How to avoid screen stuttering ???

[jonathan1107]

Hey guys, I noticed I often get screen stuttering when V-Sync is on in my PC games...

I know that this kind of stuff can be affected by drivers... but it seems like a very recurrent phenomenon with V-Sync for all PC users...

I read somewhere with V-Sync off "you'll get excessive screen tearing" and with V-Sync on "you'll get a little bit of screen stuttering"...

I noticed this tends to happen when I move my character (for instance in witcher 2 or COD MW2) and look around @ the same time.

Is there any way to get rid of that screen stuttering? Must I tweak stuff like Triple buffering or use D3D Overrider...???

[Widjaja]

I wonder if it is crossfire related in your case : /

Have you tried the games with a single card?

My Brother has two GTX480s in SLi and gets worse performance in FSX than he does with one card.

Also there are some games which are notorious for stuttering regardless of what machine you are running.
Fortunately I have not seen this often with the current games I play.

[erocker]

Most likely something is unstable such as RAM.

[jonathan1107]

What do you mean by unstable? And by Ram, I guess you are referring to RAM sticks right?

Also, I noticed the screen stuttering started to show up after I installed the latest 11.5 CAP5.
This is all in Witcher btw...

And I'm not the only one with bugs since the 11.5 CAP5... Enemy health bars and Target lock disappears every now and then in the witcher 2... in addition to the famous stuttering...

[FierceRed]

Originally Posted by jonathan1107

Also, I noticed the screen stuttering started to show up after I installed the latest 11.5 CAP5.

This is all in Witcher btw...

And I'm not the only one with bugs since the 11.5 CAP5... Enemy health bars and Target lock disappears every now and then in the witcher 2... in addition to the famous stuttering...

True. I thought CAP5 fixed the Witcher 2 as well. First thing I thought when I saw it stuttering with CAP5 was that in order to fix the light source problem, they'd reversed whatever performance gains they'd squeezed out of it. I'm taking a wait and see approach to what they come out with this summer, new GPU wise, but if these weird ass driver issues keep happening, I might just switch to the Green Team and see what its like on the other side of the fence.

I think its about time considering I've been with ATI all my PC gaming career, since the 9500 Pro, and it'll be interesting to see what credence the "Way It Was Meant To Be Played" and "But nVidia has driver problems too!" phrases have in fact rather than fiction.

[erocker]

Maybe it's the 11.5's. I'm using 11.5b's and CAP 5 and have no issues with Witcher 2.

[Mussels]

Originally Posted by erocker

Maybe it's the 11.5's. I'm using 11.5b's and CAP 5 and have no issues with Witcher 2.

everything you say, i read in the doctors voice O.o

[BazookaJoe]

OK - I may be shooting blanks here - but has anyone asked - PERHAPS YER VIDEO CARD CANT HACK IT?

See Generally speaking a Vsync lock will cap yer FPS at ~60 - but if, depending on yer scene, the frame rate drops below 60, say as a grenade goes off and all the smoke alpha blending is just too much for a second or two - you will see what appears to be a very jarring shudder in the frames.

ESPECIALLY this can be over exaggerated by whatever motion compensation estimation your monitor may use...

Easy way to test this theory - is to play at a MUCH LOWER RESOLUTION for a little bit - yes the image will stretch and look crappy- but ignore that for a bit and just watch for SHUDDERING - if you don't get any at 800X600, but you do at full res - the problem is as simple as your video can't handle it.

You see - unlocked, the frame rate fluctuates constantly - but locked it sits at a nearly perfect 60 for long periods of time, and your brain gets comfortable with that - and if it DOES ever falter - your brain is far more startled by the change than it normally would have been if it had been fluctuating all along, making you experience what seem like very jarring frame spikes.

It's just a theory...

