! Crysis 2 on Steam has 3rd party DRM, NOT disclosed on store page

[qubit]

UPDATE 07APR11: Steam store page now finally shows "3rd-party DRM: TAGES Solidshield ". Of course, I've heard nothing about my refund.

Look, 3rd party DRM not disclosed on store page: http://store.steampowered.com/app/99830/

Doesn't say, does it?

Yet it has a 5 machine activation limit. So f* epic fail of Steam.

I discovered this DRM when I ran Crysis for the first time, as it reported "activation successful". Also, adding Crysis to the Windows 7 Games Explorer and right clicking the icon gave two menu entries:

- de-authorize game. This is supposed to be done when moving the game from one PC to another
- EU EULA. This described the SolidShield DRM built into it

There's also this Steam forum thread on it: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=1808447

Steam have broken the UK Sale of Goods Act and the Distance Selling Regulations and the equivalent laws in other countries by leaving out significant info like this. Therefore, I've now raised a support ticket with Steam for a full refund and I'll let you know how I get on. I've also uninstalled the game from my PC. And I liked it, too. Such a shame about this.

Mods: I know there's the main Crysis thread, but I feel that this issue needs greater prominence rather than have it disappear into general Crysis chat, so please don't merge it with the other one. Perhaps it's a good idea to make this a sticky for a little while?

The SolidShield DRM described in the EULA:

Spoiler

3. Technical Protection Measures.
This Software uses Solidshield digital rights management technology. This Solidshield technology does not require a separate installation. For more information about Solidshield, visit http://www.solidshield.com. An Internet connection is required to authenticate the Software and verify your license (“Online Authentication”) using the serial code enclosed with the Software. CRYTEK reserves the right to validate your license through subsequent Online Authentications. If CRYTEK determines your license is not valid, you may not be able to use the Software. CRYTEK does not recommend that you attempt to disable Solidshield. If you disable or otherwise tamper with the technical protection measures, the Software may not function properly and you will have materially breached this License.

Each computer must be authorized before you can play the game. Authorization automatically occurs after authentication and license validation by CRYTEK (i.e., Online Authentication), described above. The first end user of this License may authorize up to five machines on which s/he may play the offline features of this game at any one time. Access to online features and/or services is addressed in Section 1.C, below. When you install the Software on a machine, the machine is automatically authorized (provided you have authorizations available). When you uninstall the Software from a machine, that machine is automatically de-authorized. You may manage your authorizations yourself by following the de-authorization instructions found at http://activate.ea.com/deauthorize. An Internet connection is required for de-authorization. Upon uninstallation of the Software and successful machine deauthorization, the Solidshield technology associated with this Software will be removed from your machine.

[LifeOnMars]

Cheeky bar stewards. Luckily, I'm yet to buy the game but thanks for bringing this to our attention Qubit.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by qubit

Look, 3rd party DRM not disclosed on store page: http://store.steampowered.com/app/99830/

Doesn't say, does it?

Yet it has a 5 machine activation limit. So f* epic fail of Steam.

I discovered this DRM when I ran Crysis for the first time, as it reported "activation successful". Also, adding Crysis to the Windows 7 Games Explorer and right clicking the icon gave two menu entries:

- de-authorize game. This is supposed to be done when moving the game from one PC to another
- EU EULA. This described the SolidShield DRM built into it

There's also this Steam forum thread on it: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=1808447

Steam have broken the UK Sale of Goods Act and the Distance Selling Regulations and the equivalent laws in other countries by leaving out significant info like this. Therefore, I've now raised a support ticket with Steam for a full refund and I'll let you know how I get on. I've also uninstalled the game from my PC. And I liked it, too. Such a shame about this.

Mods: I know there's the main Crysis thread, but I feel that this issue needs greater prominence rather than have it disappear into general Crysis chat, so please don't merge it with the other one. Perhaps it's a good idea to make this a sticky for a little while?

The SolidShield DRM described in the EULA:

Spoiler

3. Technical Protection Measures.
This Software uses Solidshield digital rights management technology. This Solidshield technology does not require a separate installation. For more information about Solidshield, visit http://www.solidshield.com. An Internet connection is required to authenticate the Software and verify your license (“Online Authentication”) using the serial code enclosed with the Software. CRYTEK reserves the right to validate your license through subsequent Online Authentications. If CRYTEK determines your license is not valid, you may not be able to use the Software. CRYTEK does not recommend that you attempt to disable Solidshield. If you disable or otherwise tamper with the technical protection measures, the Software may not function properly and you will have materially breached this License.

Each computer must be authorized before you can play the game. Authorization automatically occurs after authentication and license validation by CRYTEK (i.e., Online Authentication), described above. The first end user of this License may authorize up to five machines on which s/he may play the offline features of this game at any one time. Access to online features and/or services is addressed in Section 1.C, below. When you install the Software on a machine, the machine is automatically authorized (provided you have authorizations available). When you uninstall the Software from a machine, that machine is automatically de-authorized. You may manage your authorizations yourself by following the de-authorization instructions found at http://activate.ea.com/deauthorize. An Internet connection is required for de-authorization. Upon uninstallation of the Software and successful machine deauthorization, the Solidshield technology associated with this Software will be removed from your machine.

Up to five activations at one time. Not in total. Seems to be more then fair to me. Also Steam didn't do anything wrong. They are just the platform of delivery. Your beef is with Crytek. I doubt Steam will refund your money.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

Up to five activations at one time. Not in total. Seems to be more then fair to me. Also Steam didn't do anything wrong. They are just the platform of delivery. Your beef is with Crytek. I doubt Steam will refund your money.

No, my beef is with Steam, for missing such a crucial detail, as they're the seller, that is UK law.

Look up another game such as the original Crysis here and you'll see that the 3rd party DRM is disclosed.

It's irrelevant whether you personally think this DRM is fair or not, it should be disclosed so people can make an informed choice. I would have stayed away.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by qubit

No, my beef is with Steam, for missing such a crucial detail, as they're the seller, that is UK law.

Look up another game such as the original Crysis here and you'll see that the 3rd party DRM is disclosed.

It's irrelevant whether you personally think this DRM is fair or not, it should be disclosed so people can make an informed choice. I would have stayed away.

No worries I ain't going to argue DRM relevance Its just 5 computer simultaneously installed is more then fair.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

No worries I ain't going to argue DRM relevance Its just 5 computer simultaneously installed is more then fair.

Sure, it is 5 machines, I've already stated that.

If you think that's fair, then good for you and I honestly don't have a problem with it. I don't think any DRM is fair however, as you know.

This isn't the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of DRM though, just the fact that the DRM is not disclosed. Tell ya what, why not click that link in my sig and we can have at it over at NRNL!

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by qubit

Sure, it is 5 machines, I've already stated that.

If you think that's fair, then good for you and I honestly don't have a problem with it. I don't think any DRM is fair however, as you know.

This isn't the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of DRM though, just the fact that the DRM is not disclosed. Tell ya what, why not click that link in my sig and we can have at it over at NRNL!

Na no need man. I agree with you on the whole discloser thing on steam. They should have said something. However I just looked at their "system specs" and they are not even up to date. Strange.

[streetfighter 2]

http://steamdrm.flibitijibibo.com/the-big-drm-list/
(via this thread)

It appears Steam is upset about the bad press from 3rd party DRM so they've closed down all the old DRM list threads. Fortunately someone is hosting a list on an external server now.

Crysis 2 DRM summary from steamdrm.flibitijibibo.com

Account Based DRM:
-Crysis 2; Online play requires a MyCrysis account
Solidshield is Tages’ new DRM technology. It is presumed that this is their replacement for TAGES:
-Crysis 2; 5 machine limit

[2DividedbyZero]

do you know if the retail version has any limitation? I ask because I installed the game on Friday, authorised it yet when I played it again on Saturday the game asked me to authorise again - and again today, so had it 3 days and had to authorise 3 times, Fri Sat and Sun.

[TheMailMan78]

I am willing to bet Steam covered their ass in the EULA. on third part DRM. You might want to look into that before you waste your time.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by TheMailMan78

I am willing to bet Steam covered their ass in the EULA. on third part DRM. You might want to look into that before you waste your time.

hmmm... possibly. I've already submitted my ticket hours ago though, so I'm gonna see what happens. Also, I don't think this is something that they can waive away with Ts & Cs, but don't quote me, lol.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by Steam EULA

A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

qubit, you must uninstall Steam. The End User Licsense Agreement you ticked the box for says it must be so. They even print in in CAPS to let you know they are yelling it to you.