Second theory - If you are using 2X GPU's... well that's notorious for frame shudder, has always been and will always be - almost everyone that I personally know who has ever had a 2X discrete GPU setup has eventually scrapped it because of this - its virtually IMPOSSIBLE to properly synchronize the frames & data between the two neither AMD nor nVidia has ever gotten this right - the interlink bus between the two cards is 100X's of times less efficient than the on-board bus between the GPU and its own On-board ram, and keeping that whole circus synchronized is a nightmare, one will ALWAYS complete it's part of a split operation before the other and this almost ALWAYS results in one part stopping to wait for the other - yes your overall max frame rates are far higher - but almost ALWAYS more inconsistent. I've never personally had a 2X GPU setup - but I have seen this on many other systems :\

[Law-II]

Originally Posted by BazookaJoe

OK - I may be shooting blanks here - but has anyone asked - PERHAPS YER VIDEO CARD CANT HACK IT?


It's just a theory...

Second theory - If you are using 2X GPU's... well that's notorious for frame shudder, has always been and will always be - almost everyone that I personally know who has ever had a 2X discrete GPU setup has eventually scrapped it because of this - its virtually IMPOSSIBLE to properly synchronize the frames & data between the two neither AMD nor nVidia has ever gotten this right - the interlink bus between the two cards is 100X's of times less efficient than the on-board bus between the GPU and its own On-board ram, and keeping that whole circus synchronized is a nightmare, one will ALWAYS complete it's part of a split operation before the other and this almost ALWAYS results in one part stopping to wait for the other - yes your overall max frame rates are far higher - but almost ALWAYS more inconsistent. I've never personally had a 2X GPU setup - but I have seen this on many other systems :\

Hi

I agree with your first hypothesis

however quote "I've never personally had a 2X GPU setup" if you have not had crossfire or SLi setup; then you should not comment based on your friends past experiences.

erocker hit the nail on the head when he mentions memery "RAM" the OC is to high with no advantage over 1600Mhz or 1866Mhz max from those modules. I would also mention that today 15/6 AMD will release catalyst 11.6 http://twitter.com/#!/@catalystcreator which should resolve some issues we have seen with Witcher-2 (fingers crossed W-2)

nb: D3D Overdrive is a great tool / util for eliminating shudder when running v-sync

shudder can also be coursed by bad uninstalls with parts of the old driver being left behind, Driver Sweeper dose not remove all traces from Windows 7 64-Bit and it is still worth removing ATI folders and sub folders from the registry by hand or by modifying Driver Sweeper uninstall, prior to installing new drivers.

atb

Law-II

[jonathan1107]

Ok, to bazooka joe, I have 2x6950 in crossfire... they can take pretty much anything...

It's not a question of my system's power because, I only get stuttering up to now on Witcher 2 and COD Modern warfare 2...

By the way, I'm using 11.5b and CAP5... I still didn't get an explanation from erocker as to how "my RAM my be unstable..."

I'm gonna try d3d overrider some more today see if I can fix it... It might be driver related... Altho I had done the installation properly... arrr... I'll just redo it...

Very frustrating... Oh and btw, the stuttering ain't just a multi-gpu issue... because I play dozens of games that support crossfire and have no stuttering whatsoever... it's just the withcer 2 and cod mw2...

[jonathan1107]

I should also mention that I didn't have any screen stuttering when I was using 11.5b with CAP4

[cadaveca]

When a game is running, the processor has certain graphics tasks to do, and sends the info to the VGA. The "buffer" where the CPU writes to, and the videocard reads from, is called the GART space, which is a section of memory reserved for this specific communication.

So, if your ram is even slightly unstable, it can cause issues, as the amount of data exchanged in the GART space is quite high.

Just to explain why erocker mentioned RAM. Stuttter and uneven framerates, as well as slight graphical glitches, can be caused by system ram, because the underlying graphics sub-system uses system ram.

[jonathan1107]

So which is better for PC gameplay in terms of RAM:

1600mhz or 2000mhz... I can OC my current 1600mhz stick ( 9 9 9 24) to 2000mhz 9 11 9 27...