[scaminatrix]

no way qubit, to follow legal procedure you must cease all use of steam

[qubit]

Originally Posted by erocker

qubit, you must uninstall Steam. The End User Licsense Agreement you ticked the box for says it must be so. They even print in in CAPS to let you know they are yelling it to you.

Even if it's something significant that they omitted to do? This little clause gives them carte blanche to do whatever the hell they like, even illegal stuff. And this is against UK law, as well as the DRM omission. As I'm paying in pounds and am based in the UK, I do believe that UK law applies. Again, don't quote me on this!

I'll bet that even though the law is on my said, the buggers will make me fight to get my money back, but we'll just have to wait and see.

EDIT: erocker, scammy: by forcing me to uninstall Steam, I would lose access to hundreds of pounds worth of games I have on the account, that they won't refund. Nah, how can that be right? Sounds like an extortion racket, doesn't it?

[streetfighter 2]

Originally Posted by erocker

qubit, you must uninstall Steam. The End User Licsense Agreement you ticked the box for says it must be so. They even print in in CAPS to let you know they are yelling it to you.

Actually, this'd be more of a consumer protection issue that could [potentially] void the license if it became litigious (in the USA).

Furthermore with competition on the rise for Steam it would be an incredibly poor decision on their behalf to neglect existing customers (RE: doctrine of keeping a customer). Also I have a hard time seeing how hiding the inclusion of DRM hinders pirates and benefits customers; it appears to be the exact opposite.

[Frick]

When I was at Microsoft support people sometimes called and complained about stuff thats in the EULA. My constant response was: "Did you read it before agreeing?"

So did you read it before agreeing? You didn't, so you really have yourself to blame and do not deserve a refund.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by streetfighter 2

Actually, this'd be more of a consumer protection issue that could [potentially] void the license if it became litigious (in the USA).

Furthermore with competition on the rise for Steam it would be an incredibly poor decision on their behalf to neglect existing customers (RE: doctrine of keeping a customer). Also I have a hard time seeing how hiding the inclusion of DRM hinders pirates and benefits customers; it appears to be the exact opposite.

No. No Steam for YOU!


It's a joke.

[TheMailMan78]

Originally Posted by qubit

Sure, it is 5 machines, I've already stated that.

If you think that's fair, then good for you and I honestly don't have a problem with it. I don't think any DRM is fair however, as you know.

This isn't the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of DRM though, just the fact that the DRM is not disclosed. Tell ya what, why not click that link in my sig and we can have at it over at NRNL!

Isn't that SabreWulf forum? The one where he emo'd out to when we called him a pedophile? Ill pass.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by Frick

When I was at Microsoft support people sometimes called and complained about stuff thats in the EULA. My constant response was: "Did you read it before agreeing?"

So did you read it before agreeing? You didn't, so you really have yourself to blame and do not deserve a refund.

Actually, I did, back in 2004

There's such a thing as unfair contract terms, which this appears to be. Also, contract terms cannot breach the law, such as the UK Sale of Goods Act and the Distance Selling Regulations which apply to this sale.

[ctrain]

Originally Posted by qubit

Look, 3rd party DRM not disclosed on store page: http://store.steampowered.com/app/99830/

Doesn't say, does it?

Yet it has a 5 machine activation limit. So f* epic fail of Steam.

not Steam's fault.

also afaik the 5 machine limit magically replenishes once a month.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by ctrain

not Steam's fault.

also afaik the 5 machine limit magically replenishes once a month.

It is their fault for not disclosing it, as they're the seller.

Well, that reset is good to know should I get stuck with it.

[ctrain]

steam isn't the publisher, EA is.

edit: EA not fucking activison, durr

you don't blame ebay because you didn't get what was listed.

[qubit]

But they're the seller. In UK law, the seller is responsible. So, even if EA didn't tell Steam and Steam didn't know (bloody unlikely) then Steam are still responsible.

[Mr McC]

Irrespective of whether or not the DRM is fair, the consumer should be informed of any third-party DRM prior to purchase, whereby Valve probably have infringed both the law and their customers' trust.

[qubit]

Originally Posted by Mr McC

Irrespective of whether or not the DRM is fair, the consumer should be informed of any third-party DRM prior to purchase, whereby Valve probably have infringed both the law and their customers' trust.

Exactly!