Don't know if that would help... And when you say RAM can be unstable... What sort of thing can cause that... you mean the RAM could be broken???
Btw I have tested with crossfire disabled in the witcher 2 and I still get that micro stuttering...

[erocker]

Originally Posted by jonathan1107

1600mhz or 2000mhz... I can OC my current 1600mhz stick ( 9 9 9 24) to 2000mhz 9 11 9 27...

Is your memory stable? What have you done to test it to see if it is stable? MemTest is a good place to start.

I really don't think it's the drivers. The Witcher 2 is a very demanding game and truth be told no other game or application uses as much power as that game. How is the stability of the rest of your system and what have you done to test that?

[sneekypeet]

Originally Posted by erocker

MemTest

With boot-able media, not the windows version

[Law-II]

Originally Posted by jonathan1107

I should also mention that I didn't have any screen stuttering when I was using 11.5b with CAP4

Hi

If the above is true, I am not sure why you posted here. We are after all trying to assist you.

I would point out that you have 2x 6950's these are extreamly cost effective, but are far from being a perfect solution for games; I note from your system spec's that you have unlocked the shaders on both of your cards; Have you ever considered that AMD locked them for a purpose and that may be they are not perfect.

nb: you may wish to set your catalyst driver at Quality for Mipmap Detail Levels I have found this helps a lot of games in general

atb

Law-II

[xBruce88x]

^what he said

also, i wouldn't overclock your memory until you know that its not unstable as overclocking would just make it worse.

you could try setting the ram back to default clocks and set the gpu's back to default.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by jonathan1107

I should also mention that I didn't have any screen stuttering when I was using 11.5b with CAP4

Did you uninstall the pervious CAP before installing the new one? Also, did you restart your computer after installing the latest CAP?

[cadaveca]

Originally Posted by erocker

Did you uninstall the pervious CAP before installing the new one?

I never knew that was a requirement with the app profiles..I got like every single release installed on the gaming rig, and seem to have very few issues, too.

[erocker]

Originally Posted by cadaveca

I never knew that was a requirement with the app profiles..I got like every single release installed on the gaming rig, and seem to have very few issues, too.

It is written (somewhere on AMD's not so user friendly website) that the previous CAP should be uninstalled. Then again, I've never really listened to AMD... I use whatever works.

[jonathan1107]

Originally Posted by Law-II

Hi

If the above is true, I am not sure why you posted here. We are after all trying to assist you.

I would point out that you have 2x 6950's these are extreamly cost effective, but are far from being a perfect solution for games; I note from your system spec's that you have unlocked the shaders on both of your cards; Have you ever considered that AMD locked them for a purpose and that may be they are not perfect.

nb: you may wish to set your catalyst driver at Quality for Mipmap Detail Levels I have found this helps a lot of games in general

atb

Law-II

I've never heard about 6950s having trouble because the shaders were unlocked... In any case, I keep em very cool, there shouldn't be any problems with the GPUs...

As I mentionned earlier, this weird stuttering appeared when I installed the new cap5 profiles... before this, I had 11.5b CAP4...

As for my RAM, how do you detect memory instabillity... Whenever I torture test my PC with prime 95 (and select the torture test that stresses the RAM a lot) I don't see any weird behavior popping up...

From what I've read on the internet though, micro-stuttering seems to be a common phenomenon amongts SLI and Crossfire users... also, I tend to get that stuttering when I'm around objects with lots of lines... like say when I move around close to a wall in the Witcher 2... these walls have a lot of lines and I'm guessing the FPS would jump up to 140 if it wasn't for V-Sync...

By the way, the Witcher 2 really doesn't tax my system even with only 1 radeon 6950 enabled... I get around 60 FPS and sometimes drop to 50 FPS with 1 card and I have a very solid 60FPS when I use both my cards...

I have everything maxed out except for ubersampling which isn't turned on... As for RAM, I remember testing it in the past with the Windows built-in test, and I remember my it wouldn't finish the test... I think the PC either restarted or just crashed...

I still find it hard to think that my RAM is having any sort of issues... Because I don't get any crashes or weird signs ever... Not when transcoding... not when copying files and not when multi-tasking with 9 different programs opened...

[jonathan1107]

I just noticed 11.6 got released... I guess I'll give it a shot

Oh and 1 more detail, I remember that my RAM sticks are rated @ 1600mhz 9 9 9 24...
But when I first installed them in my new system, my MOBO automatically detects them as 1333mhz sticks... even tho they're supposed to be 1600mhz...
I had to manually set them up to 1600mhz to get the rated speed...

I'll try bringing them back to 1333mhz to see what happens

[Law-II]

Originally Posted by jonathan1107

I've never heard about 6950s having trouble because the shaders were unlocked... In any case, I keep em very cool, there shouldn't be any problems with the GPUs...

As I mentionned earlier, this weird stuttering appeared when I installed the new cap5 profiles... before this, I had 11.5b CAP4...

As for my RAM, how do you detect memory instabillity... Whenever I torture test my PC with prime 95 (and select the torture test that stresses the RAM a lot) I don't see any weird behavior popping up...

From what I've read on the internet though, micro-stuttering seems to be a common phenomenon amongts SLI and Crossfire users... also, I tend to get that stuttering when I'm around objects with lots of lines... like say when I move around close to a wall in the Witcher 2... these walls have a lot of lines and I'm guessing the FPS would jump up to 140 if it wasn't for V-Sync...

By the way, the Witcher 2 really doesn't tax my system even with only 1 radeon 6950 enabled... I get around 60 FPS and sometimes drop to 50 FPS with 1 card and I have a very solid 60FPS when I use both my cards...

I have everything maxed out except for ubersampling which isn't turned on... As for RAM, I remember testing it in the past with the Windows built-in test, and I remember my it wouldn't finish the test... I think the PC either restarted or just crashed...

I still find it hard to think that my RAM is having any sort of issues... Because I don't get any crashes or weird signs ever... Not when transcoding... not when copying files and not when multi-tasking with 9 different programs opened...

Hi

I have run out of suggestions, your cards should eat my HD5970 for breakfast. The MW_2 stutter is scaling based and has been documented that MW_2 dose not scale well in crossfire. Witcher_2 may be the same; who knows. Quote; "From what I've read on the internet though, micro-stuttering seems to be a common phenomenon amongts SLI and Crossfire" alot of issues are related to a 59Mhz bug in windows 7 64-Bit where one VPU in the system see's 60Mhz due to windows aero being active and the other VPU dose not. when starting a game windows can set the second VPU at 59Mhz and can course stutter, but this would be in all games

-Please try; put your system back to default- CPU / VPU's & Mem but let us know if you still get this stutter in Witcher with everything at default
If the stutter has gone, try overclocking your CPU and then play some more, then your CPU and VPU's and do the same if you are still stutter free at that point bring your Mem up in stages from Default 1600Mhz bit by bit and play Witcher at each stage to see if the stutter comes back.

atb

Law-II

[OneMoar]

I ran the wither 2 with no major issues on high settings 30-60fps @ 1280x1024
also not sure what erocker ment by "stability" has no bearing on performance or micro stuttering(at least not in my book) but you can try forcing triple buffering to on and running with crossfire off.
else it might be a IRQ conflicting with something in a weird way I had this happen on cod4 and my ps2 keyboard ( I ended up disabling the COM and lp ports ) and manually setting a clean irq for my sound card to solve the conflict( very very rare for this to be the cause of such issues) took me 2 weeks to track it down

[erocker]

Originally Posted by OneMoar

also not sure what erocker ment by "stability" has no bearing on performance or micro stuttering

I have no idea how you think I thought I said that.